Nikola Zigic breaks FM

Nikola Zigic is so tall 6’8” his advantage contesting high balls isn’t sufficiently modelled in the match engine by giving him the maximum attribute value of twenty.

Just to get this out of the way before some one posts to say the opposite.

The Jumping attribute is the only attribute used to calculate the highest point a player can get his head to. Height is taken into consideration when assigning a Jumping value to a player. Height is not a base value on top of which jumping is added.

Source post 9 of this thread.Link

He probably needs a value 22 or more to accurately reflect just how dominant in the air he is.

Height dose have one function in the match engine. It determines how high off the ground the ball is before a player tries to use his head to direct it. And ironically this may hinder Zigic’s effectiveness, because he may well be trying to control high balls with his legs or chest when he would be better off stooping to head them.

Now I don’t think changing the way the game works to allow values beyond twenty is necessary or a good thing.

Ideally the ME would be changed so vertical reach was height + Jumping to over come this. Also it would be changed so that players would aim high balls at a spot a few inches above the intended recipients head.

But a small change using the existing match engine could be the use of a hidden PPM “Very Tall”. Because the attribute values one to twenty are visual indications of a four digit number used by the ME there are differences in the level of skill between players with the same value for an attribute.

The “Very Tall” PPM would lock the players Jumping attribute at the highest four digit value and not let it drop. There might also have to be a little change to the way players with this PPM use up CA on Jumping to stop them dropping dramatically in other attributes as they age but that’s a small problem.

I would actually argue for removing the Jumping attribute from the game altogether. I think a player's jumping prowess would be better calculated by adding together his Height, Agility, and possibly Strength and some other values. There's quite a few attributes in the player profile that I think are somewhat superfluous and could be trimmed a bit.

so a 6ft 5 striker with jumping 7 can and will be beaten by a dwarf with 15 ?

so a 6ft 5 striker with jumping 7 can and will be beaten by a dwarf with 15 ?

I think it's been changed so that a dwarf would have a jumping limit and wouldn't have 15 for jumping.

In the Everton data thread, Tim Cahill had been given 14 for jumping but the game had limited it to 11 due to his height.

I'm a Birmingham fan and big Zig has not been very good at all in the air this season,in fact when he was on loan at Racing Santander,he scored most of his goals with his feet.

Tim cahill is great in the air. He often out jumps defenders, maybe thats more due to positioning though, but still 11 for jumping probably means he wont win many on this game.

I think its wrong. Height + Jumping should be a taken into account.

Two things:

a) Jumping is not quite "how high he can leap", but actually how high he can get his head (which it has to be, as a player's height is taken into consideration in the jumping attribute)

b) Comparing two players' jumping attributes is much preferable to comparing more than one attribute from a playability point of view. Just don't look at the player's height, and you'll be fine. But if you have to add height + jumping and divide by agility before multiplying by balance, what's the real benefit (in terms of making the game more playable) over comparing two jumping attributes? Isn't that just unecessarily complicated and obscure?

I agree it's odd, but it does make life easier.

so a 6ft 5 striker with jumping 7 can and will be beaten by a dwarf with 15 ?

In practice, you will never find a striker with jumping that low, as it implies he ducks when jumping.

The likes of Cahill are exceptions to the rule - I think he's jumping 14 in the latest patch, which is above the recommended maximum.

I like the idea of height + jumping because that clearly shows the maximum he could possibly be which for a very tall player means they are capable of reaching balls at points that other players are simply never possible to win the ball at.

You shouldn't get carried away with these being the only attributes though, some very good players in the air do it by timing their runs, meeting the ball at the very highest they possibly can etc... While the very tall players can be defended by messing up their approach to the high cross preventing them from getting a good leap and from getting to the optimal place for them to head the ball.

Nikola Zigic is so tall 6’8” his advantage contesting high balls isn’t sufficiently modelled in the match engine by giving him the maximum attribute value of twenty.

Just to get this out of the way before some one posts to say the opposite.

The Jumping attribute is the only attribute used to calculate how high off the ground a player can leap. Height is taken into consideration when assigning a Jumping value to a player. Height is not a base value on top of which jumping is added.

Source post 9 of this thread.Link

He probably needs a value 22 or more to accurately reflect just how dominant in the air he is.

Height dose have one function in the match engine. It determines how high off the ground the ball is before a player tries to use his head to direct it. And ironically this may hinder Zigic’s effectiveness, because he may well be trying to control high balls with his legs or chest when he would be better off stooping to head them.

Now I don’t think changing the way the game works to allow values beyond twenty is necessary or a good thing.

Ideally the ME would be changed so vertical reach was height + Jumping to over come this. Also it would be changed so that players would aim high balls at a spot a few inches above the intended recipients head.

But a small change using the existing match engine could be the use of a hidden PPM “Very Tall”. Because the attribute values one to twenty are visual indications of a four digit number used by the ME there are differences in the level of skill between players with the same value for an attribute.

