SI Staff PaulC Posted February 17, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 17, 2008 Surely you have to do more than just "add up" the attributes? Ronaldo's power, pace and two footedness gives him a hell of a head start on Elano, which shows when you play the game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancreblue Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Just a note on Ronaldo's free kicks. They are spectacular but he actually scores fewer than an average free kick taker! My information comes from the London Times 'finktank'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 What this really comes down to is that players should have the same stats in-game as in the editor. What's the point of researching, if the game constantly overrules the researcher. This problem has gone better with 8.0.2, but seems to me, that while some players (e.g. Ronaldo) is now bumped down, we suddenly have bigger gaps between the good players - some are bumped down, while some are still bumped up. Lastly for those of you, who say that these negative bumps are good in case of the game being more realistic (think Rooney scoring a lot of goals before) i couldn't disagree more. Rooney's stats should reflect exactly how good he is. If he then scores too many goals, the db is not the problem, the game engine is. Then the engine should be altered to reflect reallife football. If Rooney is bumped down, yes he scores fewer goals, but people like him, that scored too many goals, are still unaffected - and now Rooney can't compete in-game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 People like Breno now are Championship quality players and I have been compelled to selling him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal postie Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Roo: Lastly for those of you, who say that these negative bumps are good in case of the game being more realistic (think Rooney scoring a lot of goals before) i couldn't disagree more. Rooney's stats should reflect exactly how good he is. If he then scores too many goals, the db is not the problem, the game engine is. Then the engine should be altered to reflect reallife football. If Rooney is bumped down, yes he scores fewer goals, but people like him, that scored too many goals, are still unaffected - and now Rooney can't compete in-game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> i agree with the sentiment that it's the game engine rather than the db that's the problem if rooney scores too many goals. but i dont agree that rooney can't compete in game. he scores loads in mine and has just scored a hattrick against me what may also be the case is that SI have made players stats slightly higher than they should be because the match engine wasn't as specific enough. now they've updated the match engine they find that the stats dont have to be so high and so they've adjusted them accordingly. we on the other hand are so used to the stats being as they were suddenly get confused. although i agree and say elano is not as good as ronaldo and there may be other database errors, i dont believe that rooney cannot compete and that elano is much better than ronaldo within the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 17, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then the engine should be altered to reflect reallife football </div></BLOCKQUOTE> In an ideal world, where there are more than 7 days in a week, and a football season lasts a decade then that would hit the nail on the head. Meanwhile in the real world its a little bit of give and take between match engine and database - and with each iteration of the game we try to make progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 cheers paul exactly what I wanted to say Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal postie Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 there's too many people winking at each other in here. that paulc can't control his winking. every time he posts he has at least one wink if not two think i'm going to leave now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefeu Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have the same problem. SI could be release a fix for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicente14 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I think the match engine is fine (aside from the having 20,000 shots on goal and the keeper getting MotM, is that fixed yet? I have not played more than a few months yet). anyway, my point: I agree that too many goals are scored etc. I bet if you ran the game for 20 seasons on holiday mode and checked through the stats the goals total numbers will be way too high, like it's always been that with a quality striker they will always bag about 30 goals a season when usually that is relatively rare. I don't have time to go much further, my food will be ready soon, but in summary, retrain the researchers, they're the problem. There is too many super highly rated players, yeah they're good but I feel ratings 17+ should be quite rare, so that like 20 is reserved for legendary types, your Maradona's, Pele's Di Stefano's, Best's etc. Get them to just wind it down a bit. Aguero for example can obliterate any league right off the bat and with training it gets worse but in the scope of the game his stats are around right. If you get what I mean. The lack of 17+ stats can be compensated by having more 1-3 ratings as they are about as rare as 17+ is common. I get the feeling if I were to put myself in the game I'd be knocking around 8 or 9 for most stats, with some at 10+, which isn't right to me, I should be barely out the 5's at best. So leave the match engine alone in summary. The real "attributes problem" is with the researchers and not the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 The match engine, generally, is fine. I think it