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Starting off managing U18 (club)


Guest markyosullivan

Do you like the idea?  

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  1. 1. Do you like the idea?



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Guest markyosullivan

I think this would be a great addition to FM.

This does happen in the real world and a prime example would be Brendan Rodgers.

He started off as a player but was forced to retire while at Reading when he was 20. He was then appointed as their youth team manager in 1995. Rodgers moved to Chelsea in September 2004 to become youth team manager after being approached by José Mourinho, and was appointed manager of the reserve team in July 2006.

On 24th November 2008, Rodgers was appointed as manager of Watford in the Championship, his first top-level managerial position.

Rodgers chose to leave Watford and agreed to become manager of Reading, and was appointed on 5 June 2009.

Rodgers was appointed manager of Championship team Swansea City on 16 July 2010. This season he won promotion with them to the Premiership by winning the Play-Offs.

I would love for something like this to be introduced in FM. You can start off as a youth team manager first (which would obviously be easier to get appointed to if you didn't have a great reputation as a manager), then if you do well with the U18's you could be asked by the current club manager if you would like to become the new Reserve coach, then if you do well with the Reserve coach you could maybe be asked to become the caretaker manager (of a lower league team, doubt it would happen at a Premiership level club) if the manager of the club you're at gets sacked , or you could apply to managerial positions at lower league clubs.

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(moved from one of my replies)

This could possibly lead the way to having you, the U18, picking a coaching team for the youth team (or maybe the first team manager would decide this for you) and you would have a U18 physio and possibly one scout to scout the next team, or maybe you could be in charge for recommending youth players to the first team coach to sign.

Obviously this would open the way for more interaction between the U18, Reserve and First Team managers:

1. U18 manager could give feedback to the Reserve manager (and maybe First Team manager) on how well the current U18 side is doing.

2. The Reserve manager could ask the U18 manager to rest Player A, because he is interested in trying him out in the Reserve team to see if he's ready.

3. The First Team manager could ask the U18 manager or the Reserve manager to rest Player B, because he wants to play him in an upcoming game to see how well he can perform at the top level and to see if his ready to join the first team.

4. The First Team manager could ask the Reserve team manager to give Player C, some playing time because he is just getting back from an injury and the First Team manager wants him to get back to full match fitness before playing him for the first team again.

Another useful thing is that really good youth team players will probably add you to their 'Favoured Personnel' and as a result would be easier to sign them if you move to becoming the first team manager at a different team.

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I like this idea but before it can be implemented the roles of reserve team manager and youth team manager need to be included in the game. Right now we just pick them in team settings but it would be great to have a guy whose title is reserve team manager and another who has the title of youth team manager. And then it should be possible to let human managers do it. And it should be possible to be made caretaker manager of the first team if they fire their manager shortly before the end of the season for example :D

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No.

Let's assume I take over as U-18 coach at a Championship level club. Not unreasonable, and I try to bring together my kids to make a good side. Unfortunately, Championship squads tend to be a little thin throughout all levels, so my best players will forever be used in reserve team games, so they'll be too knackered to do well in the U-18s.

If the first team has an injury crisis, one or more of my brightest talents might be stolen away to sit on the bench in a meaningless first team game.

If I have a real bright talent come through, he might bypass the U-18s altogether and go straight into the first team.

What if the reserve team manager is doing a good job? Are we going to see successful reserve team managers ruthlessly sacked all over the shop? And if we then take over, our problems will be even worse. Most reserve sides at that level are hideously thin, so we'll be using the U-18s yet again. Anyone who starts doing well is in with a serious chance of going to the first XI while we're stuck with the out of form wasters. And how long would this process take? 3 seasons with each? 5 seasons?

I don't mean to seem harsh in this, but a lot of points are forever missed. Personally, I hate international youth team management because the best players inevitably go to the first XI, and I have no say in what kinds of talents we should be bringing in to the limited pool. For similar reasons, I wouldn't welcome U-18 or reserve team management.

I'm happy to clarify on any points or listen to arguments against me.

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No.

Let's assume I take over as U-18 coach at a Championship level club. Not unreasonable, and I try to bring together my kids to make a good side. Unfortunately, Championship squads tend to be a little thin throughout all levels, so my best players will forever be used in reserve team games, so they'll be too knackered to do well in the U-18s.

If the first team has an injury crisis, one or more of my brightest talents might be stolen away to sit on the bench in a meaningless first team game.

If I have a real bright talent come through, he might bypass the U-18s altogether and go straight into the first team.

