Any plans for backwards save-game compatibility?

I don't know if this is the correct forum to post this in, but I'll go ahead.

Are there any plans for backwards compatibility in save-games for future FM releases? What I mean is the ability to load say FM15 saved games in FM 16 when it is released.

I for one am definitely going to be getting FM 15 when it comes out, but the only reason I haven't pre-ordered it is because I want to squeeze out maybe another season out of my 14+ season game in FM 14. I will be making the switch because I love the new features (FINALLY MY MANAGER HAS ATTRIBUTES WOO!) and general improvement seen from year to year, but it hurts a lot to abandon my long careers.

Some peope, like my father, are way more attached to their save games though. My dad only buys FM every other year, because he wants to get as far as possible into a save game before switching. I'm assuming that he isn't the only one who does something like this. Wouldn't backwards compatibility be beneficial to all? I'm assuming SI would generate more revenue from increased sales from people like my father (though honestly I don't know how large this group might be) and would make customers who purchase every year, like myself, even more happy as we are allowed to continue our careers from the previous iteration of the game.

I wish my dad played FM

I don't think they'll ever be a backwards comaptitble FM game. Long-term saves already occassionally run into issues, and I can't imagine the amount of work that would be needed in order to make them compatitlbe with future versions of the game. Even if it were possible I can't imagine the save game being very stable.

The furthest I've been in an FM game was on FM2012, took me from 2011 to 2047 would be great to be able to keep going with the new features.

However I don't think it'll ever be more than a pipe dream

It is extremely difficult and almost impossible to add backwards compatibility like this, unfortunately. It's more due to what gets changed from one version to the next, which means support for older saves isn't possible.

Not quite the same question, but related to the issue the OP raises.

Is it possible / could it be possible to just save your team and maybe also your club details at any point in a game, and then import that data into a future version of FM?

So, for example, I'd "save" my current Sunderland team in FM14 and then use it in FM15.

If I understand the mechanics correctly, this would really just be saving a lump of data and importing it elsewhere. Does the data change? As far as I can see, the attributes haven't changed for quite a number of FM versions now. Of course, it might be more complicated than what I'm thinking, hence the question.

I'd love to have been able to save the great sides I built in FM11, FM10, FM08, FM06, and use these in a current version of the game, or maybe even pit them against each other.

Not quite the same question, but related to the issue the OP raises.

Is it possible / could it be possible to just save your team and maybe also your club details at any point in a game, and then import that data into a future version of FM?

So, for example, I'd "save" my current Sunderland team in FM14 and then use it in FM15.

If I understand the mechanics correctly, this would really just be saving a lump of data and importing it elsewhere. Does the data change? As far as I can see, the attributes haven't changed for quite a number of FM versions now. Of course, it might be more complicated than what I'm thinking, hence the question.

I'd love to have been able to save the great sides I built in FM11, FM10, FM08, FM06, and use these in a current version of the game, or maybe even pit them against each other.

It would be as complicated, Say you sign Aguero, On the new game man city lose their best player and don't get the money for him as he hasn't 'left' on that game. If they do get the money then you are having to do that for every transfer and that is where it becomes too much information

It would be as complicated, Say you sign Aguero, On the new game man city lose their best player and don't get the money for him as he hasn't 'left' on that game. If they do get the money then you are having to do that for every transfer and that is where it becomes too much information

If you were effectively "exporting" a team you'd built and then "importing" that team into another game in the future e.g. FM17, there's no reason the game has to see your player as "Sergio Aguero" as such, its just a lump of data. The original FM17 Sergio Aguero can continue to tootle along at Man City. There'll be two Sergio Agueros in the game but so what?

Besides, I think a lot of people would be likely to use a feature such as this for saving teams they'd built over time and brought through their youth systems, which would include many if not all newgens.

Mechanically this would just be "export from old DB" and then "import into the new DB" replacing all persons at an existing club no?

That part would be easy I'd think but moving club rep/seedings etc as well might be the impossible part?

Its how the data interacts with the newer version of the game that is the biggest problem. Take for example one small change this year, we no longer have a creativity attribute, we have a vision attribute, so right away you have a big conflict within how the game looks at the data for one player. You then have to take into account how the various modules work with each other within the game, and how these affect the data of a single player.

It's a database driven game - and each year the structure of the database changes. This makes it impossible to make this type of change.

However, if I'm in the year 2097 and would like to continue my game - I would like that option, starting in 2097, no original players from before.

I would like the option - but I know how difficult it would be to make happen.

However, if I'm in the year 2097 and would like to continue my game - I would like that option, starting in 2097, no original players from before.