The “Very Tall” PPM would lock the players Jumping attribute at the highest four digit value and not let it drop. There might also have to be a little change to the way players with this PPM use up CA on Jumping to stop them dropping dramatically in other attributes as they age but that’s a small problem.

Tim Cahill eats Zigic for breakfast.

Joke

Tim Cahill has Jumping 17 on FM10. This allied with his excellent mental and heading stats will see him win a lot of headers.

Not sure if it's different on FM11.

Tim Cahill has Jumping 17 on FM10. This allied with his excellent mental and heading stats will see him win a lot of headers.

Not sure if it's different on FM11.

think his jumping was lowered due to the new mechanics. He still beasts games on my save (jumping is 14 now i think).

Still, interesting theory from the OP

Two things:

a) Jumping is not quite "how high he can leap", but actually how high he can get his head (which it has to be, as a player's height is taken into consideration in the jumping attribute)

Badly phrased by me I agree and I have now edited it.

I think I like the suggestion of a "very tall" PPM, though maybe a PPM itself wouldn't be right because it isn't a move.

There should be a fundamental change to have jumping a stat on its own and have the match engine use that + heigh (or some formula thereof) during the match.

The way it is just now leads to too many problems (Cahill).

If it was changed, you would see some players that are very tall with a poor jumping stat (as real life), but this means that they can be trained to be a better jumper as would happen in real life.

Cahill is a freak of nature (love that guy).

Oh and I remember 5'7" Obafemi Martins scoring a header of off a corner kick against Man United a couple years back.

I like the idea of height + jumping because that clearly shows the maximum he could possibly be which for a very tall player means they are capable of reaching balls at points that other players are simply never possible to win the ball at.

Of course you can represent 20 as 10+10 or (20+20)/2; the question is, does that in anyway improve the game, as opposed to just displaying the result of the calculation for you (aka jumping)? I personally would find it annoying to have to look at two completely different places on the screen and do some maths just to compare two players in the air. At the end of the day, the result is going to be exactly the same.

As it is, small players just don't have 20 jumping, and they are therefore unable to reach those balls that tall players who are also good jumpers can reach. Remember, jumping factors in height, so it's generally higher the taller you get.

I think I like the suggestion of a "very tall" PPM, though maybe a PPM itself wouldn't be right because it isn't a move.

Perhaps there could be a new section in "Positions" called "Special Characteristics" or something?

this game is just simply telling us football should use your foot to play.

stupid match engine

I think the problem with the new mechanics of jumping is that it just isn't intuitive. Clearly players like Zigic and Crouch are fantastic in the air due to their height, however, players such as Cahill, Cannavaro are also exceptional due to their jumping.

If Zigic and Cahill were to take a vertical jump test, clearly Timmy would win. Which makes including a mechanic in game where Jumping is related to height quite confusing. I can understand how SI are using it purely as a value in game, but to me the player, seeing an attribute value of 11 for Cahill for jumping is absurd, something which is likely to cause debate and drama in the data issues forum, especially amongst players who don't understand the height/jumping guidelines SI are using.

Personally, I think the mechanics should be changed in regards to aerial prowess, be it removing the attribute altogether or perhaps tweaking the system to make it more intuitive to the player.

we need to sign chinese kungfu fighting shaolin dwarf with wire-fu ability

The real solution would be to explain things in the manual Then no one would be confused.

Zigic and Carroll cant win header in game

Ahhh the good old days when jumping was jumping and height was height, I thought it was strange to change it as it would clearly lead to Timmy Cahill getting ripped off and seemed to make perfect sense the way it was. Zigic and Crouch rarely jump much, Maybe a gangly striker PPM where the guy is always tripping over his own feet but has some ammusing goal celebrations on occasion.

The real solution would be to explain things in the manual Then no one would be confused.

there´s a manual?!?

did they fix the jumping issue in the last patch, i forget?

you know, where 5'2" guys who would never win a header in RL were beating 6'4" centre-backs in the air?

In any case, Zigic is crap in the air... did you see him against villa? The villa defenders beat him virtually every time...

Jumping should be how high a player can leap off the ground, not how high he can get his head... the height attribute should then be added to the jumping attribute to calculate his maximum "reach".

Huddersfield once had a left-back called Tom Cowan who wasn't the tallest but he was a beast in the air, I reckon he could leap 3 or 4 feet off the ground! Scored loads of goals with his head and was as good as having a 6 footer in defence...

there´s a manual?!?

not in the box... sadly

another of SI's Epic. Fails. (IMHO)

there´s a manual?!?

Yes, but it's not very helpful.

I'm just curious. Would renaming 'jumping' to something like 'aerial reach' remove the problem altogether? Not that I think it's a problem.

Cahill is a freak of nature (love that guy).

Oh and I remember 5'7" Obafemi Martins scoring a header of off a corner kick against Man United a couple years back.

i remember a fan running onto the pitch and putting one past david james i remember a goalkeeper scoring. i remember 2 plays on the same team fighting and getting sent off. see the trend these are all things that wouldnt happen consistantly so why are you suggesting that they should on here