What if the reserve team manager is doing a good job? Are we going to see successful reserve team managers ruthlessly sacked all over the shop? And if we then take over, our problems will be even worse. Most reserve sides at that level are hideously thin, so we'll be using the U-18s yet again. Anyone who starts doing well is in with a serious chance of going to the first XI while we're stuck with the out of form wasters. And how long would this process take? 3 seasons with each? 5 seasons?

I don't mean to seem harsh in this, but a lot of points are forever missed. Personally, I hate international youth team management because the best players inevitably go to the first XI, and I have no say in what kinds of talents we should be bringing in to the limited pool. For similar reasons, I wouldn't welcome U-18 or reserve team management.

I'm happy to clarify on any points or listen to arguments against me.

Have you heard of this thing called a challenge? Some people (myself included) would find this prospect fascinating. And it would be a different way of working yourself up through the managerial ranks.

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Have you heard of this thing called a challenge? Some people (myself included) would find this prospect fascinating. And it would be a different way of working yourself up through the managerial ranks.

Is this one of those threads where we're only allowed to comment if we agree with the idea?

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Have you heard of this thing called a challenge? Some people (myself included) would find this prospect fascinating. And it would be a different way of working yourself up through the managerial ranks.

I just think it's the kind of challenge that isn't in the best interests. For every person that enjoyed it, I think you'd have 10 people madly frustrated walking away from the game (or at the very least coming on here for a whine)

I also think it seems like a challenge that doesn't necessarily have an end. How often do you see the AI sack whoever is in charge of the reserves? It seems as though you could be doing the U-18s for 15 seasons before you get anywhere else.

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No.

Let's assume I take over as U-18 coach at a Championship level club. Not unreasonable, and I try to bring together my kids to make a good side. Unfortunately, Championship squads tend to be a little thin throughout all levels, so my best players will forever be used in reserve team games, so they'll be too knackered to do well in the U-18s.

If the first team has an injury crisis, one or more of my brightest talents might be stolen away to sit on the bench in a meaningless first team game.

If I have a real bright talent come through, he might bypass the U-18s altogether and go straight into the first team.

What if the reserve team manager is doing a good job? Are we going to see successful reserve team managers ruthlessly sacked all over the shop? And if we then take over, our problems will be even worse. Most reserve sides at that level are hideously thin, so we'll be using the U-18s yet again. Anyone who starts doing well is in with a serious chance of going to the first XI while we're stuck with the out of form wasters. And how long would this process take? 3 seasons with each? 5 seasons?

I don't mean to seem harsh in this, but a lot of points are forever missed. Personally, I hate international youth team management because the best players inevitably go to the first XI, and I have no say in what kinds of talents we should be bringing in to the limited pool. For similar reasons, I wouldn't welcome U-18 or reserve team management.

I'm happy to clarify on any points or listen to arguments against me.

These are good points, so for it to work the number of youth players in the game would have to drastically increase. Perhaps the inclusion of academies (where appropriate)?I like the idea because it will be a challenge, and it will be frustrating whenever your best players get moved on to the first team, but surely that is the point of a youth team manager? I will get a sense of achievement that I have helped this young player's development and got him into the first team.

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I just think it's the kind of challenge that isn't in the best interests. For every person that enjoyed it, I think you'd have 10 people madly frustrated walking away from the game (or at the very least coming on here for a whine)

I also think it seems like a challenge that doesn't necessarily have an end. How often do you see the AI sack whoever is in charge of the reserves? It seems as though you could be doing the U-18s for 15 seasons before you get anywhere else.

It should just be an option at the start of the game, you should also have the chance to just start as a manager if you so choose.

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These are good points, so for it to work the number of youth players in the game would have to drastically increase. Perhaps the inclusion of academies (where appropriate)?I like the idea because it will be a challenge, and it will be frustrating whenever your best players get moved on to the first team, but surely that is the point of a youth team manager? I will get a sense of achievement that I have helped this young player's development and got him into the first team.

Either the youth teams massively increase, or reserve sides become a little bit bigger to help ease the burden.

The trouble is, although top league sides do tend to have very good U-18s, the further down the ladder you go, the smaller the squads. I get the impression that the people who want this kind of challenge want to start in the third tier (ish) rather than at a Premier League academy.

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I'd love it! - It would feel alot more realistic to start off as a U18 manager and it would be the ultimate challenge!

As someone said.. when it already is possible for international teams why not clubs also? - SI, get crackin'!

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Either the youth teams massively increase, or reserve sides become a little bit bigger to help ease the burden.

