FM2008 too easy to win the league

There have been a lot of threads over the years calling for the intorduction of difficulty levels, this is something I disagree with as the game should have a natural difficulty selector built in, if you want to have quite a lot of money and a fair chance of winning the league choose chelsea or man utd. below this level though the game is still extremely easy, take the example of Liverpool, havent won a league in 20 years (and may not win one for the forseeable future) however it is no mean feat to win hte league in the first 1-2 seasons.

This problem gets more ridiculous as you drop down a level, I enjoy playing with Portsmouth, and hav efound myself winning the league within no more than 4 season on FM2008 (and 2007). In reality you should have to be a damn good manager to even break into the top 4 consistently, let alone be able to win back to back leagues and champions leagues within 10 years, this should be next to impossible.

The situation gets worse as you drop down levels, its not unusual to see Derby County regularly challenging for a CL spot within 4-5 years, and as you get further into the game the probelm gets worse. I'm expecting people to show me some examples of temas doing this in real life, and I accept it does happen and should be possible in the game, however it should be much more rare than it is now. Anybody who has played lower league games will know its not that uncommon to win back to back promotions, and to go from the lowest end of the league to the summit of the world game in a surprisingly short amount of seasons. Again, this should be possible, however there should only be 1-2 people per year who are able to manage a feat such as this in FM, not pretty much everybody who has a go.

It would be much more enjoyable to me if it was a really hard challenge to take a premier league relegation candidate to be able to make consistent top 6 finishes, and if you're really good to break into hte big 4, however the reality is it is pretty damn easy to go from strugglers to domination within 10 years.

There have been a lot of threads over the years calling for the intorduction of difficulty levels, this is something I disagree with as the game should have a natural difficulty selector built in, if you want to have quite a lot of money and a fair chance of winning the league choose chelsea or man utd. below this level though the game is still extremely easy, take the example of Liverpool, havent won a league in 20 years (and may not win one for the forseeable future) however it is no mean feat to win hte league in the first 1-2 seasons.

This problem gets more ridiculous as you drop down a level, I enjoy playing with Portsmouth, and hav efound myself winning the league within no more than 4 season on FM2008 (and 2007). In reality you should have to be a damn good manager to even break into the top 4 consistently, let alone be able to win back to back leagues and champions leagues within 10 years, this should be next to impossible.

The situation gets worse as you drop down levels, its not unusual to see Derby County regularly challenging for a CL spot within 4-5 years, and as you get further into the game the probelm gets worse. I'm expecting people to show me some examples of temas doing this in real life, and I accept it does happen and should be possible in the game, however it should be much more rare than it is now. Anybody who has played lower league games will know its not that uncommon to win back to back promotions, and to go from the lowest end of the league to the summit of the world game in a surprisingly short amount of seasons. Again, this should be possible, however there should only be 1-2 people per year who are able to manage a feat such as this in FM, not pretty much everybody who has a go.

It would be much more enjoyable to me if it was a really hard challenge to take a premier league relegation candidate to be able to make consistent top 6 finishes, and if you're really good to break into hte big 4, however the reality is it is pretty damn easy to go from strugglers to domination within 10 years.

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wonglf:

There have been a lot of threads over the years calling for the intorduction of difficulty levels, this is something I disagree with as the game should have a natural difficulty selector built in, if you want to have quite a lot of money and a fair chance of winning the league choose chelsea or man utd. below this level though the game is still extremely easy, take the example of Liverpool, havent won a league in 20 years (and may not win one for the forseeable future) however it is no mean feat to win hte league in the first 1-2 seasons.

This problem gets more ridiculous as you drop down a level, I enjoy playing with Portsmouth, and hav efound myself winning the league within no more than 4 season on FM2008 (and 2007). In reality you should have to be a damn good manager to even break into the top 4 consistently, let alone be able to win back to back leagues and champions leagues within 10 years, this should be next to impossible.

