CAMRAD - CAMpaign for Really Awesome Dots (in FM10)

[SSGTroyer]

You really need to give a wrinkle/noise texture to your screenshot layer, 'cause that's just too obvious. Good idea for you dotheads, though.

I'd go for one with Parslow being smooshed by a 3D foot, though...

[crouchaldinho]

You really need to give a wrinkle/noise texture to your screenshot layer, 'cause that's just too obvious. Good idea for you dotheads, though.

What? :confused:

[crouchaldinho]

T-shirts for CAMRAD:

This is more like it:

Bigger shot of the front.

Just bringing them on to the new page so nobody misses them.

[MisTicO_]

I like to burn dots with a magnifying glass!

[SSGTroyer]

You really need to give a wrinkle/noise texture to your screenshot layer, 'cause that's just too obvious. Good idea for you dotheads, though.

What? :confused:

Oh, that's right. You're putting this on an online teeshirt creator, not photoshopping a base image of a guy-in-a-shirt.

Here, I whipped this slight change up...just so it doesn't look quite so "fake." Still looks fake, though, just not as fakey...

[crouchaldinho]

Oh, I see what you mean now. Sort of faded in the central image. Cheers.

[cynet]

No. They are not 2005. They were created in 2005, but they are still commonly used amongst the members of this forums and people who play FM.

Fwiw, it lags on my FM10 .

If people updated the systems or drivers and they wont have lag on 3d option of the game and if you have a good working computer your see the benefits of the 3d match engine and how much better it is than the out dated 2d option.

[crouchaldinho]

If people updated the systems or drivers and they wont have lag on 3d option of the game and if you have a good working computer your see the benefits of the 3d match engine and how much better it is than the out dated 2d option.

I don't think it is much better than 2D actually.

And 2D is not 'dated' at all. A top down view such as that of 2D allows you to see far more than the scrolling 3D options.

Personally, I cannot see what 3D offers me that 2D doesn't. How is it 'much better' than 2d?

Regards,

C.

[crouchaldinho]

Cons of 3D:

1) Takes an age to setup for each match.

2) Scrolls like your watching television.

3) Is actually quite jerky.

4) You cannot see the whole pitch at the same time.

5) Positioning of players is more difficult to see compared to 2D.

6) Poor performance on 'lower' spec computers.

7) Doesn't actually add anything visually that you cannot work out from the 2D.

8) Even with the new animations, it's so far from looking realistic that it's not even funny.

9) FM used to come on a CD and take up about a quarter of the space. Now it comes on a DVD and takes up around 2GB!

10) The stadiums, pitches, goal nets etc. all look so identikit, I just don't see the point at all.

3D, in my opinion, just makes the game look cartoonish.

I'd personally rather SI worked on making the engine as good as it possibly can be and stopped messing around with stadiums and other nonsense. FM is a simulation as much as it is a game and it ought to run well on my laptop. I shouldn't need a gaming PC for it.

FM is about depth and not shallow features. At least it always has been this way.

However, it looks as though 3D is here to stay. But we at CAMRAD are campaigning for 2D classic to be given just as much priority.

2D Classic is the soul of the game in my opinion, giving enough information but crucially allowing for that imagination factor.

Regards,

C.

[Lumitchski]

cons of 3d:

1) takes an age to setup for each match.

2) scrolls like your watching television.

3) is actually quite jerky.

4) you cannot see the whole pitch at the same time.

5) positioning of players is more difficult to see compared to 2d.

6) poor performance on 'lower' spec computers.

7) doesn't actually add anything visually that you cannot work out from the 2d.

8) even with the new animations, it's so far from looking realistic that it's not even funny.

9) fm used to come on a cd and take up about a quarter of the space. Now it comes on a dvd and takes up around 2gb!

10) the stadiums, pitches, goal nets etc. All look so identikit, i just don't see the point at all.

3d, in my opinion, just makes the game look cartoonish.

I'd personally rather si worked on making the engine as good as it possibly can be and stopped messing around with stadiums and other nonsense. Fm is a simulation as much as it is a game and it ought to run well on my laptop. I shouldn't need a gaming pc for it.

Fm is about depth and not shallow features. At least it always has been this way.

however, it looks as though 3d is here to stay. But we at camrad are campaigning for 2d classic to be given just as much priority.

2d classic is the soul of the game in my opinion, giving enough information but crucially allowing for that imagination factor.

Regards,

c.

nail on head!!