The trouble is, although top league sides do tend to have very good U-18s, the further down the ladder you go, the smaller the squads. I get the impression that the people who want this kind of challenge want to start in the third tier (ish) rather than at a Premier League academy.

admittedly it would be fine for higher leagues, but the further down the ladder you go then the harder it will be because the attributes range for the players isn't big enough. First teamers in the BSN/BSS are already at the low end of the spectrum, so where would their U18s fit? In principle I think it's an idea SI should look into, but it will take a hell of a lot of work. It's not a simple feature to add in like agents!

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Guest markyosullivan
admittedly it would be fine for higher leagues, but the further down the ladder you go then the harder it will be because the attributes range for the players isn't big enough. First teamers in the BSN/BSS are already at the low end of the spectrum, so where would their U18s fit? In principle I think it's an idea SI should look into, but it will take a hell of a lot of work. It's not a simple feature to add in like agents!

Though a possible solution:

Maybe lower league teams could invite youth players to attend trial matches at the youth team pitches and from there you could choose to offer youth contracts to players from as youth as 14 to as old as 16.

My local team (Ballymoney United FC if you want to look them up ;)) has been relegated to the bottom division in Northern Ireland football (third tier) and they have their own youth academy/ youth teams, with teams from U12's to U18's.

So it shows that even really small teams can have their own good sized youth teams.

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Though a possible solution:

Maybe lower league teams could invite youth players to attend trial matches at the youth team pitches and from there you could choose to offer youth contracts to players from as youth as 14 to as old as 16.

My local team (Ballymoney United FC if you want to look them up ;)) has been relegated to the bottom division in Northern Ireland football (third tier) and they have their own youth academy/ youth teams, with teams from U12's to U18's.

So it shows that even really small teams can have their own good sized youth teams.

It's not just the number of players, but their ability which could be a problem.

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Guest markyosullivan
It's not just the number of players, but their ability which could be a problem.

This is where the youth recruitment program could come in. One of the options in FM2011 is to improve the youth recruitment program. The youth recruitment program could mean a number of things, such as:

1. I think that if you were the U18 manager then you would be in charge of giving trials to youngsters to see how good they would be, if you want the player to join your youth team you would have to offer the player a contract, and in order to get him to sign you could offer him a number of clauses (e.g. will be promoted to reserve team after 1 season) to help convince him to join your youth team.

That's one idea, but I'm sure there's many that could work.

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i was thinking about this the other day and i also thought of being the assistant manager/reserve team coach you could go scouting players give the manager reports on how the players are doing take charge of first team matches if your manager is banned or ill would be a good way too make your name in the game obviously if you were at a top side you would be u18s coach and then possibly reserve coach after so many years if the reserve manager leaves but if you don't want too wait round for ages you could apply for management positons at lowerleague clubs or reserve teams or even assistant manager if your approached to be assistant manager and reserve team manager it would make the whole football manager proccess better and for me personally more enjoyable

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i was thinking about this the other day and i also thought of being the assistant manager/reserve team coach you could go scouting players give the manager reports on how the players are doing take charge of first team matches if your manager is banned or ill would be a good way too make your name in the game obviously if you were at a top side you would be u18s coach and then possibly reserve coach after so many years if the reserve manager leaves but if you don't want too wait round for ages you could apply for management positons at lowerleague clubs or reserve teams or even assistant manager if your approached to be assistant manager and reserve team manager it would make the whole football manager proccess better and for me personally more enjoyable

That was quite a sentence!

No sure how you "go scouting" though. Surely that's for the scouts to do. And managers almost never get banned or "ill" in FM.

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SI have a general policy of youth appearing at 16. If you start having youth players appear at 12 or 14, that another several thousand players added to the database every year, slowing down systems.

I think real players have to be at least 16 to appear in the game.

Regen players can appear from as young as 14 - usually in Brazil.

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Guest markyosullivan
That was quite a sentence!

No sure how you "go scouting" though. Surely that's for the scouts to do. And managers almost never get banned or "ill" in FM.

Thinking he means going to watch the players that you are interested in when they are playing for their club. You know the way you can view other matches in FM without being the manager of either team.

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Thinking he means going to watch the players that you are interested in when they are playing for their club. You know the way you can view other matches in FM without being the manager of either team.

Blimey.

Taking charge of the under 18s with a view to becoming reserve manager, and then full manager would take AGES.

Watching meaningless games each week to check out average players would make this task impossible, not to mention boring.

I'll stick to being a manager, like it says on the tin.