The situation gets worse as you drop down levels, its not unusual to see Derby County regularly challenging for a CL spot within 4-5 years, and as you get further into the game the probelm gets worse. I'm expecting people to show me some examples of temas doing this in real life, and I accept it does happen and should be possible in the game, however it should be much more rare than it is now. Anybody who has played lower league games will know its not that uncommon to win back to back promotions, and to go from the lowest end of the league to the summit of the world game in a surprisingly short amount of seasons. Again, this should be possible, however there should only be 1-2 people per year who are able to manage a feat such as this in FM, not pretty much everybody who has a go.

It would be much more enjoyable to me if it was a really hard challenge to take a premier league relegation candidate to be able to make consistent top 6 finishes, and if you're really good to break into hte big 4, however the reality is it is pretty damn easy to go from strugglers to domination within 10 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Admit it. You don't really care! You just came on to boast

your just a good manager, its all about the signings you do isnt it really, i have manager to get Brighton in Championsleague and i played 8 seasons, and now in my 9th....havent won anything yet, promoted second both times

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said that's my opinoum.

what's the point of game, whe you win EPL in 2nd season with portsmouth?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There have been a lot of threads over the years calling for the intorduction of difficulty levels, this is something I disagree with as the game should have a natural difficulty selector built in, if you want to have quite a lot of money and a fair chance of winning the league choose chelsea or man utd. below this level though the game is still extremely easy, take the example of Liverpool, havent won a league in 20 years (and may not win one for the forseeable future) however it is no mean feat to win hte league in the first 1-2 seasons.

This problem gets more ridiculous as you drop down a level, I enjoy playing with Portsmouth, and hav efound myself winning the league within no more than 4 season on FM2008 (and 2007). In reality you should have to be a damn good manager to even break into the top 4 consistently, let alone be able to win back to back leagues and champions leagues within 10 years, this should be next to impossible.

The situation gets worse as you drop down levels, its not unusual to see Derby County regularly challenging for a CL spot within 4-5 years, and as you get further into the game the probelm gets worse. I'm expecting people to show me some examples of temas doing this in real life, and I accept it does happen and should be possible in the game, however it should be much more rare than it is now. Anybody who has played lower league games will know its not that uncommon to win back to back promotions, and to go from the lowest end of the league to the summit of the world game in a surprisingly short amount of seasons. Again, this should be possible, however there should only be 1-2 people per year who are able to manage a feat such as this in FM, not pretty much everybody who has a go.

It would be much more enjoyable to me if it was a really hard challenge to take a premier league relegation candidate to be able to make consistent top 6 finishes, and if you're really good to break into hte big 4, however the reality is it is pretty damn easy to go from strugglers to domination within 10 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what do you want, a game you love but most people hate? A lot of people find this game "hard", any harder the product WILL DIE!

To bang a well banged drum, the problem is probably game consistantsy, and definitely a game intuitivity problem, rather than a "difficulty" issue.

For the millionth time, if SI released a manual that explained how everything worked and gave examples then we may be on the right track - they coded the thing, didnt they?

The current piece of garbage (so called manual) makes playing the game like trying to service a car using the highway code as a guide.

I wish it was something worth baosting about, the reality is that I really dont think i'm that good at this game (i wouldnt say that about call of duty 4 though, i'm almost god like, lol), all of my firends who play the FM series with teams other than man utd and real madrid can perform to the same level. In my portsmouth game (which annoyling has a bug in about 2015 where it keeps minimising and saying it cant load my fixtures, i had to stop playing it) within a couple of seasons i had bebartov, bale, akinfeev, saviola, tevez, pato, mascherano, fernandez, lots of players who are young and people may not have heard of so i wont mention them, and other top players. this is absolutely absurd, irl a team of portsmouths standard would be luck to attract one of these players, let alone all of them, unless they had a chelsea style takeover, which i didnt

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigerhgrrrrrr:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There have been a lot of threads over the years calling for the intorduction of difficulty levels, this is something I disagree with as the game should have a natural difficulty selector built in, if you want to have quite a lot of money and a fair chance of winning the league choose chelsea or man utd. below this level though the game is still extremely easy, take the example of Liverpool, havent won a league in 20 years (and may not win one for the forseeable future) however it is no mean feat to win hte league in the first 1-2 seasons.

