This feature is incredibly stupid

This is total crap. The board got taken over and I got sacked. I KNOW this happens in real life. But currently I am sat in an office having a break. I DO NOT appreciate spending EIGHT DAYS playing a game, getting Leeds from League one to 6th in the Premier league, to be sacked through some crap, random game feature. Who in the hell thought that this was a good idea? " OHOHOH, lets include this, as it happens in real life" Nice one, preumably you read about real life on the internet? GET RID OF THIS STUPIDITY IN 09! How many other games reward your continued play with "Arbitary BS feature No 3?"

Apologise for wasting 8 days of my life please.

It does happen in real life.... people like myself want fm to be as real as possible... i like this feature for sure.

why dont they add the "un-sackable" option while theyre at it??

It does happen in real life.... people like myself want fm to be as real as possible... i like this feature for sure.

I take it that its happened to you after 4 or 5 seasons then?

I understand your complaint, but like you say it DOES happen in real life. Also i think it would have been better making a constructive post rather than just a rant.

I actually think it is a good feature but needs to take into account your achievements not just your current situation.

why dont they add the "un-sackable" option while theyre at it??

lol. No. I don`t want anything like that. My game ended for a stupid random reason that the AI generated for no logical reason. Thus the entire game was lost due to the throw of a die

I take it that its happened to you after 4 or 5 seasons then?

it did first time around with leeds united... okay... did not get as far up the leagues as you did ...left to manage oxford and just recently started again at leeds...

I understand your complaint, but like you say it DOES happen in real life. Also i think it would have been better making a constructive post rather than just a rant.

I actually think it is a good feature but needs to take into account your achievements not just your current situation.

I am annoyed. This "feature" follows no logic. Is completely beyond your control. If I get the sack for being generally rubbish then fine. I have spent a long time on this leeds team and have to start again due to this random BS.

The game is a management sim and doesn't hide that fact. It strives for realism. Some people don't like that fact, but plenty do. Personally, I'd hate to lose my job because of a board takeover. However, I'm on the side that wants things as realistic as possible. Therefore, no matter how much that sacking hacked me off, I'd get on with it and continue my career by applying for jobs. That's what I want from the game. As realistic an experience as possible.

I say all this with due deference to the quite understandable and natural frustration of the OP, though.

I am annoyed. This "feature" follows no logic. Is completely beyond your control. If I get the sack for being generally rubbish then fine. I have spent a long time on this leeds team and have to start again due to this random BS.

Like I said, it's a management sim and it doesn't hide that fact. It might seem like 'random BS', but it does happen. Board takeovers are out of a manager's control. That's the point. Managers do lose their jobs because of it. I like the fact that the feature is there, even if I'd hate to fall victim to it.

Once again, however, I do understand the frustration being felt.

Like I said, it's a management sim and it doesn't hide that fact. It might seem like 'random BS', but it does happen. Board takeovers are out of a manager's control. That's the point. Managers do lose their jobs because of it. I like the fact that the feature is there, even if I'd hate to fall victim to it.

Once again, however, I do understand the frustration being felt.

Fair point, however, I play this game in my spare time. Its not my job. Thus when the game says I have played for 8 days, its spread over months. Its a total waste, thus I must start again, hoping that the AI takeover generator does not pick Leeds again. Obviously I could simply take the New Manager option, but that s not the point.

i understand the realism argument but i'm sure alot of people like to manage just the one club in each save they do like myself and don't really want to start all over again becuase of it

Getting sacked because of a board take over makes we want to play on just so i can get satifaction over my previous employers by beating them in every competition

i understand the realism argument but i'm sure alot of people like to manage just the one club in each save they do like myself and don't really want to start all over again becuase of it

Well, if that is what you want to do, once sacked you can retire your old manager and create a new manager and take over the club.

Fair point, however, I play this game in my spare time. Its not my job. Thus when the game says I have played for 8 days, its spread over months. Its a total waste, thus I must start again, hoping that the AI takeover generator does not pick Leeds again. Obviously I could simply take the New Manager option, but that s not the point.

Many of us, including myself, have full-time jobs and play in our spare time. I am fully aware that Man. United manager is not my job. For me, I get countless hours of entertainment and, yes, fun, from this game precisely because of how realistic it is. It isn't my job, but I do like being made to feel like it is! Part of that is taking the rough with the smooth. The majority of people play this game knowing they will have negative as well as positive experiences. But they see that as part of football, and can therefore enjoy all aspects of the game. For me, that includes the risk of a board takeover resulting in my sacking.

