Top club coaches load of rubbish why?

why in this game whenever you take over one of the top clubs i.e. barcelona, real madrid etc are all the coaches a load of crap? its just totally unrealistic that for example barcelona on the game there coaches are about 2-3 star which surely is wrong your telling me that in real life there coaches are that bad? don't think so. barcelona youth coaches on the game are worse than boltons in the game how can that be? La massa is meant to be the worlds best youth setup with top coaches so why can't this be reflected in the game?

i always find that whenever you take over a top team you have to replace the majority of the staff as they just are no where near the required standard you would expect of the standard of the team.

surely this needs looking into?

The La Massa staff are not in the game as La Massa is not in the game, that happens before the regen players arrive in your youth intake. 2-3 star coaches are not the worst in the world, and when your managing the worlds best players, its not always nessecary to have the worlds best coaches.

but surely the worlds top clubs like they have the best players surely they have equally the best coaches? on the game barcelona and real madrid coaches are no better than championship level coaches in england which surely is a bit unrealistic.

but surely the worlds top clubs like they have the best players surely they have equally the best coaches? on the game barcelona and real madrid coaches are no better than championship level coaches in england which surely is a bit unrealistic.

It could well be that La Masia is actually doing something fairly simple and therefore doesn't require too many world-class coaches.

but surely the worlds top clubs like they have the best players surely they have equally the best coaches? on the game barcelona and real madrid coaches are no better than championship level coaches in england which surely is a bit unrealistic.

What standard are coaches in the championship? Are they really a lot worse than those at bigger clubs? Being at a top club does not make you the worlds best coach, equally being at a championship club does not mean your a poorer coach, its not as black and white as it is for the playing side.

To be fair, I tend to replace most (if not all) the coaches at any club I manage. I simply prefer to shape the coaching team to suit my own purposes.

That's simply an advantage we have over the AI managed teams, in that we can get the most suitable coaches for our chosen training schedules. It's perhaps no different to some of the AI signing "logic" when it comes to players.

"Standard" in FM has more to do with reputation, than with their attributes. For example, as a lower league club, I can usually get a really good coaching team together with very low reputation staff. Indeed, many low reputation staff, I've also signed for much bigger clubs.

I'm not sure how the AI decides on who to employ as coaches, but if it uses the job centre I'm not surprised. Some of the rubbish you get applying for jobs even at decent clubs is insulting. A Player can use Staff Search to find really good coaches that will join the club but that never apply if you put an advert in the job centre.

The La Massa staff are not in the game as La Massa is not in the game, that happens before the regen players arrive in your youth intake. 2-3 star coaches are not the worst in the world, and when your managing the worlds best players, its not always nessecary to have the worlds best coaches.

The point is that just like the player stats, coaching stats should be accurately represented. the statement is correct that barcelona would be expected to have better coaches than Bolton..is that true in real life...100% it is

Regardless of coaches AI teams always develop good/best players before they even reach 24. I don't know how they do that even if they lack coaches. Like in the other thread about training, I guess all that matters is first team games.

The point is that just like the player stats, coaching stats should be accurately represented. the statement is correct that barcelona would be expected to have better coaches than Bolton..is that true in real life...100% it is

Are you 100% sure these coaches are better, or that they are better that coaching the Barca method? There is a big difference between the two. Barca dont just buy a good player and fit him into the team, they buy a good player who already fits the team, do they do the same with coaches?

To be fair, I tend to replace most (if not all) the coaches at any club I manage. I simply prefer to shape the coaching team to suit my own purposes.

That's simply an advantage we have over the AI managed teams, in that we can get the most suitable coaches for our chosen training schedules. It's perhaps no different to some of the AI signing "logic" when it comes to players.

"Standard" in FM has more to do with reputation, than with their attributes. For example, as a lower league club, I can usually get a really good coaching team together with very low reputation staff. Indeed, many low reputation staff, I've also signed for much bigger clubs.

I have always had questions about this myself. You can find retired players who become staff or regens who are actually very good attribute wise but only got a reputation as 'local'. You can sign these people and know they won't get pinched very often and they won't ask for high wages either. So what does the reputation of the staff mean in game? Does it mean that bigger clubs just won't want them or does it mean that higher rep players won't train as well under them as higher rep coaches? Surely there is a downside if they are cheaper and nobody else wants them.