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This is where the youth recruitment program could come in. One of the options in FM2011 is to improve the youth recruitment program. The youth recruitment program could mean a number of things, such as:

1. I think that if you were the U18 manager then you would be in charge of giving trials to youngsters to see how good they would be, if you want the player to join your youth team you would have to offer the player a contract, and in order to get him to sign you could offer him a number of clauses (e.g. will be promoted to reserve team after 1 season) to help convince him to join your youth team.

That's one idea, but I'm sure there's many that could work.

The problem is still with lower leagues, the U18 players attributes would all be so similar (lots of 1s and 2s) that it would be very hard to tell them apart.

If SI can really expand the current youth system and and improve the way regens are created, then they could look into this.

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Guest markyosullivan
Blimey.

Taking charge of the under 18s with a view to becoming reserve manager, and then full manager would take AGES.

Watching meaningless games each week to check out average players would make this task impossible, not to mention boring.

I'll stick to being a manager, like it says on the tin.

Its just like being a manager on FM, instead of scouting a player you can instead go to watch the player play.

Personally I don't like the idea of reports every day, but I'd like it if you could have 'Manager Interaction' quite similar to 'Player Interaction' where you could recommend a youth player to the Reserve team Manager or First Team manager. Of course 'Manager Interaction' would have a lot more options that recommending a youth player for the Reserve team/ First team.

It would also work if you were the First Team manager, you could interact with the Youth team manager and ask him who is currently the best youth team player, who is the best youth team player in (position), etc.

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Guest markyosullivan
The problem is still with lower leagues, the U18 players attributes would all be so similar (lots of 1s and 2s) that it would be very hard to tell them apart.

If SI can really expand the current youth system and and improve the way regens are created, then they could look into this.

If I'm honest I could only see the Youth team manager role being introduced into Premiership and maybe Championship clubs atm, but perhaps SI could could do something to help implement this feature into all leagues.

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Pros:

*Adds depth and realism to the game.

*Interesting challenge at a medium-big club.

*A good way to move to a higher league on a lower reputation.

*Would put a larger emphasis on who you hire as staff at the club (presuming the u18 and res manager module would be developed further).

*You could identify players that could be tutored by senior players.

*Requests players to be signed (i.e. only 2 left back so you request a left back).

*Arrange trials for youngsters and send a report to Manager with feedback on player.

Cons:

*Reputation problem, would the u18 and resman move on to bigger things too fast?

*Potentially more frequent staff sackings.

*More player staff disputes.

*Lack of players so grey players would be used.

*Lack of fitness due to res games (not too bad as there aren't many in England (ignorant of other countries res leagues)).

*Too many u18/res managers being promoted to senior manager.

That's off the top of my head

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I think real players have to be at least 16 to appear in the game.

Regen players can appear from as young as 14 - usually in Brazil.

14 year olds are fairly rare though. I'd say less than 5% of regens are 14, less than 15% are 15. If we have 100% of regens coming through at 14, it adds several thousand regens to each "development day"

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14 year olds are fairly rare though. I'd say less than 5% of regens are 14, less than 15% are 15. If we have 100% of regens coming through at 14, it adds several thousand regens to each "development day"

Totally. I wasn't defending it!! :) Just an observation. It's very rare in the UK to get a regen under the age of 16.

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i think this is a great idea the challenge would be great plus its a different option of how to start your career and would lead you to being able to rejoin the original club i.e start as cfc youth then res then leave for full management then after some success be approached to go back as 1st team. to all those not in favour i would say that even if you wouldnt choose to use it i thought we all wanted realism in fm this is just part of what we need to make the game more real.

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Guest markyosullivan

The likelyhood of being promoted from Reserve team manager to manager of a Premiership (and maybe even Championship) club isn't very likely. Yes you would get a few games as a caretaker manager, but only if you were really good and no other "big name" manager was currently available/interested in the job then you could maybe get the job.

Primarily I would think this would help build reputation so you could go from being a Reserve team manager at Man United, to become manager at a Championship side or League 1 side.

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Although i like the idea to some extent, implementing it into the game i think would be impossible. Personally there's alot of steps that i think FM could take in order to have more interation with reserve teams and youth teams but this would be a big step too far.

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Guest markyosullivan
Although i like the idea to some extent, implementing it into the game i think would be impossible. Personally there's alot of steps that i think FM could take in order to have more interation with reserve teams and youth teams but this would be a big step too far.

Well, why not have this as an option and then if people want to start off as a youth team manager / reserve team manager to build up their reputation, then they can.

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dont think it would work.

how would you be judged? Youth team football aint all about winning. Same goes for the reserves.