I realise you've paid money for the game, but I might suggest that, in future, you buy something else. From what you're saying, it sounds like this game just isn't for you. And I don't say that in an antagonistic way. I mean that genuinely.

if you did that well.. your rep will be high and youd probably get a job at a different team in europe, new challenge can only improve you. (starting from scratch with a blank canvase, youll probably get your job back the next season when that geezer underachieves)

Well, if that is what you want to do, once sacked you can retire your old manager and create a new manager and take over the club.

Like I said, I don`t think thats the point. See my game had no reason for the takover. Leeds were worth £108m had around £40m in the bank and were sold for £14m. How does that work? There was no logic to the takover in the first place.

An option to disable this would be nice. Especially as in real life they cannot simply do that.

Like I said, I don`t think thats the point. See my game had no reason for the takover. Leeds were worth £108m had around £40m in the bank and were sold for £14m. How does that work? There was no logic to the takover in the first place.

An option to disable this would be nice. Especially as in real life they cannot simply do that.

The chairman might still want to step down. He may have reached a certain age and want to retire.

Many of us, including myself, have full-time jobs and play in our spare time. I am fully aware that Man. United manager is not my job. For me, I get countless hours of entertainment and, yes, fun, from this game precisely because of how realistic it is. It isn't my job, but I do like being made to feel like it is! Part of that is taking the rough with the smooth. The majority of people play this game knowing they will have negative as well as positive experiences. But they see that as part of football, and can therefore enjoy all aspects of the game. For me, that includes the risk of a board takeover resulting in my sacking.

I realise you've paid money for the game, but I might suggest that, in future, you buy something else. From what you're saying, it sounds like this game just isn't for you. And I don't say that in an antagonistic way. I mean that genuinely.

What? Give me a break. I have played these games since Championship Manager 92.

Like I said, I don`t think thats the point. See my game had no reason for the takover. Leeds were worth £108m had around £40m in the bank and were sold for £14m. How does that work? There was no logic to the takover in the first place.

An option to disable this would be nice. Especially as in real life they cannot simply do that.

Takeovers happen for lots of reasons. Manchester United were in a very healthy financial state before the Glazers came along, but that didn't make the takeover illogical. Perhaps your chairman (presumably Ken Bates?) had just had enough. What I would argue is that it would improve the game if you were given a reason for the takeoever. Maybe it might lessen the sense of injustice. Although, in your case, I suspect not, my rather angry friend.

What? Give me a break. I have played these games since Championship Manager 92.

So then it was right for you then. Clearly you haven't read my post properly or taken any heed of my obvious effort to disagree with you in a friendly tone. Old CMs might have been right for you, but the game has come a long way. It's more realistic than ever and won't be changing that. Maybe that is what is not right for you. You wouldn't be the only one.

So then it was right for you then. Clearly you haven't read my post properly or taken any heed of my obvious effort to disagree with you in a friendly tone. Old CMs might have been right for you, but the game has come a long way. It's more realistic than ever and won't be changing that. Maybe that is what is not right for you. You wouldn't be the only one.

Telling me not to buy FM games is not ever going to be friendly is it? I have every game by SI since CM 92 including FM05,06,07,08. Whats the alternative? LMA? no thanks.

Telling me not to buy FM games is not ever going to be friendly is it? I have every game by SI since CM 92 including FM05,06,07,08. Whats the alternative? LMA? no thanks.

I didn't tell you not to buy it. I suggested it. And I suggested it because it seems to me that the game has taken a direction that you are not ever going to be happy with. You can complain about what happened to you, but SI won't remove it. Firstly, I suspect most people want it in there, and secondly because it's realistic. The best you can hope for is probably that SI introduce an unsackable option. I didn't posit any alternatives because I frankly don't care what you do. I wish I hadn't started to debate with you because you lack basic listening skills.

I didn't tell you not to buy it. I suggested it. And I suggested it because it seems to me that the game has taken a direction that you are not ever going to be happy with. You can complain about what happened to you, but SI won't remove it. Firstly, I suspect most people want it in there, and secondly because it's realistic. The best you can hope for is probably that SI introduce an unsackable option. I didn't posit any alternatives because I frankly don't care what you do. I wish I hadn't started to debate with you because you lack basic listening skills.

I also wished you had not, I can find ad-homs else where.

I have had a contract maintained and renewed after a board takeover and the new chairman even gave me £75,000 to spend on players, so it's not always a bad thing.

I would think it's a combination of Reputation, Fan Confidence and time spent at the club, not even AI managers are always replaced during/after takeovers.