Do you think a club with Barcelona's financial clout would employ cheaper and less skilled coaches?

They are not only training talent from a very young age but also training existing older talent whether it be in the Barcelona way or whatever way..... its football coaching all the same

Who do they buy? Thats a red herring, ALL managers will look to buy players to fit into a team or a buy a player to build a team around them. Its normally based around transfer and salary budgets..well it is for most clubs. Barcelona have goalkeepers, forwards, midfielders and defenders. They will have the best coaches to train and develop these players to their maximum. Another way to look at it is...would Messi be the player he is now if he joined Bolton and was coached by Bolton's coaches instead of Barcelona.....I dont think he would reach his maximum potential in the way he has now .... and I dont think he has maximised his potential just yet

If you look at European coaching in general at the top clubs its far superior to that of most english clubs. Holland and Germany are excellent examples. Its exactly the same for player rehabilitation.... we are behind in the UK and at a national level and its regularly proven at a national level. UK nations just aren't winning anything

A further example of european coaching....look at the head coaches of the premier league clubs and also of the UK national sides (for England rewind a few months) are they manager's from within their own nation? We just aren't seeing many english coaches head or otherwise get the top jobs abroad. Its probably also reflective that we dont have say English manager's with say eurpean coaching experience. When and if they make England manager we are not successful as a nation at the nation competitions. The only exceptionI can think of is Terry Venables and arguably he was probaly England's best ever head coach of recent times. What club did he coach at

Well thats my view any way

Well, if reputation for coaches works in the same way that players respond differently to "us" as managers, depending on our reputation as opposed to the players, then it may well do. I can't say I've noticed any problems though, when it comes to coaching staff.

As with players, I always place importance on attributes, rather than reputation. Important as reputation is within the game, aside from the motivational aspect for us, it's not nearly as important for us as it is for how the AI teams make their choices. Essentially, that's the biggest reason why we always have the upper hand, over anything the AI can or will do.

Prime example: Brazilian coaches and staff. Arguably, the "best" attributed staff in volume, in the FM database, come from Brazil. The counter-balance to this however, is their generally lower "reputation". We will see the merits of their great coaching attributes, but rarely will AI managed teams.

Do you think a club with Barcelona's financial clout would employ cheaper and less skilled coaches?

They are not only training talent from a very young age but also training existing older talent whether it be in the Barcelona way or whatever way..... its football coaching all the same

Who do they buy? Thats a red herring, ALL managers will look to buy players to fit into a team or a buy a player to build a team around them. Its normally based around transfer and salary budgets..well it is for most clubs. Barcelona have goalkeepers, forwards, midfielders and defenders. They will have the best coaches to train and develop these players to their maximum. Another way to look at it is...would Messi be the player he is now if he joined Bolton and was coached by Bolton's coaches instead of Barcelona.....I dont think he would reach his maximum potential in the way he has now .... and I dont think he has maximised his potential just yet

If you look at European coaching in general at the top clubs its far superior to that of most english clubs. Holland and Germany are excellent examples. Its exactly the same for player rehabilitation.... we are behind in the UK and at a national level and its regularly proven at a national level. UK nations just aren't winning anything

A further example of european coaching....look at the head coaches of the premier league clubs and also of the UK national sides (for England rewind a few months) are they manager's from within their own nation? We just aren't seeing many english coaches head or otherwise get the top jobs abroad. Its probably also reflective that we dont have say English manager's with say eurpean coaching experience. When and if they make England manager we are not successful as a nation at the nation competitions. The only exceptionI can think of is Terry Venables and arguably he was probaly England's best ever head coach of recent times. What club did he coach at

Well thats my view any way

Do Barca pay more for their coaches than anyone else? Like i say barca work to a specific system, not scouring the world for the best coaches, but for the best people to work within their system. They have a certain way they want their players to be brought up in, and they instruct their people to work towards that ethos. Bolton will work towards a different ethos and as such their coaches may not be as good at working in the Barca way but that doesnt mean they are worse coaches overall. Foreign clubs have better coaching systems, but again does that make them better coaches?

The highest salaries? I don't know but they are likely to have some of the best coaches, certainly better than Bolton's. Irs all relative for a specific nation but Barcelona would likely be paying whatever they have to get / keep the best coaches.