This problem gets more ridiculous as you drop down a level, I enjoy playing with Portsmouth, and hav efound myself winning the league within no more than 4 season on FM2008 (and 2007). In reality you should have to be a damn good manager to even break into the top 4 consistently, let alone be able to win back to back leagues and champions leagues within 10 years, this should be next to impossible.

The situation gets worse as you drop down levels, its not unusual to see Derby County regularly challenging for a CL spot within 4-5 years, and as you get further into the game the probelm gets worse. I'm expecting people to show me some examples of temas doing this in real life, and I accept it does happen and should be possible in the game, however it should be much more rare than it is now. Anybody who has played lower league games will know its not that uncommon to win back to back promotions, and to go from the lowest end of the league to the summit of the world game in a surprisingly short amount of seasons. Again, this should be possible, however there should only be 1-2 people per year who are able to manage a feat such as this in FM, not pretty much everybody who has a go.

It would be much more enjoyable to me if it was a really hard challenge to take a premier league relegation candidate to be able to make consistent top 6 finishes, and if you're really good to break into hte big 4, however the reality is it is pretty damn easy to go from strugglers to domination within 10 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what do you want, a game you love but most people hate? A lot of people find this game "hard", any harder the product WILL DIE!

To bang a well banged drum, the problem is probably game consistantsy, and definitely a game intuitivity problem, rather than a "difficulty" issue.

For the millionth time, if SI released a manual that explained how everything worked and gave examples then we may be on the right track - they coded the thing, didnt they?

The current piece of garbage (so called manual) makes playing the game like trying to service a car using the highway code as a guide. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know anybody who finds this game hard, with a top team like chelsea or man utd anybody can win hte league or challenge pretty close to it, i'm playing a man utd game while im waiting for the update and its stupidly easy, you pick the big players who you've heard of in the positions you know they play, you dont waste your time with any of the tactics (or if you do you set them to the pre approved SI ones, its what i do, although i resest the attacking mentality to team for all but the CBs and GK). in my second season i'm 12 wins from 12 and havent conceeded a goal yet.

what is hard about doing this????

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

to bring a team up to start winning things

certainly not to be winning things with no effort at all

It's the result of last year's "waaaaaah FM's too hard" chorus.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I dont know anybody who finds this game hard, with a top team like chelsea or man utd anybody can win hte league or challenge pretty close to it, i'm playing a man utd game while im waiting for the update and its stupidly easy, you pick the big players who you've heard of in the positions you know they play, you dont waste your time with any of the tactics (or if you do you set them to the pre approved SI ones, its what i do, although i resest the attacking mentality to team for all but the CBs and GK). in my second season i'm 12 wins from 12 and havent conceeded a goal yet.

what is hard about doing this???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know anybody personally who still plays this, bacause it is too "hard". The threads are full of complainers, some may be idiots but I doubt the majority are.

I may try as you did tactically, maybe that is so simple it is successful for that reason. If so, surely that still highlights an error with the game.

To dispell your theory though, when was the last time someone Posted a super tactic, saying "use the standard tactic from the game". I DONT KNOW OF ANY.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigerhgrrrrrr:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I dont know anybody who finds this game hard, with a top team like chelsea or man utd anybody can win hte league or challenge pretty close to it, i'm playing a man utd game while im waiting for the update and its stupidly easy, you pick the big players who you've heard of in the positions you know they play, you dont waste your time with any of the tactics (or if you do you set them to the pre approved SI ones, its what i do, although i resest the attacking mentality to team for all but the CBs and GK). in my second season i'm 12 wins from 12 and havent conceeded a goal yet.

what is hard about doing this???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know anybody personally who still plays this, bacause it is too "hard". The threads are full of complainers, some may be idiots but I doubt the majority are.

I may try as you did tactically, maybe that is so simple it is successful for that reason. If so, surely that still highlights an error with the game.

To dispell your theory though, when was the last time someone Posted a super tactic, saying "use the standard tactic from the game". I DONT KNOW OF ANY. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you got the point.

also my watching matches experience tells me that AI doesn't use those pre set standard tactics. for me those tactics are weird and useless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said that's my opinoum.

what's the point of game, whe you win EPL in 2nd season with portsmouth? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea your right. The whole point of the game is to play for as long as you can without winning anything.