Imagine you being reserves manager. You can either use a young semi talented player, or a better over the top player. You know you'll have a better side with the older player(s) in the side, but it would be totally result oriented.

Now if you were the manager of the seniors (as we are now) you would probably want your younger players getting reserves action, even though you woyld be sacrificing on quality.. (atleast thats how I operate..)

It aint all about winning, but it would be if you was judged by your results.

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I think that some people arguing the point of "No cause the first take my players" need to think aobut it. If you choose to manage as an U18 manager, you are obviously aware that this will happen, so you take the challenge on knowing it may happen. I think it would be good as it would really let you see the young stars coming through.

Id personally like it as an option to use, i probably wouldn't use it alot but id like to have a go every now and then. Would be a good rep booster too, getting an U18's job at a big club that might not hire you straight up as the 1st team manager, and building a rep

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I voted yes, as im sure it wouldnt take much to implement this into the game, and it is there for people that want to give it a go.

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really? They play almost as often as the 1st team in most leagues

Ok yes this is true but there is nothing to play for, no promotion, no relegation and I dont think there are any major cups to be won unless your an international U18 manager and play in youth world cup. Also im pretty sure that as a youth manager you wouldnt have the power to sign players you would have to work with what you are given.

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I probably won't do it but I liked the idea.

Sure you will not have all the freedoms of a manager but you will be the guy shows up at staff meetings saying "XX looks like great prospect", "We should put XX to YY training" etc. Sounds challenging and fun.

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dont think it would work.

how would you be judged? Youth team football aint all about winning. Same goes for the reserves.

Imagine you being reserves manager. You can either use a young semi talented player, or a better over the top player. You know you'll have a better side with the older player(s) in the side, but it would be totally result oriented.

Now if you were the manager of the seniors (as we are now) you would probably want your younger players getting reserves action, even though you woyld be sacrificing on quality.. (atleast thats how I operate..)

It aint all about winning, but it would be if you was judged by your results.

as no one seemed to reply to this, i bump it.

Any thought on the above please?

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Ok yes this is true but there is nothing to play for, no promotion, no relegation and I dont think there are any major cups to be won unless your an international U18 manager and play in youth world cup. Also im pretty sure that as a youth manager you wouldnt have the power to sign players you would have to work with what you are given.

but i think you are missing my point.

you are 100% correct in what you say but what i am saying is that if you decided to take the job you would know this already so you would not complain. Its the same as taking an international job with holland but wanting to call up your polish regen, you know you wont be allowed but you took the job anyway :p

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I voted yes, as im sure it wouldnt take much to implement this into the game, and it is there for people that want to give it a go.

I suspect it would take a surprisingly large amount of work for the benefit of a very small number of players, so probably isn't high on SI's priority list.

Also, as with regards to recommending players to your manager to sign for the U-18s? That's what a scout does, so you would have absolutely zero say in signing players.

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Guest markyosullivan
I suspect it would take a surprisingly large amount of work for the benefit of a very small number of players, so probably isn't high on SI's priority list.

Also, as with regards to recommending players to your manager to sign for the U-18s? That's what a scout does, so you would have absolutely zero say in signing players.

This is where 'Manager Interaction' could be used. Eg:

1. The U18 manager could recommend a player for the First Team manager to sign.

2. The U18 could tell the First Team manager that a certain area in the youth team is weak (e.g. Defence), this could lead to the First Team manager strengthening that certain area in the youth team by signing youth team player recommended by you, the U18 or by scouts.

Just a few examples.

The Manager Interaction leaves open lots of possibilites...

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But when players are under 18, it's nigh on impossible to tell how good a player will be. Regens are already generated to plug gaps so clubs don't have a lack of youngsters in any given position, so you'd essentially be asking the manager to buy a surplus of defenders because the ones you have look least likely to be worthwhile.

Plus, if the club has two talented 20 year old centre halves, there is zero benefit to buying another talented 17 year old.

I see your point, but it all just seems to be unrealistic and needless additions to spice up a game mode that would by definition be less than thrilling.

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I prefer if they fix current issues before worrying about starting your managerial career with club youth teams. It isn't a bad idea but like international management, which is pretty boring to a lot of people if you manage a nation on its own, I'm afraid the novelty will die off pretty quickly.

And how do they calculate job security? Is the game going to monitor the Reserve teams and U18s of every single club on earth? U18s are usually managed by a coach and Reserves by the Ass man. There's lots of variables to consider and how they will affect the game, and if it's worth it.

I think the majority will probably at least want to be a manager and have some control over transfers and such. If there's a large consensus that would want this, I'm sure SI would at least think about it and see what they can do.

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