[cynet]

My problem is that i like watching players on a pitch and the dots dont float my boat, like watching sky sports watching people run round the pitch is more satisfying if it was just dots.

The 3d in fm10 is much approved over fm09 version and give it a few more years and things will get better and better with the 3d, dont think they will remove the 2d there will always be that choice.

[crouchaldinho]

My problem is that i like watching players on a pitch and the dots dont float my boat, like watching sky sports watching people run round the pitch is more satisfying if it was just dots.

That's one place where we differ. I hate Sky Sports.

The 3d in fm10 is much approved over fm09 version

Much approved by who? :confused:

and give it a few more years and things will get better and better with the 3d, dont think they will remove the 2d there will always be that choice.

I just can't see the attraction in 3D. I worry that it's going to keep developing to the point where I won't be able to even play the game properly. There is no way I'll be buying a 'gaming' machine to replace a good old laptop that can double up as a work PC. I'm just not interested in games.

I do think that the 2D will always be there and I hope it will always take some priority too. It shouldn't all be about stadiums and all that rot!

I think it will be the same situation as last year. People will love the 3D for the first few weeks and then they will all switch to 2D classic again after growing weary of it. Then we'll have ourselves some new CAMRAD members.

Regards,

C.

[Dazza]

Get a Grip you guys its a game of which we all have preferences how we like to play it.

Gosh I wish I was still sat playing Championship Manager as it was on my Amiga, Waiting ages for end of season to complete and reading limited commentary matches, with all my mates managing their team at same time and waiting for them to complete their turn.

But Hey a few steps forward and we have pc's with more memory on the graphics card than the Amiga had in its system and you guys sit moaning about the inclusion of 3D over 2D dots.???!!!!

The game has moved on and is moving on all the time, yes 3D isn't perfect but it is just another view of the Match Engine.

You can watch your games with or without dots, as commentary only, or in 3D it don't matter its your choice. I mean how many people play games on fast setting and just show highlights???? Does this give you an in depth view of tactics???? would Alex Ferguson just watch Match of The Day instead of watching the Match??

Simply Select how you want to play the game and stop Moaning about other options included.

SI have Development teams, just because they are developing 3D, don't mean that the game is standing still, Other people are doing other things at the same time and it all comes together around October every year in the form FM10/11/12 etc. Multi tasking eh!!! where was we until that was invented eh!! MS-DOS anyone??!!! How I loved that.

PC's are available for £300 quid which is plenty powerfull to run FM10 on full graphics settings.

Oh my god its my birthday soon I don't want to be a year older I like this one, Now where's my AMIGA LOL

[ism-scfc]

Cons of 3D:

1) Takes an age to setup for each match. It doesn't

2) Scrolls like your watching television well? Thats a pro rather than a con

3) Is actually quite jerky Not on my very average PC

4) You cannot see the whole pitch at the same time You only need to see where the ball is

5) Positioning of players is more difficult to see compared to 2D Disagree unless you are very very thick or not football minded, you can understand the positioning

6) Poor performance on 'lower' spec computers My computer is a bit crap really (integrated graphics etc.), and it works pretty well

7) Doesn't actually add anything visually that you cannot work out from the 2D I don't sit at Edgeley Park/other League One ground every week and watch dots glide around a pitch. 3D looks real, 2D does not.

8) Even with the new animations, it's so far from looking realistic that it's not even funny Well however far off realistic it looks, it is always going to look better than 2D

9) FM used to come on a CD and take up about a quarter of the space. Now it comes on a DVD and takes up around 2GB! well, basically if your PC doesn't have a DVD drive and 2GB memory, it probably won't run FM10 anyway

10) The stadiums, pitches, goal nets etc. all look so identikit, I just don't see the point at all I love them all. They give the stadium an atmosphere something that is impossible with 2D.

I fail to see how you can complain that 3D doesn't look realistic when you sit there watching dots. Its the kind of thing an 80 year old technophobe does. The superior technology is there so why the **** not use it? And before you say it isn't superior, it clearly is because the idea of football graphics is to as accurately as possible make it look like a real football game. Fm's 3D doesn't do that perfectly, but it does it 10000000000000000000000000% better than 2D.

..........

[crouchaldinho]

Dazza, that's the worst post I've ever read and, while we're at it, one question mark or exclamation mark is more than enough at any one time!!!!!!!11

[arsenal_2111]

4) You cannot see the whole pitch at the same time You only need to see where the ball is

Your whole post was pretty ridiculous, but that point especially. If you really think that the only thing that matters in football is what's happening on the ball, could I politely suggest you start watching netball instead?