should be left as it is because no match engine will ever be produced where everyone will be satisfied by it - there will always be a batch of people who wish it to be adjusted because they feel something is wrong. I just dont really understand why the random element attribute adjustment effect was taken away - I would prefer to have it in, although I can see what people are saying when they say it is the researcher's job to decide on the attributes - and not the game, meaning that if the stats went up by one or two in game from the game editor then it would tone down the realism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 17, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: I just dont really understand why the random element attribute adjustment effect was taken away - I would prefer to have it in, although I can see what people are saying when they say it is the researcher's job to decide on the attributes - and not the game, meaning that if the stats went up by one or two in game from the game editor then it would tone down the realism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What is this "random element" you refer to? The change from 8.0.1 to 8.0.2 in terms of player attribute vs CA isnt that dramatic, and according to my tests, in terms of Elano and Ronaldo the differences between 8.0.1 and 8.0.2 are pretty subtle...... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Well from what I've read from some other threads, in 8.0.1, the stats in the game editor would go up by one or two in the game itself, i.e. say Ronaldo had 15 for marking in the editor, he would have 16 or 17, or perhaps 13 or 14 once you had started a new game. If what I read was correct, and it seems as though it was because it was confirmed by someone from SI, if my memory serves me correctly, this feature has been removed from the game - not just from a database but from the whole game itself so any game you start, with whatever database, the stats will be the same in game as they are on the editor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal71 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: I just dont really understand why the random element attribute adjustment effect was taken away - I would prefer to have it in, although I can see what people are saying when they say it is the researcher's job to decide on the attributes - and not the game, meaning that if the stats went up by one or two in game from the game editor then it would tone down the realism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What is this "random element" you refer to? The change from 8.0.1 to 8.0.2 in terms of player attribute vs CA isnt that dramatic, and according to my tests, in terms of Elano and Ronaldo the differences between 8.0.1 and 8.0.2 are pretty subtle...... Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul, i think what the users are moaning about and quite rightly is that there seems to be something wrong with the code in terms of increasing some players attributes by sometimes 3 pts and decreasings by the same amount. A couple of examples are in 8.0.1 Silva and now in 8.0.2 Elano. An example of a player decreasing, Hleb in my case is a an unfortunate example. Their stats in game do NOT reflect the db attributes. We have discussed this in Sires, and its certainly code that is the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thank you to the Arsenal researcher for clearing this up at least a little bit - unfortunately I do not know your name. So this means that while Ronaldo has a first touch of 17 in the game, it is higher in the editor? I have failed to check this so that's a mistake on my part but I'll check that now. So basically, the reason for Elano and Ronaldo being so is due to the code rather than the researchers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicente14 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Silva is +2 So for example his dribbling is 17 in the DB but 19 in game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 So then in my save game from 8.0.1 which I have continued, how come all of my players have had their stats fall by at least 1, but there are many players in the game that have been kept safe from this epidemic? For example Adebayor, Messi, Rooney... they have all kept their stats whereas my players and some AI players like Ronaldo have fallen foul of this condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohad Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: For example someone like Ronaldo who is arguably the world's best player right now is being portrayed as being inferior to Elano - realistic? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Ronaldo's CA is around 190~, while Elano's is around 170. Current Abillity > Stats, as In the real world. Some players are extremely skilled, but are worse then others, who understands the game better, and are mentaly stronger. f.e, take Inzaghi. he's ****. He has no technique, strength, speed or passing, he misses alot, gets caught in offside 30 times a game, and yet he's one of the world's most skilled strikers. on the other hand, take Jo. he has undoubtly higher technique, he's a teamworker, strong and fast, and has great finishing. and yet, I'd take Inzaghi over him, as almost every other manager in the world would, because that's where game understanding and mentality comes. Skill ain't everything, and in FM it shows in CA. That's why Ronaldo is way better then Elano with worse stats, and Rooney is way better then 99% of the strikers with worse stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 17, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 17, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arsenal71: Paul, i think what the users are moaning about and quite rightly is that there seems to be something wrong with the code in terms of increasing some players attributes by sometimes 3 pts and decreasings by the same amount. A couple of examples are in 8.0.1 Silva and now in 8.0.2 Elano. An example of a player decreasing, Hleb in my case is a an unfortunate example. Their stats in game do NOT reflect the db attributes. We have discussed this in Sires, and its certainly code that is the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> The researcher side of this is getting looked into. I know you are supposed to see a preview of what the game is going to do in your editor and it looks like this maybe isnt matching up with the game for certain players..