I would like the option - but I know how difficult it would be to make happen.

You can just... holiday to 2097.

If you want to play in 2097 as your current team... read the above posts as to why its too much of a bother... for the FM franchise.

Maybe a competitor could arise to make a totally different game, that just sells "addons" and "database updates" to an FM-like-game-engine.

So people can actually play an "endless save", and just add new features.

Alto, I wont find it attractive personally.

Each new game feature is somewhat of a game changer, and I would always end up wondering how I would have done if i had that feature form the beginning.

Especially now, with the RPG-like addition of stats and licences...

I just said that - thanks for cutting what I said in half.

And I'm not going to set it to holiday to 2097 - I'd have no career history that I built up and I couldn't be bothered using the editor.

How did I cut what you said in half?

Seems you don't realize how difficult and counter productive it will be, for something that if "bothered" you could edit in yourself with relative ease...

Any kind of backward compatibility will either be lackluster or will tie the game forever to one stagnating version of itself.

I prefer progress, even it it means I need to "abandon" my long save.

And at the end of the day, you don't have to abandon your 2094 save.

It obviously was fine up until now... You will just choose to progress, or not.

To quote Captain America "THE POWER IS YOURS!".

Not quite the same question, but related to the issue the OP raises.

Is it possible / could it be possible to just save your team and maybe also your club details at any point in a game, and then import that data into a future version of FM?

So, for example, I'd "save" my current Sunderland team in FM14 and then use it in FM15.

If I understand the mechanics correctly, this would really just be saving a lump of data and importing it elsewhere. Does the data change? As far as I can see, the attributes haven't changed for quite a number of FM versions now. Of course, it might be more complicated than what I'm thinking, hence the question.

I'd love to have been able to save the great sides I built in FM11, FM10, FM08, FM06, and use these in a current version of the game, or maybe even pit them against each other.

In theory yes you can do this. However you would have to do all the leg work. Just go into the editor and move the players around. Simple as that really.

Erm - wouldn't that just be a matter of exporting the database and importing it in to the new version? Or am I missing something?

Or am I missing something?

Yes, quite a lot actually.

You cannot transfer savegames from one FM edition to another but I have used the same editor data for the last 3 editions of FM. It has worked fine up to now but in FM15 although my team and players are all there none of the players are in my team ! So it was a question of persuading them to sign,not always a done deal !!

Mechanically this would just be "export from old DB" and then "import into the new DB" replacing all persons at an existing club no?

That part would be easy I'd think but moving club rep/seedings etc as well might be the impossible part?

That's pretty much what I think as well. But changing the club rep. etc. would be less important and anyway if you wanted to change the club stuff that can quickly & easily be done via the editor by the game player themselves.

Its how the data interacts with the newer version of the game that is the biggest problem. Take for example one small change this year, we no longer have a creativity attribute, we have a vision attribute, so right away you have a big conflict within how the game looks at the data for one player. You then have to take into account how the various modules work with each other within the game, and how these affect the data of a single player.

For the example you cite, it seems as though "creativity" has just been re-named as "vision", to more accurately communicate what it does.

I'd see it as more significant if SI decided for footballing accuracy reasons to introduce a new attribute/get rid of a current one and so on, but until we cross that bridge its not an issue.

Back to creativity/vision - even if there was a significant change in the way this attribute affects the game, I'm not sure this would be a deal-breaker for what I'm suggesting. From my POV, even if there's a change, so what? If that means that for FM15, FM16 and so on, I can indulge in saving my greatest teams so that I can use them in FM19, FM20 and so on, then even if there's some changes to interpretation of data I'm not that fussed. As per my reply to Kriss I can always go into the editor & tweak if I need to. What is more important, and fun, is that I can make the great sides I have built live again and, maybe, even put them in a league against each other, pick one and play against them? Now THAT would be AWESOME!

No, would be almost impossible to do given the changes between versions I'm afraid.

Surely, at the very least the database could be used to create a custom database based on that save, from which you can play on from. I mean, plenty of games do it with far less directly comparable data (i.e. Paradox Plaza and it's Crusader Kings II to Europa Universalis IV converter). If custom databases can be used in game, surely a custom database could be created from saves from previous years (even if it's only made to be for the last years version). I'm not saying it would be a simple task, but surely not impossible.