[crouchaldinho]

1) Takes an age to setup for each match. It doesn't

It takes a long time for me, especially compared to 2D mode.

2) Scrolls like your watching television well? Thats a pro rather than a con

I hate watching football on television, so, no it definitely is a con.

3) Is actually quite jerky Not on my very average PC

Good for you. It's jerky for me.

4) You cannot see the whole pitch at the same time You only need to see where the ball is

Are you joking?

Absolute rubbish!

Only someone who is 'very very thick' or 'not football minded' would say such a thing... oh wait, you're about to try to patronise me by saying the same thing...

5) Positioning of players is more difficult to see compared to 2D Disagree unless you are very very thick or not football minded, you can understand the positioning

Kind of rude really and coming from a ball watcher.

I didn't say that I couldn't understand the positioning, I just said that positioning of players is easier to see when using 2D. That's why many coaches use 2D technology to check on their team's movement.

6) Poor performance on 'lower' spec computers My computer is a bit crap really (integrated graphics etc.), and it works pretty well

Again, I'm pleased for you, but it doesn't work very well on mine.

7) Doesn't actually add anything visually that you cannot work out from the 2D I don't sit at Edgeley Park/other League One ground every week and watch dots glide around a pitch. 3D looks real, 2D does not.

In my opinion, it doesn't look like real football at all. Plus, what you've written doesn't actually answer my point or make sense in relation to it!

8) Even with the new animations, it's so far from looking realistic that it's not even funny Well however far off realistic it looks, it is always going to look better than 2D

No.

9) FM used to come on a CD and take up about a quarter of the space. Now it comes on a DVD and takes up around 2GB! well, basically if your PC doesn't have a DVD drive and 2GB memory, it probably won't run FM10 anyway

What?

10) The stadiums, pitches, goal nets etc. all look so identikit, I just don't see the point at all I love them all. They give the stadium an atmosphere something that is impossible with 2D.

What's wrong with using your imagination?

I fail to see how you can complain that 3D doesn't look realistic when you sit there watching dots. Its the kind of thing an 80 year old technophobe does. The superior technology is there so why the **** not use it? And before you say it isn't superior, it clearly is because the idea of football graphics is to as accurately as possible make it look like a real football game. Fm's 3D doesn't do that perfectly, but it does it 10000000000000000000000000% better than 2D.

How could you possibly miss the point more?

Second worst post I've ever read.

Regards,

C.

[crouchaldinho]

Your whole post was pretty ridiculous, but that point especially. If you really think that the only thing that matters in football is what's happening on the ball, could I politely suggest you start watching netball instead?

Thank goodness there is someone with a bit of footballing sense in this thread!

[Suzie MUFC]

Still stumped as to why people who hate 2D would want to waste their time telling us why we should hate it as well in a dedicated 2D thread?

We love 2D. Nobody is going to change our minds by telling us why they don't like it.

[ism-scfc]

Your whole post was pretty ridiculous, but that point especially. If you really think that the only thing that matters in football is what's happening on the ball, could I politely suggest you start watching netball instead?

No, that was not what I was trying to say. I apologise if it came across that way. When you watch a football game, all (or at least most) of the eyes of the fans within the stadium are focused upon the area of the field at which the ball is at that moment. Therefore, the camera in FM focuses on the ball.

It takes a long time for me, especially compared to 2D mode.

If your patience is that short, I suggest you go and see a doctor

I hate watching football on television, so, no it definitely is a con.

Ok, forget the TV for a moment. When you actually watch a game, your view pans from side to side depending on where the ball is at that moment. I don't watch many games from 10,000 feet up, from where 2D might actually be a realistic view.

Good for you. It's jerky for me.

Processor, Graphics card, Ram?

Are you joking?

Absolute rubbish!

Only someone who is 'very very thick' or 'not football minded' would say such a thing... oh wait, you're about to try to patronise me by saying the same thing...

No, as I have explained above. And I'm not patronsing anyone. I wasn't calling you in particular anything, as I don't do that kind of thing. I was using those terms as a generalisation

Kind of rude really and coming from a ball watcher.

I didn't say that I couldn't understand the positioning, I just said that positioning of players is easier to see when using 2D. That's why many coaches use 2D technology to check on their team's movement.