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefeu Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 SI claim a fix.will be perfect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK2003 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm not too far into the 1st season on mine but just a quick point on Elano and Ronaldo: Ronaldo has 7 goals from 13 appearences (no assists) with an ave rating of 7.31 Elano has 5 goals from 14 appearences (3 assits) with an ave rating of 7.14 So they are fairly accurate for me. Ronaldo is out-performing and out-scoring. I was surprised to notice Ronaldo hasn't got any assists but then again I believe in real life this season he only has 2 or 3. Elano's passing has been much better but Ronaldo has been named man of the match 3 times (Elano just once) and he has been fouled 38 times already this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vicente14: I think the match engine is fine (aside from the having 20,000 shots on goal and the keeper getting MotM, is that fixed yet? I have not played more than a few months yet). anyway, my point: I agree that too many goals are scored etc. I bet if you ran the game for 20 seasons on holiday mode and checked through the stats the goals total numbers will be way too high, like it's always been that with a quality striker they will always bag about 30 goals a season when usually that is relatively rare. I don't have time to go much further, my food will be ready soon, but in summary, retrain the researchers, they're the problem. There is too many super highly rated players, yeah they're good but I feel ratings 17+ should be quite rare, so that like 20 is reserved for legendary types, your Maradona's, Pele's Di Stefano's, Best's etc. Get them to just wind it down a bit. Aguero for example can obliterate any league right off the bat and with training it gets worse but in the scope of the game his stats are around right. If you get what I mean. The lack of 17+ stats can be compensated by having more 1-3 ratings as they are about as rare as 17+ is common. I get the feeling if I were to put myself in the game I'd be knocking around 8 or 9 for most stats, with some at 10+, which isn't right to me, I should be barely out the 5's at best. So leave the match engine alone in summary. The real "attributes problem" is with the researchers and not the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> exactly researhers have double standards. any player with any atribute more then 18 should be an exellant player. yestrday I was comparing my gamst pedersen and bentley (highests stats are natural fitness and corners, both 16) with some other wingers. they are crap and useless in terms of the databese made players. there are hundreds of young argentinian, brazilian and spanish nobody's with all important stats over 16. I know those country's are more technicaly gifted then norvegians. but it kills every enjoyment from me. like you said 18+ stats should be reserved for top class players. now we have many of silva's which are better then maradona and zidane together. and on the other hand player's like cristiano that look ridicoulous even when you set them to 190 CA. why can't we have player stats same as in editor???? we could at least make our own database then! all becouse of CA/PA system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arsenal71: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: I just dont really understand why the random element attribute adjustment effect was taken away - I would prefer to have it in, although I can see what people are saying when they say it is the researcher's job to decide on the attributes - and not the game, meaning that if the stats went up by one or two in game from the game editor then it would tone down the realism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What is this "random element" you refer to? The change from 8.0.1 to 8.0.2 in terms of player attribute vs CA isnt that dramatic, and according to my tests, in terms of Elano and Ronaldo the differences between 8.0.1 and 8.0.2 are pretty subtle...... Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul, i think what the users are moaning about and quite rightly is that there seems to be something wrong with the code in terms of increasing some players attributes by sometimes 3 pts and decreasings by the same amount. A couple of examples are in 8.0.1 Silva and now in 8.0.2 Elano. An example of a player decreasing, Hleb in my case is a an unfortunate example. Their stats in game do NOT reflect the db attributes. We have discussed this in Sires, and its certainly code that is the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> there are plenty of silva's and hleb's.... when game changes stats in +/- 2 manner it turns good player into superb/crap one. and this isn't smth new on 802. it was allways present in FM. one of my major compains on this game. I realy think such game shouldn't be based on CA/PA system, but on realistical stats, made by realistical researchers. I'm realy tired of making my own database just that every second striker doesn't score 45 goals in a season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I'm sure that if SI decide to knock down player stats a little, there wouldn't be so many match engine problems like too many shots...there