Edit: To be honest, a 'Save File' ==> 'Custom Database' creator would be pretty awesome anyhow. I guess the biggest issue would be creating it in such a manner that it fills up all the empty roles around the World, but doesn't the game already do that when adding in new leagues? Anything new that's added could be added in a similar manner (that is, turning a FM'X' save into an FM 'X+1' save.

iEdit 2.0: Again though, even attribute changes could be mocked up, much like Paradox did with save game converters between CKII and EUIV. The provinces don't even close to match up, the games are about as different as Football Manager and FIFA Career Mode gameplay wise. Using a save as a basis for a database with missing information mocked up could be done, and allow saves to "start a fresh", new features and all in the new version could surely be done. It would be a huge amount of work, and bug testing nightmare, but surely possible.

Edit 3 & Knuckles: It would even make a damn decent marquee feature for a future Football Manager. That's one that would get me truly excited (along with things like dynamic continental reputation, youth potential across the world and league rules...), that could also move units as there are people who do skip every second Football Manager (I know some people still playing FM08 because they want to continue their centurion game).

First off, I'd like to thank everyone from SI for promptly letting me know that backwards compatibility is impossible </3 lol. But there have been some interesting ideas posted.

From my (very) limited understanding, as you go on playing FM, you are basically adding more layers and editing the starting database as you go along. As someone proposed, wouldn't it be possible in the future to export a save game as a database? Then, maybe the following version of the game could import that database in order for you to start a new game. Of course, it wouldn't be perfect. As has been pointed out, there are a lot of things that are added every version that wouldn't have values, but from my tinkering with the editor, if you set a number to 0 it just fills it in when you create a new game with a random number.

You wouldn't be able to continue with your player managers if you imported in this way. Instead, your player managers would now become AI? From what I know, player managers are given a starting CA of 100 with a potential of 200, and your attributes change based on how you perform over time.

This is all just speculation on my part. The dream for me is to be able to enjoy the features of the fresh, new version of Football Manager but be able to continue being immersed in the decades old game world of the previous version.

Someone suggested just editing your team into the new version of FM, but that's not what it's about in my opinion. The people who skip versions do so because they have become attached to the alternate history that has occurred in their version. Sure, you won the champions league in 2050 with Halifax with that one regen striker from Guyana and you could just edit those people into a new version of FM, but what about that time in 2032 when Recreativo Huelva won the Champions League after being promoted the previous season and finishing 2nd? Or how the 2030 World Cup Final was somehow between Iran and Jamaica, two teams that played an ultra defensive 4-5-1 formation and won all of their games 1-0 with goals from set pieces or own goals from the other teams?

That's the beauty of Football Manager. That's why people stay with their outdated games rather than buying the new version. The history that you create is what keeps you coming back for more and makes you skip versions.

Like the good people from SI have said, backwards compatibility for save games is impossible, but what about exporting save games as a database for the future version to use? Maybe it's the exact same thing. Pretty sure they must have thought of everything, but I hope that somehow they've never thought of this and it's extremely simple to do

Aren't there more important things to work on than backwards compatibility? :confused:

I know the games are miles apart in what they offer... but MLB The Show on the PS4 is going to have backward compatible saves, so from 14 we can carry our saves onto 15 for franchise mode/RTTS.

Im not suggesting that the mechanics are the same etc, but will be interesting to see how they do it, given that the 2 modes are due big upgrades and could carry potential changes as well...

Hopefully down the line there will be that option in FM.

The concept of exporting a database at any given time in a game intrigues me- it seems like it shouldn't be too tough. It's the importing into the new game that'll break bits of it, as it sometimes does with edited data. Also, I'm not sure how you'd resolve the start date issue- if you're exporting a game in 2050 as a custom DB, when you import it it'd still already have player and competition history to that date, even though the new game would start in 2014. That's where I'd envisage things getting messy, as well as the structural changes between versions, as mentioned.

I'd take it to the wishlist thread to be kicked around a bit more, but really not hold my breath for it to ever materialise.

The concept of exporting a database at any given time in a game intrigues me- it seems like it shouldn't be too tough. It's the importing into the new game that'll break bits of it, as it sometimes does with edited data. Also, I'm not sure how you'd resolve the start date issue- if you're exporting a game in 2050 as a custom DB, when you import it it'd still already have player and competition history to that date, even though the new game would start in 2014. That's where I'd envisage things getting messy, as well as the structural changes between versions, as mentioned.

I'd take it to the wishlist thread to be kicked around a bit more, but really not hold my breath for it to ever materialise.

The start date could be set to the date that the game is exported. There is surely no need for it to be any other date. At worst the season could be simulated to the end, and have a start date generated from there (in that new season). It ultimately doesn't matter if the start date is in 2014 or 2182, that's aesthetics.