In this discussion I dont think its salary of coaches thats the issue but the level of coaches at a specific club. It would be reasonable to expect, on average, that the best clubs have the best or better levels of coaches. The OP questioned that Bolton had coaches with better attributes than Barcelona. I think if you asked any one if this seemed right I think the vast majority of people would say no.

Likely reason for this discrepancy is that there is an obvious focus on the relative skill levels of players cross clubs and within nations so that football skills are relative when compared to each other e.g. the best Norwegian player stands out a mile compared to his fellow norwegian club players but when compared to say Messi he maybe isn't that good.

This relativity / balancing etc of coaches perhaps isn't being done, or perhaps not to the same level as players...I can understand why. However that said the issue the OP has raised is a very valid point

The highest salaries? I don't know but they are likely to have some of the best coaches, certainly better than Bolton's. Irs all relative for a specific nation but Barcelona would likely be paying whatever they have to get / keep the best coaches.

In this discussion I dont think its salary of coaches thats the issue but the level of coaches at a specific club. It would be reasonable to expect, on average, that the best clubs have the best or better levels of coaches. The OP questioned that Bolton had coaches with better attributes than Barcelona. I think if you asked any one if this seemed right I think the vast majority of people would say no.

Likely reason for this discrepancy is that there is an obvious focus on the relative skill levels of players cross clubs and within nations so that football skills are relative when compared to each other e.g. the best Norwegian player stands out a mile compared to his fellow norwegian club players but when compared to say Messi he maybe isn't that good.

This relativity / balancing etc of coaches perhaps isn't being done, or perhaps not to the same level as players...I can understand why. However that said the issue the OP has raised is a very valid point

it has got to be something to do with balancing it out, because just say you have barcelona team as in the game with 4 and 5 star AI coaches then they would virtually be unbeatable!! just like in real life!! so that really validates my point surely it shouldn't be balanced out and be left alone and coaches given there correct rating.

this does not just apply to barcelona but i imagine all the top clubs around the world would have at least 4star coaches consistently through each position possibly even 5 star and i think this should be reflected in the game.

By being balanced out I mean the right level of coaching skills in terms of FM ability across all clubs. Are Bolton's coaches better than barcelona's irl? I've no doubt that coaching is one of several aspects behnd why Barcelona is probably the best club in Europe if not the World at the moment. From an FM perspective we would expect an experienced FM human manager to achieve more success than the best FM AI coach no matter how many stars he had over the long term. What we are looking for is realism amongst coach staff skills across clubs not just domestically but nationally

However we must also take into account that there are no doubt many coaches at a current FM CA level of say 1 or 2 stars but have the potential to reach 4 or 5 stars. This would be so irl....its just harder to see this and therefore harder to match this in FM

Aren't the coaches in FM generally poorly researched?

I read that somewhere on here, may not be true though.

Aren't the coaches in FM generally poorly researched?

I read that somewhere on here, may not be true though.

if so thats probably the answer to my question!!

Aren't the coaches in FM generally poorly researched?

They probably are compared to the players. It's understandable as unless you are actually working at the club how would you know who was doing what?

Yes, I agree.

Some are a bit random though and confuse me, for example, I would have thought Ajax would have had some quality youth coaches and yet on FM they're awful.

Aren't the coaches in FM generally poorly researched?

I read that somewhere on here, may not be true though.

Its probably unfair to say "poorly researched" but I think it could be said they don't have the same level of focus that the players do. Perhaps its a question for the SI lead researcher to confirm. However its clear there are some issues and the OP highlights a good example of this.

However the real crux here is:

- How does it impact the FM game?

- How does this impact AI Teams

- How does it impact the Human Managed Team

- To what level does a human managed team with actively managed training compare to one AI managed and can coach defecincies for the Human manager be somewhat overcome with more actively manged training regimes

I've never fully understood the level to which training can impact players maximising CA/PA potential and the level promising youth can be trained / exposed to 1st team football and how this impacts CA/PA potential

Interesting subject

Yes, I agree.

Some are a bit random though and confuse me, for example, I would have thought Ajax would have had some quality youth coaches and yet on FM they're awful.