Ok. You want to understand what went wrong when Histon score a poor goal past your all conquering Arsenal team? Go back and look at the 2D, like a coach would. I personally do that. But don't watch the whole bloody match in it. I don't see any managers at all, never mind top ones, sitting in a room watching a 2D representation instead of watching the game live because it might help them understand the positioning. If you don't understand it first, you shouldn't be a bloody manager should you;)

Again, I'm pleased for you, but it doesn't work very well on mine.

Care to explain the problem? Have you tried it with FM10?

In my opinion, it doesn't look like real football at all. Plus, what you've written doesn't actually answer my point or make sense in relation to it!

Well it does. From any view, little 3D graphics that look like people is a better representation of what we see every saturday than dots.

No.

Yes.

What?

If your computer doesn't have a DVD Drive and around 2GB Ram, it is unlikely to be capable of running FM10. I don't think that is too difficult to understand

What's wrong with using your imagination?

Nothing, but why should I when the technology is there so that I don't have to, or I at least have to use it less

How could you possibly miss the point more?

Second worst post I've ever read.

Regards,

C.

As you think I've 'missed the point', would you please like to explain your point in normal English, using none of the feeble arguments above and also none of the arrogant, deluded '2D is better than 3D because...erm...erm...erm' type of crap

Still stumped as to why people who hate 2D would want to waste their time telling us why we should hate it as well in a dedicated 2D thread?

We love 2D. Nobody is going to change our minds by telling us why they don't like it.

Firstly, I don't hate 2D. Just like I don't hate candles because we now have electric lights and I don't hate black and white TV's because we now have colour ones. Up to FM08, 2D was great. From FM09 onwards however, the new thing was 3D, which provided a clearer, more realistic view of the action. This doesn't mean that I hate the old system, just that I prefer, and choose to use the new one:)

Secondly, this is a discussion forum. The purpose of it is to provoke discussion. If what you want is a closed 'We all love 2D' community, then there are plenty of free website hosts around. However, you chose to post this thread on a forum, which means that people with differing opinions to yours are free to offer them. Besides, the world would be a boring place if we all had the same opinions:D

[crouchaldinho]

No, that was not what I was trying to say. I apologise if it came across that way. When you watch a football game, all (or at least most) of the eyes of the fans within the stadium are focused upon the area of the field at which the ball is at that moment. Therefore, the camera in FM focuses on the ball.

I'm not playing the game as a fan. I'm playing the game as a manager!

As you think I've 'missed the point', would you please like to explain your point in normal English, using none of the feeble arguments above and also none of the arrogant, deluded '2D is better than 3D because...erm...erm...erm' type of crap

Seriously, is this the best response you could come up with?

Laughable really.

Regards,

C.

[crouchaldinho]

Firstly, I don't hate 2D. Just like I don't hate candles because we now have electric lights and I don't hate black and white TV's because we now have colour ones.

Seriously poor use of metaphor.

So to sum up your argument here, you're saying that 3D is better because it is newer than 2D? Hilarious!

Do you really think that this is a valid point in any way, shape or form? Do I really have to pick holes in it so that you can understand why this is just stupid?

Up to FM08, 2D was great. From FM09 onwards however, the new thing was 3D, which provided a clearer, more realistic view of the action.

Subjective and actually, I would argue, also false.

This doesn't mean that I hate the old system, just that I prefer, and choose to use the new one

Good for you. That's your choice. It doesn't mean that it is the right choice.

Secondly, this is a discussion forum. The purpose of it is to provoke discussion. If what you want is a closed 'We all love 2D' community, then there are plenty of free website hosts around. However, you chose to post this thread on a forum, which means that people with differing opinions to yours are free to offer them. Besides, the world would be a boring place if we all had the same opinions

Quite. However, I think that we have very different views of what discussion actually consists of. Your idea of discussion is to state your opinion as if it is fact. If there is one thing I cannot stand on this forum, it is idiots like yourself coming in and posting up their poorly thought out opinion as if it is the truth.

If you want to have a discussion, try to do it in a mature and polite way. Give firm opinions backed up with evidence. Argue the point but do so with respect for others.

Essentially, to sum up what has happened here: you've come in with your size 9s and suggested that I'm 'very very thick' or 'not football minded' because I stated my opinion that 2D is more enjoyable for me than 3D. You've then made a total idiot of yourself with your argument regarding 'ball watching'. Following that, you ignored all of my responses to your ridiculous post by, quite brilliantly, ignoring everything I said! This is the last refuge of the idiot.