It really all depends how good you are. Sometimes it can take 2 or 3 seasons just to win the league with Man U! Your not using the old saving and restarting after a defeat trick are you cause that usually takes alot of the fun out of FM?

i'm not advocating using the standard tactic, however without changing the tactics its not amazingly challenging to win the league with a top team.

to dispell you aidea that my argument is flawed, look at how many people win the league numerous times with average teams, and look at how many people are capable of taking a really really bad team to world domination. now tell me 1 manager in real life whos taken a team from the conference to the champions league. yes i know that managers will often as not change teams before they get to this level of success, but there are way too many people getting none top teams to world domination, where is the difficulty in making an average premiership side difficult, how many managers can do it in real life? how many fail?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RJH10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said that's my opinoum.

what's the point of game, whe you win EPL in 2nd season with portsmouth? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea your right. The whole point of the game is to play for as long as you can without winning anything.

It really all depends how good you are. Sometimes it can take 2 or 3 seasons just to win the league with Man U! Your not using the old saving and restarting after a defeat trick are you cause that usually takes alot of the fun out of FM? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sometimes it takes sir alex ferguson 2-3 years to win the premier league, and he is arguably one of the best managers of all time. in comparison how long has it taken liverpool to win the league in real life? if somebody was trying for 19 years on fm and couldnt do it they'd be crying that its way too dificult, whereas liverpool not be able to win the league is a fiar reflection of reality.

I understand that people will want to play this game and be able to win succesive leagues with their favourite teams without too much difficulty, but what harm is there to be had in making it slightly more realistic in terms of dificulty?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RJH10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

it's been years since I had really long game, so maybe I'm not person to comment on this. but I must agree with you. it's really weird to win league after league when playing LLM. or CL with portsmouth, such situations should be extremly rare. but that's our opinoum, I believe many will disagree here.

it's all down to AI inteligence. in ME, in transfers in management. and this should be this games prime concern. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually winning something should be rare? What's the whole point of actually playing the game then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said that's my opinoum.

what's the point of game, whe you win EPL in 2nd season with portsmouth? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea your right. The whole point of the game is to play for as long as you can without winning anything.

It really all depends how good you are. Sometimes it can take 2 or 3 seasons just to win the league with Man U! Your not using the old saving and restarting after a defeat trick are you cause that usually takes alot of the fun out of FM? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't remember I said anything like that. it's personal prefference. winning leagues in the row it's not a simulation of real life, for me. winning CL with darlington, for example is the proof how poor AI still is, it's not that we are super managers it's more like, AI's bad.

what's sucsess for me it doesn't have to be for you as well.

Not so easy if you start in the bottom divisions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wonglf:

i'm not advocating using the standard tactic, however without changing the tactics its not amazingly challenging to win the league with a top team.

to dispell you aidea that my argument is flawed, look at how many people win the league numerous times with average teams, and look at how many people are capable of taking a really really bad team to world domination. now tell me 1 manager in real life whos taken a team from the conference to the champions league. yes i know that managers will often as not change teams before they get to this level of success, but there are way too many people getting none top teams to world domination, where is the difficulty in making an average premiership side difficult, how many managers can do it in real life? how many fail? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to see that doesn't happen. I know this is just agame but also it's suposed to be a simulation. I don't think it's easy to be a manager of real, man u or inter in real life.

on the other hand it should also be impossibile to bring a conference team to PL in 10 years, (without sugger daddy). I'm not sure but don't believe it's happened.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wonglf:

i'm not advocating using the standard tactic, however without changing the tactics its not amazingly challenging to win the league with a top team.

to dispell you aidea that my argument is flawed, look at how many people win the league numerous times with average teams, and look at how many people are capable of taking a really really bad team to world domination. now tell me 1 manager in real life whos taken a team from the conference to the champions league. yes i know that managers will often as not change teams before they get to this level of success, but there are way too many people getting none top teams to world domination, where is the difficulty in making an average premiership side difficult, how many managers can do it in real life? how many fail? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to see that doesn't happen. I know this is just agame but also it's suposed to be a simulation. I don't think it's easy to be a manager of real, man u or inter in real life.

on the other hand it should also be impossibile to bring a conference team to PL in 10 years, (without sugger daddy). I'm not sure but don't believe it's happened.