No matter what spin you try and put on it, this is RIDICULOUS, this isn't real life where a manager could get sacked despite being WILDLY successful because a new impatient and stupid board want even bigger success, this is someone who payed £20-30 for a game experience and really this should never happen (I feel your pain I've been done over by ridiculous board decisions before despite being amazing).

Edit; just add a new manager (as Leeds manager) and sell all their players, this is the way to reward dickery from a game. This is assuming you got another job in the save game. Under these circumstances I don't consider this cheating I consider it payback, which was also an excellent movie, and Mel Gibson (payback) would totally of done it.

If this feature is so realistic, then where is my option to take my previous employer to court for wrongfull dismissal?

@earmack. Exactly.

Hey - I fully agree with Legion22 on this issue, and I don't think anybody will doubt my credentials as a realism-loving player of the game.

The point is, there are a few features where we do have to design around the idea that it is a GAME, not a simulator.

For me, the threat of getting sacked for poor performance adds to the excitement - because it feels like it is within my control. It is a logical consequence of my actions.

In Legion's case, getting sacked is not within his control, and it is not a logical consequence of his actions.

Therefore, exactly as he has said, it has ruined his save-game .. to no benefit to the game.

Its even worse when, as dafuge noted when this happened to him, it really is a random-number generator making the outcome: he re-loaded from a pre-sack date, and ran through that date a number of times .. and sometimes he kept his job, and sometimes he was fired.

How the heck does that add to the fun of the game?

Some people really do enjoy playing the game as their favourite team, and having a 20- or 30-year career with that one team .. how is it in any way "fun" for them to have the possibility of randomly getting fired?

Its not as big of a deal to those of us who have adopted the "managerial career" mode .. if we get fired, we apply to another team, and move on .. but we have to remember that we aren't the only ones who play the game.

Think of how this would look to the casual gamer - not the hardcore FM forumite. "I was playing the game, I was doing real well, and suddenly I got sacked for no good reason."

Its not the "I got sacked" thats the frustrating part of that sentence .. its the "FOR NO GOOD REASON".

I'll lodge my vote with Legion22 and .. from his earlier thread on the same topic, dafuge .. I think this is a feature we may want to disable, or at least adjust to ensure that it exempts a manager who has been in place, secure, for several years, and has earned honours and/or promotions for the team.

No matter what spin you try and put on it, this is RIDICULOUS, this isn't real life where a manager could get sacked despite being WILDLY successful because a new impatient and stupid board want even bigger success, this is someone who payed £20-30 for a game experience and really this should never happen (I feel your pain I've been done over by ridiculous board decisions before despite being amazing).

Edit; just add a new manager (as Leeds manager) and sell all their players, this is the way to reward dickery from a game. This is assuming you got another job in the save game. Under these circumstances I don't consider this cheating I consider it payback, which was also an excellent movie, and Mel Gibson (payback) would totally of done it.

If this feature is so realistic, then where is my option to take my previous employer to court for wrongfull dismissal?

@earmack. Exactly.

Its a game, it does happen in real life. You two are bitter. Its a game get over ffs.

Come on guys, get off his back. He's not saying he wants to be unsackable and have an insta-win button...

Realism has to take second place to fun. If a realistic addition sucks fun out of the game, it is damaging. Ultimately, this is a game.

I agree that a new board should speculate on your future. However, they should at least give you a chance to prove yourself, even if only for a few games.

Here is why its wrong.

I would never have been sacked without the takeover. I got taken leeds to 6th in the Premiership, had £40 in the bank and was throught to the quater finals of the FA cup. My squad was very young and many of them were worth a good deal of money.

The person who took over leeds was an AI generated character.

Thus this ai creation decides he wants a new manager.

Thus the AI has simply decided to sack me.

Logically, there is no reason for this. The AI has just decided I am getting sacked.

Incidentally, Legion, I'd offer three possible solutions besides binning the disc or starting over ..

1. Go back to a previous save - you do have rolling auto-save, don't you? - and go through the date that you got fired a couple times until you don't get the sack.

2. If you can't go back, add a new manager as Leeds Utd manager, then have him retire immediately. Have your previous Leeds Utd manager apply for the position. Run and re-run until he gets the position.

3. If he can't ever seem to get the position, simply add a new manager as Leeds Utd manager and retire the old one. If you really want to experience the life of the team, you don't really care about your personal manager, and it shouldn't matter who is "in charge". Yeah, you'll have lost the "favorite personnel" tags and a couple other things you've built up, but it shouldn't completely wreck your save.

