FM 2009 - J-League

As Konami hold the license for the rights of the J-League, I was wandering if it is possible that this could still be implemented into the next version of Football Manager using completely fake player, club, stadium names, etc.

I was just thinking the same yesterday. All for it.

Then it just becomes a completely fake league, with the Japanese league structure.

What's the point of that?

i'd rather they were able to get the license, but a fake japanese league wouldn't hurt since we can do fake leagues anyway.

then again, still no point having 1 fake league and all the rest are real.

Its high time,we should be able to change team names

Only for the J-League,let the teams have names which resemble the original names,and then we can edit them,SI should put it.We can edit them,just like in PES

I'm sure if they had a license to do even this then they would have done it. The details of the license owned by Konami probably mean that SI can't do anything to do with the J-League.

I'm sure the only way would be for the editor to be enhanced so that it allows the user to create a league themselves.

the license probably covered all players too. which mean all the players will have fake names. editing all those wont be fun at all.

also i am curious that why CM has the J-league, the last time i check. i wonder if eidos got a deal with konami or did they just sneak that in since there is not that many people buy the game anyway

Surely the J-League issue can't be related to Konami, considering they don't produce a game that competes with FM I would have thought the cost of getting a licence wouldn't be that high.

I get the feeling that SI/Sega are taking the hard nosed position & refusing to negotiate with other software houses when it come to purchasing a sub-licence agreement.

it is possible to fix the club names already......

With regards to the player names i mentioned this a few weeks ago in another thread. I suggested all the teams have jens mustermans a la Oli Kahn.

Interesting to hear about CM though. I don't buy it (don't even know if i can over here) so hopefully it opens some doors for SI to negotiate. If not, maybe Egyptian league....

Originally posted by Barside:

Surely the J-League issue can't be related to Konami, considering they don't produce a game that competes with FM I would have thought the cost of getting a licence wouldn't be that high.

I get the feeling that SI/Sega are taking the hard nosed position & refusing to negotiate with other software houses when it come to purchasing a sub-licence agreement.

Konami make Pro Evo Soccer and SI couldn't buy the rights however much they try. Konami don't want to share them.

It's not just FM that have lost out.

SI cover a good number of leagues for which they have gained licenses for, so it's not through lack of effort.

Actually the fake Japanese team names currently in the game is very easily fixable like a like a click and a drag away, but we can't talk about such things in detail in these forums. So if that is that easy than the fake names situation would be just as easyt to fix. Again it's a matter of what the details are to Konami's rights to the J-League.

Also people need to understand already that Sega is a Japanese company where as eidos is an English one this means that Konami can't sue Eidos, but can do real damage to Sega. That's why the last CM with SI involved in it had the J-League and as soon as it was chnaged to FM with Sega the J-League was dropped this is also why CM still has the J-League however crappily done it may be. Now as others have pointed out if it where that easy SI would have done it already. All of this has been discussed extensively numerous times, but people still don;t seem to get it.

If SI are allowed to use the format of the league than I wouldn't mind having a fake league which wouldn't be as difficult to fix as some moght think

Originally posted by Doruk:

Also people need to understand already that Sega is a Japanese company where as eidos is an English one this means that Konami can't sue Eidos,

Of course Konami can take legal action against Eidos if they infringed their intellectual property rights, just because they are from a different country doesn't matter, they would just file proceedings in the country that Eidos are based in.

Originally posted by Barside:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doruk:

Also people need to understand already that Sega is a Japanese company where as eidos is an English one this means that Konami can't sue Eidos,

Of course Konami can take legal action against Eidos if they infringed their intellectual property rights, just because they are from a different country doesn't matter, they would just file proceedings in the country that Eidos are based in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than why don't they? How are eidos able to include the J-Leagues in their game even though they have no rights to the J-League license and SI stopped including the J-League once they switched over to Sega?