will be more mistakes, less chances created, more realistc scorelines, rooney wouldn't score goal per match SI did realise that and I think decrease of super human stats is obvious on 802. but now we have silva/cristiano problem. (match engine stats changing; +/-2) these are example from my database, to see what I'm talking about. but I think the decrease of stats should go even more. SI's henry http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4206/henryfe0.jpg "realistic henry" http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9587/myhenryrp6.jpg silva http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6027/silvais0.jpg my silva http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3214/silvake2.jpg my aguero http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2714/myagerodm0.png bentley http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5060/bentleyok5.jpg look at bentley for example. he's very good premierleague winger IRE, england side's candidate, good player. yet he's got only 1 stat over 15. that's realistic IMO. if player's got 1 stat more then 18, he should allready be an exellant player. combiantion of stats; creativity, off the ball, flair, anticipation, composure, dribbling, finishing, first touch, crossing, long shots, passing, technique- all 16+ should be limited to 1 or 2 players, if. maradona, zidane. silva? not yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ched Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: But then you have players like Elano, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Messi and Silva? Is that realistic? To have all of those overrated and players like Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo grossly underrated? I agree that Rooney scored an awful lot before this patch but his stats reflected what I believe he has in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you watched ibra, kaka, messi etc every week you'd notice the gulf in class between them and the likes of tevez and rooney. IMO rooney still scores far too often (20+ league goals per season - IRL he has not scored more than 16) as he is still an average goal scorer, tevez is spot on in the new patch. The only player i don't agree with is lennon, who has taken a bit of a kicking, but then i don't assume to know more than the SI researchers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ched Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_AO: starting a new game on the patch, decreased stats for rooney, ronaldo, rio etc. are FINE. what is not fine is GODLY PLAYERS: elano, silva, daniel alves, chielini, terry etc. also, give vidal a FIXED LOW PA. otherwise he becomes a god! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> 1 - Terry's CA has been REDUCED from 8.0.1 so stop being daft. 2 - alves is one of the best defenders on the world. The amount of people who claim to know more than the SI researchers is astounding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ched Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: Worth noting that Ronaldo is also two-footed in the game, whereas Elano isnt. That makes a hell of a difference out on the field. Can anyone who has played more than half of season #1 with 8.0.2 in the PL post the stats ( apps, goals, rating ) of each player? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Having played against utd 4 times and city 5, elano has done nothing against me, ronaldo has scored 3 times..... seems spot on to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: Well from what I've read from some other threads, in 8.0.1, the stats in the game editor would go up by one or two in the game itself, i.e. say Ronaldo had 15 for marking in the editor, he would have 16 or 17, or perhaps 13 or 14 once you had started a new game. If what I read was correct, and it seems as though it was because it was confirmed by someone from SI, if my memory serves me correctly, this feature has been removed from the game - not just from a database but from the whole game itself so any game you start, with whatever database, the stats will be the same in game as they are on the editor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> they should be the same, but they're not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arsenal71: Paul, i think what the users are moaning about and quite rightly is that there seems to be something wrong with the code in terms of increasing some players attributes by sometimes 3 pts and decreasings by the same amount. A couple of examples are in 8.0.1 Silva and now in 8.0.2 Elano. An example of a player decreasing, Hleb in my case is a an unfortunate example. Their stats in game do NOT reflect the db attributes. We have discussed this in Sires, and its certainly code that is the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> The researcher side of this is getting looked into. I know you are supposed to see a preview of what the game is going to do in your editor and it looks like this maybe isnt matching up with the game for certain players..