If you have money you could be the worst manager and just buy all the players that other clubs want. A good example is Chavski.

Without money they were useless. A manager comes along with billions to spend and in his first season he wins the league having spent around £200m

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Midge:

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have money you could be the worst manager and just buy all the players that other clubs want. A good example is Chavski.

Without money they were useless. A manager comes along with billions to spend and in his first season he wins the league having spent around £200m

Something you CANNOT do in FM because money doesn't talk enough

The fact is that managers IRL don't have access to the sheer level of help that FM players get.

Everyone on these boards can check the GPG for ideas on who to sign - with help from people who have checked the editor to find out which players will be the best; information that Billy Davies (to name one unfortunate example) doesn't have access to.

Or they can check T&TT to find out what the perfect training schedules are for certain players/teams or to find out which tactics work with the match engine. Information that Kevin Keegan (to name another unfortunate example) doesn't have access to.

Is it perhaps too easy to bring better players into your squad? Probably. But SI have coded it so that AI clubs will look for players and if no-one was looking at the 30-goal-a-season striker you signed for free, that's probably just good luck.

Is FM too easy? Maybe. But sometimes - and I'll never forget the 6 games with which I tried to save FC Kobenhavn from relegation and failed due to some horrible luck - it's also excrutiatingly hard.

It is more difficult if you play by LLM rules. Most people though don't want to play that way, which I can understand, but then moan on here that the game is to easy, so you can't win.

"you dont waste your time with any of the tactics (or if you do you set them to the pre approved SI ones, its what i do, although i resest the attacking mentality to team for all but the CBs and GK). in my second season i'm 12 wins from 12 and havent conceeded a goal yet.

what is hard about doing this????"

i manage one of the big teams, but i do all of the tactics and training myself, as i believe that it gives you of a more hands on feeling

also i didnt win the league until the third season because of the other teams being better than me, so i dont think this game is too easy. Its not particularly hard but i think that some of the points you made in the OP are wrong

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZlatanFollower:

"you dont waste your time with any of the tactics (or if you do you set them to the pre approved SI ones, its what i do, although i resest the attacking mentality to team for all but the CBs and GK). in my second season i'm 12 wins from 12 and havent conceeded a goal yet.

what is hard about doing this????"

i manage one of the big teams, but i do all of the tactics and training myself, as i believe that it gives you of a more hands on feeling

also i didnt win the league until the third season because of the other teams being better than me, so i dont think this game is too easy. Its not particularly hard but i think that some of the points you made in the OP are wrong </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're slightly missing my point. I have no criticism of people developing their own tactics and training, there is a huge sense of satisfaction when it pays off, I just couldnt be bothered doing that because i'm just waiting for the patch to come out so i can start a new game.

Furhtermore I pointed out that it should only be realistic to be able to win hte league maybe once in every 2-3 years, unless you have a great team and really know what you're doing. The fact of the matter is it is very easy to take a team such as portsmouth or sunderland and turn them into champions league favourites (or there abouts) within 6-8 seasons. I saw a post somewhere else earlier on where somebody had taken sheffield wednesday to champions league glory within 8 seasons. feats such as this should be rare enough that it would be worthy of a post on the forum to point out you've done it, maybe 1-2 a month. if everybody who had managed a feat such as this posted it on the forums there would be precious little else to read here

wonglf is right.

people may come here and say what's the point in playing as sunderland/portsmouth if you can't win things.

well you dont get harry redknapp wondering that.

when i play as a lower league team every now and then i dont expect to take that team up to championsleague glory.

i expect to job hop.

to get my conference league team performing well, getting my rep up and then moving to a better team, doing the same with them, perhaps getting promotion then settling down in the near league then moving again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Midge:

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have money you could be the worst manager and just buy all the players that other clubs want. A good example is Chavski.

Without money they were useless. A manager comes along with billions to spend and in his first season he wins the league having spent around £200m </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something you CANNOT do in FM because money doesn't talk enough

Out to prove you wrong there, I'm Barca.