Originally posted by Doruk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barside:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doruk:

Also people need to understand already that Sega is a Japanese company where as eidos is an English one this means that Konami can't sue Eidos,

Of course Konami can take legal action against Eidos if they infringed their intellectual property rights, just because they are from a different country doesn't matter, they would just file proceedings in the country that Eidos are based in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than why don't they? How are eidos able to include the J-Leagues in their game even though they have no rights to the J-League license and SI stopped including the J-League once they switched over to Sega? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I understand it, Konami hold the rights to the league structure, logos, kits etc; but not the player data itself is held under image rights, rather than official licencing. Having the data there and displaying it with false names is something that Konami really wouldn't care about, because you can't play in the J-League, and so SI are not actively using/including any of the league and/or competiting with Konami.

I may be wrong.

Originally posted by Hershie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doruk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barside:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doruk:

Also people need to understand already that Sega is a Japanese company where as eidos is an English one this means that Konami can't sue Eidos,

Of course Konami can take legal action against Eidos if they infringed their intellectual property rights, just because they are from a different country doesn't matter, they would just file proceedings in the country that Eidos are based in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than why don't they? How are eidos able to include the J-Leagues in their game even though they have no rights to the J-League license and SI stopped including the J-League once they switched over to Sega? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I understand it, Konami hold the rights to the league structure, logos, kits etc; but not the player data itself, which is held under image rights, rather than official licencing. Having the data there and displaying it with false names is something that Konami really wouldn't care about, because you can't play in the J-League, and so SI are not actively using/including any of the league and/or competiting with Konami.

I may be wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed.

In addition, of course Konami could sue Eidos/SI for a breach of licence; works the same way as any universal licence I believe (copyright etc).

Konami manages to implement fake player and club names in Pro Evo 2008, therefore I don't see how it would be a problem to create a fake J-League.

Originally posted by Reggae Boyz:

Konami manages to implement fake player and club names in Pro Evo 2008, therefore I don't see how it would be a problem to create a fake J-League.

Would get rid of the 'as-real-as-possible' aspect of the game; would just be a standard league, with fake players. Why not just play the Premiership with fake players?

My point is that the J-League should be able to be included with realistic data. The names are the only thing that would need to be changed by using an LNC file similar to the Oliver Kahn file. This can easily be removed or edited.

Originally posted by Reggae Boyz:

My point is that the J-League should be able to be included with realistic data. The names are the only thing that would need to be changed by using an LNC file similar to the Oliver Kahn file. This can easily be removed or edited.

That's the thing; Konami can use fake names and real structure because the leagues other than Japan are not exclusivly held by one party. SI however cannot use the Japanese league structure, as Konami hold the exclusive rights. I think.

Ok, that explains it.

Originally posted by Reggae Boyz:

Ok, that explains it.

I'm not sure though; I'm only making assumptions. It makes enough sense though.

I still don´t get what´s the problem with getting the license.

I understand all the copyright issues but it would be natural to think that with all the money FM generates, added to the fact that the J-League isn´t a top League, so it´s appeal isn´t that big, it wouldn´t be that difficult to get the license.

I think the reason the don´t "fight" for it it´s because it´s just not worth it.

Originally posted by Eddiejay99:

I still don´t get what´s the problem with getting the license.

I understand all the copyright issues but it would be natural to think that with all the money FM generates, added to the fact that the J-League isn´t a top League, so it´s appeal isn´t that big, it wouldn´t be that difficult to get the license.

I think the reason the don´t "fight" for it it´s because it´s just not worth it.

Konami, being a Japanese company, are quite proud of being the licence-holders. The price would be far too high for SI if they even tried to buy it.

Surely if SI we allowed to use the format they would have already. It would only be a matter of days before a J-League Superpack was uploaded by someone on sortitoutsi or some other such site.

It still doesn't make any sense that Eidos continue to and are somehow allowed to include the J-League in the CM series and SI dropped it once they switched over to Sega.

GUYS! Those from Japan, please UNDERSTAND

SEGA has a J LEAGUE FOOTBALL MANAGER GAME!

http://img.tomgame.com/news/1000021421/20061215143304680.jpg

It's called CREATE A CLUB J-LEAGUE. SEGA has always had the J-league license.

DON'T BLAME KONAMI!