Quite frankly, this is not a discussion. The fact is that you have made yourself look like a total prat. Your posts are poorly thought out 'this is the fact' statements, without reading any of the previous posts in this thread and without even thinking or engaging the brain for one second.

Now I really must end this exchange because people like you have a habit of making me do this:

Regards,

C.

[Suzie MUFC]

Secondly, this is a discussion forum. The purpose of it is to provoke discussion. If what you want is a closed 'We all love 2D' community, then there are plenty of free website hosts around. However, you chose to post this thread on a forum, which means that people with differing opinions to yours are free to offer them. Besides, the world would be a boring place if we all had the same opinions:D

I know it's a discussion forum, and I shouldn't even have to say that really. If I didn't know it was a discussion forum, then there would have to be something very wrong with me.

It's when people come into a thread, and not discuss, but tell people the only reason they like something is because they don't have the hardware to make something work properly, or because we're stuck in the stone age, or that we don't have the brains to see that the other way is better for us, and that we don't know any better and so therefore we must be stupid. It's insulting.

[crouchaldinho]

Thinking of promoting Suzie within CAMRAD now.

[William Hall]

Dots ftw

Where can you get a CAMRAD shirt from in Australia

[crouchaldinho]

I'll ship you one William Hall!

[benji!!!!!]

I've tried 3d, but I've reverted once again to the epicness of 2d classic. May I hany happy memories of Michael Kightly tearing full backs to shreds.

[Suzie MUFC]

Thinking of promoting Suzie within CAMRAD now.

Ooh, am I getting an extra stripe, Sarge?

[Lillywhite]

I'm anti 3D as well. They've got to sell the game though and make money, and they know better than us what they need to do to maximize their profits.

I have yet to play 3D, however, and think it is worthless. I support the dots!

[crouchaldinho]

Ooh, am I getting an extra stripe, Sarge?

Definitely, for services to CAMRAD. I'll be in touch.

[SCIAG]

Go on then Mr Stoke City , what does 3D show you that 2D doesn't?

[ism-scfc]

I'm not playing the game as a fan. I'm playing the game as a manager!

Same applies. The manager spends most of his time looking at the ball

Seriously poor use of metaphor.

So to sum up your argument here, you're saying that 3D is better because it is newer than 2D? Hilarious!

Nope, wrong again. I'm saying it is better because it is more advanced, not because it is newer

Good for you. That's your choice. It doesn't mean that it is the right choice.

And neither did I say that it was. That's the impression that you give however. You seem to think you are on some sort of moral high ground because you use 2D. Good for you, it is you that loses out, not those of us who decide to use the best available technology

Quite. However, I think that we have very different views of what discussion actually consists of. Your idea of discussion is to state your opinion as if it is fact.

Shall I insert a disclaimer here? All the views put across during this and all subsequent posts are 100% the opinion of ism-scfc, and in no way represent the opinions of Sports Interactive, any other forum users, or are necessarily fact. Happy now?

If there is one thing I cannot stand on this forum, it is idiots like yourself coming in and posting up their poorly thought out opinion as if it is the truth.

For the last f**king time, I do not claim that my opinions are necessarily fact. Do you know the difference between fact and opinion? I think a return to Primary school beckons for you Mr. Crouchaldinho

If you want to have a discussion, try to do it in a mature and polite way. Give firm opinions backed up with evidence. Argue the point but do so with respect for others.

I believe I have done so. If you think otherwise please heed your own advice and provide evidence

Essentially, to sum up what has happened here: you've come in with your size 9s and suggested that I'm 'very very thick' or 'not football minded' because I stated my opinion that 2D is more enjoyable for me than 3D. You've then made a total idiot of yourself with your argument regarding 'ball watching'. Following that, you ignored all of my responses to your ridiculous post by, quite brilliantly, ignoring everything I said! This is the last refuge of the idiot.

As I stated above, I am NOT calling you very very thick or not football minded. However, I do think that you may have a problem comprehending what you read if you think that those comments were directly aimed at you:rolleyes:

Quite frankly, this is not a discussion. The fact is that you have made yourself look like a total prat. Your posts are poorly thought out 'this is the fact' statements, without reading any of the previous posts in this thread and without even thinking or engaging the brain for one second.