141 million to spend in Jan. Hoo baby!

Then again, I'm already leading the table with an aging, overpaid, overloaded and just plain lazy squad. That's why I'm World Class.

(that sounds like an advertisement)

Most of us want the game to seem challenging, but to win.

It's really that simple to see.

I've often wondered if one of the problems with the game is a sort of over-reliance on tactics. Before anyone runs off shrieking in anger at this, or mildly disagreeing, consider a few real life examples.

Is Arsene Wenger a good manager? I'm a United fan, and the obvious answer is still yes, of course he bloody well is. But... Is Wenger a master tactician? I've never seen evidence of it.

Ferguson? He's clearly a good motivator, but he's far from perfect. Good players have underperformed for him. Look at Veron or Forlan. Given the difficulties United had when attempting to switch to a 4-2-3-1 a few seasons ago, I'm not sure that he's a tactical god, though obviously they both know more than the assembled ranks of the SI forums.

This brings me to an obvious answer, if neither's a superb (note the word, I'm not saying they're bad, they're not, but they aren't superb, so clearly they have something else worth examining) what are they doing? In both cases, they've shown great skill at putting together teams, Wenger may have spent less, but what they've achieved is similar. Once they've assembled a strong team, they've then had them play football that suits them. Unlike us, they don't do a 'play seven notches of short passing' approach to things.

FM for obvious reasons has to slightly undervalue the importance of footballers in regards to team performance, otherwise it'd be boring. ^^

This is what presumably causes teams to suddenly become sh*t, United in my games always collapse when Fergie leaves, but Arsenal usually lose Wenger early and **** up too.

Moreover, if you're like me, when I start a game, I use Mini-SE etc to look for talented players. It's more fun as far as I'm concerned. Add to that the fact that I'll probably sign a decent couple of players who in real life would probably never be signed. (EG, signing some brilliant Argentinian for a mediocre Premiership team, when in reality, very few teams would bother looking in that direction) As a result, are teams are artificially stronger than they should be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scath:

Most of us want the game to seem challenging, but to win.

It's really that simple to see.

I've often wondered if one of the problems with the game is a sort of over-reliance on tactics. Before anyone runs off shrieking in anger at this, or mildly disagreeing, consider a few

real life examples.

Is Arsene Wenger a good manager? I'm a United fan, and the obvious answer is still yes, of course he bloody well is. But... Is Wenger a master tactician? I've never seen evidence of it.

Ferguson? He's clearly a good motivator, but he's far from perfect. Good players have underperformed for him. Look at Veron or Forlan. Given the difficulties United had when attempting to switch to a 4-2-3-1 a few seasons ago, I'm not sure that he's a tactical god, though obviously they both know more than the assembled ranks of the SI forums.

This brings me to an obvious answer, if neither's a superb (note the word, I'm not saying they're bad, they're not, but they aren't superb, so clearly they have something else worth examining) what are they doing? In both cases, they've shown great skill at putting together teams, Wenger may have spent less, but what they've achieved is similar. Once they've assembled a strong team, they've then had them play football that suits them. Unlike us, they don't do a 'play seven notches of short passing' approach to things.

FM for obvious reasons has to slightly undervalue the importance of footballers in regards to team performance, otherwise it'd be boring. ^^

This is what presumably causes teams to suddenly become sh*t, United in my games always collapse when Fergie leaves, but Arsenal usually lose Wenger early and **** up too.

Moreover, if you're like me, when I start a game, I use Mini-SE etc to look for talented players. It's more fun as far as I'm concerned. Add to that the fact that I'll probably sign a decent couple of players who in real life would probably never be signed. (EG, signing some brilliant Argentinian for a mediocre Premiership team, when in reality, very few teams would bother looking in that direction) As a result, are teams are artificially stronger than they should be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

interesting.

we could then say, what makes wenger better than the previous arsenal managers? i would say wenger is better in the way he gets his players to play in his system.

he buys the players to fit his system (atheltic powerful, fast) and does things that way.

tactics for defensive work is all important. you can't have a good defense without good tactics in my mind so for reina to keep loads of clean sheets then benitez must be good at getting the tactics right.

the problem i see is that people see 'master tacticians' as someone who makes a tactical change mid game and the team suddenly start playing brilliantly and win.

in my mind this just means the manager got the tactics wrong in the first place

if the manager gets the tactics right, gets the players playing well within the tactics then it can look effortless.