BTW, they've had it since the Dreamcast days, and the CREATE A CLUB lineup has 5 games in the series. I own 1 and 5, with 1 being a classic game. It's not very complicated, very Japanese colourful Sega game, but has legends such as Pele in the game that you can scout and sign.

Anyone that has played CREATE A CLUB J-LEAGUE definitely enjoys it. It's a SEGA ame.

If this is really the case than SI have no excuses for not icluding the J-League in FM 2009 anymore

Originally posted by Doruk:

If this is really the case than SI have no excuses for not icluding the J-League in FM 2009 anymore

Nonsense. They had to take it out for licencing issues; we can only speculate what these are.

Konami probably have the World Wide rights to the J-League, while in Japan itself no company can have a pure monopoly on the League.

Or maybe SEGA have an agreement with Konami which means they can only use the J-League for Japan only releases, so Konami have the exclusive use of it World Wide.

There's obviously A reason or they wouldn't have taken it out in the first place.

It just might be that Sega doesn't want their CREATE A CLUB franchise to be taken over by FM? But CREATE A CLUB is more like Fifa Manager, you have a personal female secretary you choose from a choice of many, you create your own club chant (choice of old Sega chants from Outrun, Afterburner, Sonic, etc. where the crowd chants the music), you start with your own club that you create yourself (your own club colours, logo, stadium, location) from the bottom of the league (a-la Dafuge challenge) .

It's a SUPER MEGA hit in Japan and has a 3d engine. Anyone that knows a bit of Japanese should definitely play it. There's some complicated financial issues like negotiating sponsorship, setting marketing prices, setting ticket prices. It's NOT as addicting as FM, the tactics aren't very complicated (4-4-2 is most reliable like in real life), you can speak to individual players about their performances, but it's really FUN....less technical than FM, but a lot of fun. Their J league data is VERY ACCURATE as well, well-done database.

The 5th version of CREATE a CLUB though, is quite complicated. It's been highly marketing by Roberto Baggio in Japan, and allows personalization of the player's clubhouse, player's stadium, etc. Some are eye-candy, but most of them improve player conditions, and increase the player's interest in joining your club.

The difficulty is WAY HARDER than FM though, you start with a bunch of BAD players on your team, making a few signings that would take a few years game time. You will lose many games in the beginning, but like in Dafuge, you actually bring them up until you win the Asian Champion's League.

If FM combined CREATE a CLUB's 3d match engine and the J League database, FM could definitely become what was meant to become.

Every match would be enjoyable to watch!

i would love to be able to get Bare (from gamba osaka) but can't because the stupid J-League isn't in the game. Bare is a brazilian player and does anyone know if i get get him any other way?

If Konami have world-wide right than how does Eidos get to include the J-League in their game? Again if Eidos has found a way around this problem there is no reason for SI not to be able to either.

If SI can release a version of FM in Japan that includes the J-League than they should I am sure many people would be wiling to pay the extra cash and import it. I know I would.

From what I understand despite being a management game "Create A Club" sounds like a very differemt experience compared to FM. The J-League's abscence is really taking away from the realism of FM.

Let's gather more support for the J-League and figure out what's the deal with SI not including it in the game.

Originally posted by Doruk:

If Konami have world-wide right than how does Eidos get to include the J-League in their game? Again if Eidos has found a way around this problem there is no reason for SI not to be able to either.

How have BGS implemented the J-League in CM though? I've not played, or even looked at the J-League in CM so I don't know myself. Is it in the correct format or is it in a made up format? Does it lack real players and teams? Is it illegally implemented, or have Eidos brokered a deal with Konami in order to include it?

Personally, I'd much rather have no J-League then a made up one.

I've found a link to a guy who created the J-League for FM2008 ... wondering if it'll work with FM2009

People who are saying a fake J-league in terms of player and club names is unrealistic - isn't having no japanese league with all greyed out players even more unrealistic??

Create the japanese league structure, with fake club names and player names just like in Konami's Pro Evo, with all the right info and stats for the clubs and players. Its then beyond SI's control if we choose to use the editor to change the names of the players.

No need to dig this back up and there is no likelihood of getting J-League in the near future.

Nor is discussins how to 'avoid' issues allowed here. Closing thread.