Fact? I think the aforementioned lesson on fact and opinion is required

Now I really must end this exchange because people like you have a habit of making me do this:

Yes, thank you for the (un)funny graphic. I'm currently creased up laughing:rolleyes:

Regards,

C.

I know it's a discussion forum, and I shouldn't even have to say that really. If I didn't know it was a discussion forum, then there would have to be something very wrong with me.

It's when people come into a thread, and not discuss, but tell people the only reason they like something is because they don't have the hardware to make something work properly, or because we're stuck in the stone age, or that we don't have the brains to see that the other way is better for us, and that we don't know any better and so therefore we must be stupid. It's insulting.

Sorry, but I haven't done any of those things:

i) I haven't told you that I like anything because I don't have the hardware to make something work properly, and I have absolutely no idea where you get that Idea from:confused:

ii) I don't think that you're stuck in the stone age, just that you are taking the poor (imo) decision to not use the available technology

iii) I'm not questioning your intelligence either. We all make mistakes, and I just think that this decision is one of yours. Note the word think, which indicates that it is my OPINION

[Jamie543]

crouchaldinho

I didnt like the 3d feature when 09 first came out as i found it used to stick but since the demo of 10 i have found it much better it doesnt glitch as much and ive not got a great graphics card either. I dont see the point in this thread all it sounds like is you want it removed as your system is no longer capable of running the game well news flash technology changes you either move with the time or get left behind

[crouchaldinho]

My 4,000th post and it had to be in the CAMRAD thread. \o/

[crouchaldinho]

Same applies. The manager spends most of his time looking at the ball

Look, we can't get past the point that the manager doesn't watch the match on television. He looks at the whole pitch, not a scrolling section of it following the ball. He watches his team's shape, he looks at positioning. In other words, he studies many things off the ball. You are just wrong on this one. The sooner you accept it, the better for us all.

And good one on ignoring the rest of my post.

crouchaldinho

I didnt like the 3d feature when 09 first came out as i found it used to stick but since the demo of 10 i have found it much better it doesnt glitch as much and ive not got a great graphics card either. I dont see the point in this thread all it sounds like is you want it removed as your system is no longer capable of running the game well news flash technology changes you either move with the time or get left behind

Can you read? Obviously not.

Where do these people come from? :confused:

C.

[Jamie543]

crouchaldinho

well about 3 of your complaints seemed to be about performance which as far as i can see from the demo of fm10 has improved greatly and if your still having the performance problems your system isnt capable of running the game

[crouchaldinho]

crouchaldinho

well about 3 of your complaints seemed to be about performance

I've made it pretty clear that performance is only part of the reason I prefer 2D Classic.

]if your still having the performance problems your system isnt capable of running the game

Incorrect. People who cannot run the 3D will have no problems running the game with 2D Classic.

Regards,

C.

[Jamie543]

crouchaldinho

Quote:

]if your still having the performance problems your system isnt capable of running the game

Incorrect. People who cannot run the 3D will have no problems running the game with 2D Classic.

then what is the problem then? they still have the game to play

[SCIAG]

Why do some managers watch matches from the stands? That's right, to get as close to a top-down view as practical.

[crouchaldinho]

then what is the problem then? they still have the game to play

Please read some of the posts in this thread. Start with the opening post.

Thanks,

C.

[Suzie MUFC]

i) I haven't told you that I like anything because I don't have the hardware to make something work properly, and I have absolutely no idea where you get that Idea from:confused:

ii) I don't think that you're stuck in the stone age, just that you are taking the poor (imo) decision to not use the available technology

iii) I'm not questioning your intelligence either. We all make mistakes, and I just think that this decision is one of yours. Note the word think, which indicates that it is my OPINION

i) I said "people", I wasn't aiming this specifically at you.

ii) I win more games with 2D. That is not a poor decision. Why do I win more games? Because I can see everything that's happening. You don't watch the ball, you watch the positioning of your players. For instance, I tried 3D and I started leaking goals and I couldn't see why. It was only when I switched to 2D that I could see my fullbacks were straying out of position while the ball was in the other half of the pitch (hence why the camera wasn't showing it) and getting caught out on the break. A few clicks of the sliders and this was corrected. I would never have known this if I'd stayed in 3D.

iii) My decision to play a game in a manner which helps me become more successful is a mistake?