Well it's a fascinating concept.

Keep in mind the immense effort needed to marshal a defence, and also allow it to fluently lead into attack. It'd seem to be that the key issue would be simplicity over anything else, but then, some managers bring different approaches.

Mick McCarthy was clearly always a man-manager. It certainly worked wonders for him when he took Ireland to a World Cup game with Spain we almost one.

The problem with the game is, how could you ever replicate that aspect of management?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

wonglf is right.

people may come here and say what's the point in playing as sunderland/portsmouth if you can't win things.

well you dont get harry redknapp wondering that.

when i play as a lower league team every now and then i dont expect to take that team up to championsleague glory.

i expect to job hop.

to get my conference league team performing well, getting my rep up and then moving to a better team, doing the same with them, perhaps getting promotion then settling down in the near league then moving again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hopping from one job to another is good. I must admit I never really thought of seeing the game that way.

Your example about Redknapp is a bit weird though. We play a game in our free time. He's payed (actual money and lots of it) to make his team do well. It's no way near the same thing.

Isn't this call for 'realism' a bit of a paradox anyway? It's a computer game afterall. Trying to deny that is what made FM07 and FM08 very hard to get into and enjoy.

There used to be a zillion different ways to play the game. A different club, a different division or country. Depending on what you chosen you got different gameplay. Then there's the choice of which players to play, which formation to play etc.

That's how you keep the game interesting. If you play with Manchester United all the time, it's quite logical FM is too easy for you.

YOU used to be able to decide how to play the game.

In FM07 and FM08 SI have changed the game in a way that actually getting your team (makes no difference which level or what tactic) to play consistent football seems near impossible. I say 'seems' because it's probably not impossible if you put enough time.

People have different definitions of 'enough time' though. I think SI's definition of 'enough time' isn't the same as quite a lot of people's.

Long post, but I feel strongly about the points I'm trying to make.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yalcin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

wonglf is right.

people may come here and say what's the point in playing as sunderland/portsmouth if you can't win things.

well you dont get harry redknapp wondering that.

when i play as a lower league team every now and then i dont expect to take that team up to championsleague glory.

i expect to job hop.

to get my conference league team performing well, getting my rep up and then moving to a better team, doing the same with them, perhaps getting promotion then settling down in the near league then moving again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hopping from one job to another is good. I must admit I never really thought of seeing the game that way.

Your example about Redknapp is a bit weird though. We play a game in our free time. He's payed (actual money and lots of it) to make his team do well. It's no way near the same thing.

Isn't this call for 'realism' a bit of a paradox anyway? It's a computer game afterall. Trying to deny that is what made FM07 and FM08 very hard to get into and enjoy.

There used to be a zillion different ways to play the game. A different club, a different division or country. Depending on what you chosen you got different gameplay. Then there's the choice of which players to play, which formation to play etc.

That's how you keep the game interesting. If you play with Manchester United all the time, it's quite logical FM is too easy for you.

YOU used to be able to decide how to play the game.

In FM07 and FM08 SI have changed the game in a way that actually getting your team (makes no difference which level or what tactic) to play consistent football seems near impossible. I say 'seems' because it's probably not impossible if you put enough time.

People have different definitions of 'enough time' though. I think SI's definition of 'enough time' isn't the same as quite a lot of people's.

Long post, but I feel strongly about the points I'm trying to make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes but is harry really going to win anything in the sense of cups,leagues,champions league? doubtfull. he'll win matches but i dont think this is what people are claiming. their claiming that you should be able to win cups.

asking for realism in this game isn't a paradox because it is possible to make the game realistic.

you honestly dont have to put that much time in to getting your team to play consistent.

as i've said in previuos threads i spend about 15 minutes sorting my training schedules back with FM07 and i haven't changed them since.

my formation and team/player tactics are the same as FM07 and that took abit of tinkering to get working but hardly requires changing all the time.