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> not for certain players, for many of them. it's the code when ME matches up CA and atributes. for example, if player has high CA and "low" atributes in editor, ME will give him + 1/2 even 3, for each key atribute. also the game decreases "all round" players like ronaldo or kaka and favours those who have some bad atributes, but good CA. like silva or aimar. but basicly it's all about how CA matches up with total sum of atributes. for example if you want to have silva's stats in game just the same as in editor, you'll have to decrease his CA a lot. and that's where researchers failed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJG123 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: But then you have players like Elano, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Messi and Silva? Is that realistic? To have all of those overrated and players like Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo grossly underrated? I agree that Rooney scored an awful lot before this patch but his stats reflected what I believe he has in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you watched ibra, kaka, messi etc every week you'd notice the gulf in class between them and the likes of tevez and rooney. IMO rooney still scores far too often (20+ league goals per season - IRL he has not scored more than 16) as he is still an average goal scorer, tevez is spot on in the new patch. The only player i don't agree with is lennon, who has taken a bit of a kicking, but then i don't assume to know more than the SI researchers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Just completed my first season with Norwich in 8.01, Rooney scored 13 goals. Pretty realistic I'd say. If he scores 26 in the league in my next season I won't complain, because Rooney could score 26 next season in real life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BJG123: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: But then you have players like Elano, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Messi and Silva? Is that realistic? To have all of those overrated and players like Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo grossly underrated? I agree that Rooney scored an awful lot before this patch but his stats reflected what I believe he has in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you watched ibra, kaka, messi etc every week you'd notice the gulf in class between them and the likes of tevez and rooney. IMO rooney still scores far too often (20+ league goals per season - IRL he has not scored more than 16) as he is still an average goal scorer, tevez is spot on in the new patch. The only player i don't agree with is lennon, who has taken a bit of a kicking, but then i don't assume to know more than the SI researchers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Just completed my first season with Norwich in 8.01, Rooney scored 13 goals. Pretty realistic I'd say. If he scores 26 in the league in my next season I won't complain, because Rooney could score 26 next season in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> which database do you use? he scored a goal per game on my 801 game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joop Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I'm in my third season with ManU (and yes I'm a fan), and I've installed both patches, but indeed, after installing the second one, all my players attributes have gone down. Ofcourse, if this happens to most of the players in the game it's o.k., but still, it isn't fun to watch, especially when my trainings were going so well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccircle Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Still on 801 Rooney has scored 10 goals in 1st season and 12 in 2nd season. Ronaldo 10g and 4assist in season 1 and 8g and 8 assists in season 2. Going to patch later on today so be interesting what happens with season 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefeu Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 the fix will be release?when?somebody can tell me?thanks for all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJG123 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Mitja - using the 8.01 updated database, on another save, from the original database, he scored 10 league goals in season one, 27 in season 2, and has 6 in 2 in the third. Considering that Rolondo Bianchi for my City team in the same game scored 27, 30 (in 30 games) and 10 (in 8 games), I'd say that was pretty fair. You can't downgrade Rooney because the match engine is cack unless you downgrade every striker in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xouman Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I agree that players shouln't had so great attributes, and now they are more realistic. cristiano ronaldo is still amazing comparing him to any other player. But not all his real attributes are 20, he just has lots of high attributes, but he's not perfect. there are quickest players, some better taking set pieces, heading, shooting... I agree that he is capable to do all these things in a great way, and surely he deserves 15 or more in any of them, but not a 20 at any. But how many players deserve +15 in all of them? few players in the world, and ronaldo is one of them. My couple of best strikers have turned into decent players in 8.0.2, while they were among best strikers in EPL. I have checked their CAs and PAs and both are around 150-155, so they are now what they were intended to be. Other players have changed in the same way, including my best defender, but not my best midfielder neither my GK. It seems that players who were performing really good had a bump in their attributes related with their CA, and now they have attributes according to their CA and not influeced by their performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJG123 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Kevin Phillips scored 30 goals in a season in the premiership, he was never a 190 CA player, probaby 150 at his peak. Lower CA players can still perform as well as those with a higher CA. Also, what's really annoyed me is stats dropping on a save game, it's ruining the game for me. I just spent 35 million on Aguero, download the patch, now he's my 3rd choice striker and a complete waste of 35 million. Similarly Ronaldo's dribbling's dropped to 18 when it was 20, despite me not starting a new game, and using an already edited database. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 18, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 18, 2008 I bet Aguero is still ace....there is a screenshot of him in 8.0.2 in either this or the other thread and he looks pretty darn good to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJG123 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: I bet Aguero is still ace....there is a screenshot of him in 8.0.2 in either this or the other thread and he looks pretty darn good to me! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> He is still pretty damn good, but he's not good enough to overtake Lauri Dalle Valle in my team! I only play witgh 1 striker, Bianchi, I was going to rotate him, Aguero and Van Der Vaart who is my AMC, where Aguero can play, but now he isn't good enough to challenge Bianchi or Van Der Vaart, so is a massive waste of 35 million quid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: I bet Aguero is still ace....there is a screenshot of him in 8.0.2 in either this or the other thread and he looks pretty darn good to me! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> with no direspect to you or BJG, but with such responses I feel you don't take any of more inteligent post seriously on this forums. who cares how aguero's looking if he's gonna score 30 goals anyway. this problem with how ME matches up in game atributes is as old as FM and nothing's been changed realy. now when you finally figured out that there is problem with players being over rated, to big difference between poor/avarage/good/world clas players and ME changing researchers stats, we get such responses...remeber there are people playing this game who are older then 14 years and that apriciate "reality" of FM series. we stick to your game and support you and want our game to improve further. I'm not asking you to reply to my posts, but at least what you could do is when someone is posting something constructive to acknowledge it somehow or say we're wrong or something... the problem is that you only respond when thread gets flamed and when you need to put out the fire. that's what miles does mostly. or even better you could do something to shut us up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJG123 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I was using Aguero as an example of where this issue is at its most annoying. If it's a feature SI have added, then fair enough, I think it's a stupid feature to add it but they obviously deem it neccessary. What it should not do however is affect save games, for a player's stats to fall so dramatically (in Aguero's case 22 of his stats have dropped by a point or more) after 3 seasons of playing is ridiculous and completely unrealistic. Cristiano Ronaldo does not just forget how to dribble over night. At least if you start a new game the attributes are lowered from the beggining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefeu Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 please. the fix will be release?when?somebody can tell me?thanks for all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 18, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 18, 2008 I realise it might be a bit frustrating when it happens in a saved game, but while patches are saved game comnpatible where possible we do make the old recommendation of starting a new game disclaimer..... But....Aguerro will still perform to his CA. I guess in spending 35m on him based on him performing above it you are entitled to feel a bit hard done by....... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 18, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fefeu: please. the fix will be release?when?somebody can tell me?thanks for all </div></BLOCKQUOTE> There isnt a bug to fix.....it is what it is to be honest. We are looking into the mini editor side, for those who help us with research and are seeing the other side of this issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fefeu: please. the fix will be release?when?somebody can tell me?thanks for all </div></BLOCKQUOTE> There isnt a bug to fix.....it is what it is to be honest. We are looking into the mini editor side, for those who help us with research and are seeing the other side of this issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> can you explain this a little bit further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 18, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 18, 2008 Which bit? "It is what it is" - means its not a bug, just the way the game works currently. "Mini Editor" - its something that only applies to researchers who are seeing the game change their player data to match CA in an unexpected way. Hope this helps Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I upgraded from 8.01 to 8.02 WWSM. The only change I noticed was in my recently purchased Asamoah Gyan. His finishing and dribbling dropped a single point to 18. So did his aggression, but his decisions rose. He became my first player to win the scoring title. All of my other players seemed to be unaffected and I went undefeated in the Premiership for the first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Can I ask why, in my savegame and in a new game, only some people are being affected and some are protected from the change in stats? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 18, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 18, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life: Can I ask why, in my savegame and in a new game, only some people are being affected and some are protected from the change in stats? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Sure, its because the adjustments we made to the CA-attribute algorithm dont really affect a lot of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeri4life Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Can I ask what exactly these changes were and why they are indeed then affecting only some players? Thanks, Mehdi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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