Features that aim to frustrate for no reason whatsoever are not justified in a game such as FM. Getting the sack for no reason is not even realistic, nor does it enhance the game experience. Would anyone miss it if it wasn't there?

It's daft to defend things like this saying it has happened somewhere some time ago with some manager of some team. FM is a game and if it punishes the player randomly for no reason without compensating then the point of actually playing it gets lost somewhere. I'm sure people that like journeyman games moving around leagues and teams can cope but those that like to take a team and stick with it will be robbed of their time and effort they've put in the game.

Cheers, Amaroq, I am trying to do that now.

Here is the thing. I don`t want an unrealistic game. I want a fair one. If i sucked with Leeds and got the sack. Or wasted loads of cash or w/e and got sacked. Fair enough, I would take another job. I spent too much time on this game to accept this random sacking. Further, I don`t think taht anywhere has a manager, as successfull as I was has been sacked by a new chairman immediately, with no chance to prove himself. Its not even legal, let alone realistic.

After listening to the arguments against this feature, I am actually swayed in this direction. Sometimes I like just to manage Man United and nothing else and see how much success I can achieve with them. I only ever went as far as 2012 with them and never experienced getting sacked due to a takeover but I would be frustrated if it happened. What Amaroq suggested, if you could just retire and create a new manager and take over Leeds. You could use FMM to try and put it the way it was before like favoured personnel and your attributes and so on. I don't think you can restore the hall of fame, though. At first I disagreed with you Legion22 but now I do tend to agree. In the future maybe they could make it optional at the start of the game.

Amaroq -

You say that he was sacked for no good reason. But that's a question of interpretation. For me, he was sacked because a new board came along with a different vision and decided to let him go. That's a good reason.

I think it was r0x0r who said realism has to take second place to fun. But for me, you can't separate them. If the game didn't focus on realism, I probably wouldn't play it. It just wouldn't seem as fun.

Incidentally, I wonder if the fact that I'm not a gamer has anything to do with this. I literally don't play any other game of any nature on any format. That's mainly because the whole idea of it doesn't appeal. I'm not into the idea of entering fictional worlds and battling aliens or murdering pedestrians in the street. FM appeals to me because I love football and because, although I'm aware that it's as much a fantasy as any other game you care to mention, it still strives for a realistic experience. I just wonder if that explains why I'm so wedded to realism.

Legion22 pointed out that you can't take your former employer to court for wrongful dismissal. But given what I've just said, no one could be surprised to learn that I'd be chuffed if you could! I suppose what I would say on that matter, though, is that I only want the game to be about football. As much realism as they can give me, but in a football context. I reckon the idea of going to court lies maybe just outside that, which is why I wouldn't call for that whilst still calling for the new board sacking you feature to stay.

Sorry for being short with you in earlier posts Mike. I am a huge fan of the series, I hate this feature.

Cheers, Amaroq, I am trying to do that now.

Here is the thing. I don`t want an unrealistic game. I want a fair one. If i sucked with Leeds and got the sack. Or wasted loads of cash or w/e and got sacked. Fair enough, I would take another job. I spent too much time on this game to accept this random sacking. Further, I don`t think taht anywhere has a manager, as successfull as I was has been sacked by a new chairman immediately, with no chance to prove himself. Its not even legal, let alone realistic.

There's plenty of validity in the points made here. But, for me, I'd want to see the feature developed and tweaked, rather than abandoned. It's true that a successful manager would be unlikely to lose his job because of a new takeoever. There would have been a war if the Glazers tried to sack Ferguson. But Steve Bruce did leave Birmingham precisely because he didn't feel his job was secure amidst the frenzied takeover goings-on. Not the same thing as being sacked, I know. But it suggests he feared the plans of the potential new owners. And Roman Abramovich got rid of Claudio Ranieri because he had a different vision of who he wanted to manage Chelsea.

But I'm just providing examples here. If anything, they show that the issues is more complex than the game takes account of. Some managers get nervous and jump ship before the takeover happens. Others are undoubtedly safe, whatever happens. And some, like Ranieri, can do little but wait for the inevitable.

Perhaps, if the feature is to stay, it needs work.

Sorry for being short with you in earlier posts Mike. I am a huge fan of the series, I hate this feature.

Don't worry about it. I don't usually go down the ad hom route but I did feel like the points I was making were being ignored. I apologise for going there, though.

I really wish the thread I started last year was still around, there were some really good ideas and arguments in that.