In some cases coaches have data input as part of the research and its captured in the database for others its a randomised feature for "real life" coaches and they have the data generated as part of the initial game set-up. Thats likely a key reason for some decrepancies like that you mention and that of the OP

However the real crux here is:

- How does it impact the FM game?

- How does this impact AI Teams

- How does it impact the Human Managed Team

- To what level does a human managed team with actively managed training compare to one AI managed and can coach defecincies for the Human manager be somewhat overcome with more actively manged training regimes

I've never fully understood the level to which training can impact players maximising CA/PA potential and the level promising youth can be trained / exposed to 1st team football and how this impacts CA/PA potential

Interesting subject

Yeah, that's the nail on head for me.

You can argue forever who has, who are the best coaches and where and what should be according to your version, but cruxed perfectly there in post quoted.

Its probably unfair to say "poorly researched" but I think it could be said they don't have the same level of focus that the players do. Perhaps its a question for the SI lead researcher to confirm. However its clear there are some issues and the OP highlights a good example of this.

However the real crux here is:

- How does it impact the FM game?

- How does this impact AI Teams

- How does it impact the Human Managed Team

- To what level does a human managed team with actively managed training compare to one AI managed and can coach defecincies for the Human manager be somewhat overcome with more actively manged training regimes

I've never fully understood the level to which training can impact players maximising CA/PA potential and the level promising youth can be trained / exposed to 1st team football and how this impacts CA/PA potential

Interesting subject

-i think in some way it does impact on the game it would be interesting to find out from someone within SI

-and in some way i think it does impact AI teams as after a couple of seasons play AI teams are rubbish, this could be to do with players trained and youth at clubs not progressing as they should!

-like some one posted previous most human managers get rid of all the staff at club and will bring in there own coaches with the sight to nurture and improve the quality of the squad and youth prospects so i think it has a big impact on human players.

it would be interesting to hear from anyone at SI on this subject

i would lay a bit of a figue of blame at the constant poaching, i have seen a decine in coaches as they get poached for "first team" coaches and the great youth coaches become coaches

i would lay a bit of a figue of blame at the constant poaching, i have seen a decine in coaches as they get poached for "first team" coaches and the great youth coaches become coaches

Having a coach contracted as a "first team" coach in FM is always a waste to me as they can't coach your youth players as well as first/reserves. I've inherit a coach on this contract and what to keep him the first thing I;ll do is offer a new contract as a normal coach to increase the players he can coach

yea but the other clubs just take your best coaches for that purpose and as a result offer massive wages.

yea but the other clubs just take your best coaches for that purpose and as a result offer massive wages.

I suppose you shuld sign your best coaches to longer contracts?

The real question is; why are there fitness coaches that can't coach fitness in the game?

doesnt matter how long you sign your coaches for, they just get stolen regardless

doesnt matter how long you sign your coaches for, they just get stolen regardless

Or, as I've pointed out in a different topic, your coaches will somehow improve their CA ratings while simultaneously getting worse in the only category that they're actually coaching.

Part of the problem is that IRL teams don't have as many coaches as they do in FM, there's isn't a ball control or shooting coach, most teams will have the manager,assistant manager and a couple of first team coaches.

doesnt matter how long you sign your coaches for, they just get stolen regardless

The longer and bigger the contract the more compensation you may not stop the ciaching leaving but you will increase the money you get back

Besides, do staff attributes improve over time when they have PA points left?

If they don't (and I'm quite sure that's the case) then the reputation system AI uses for signing is even worse, because a mediocre coach with adequate CA but with average attributes will always end up at a Top Club while talented but unknown staff will rot in lower leagues... Or will be there for us to sign for peanuts

Coaches do improve over time, all staff do if they have PA points left.

why in this game whenever you take over one of the top clubs i.e. barcelona, real madrid etc are all the coaches a load of crap? its just totally unrealistic that for example barcelona on the game there coaches are about 2-3 star which surely is wrong your telling me that in real life there coaches are that bad? don't think so. barcelona youth coaches on the game are worse than boltons in the game how can that be? La massa is meant to be the worlds best youth setup with top coaches so why can't this be reflected in the game?

i always find that whenever you take over a top team you have to replace the majority of the staff as they just are no where near the required standard you would expect of the standard of the team.

surely this needs looking into?

exacly, this is very strange, how can for example Modena in SERIE C have better coaches than BARCELONA?