To cut it short, the same thing happened to me, but worse. I had taken a club from the BSS all the way to the Premier League, only to be sacked due to a board takeover when I got there. I was absolutely fuming and if I was a more casual FMer I would have probably never played the game again.

It does push the boundaries as to whether it should mirror reality or play as a game but this particular feature can ruin games for people who like to manage just one club (which I think is probably the majority) and that's bad in my opinion.

Glad to see you guys patched it up - you both make very good points, in my mind, so it was a shame to see you crosswise like that!

Mike - I completely understand where you're coming from.

I've got a somewhat different perspective, as I'm a game designer by profession, so I do find that a focus on "fun" is a crucial aspect of game development, and one thing I've learned is that random "whammies" tend to be ill received in most games, unless they are a minor setback that the user can proceed to overcome. This doesn't fit that.

To be clear, I don't necessarily want to see the feature done away with: I love the idea of board takeovers, but they wind up being most exciting when I feel like I've been champing at the bit, and reigned in by a conservative board that doesn't want to take chances .. and here comes a new board, flush with cash that could help me realize my ambitions .. and I get the sack? wtf?

Or, alternately, if I've been keeping a financially struggling club afloat, barely out of administration, for three years .. and then finally here comes a new board to pay off the debt, maybe we can .. get the sack? wtf?

So, I'd definitely like to see it tweaked.

In previous threads, I've proposed the concept of a "Club Legend" status for managers, maybe equivalent to the manager getting placed on the club's "Favored Personnel" list. I don't want a Club Legend to be unsackable, but I would like them to be much more flame-resistant.

Interplay with takeovers: if a new board went to sack a Club Legend, fan pressure might prevent them from making such a change. (c.f., Sir Alex Ferguson and the Glazers).

Interplay with sackings-for-performance: a Club Legend might be allowed a negative season, one in which they failed to live up to high expectations. Board expectations might allow for a "reload" season. (c.f., Arsene Wenger not sacked for distant 4th place finish in 2005/06 after succession of first/second finishes). Likewise, a Club Legend might be allowed to preside over a relegation campaign and keep his job the following year had he been the one that got the club promoted in the first place.

Interplay with ultimatums: a Club Legend might be much more likely to succeed with an appeal to the public, e.g., telling the media "If the board don't give me X .. " .. with public pressure possibly forcing the board to accede to the demand .. and possibly painting the board as the "villain" of the piece if the manager is sacked / allowed to resign as a result.

Interplay with resignation: Currently, former mangers seem to be universally despised by the fans of a club following their sacking or resignation. A Club Legend would be immune to that loss, retaining their popularity and possibly returning to the club in the future. (c.f., Kevin Keegan at Newcastle.)

Its a game, it does happen in real life. You two are bitter. Its a game get over ffs.

Imagine you were playing oh say Half Life 2, you're in the middle of a level, wading through enemies, then suddenly you get killed by an asteroid, thats not fun is it? You didn't pay for that did you? Amoraq made the point better than I ever could, its not fun and its not reasonable to reward success with a sacking based on a random number being generated for the new board which makes them dicks.

Add yourself back as the manager?

i.e Options -> New User

Edit; just add a new manager (as Leeds manager) and sell all their players, this is the way to reward dickery from a game. This is assuming you got another job in the save game. Under these circumstances I don't consider this cheating I consider it payback, which was also an excellent movie, and Mel Gibson (payback) would totally of done it.

What is the point of that? Who are you getting your own back on? I agree, now, that it is frustrating getting sacked due to this but what you said here is not going to achieve anything. I don't consider it cheating either. I just consider it a waste of time.

Yeah, I know I could use a New Manger option, but its not the same.

Yeah, I know I could use a New Manger option, but its not the same.

Not realistic, is it?

Imagine you were playing oh say Half Life 2, you're in the middle of a level, wading through enemies, then suddenly you get killed by an asteroid, thats not fun is it? You didn't pay for that did you? Amoraq made the point better than I ever could, its not fun and its not reasonable to reward success with a sacking based on a random number being generated for the new board which makes them dicks.

Then do the level again. Its a game what you pay for is what you get. What are you like on FIFA or PES whichever one you buy?

"I lost, I never paid for this, this isn't fun." Yeah I can imagine you doing that.

Not realistic, is it?

lol, got me.

Then do the level again. Its a game what you pay for is what you get. What are you like on FIFA or PES whichever one you buy?

"I lost, I never paid for this, this isn't fun." Yeah I can imagine you doing that.

Well, I suppose a defeat on FIFA doesn't feel so arbitrary in the way that being sacked in a board takeover does.