[Mopreme]

Im in for the campaign the dots rule

[grade]

For example why I still prefer 2D "Classic"

I have season tickets for SLBenfica and I'm located in level 0 (the stadium has 3 levels, the 0 which is ground floor, the the first level, the second level where the VIP section is located and then high up there is level 3).

Two months ago, I went with few friends to pre-season match against Milan, I end up in level 3, thinking the oh grate I will not see squat since we can't see which players are which in each team. Instead we all where jaw dropping when from way up there , actually saw the tactical side in motion. To be honest now the reply I like to see on TV is from the camera above the field.

Also I have personal hate of the 3D because they are dropping two of the things I thought as basic feature in FM Series in detriment of the new technology, just because the other rival games had 3D. The first was the Kit thing in the information window on match (where it showed who scored, who was expelled and who got injured), the Second is the switch between Information window and the showing key moments of the match (Like FM05, FM06, FM07 and FM08).

Also in my opinion using the team that made Actua Soccer as base of the 3D, was bad move, because we where talking a game that was developed for ten years at least (not sure if it was Actua Soccer, but that is the word on these forums). Of course graphics where ***** in the introduction of FM09 and to be honest they have a late 90's game, for the specs that FM09 requires perhaps FM10.

To be honest I might go for FM10, but the game still feels unfinished and I blame myself, because if I was part of Beta tester team I would nag SI team with those over and over and over again. They might wouldn't listen, like now.

So the end this tedious post, I feel that the 3D is shoving other conflicting features out of the way by force just for the sake to work without a glitch. I have terrible feeling that if some new upgrade to 3D crates a glitch with 2D, SI will shove 2D out of the way, in heart beat.

[Dazza]

Dazza, that's the worst post I've ever read and, while we're at it, one question mark or exclamation mark is more than enough at any one time!!!!!!!11

Think you need to be buying subbuteo not FM10 mate!

My ZX81 didn't have colour and struggled so I bought a ZX Spectrum, that same computer struggled so I bought a ZX Spectrum 128, Low and behold after a while that too struggled and I bought a Commodore 64, After a short while I bought a Commodore Amiga, Then a Commodore Amiga A1200, Low and behold these started struggling too as technology progressed, I found myself with a Sony Playstation, Then a PS2 oh low and behold even that struggled and now I have a PS3.

In the mean time my pc progressed from a floppy disc based MSDOS machine into the Windows Vista quad core I have now.

Why?? because I moved with the times thats why. My kids play on hand held consoles more powerful than some of the business machines I operated 20 years ago.

Amazing stuff really considering all you want is dots. Maybe you should go out and buy a PSP, that version has the 2D engine at the core of its functionality and surely would be more suited to you guys Campaigning for Dots than the technologically advanced PC version.

No doubt you all complain when the premier league scores on the opening day of FM season don't match what happened IRL too?

I for one would like to thank SI for continually developing FM throughout the years despite some very poor non constructive critisism from some users of this forum. Yes FM has some issues, Yes it ain't perfect for everyone but it is by far the Best Football Management game on the market and will no doubt progress from strength to strength in the years to come.

I for one can't wait for the 3D glasses to be included in FM20 when I can feel like I'm on the touchline LOL

[Crab Lungs]

count me in on the dots campaign!

[dafuge]

Go on then Mr Stoke City , what does 3D show you that 2D doesn't?

Good goals

[crouchaldinho]

Dafuge, any chance you would upload your January goal in 2D Classic as I'm curious to see it in that mode so I can compare.

[dafuge]

Dafuge, any chance you would upload your January goal in 2D Classic as I'm curious to see it in that mode so I can compare.

I don't have the game any more (it was on my old laptop which died). I'm trying to find if someone else has it though, so I might be able to do it.

[crowsus]

Ive only played a few matches on the FM10 demo, hoping the patch might improve a few of the more glaring 3D graphics errors but i totally see where you guys are coming from, there is a big element of imagination in CM/FM anyway and the 3D engine at present is pretty far from being anything close to a realistic interpretation of a football match. I do think it will be improved year-on-year and will probably be impressive in FM14 perhaps, but the development of that feature should not take precedence over the actual gameplay.

2D should always remain, not just as a low-spec option but as a genuine alternative to 3D depending on the players' preference. 2D should also not be a slave to 3D and reflect its odd,still-new characteristics. FM08 had a perfectly acceptable 2D engine. Never played FM09 at all so cant comment on the first 3D pitch and its dot equivalent - this year's Classic 2D mode looks alright at first glance though?

I may not get sick of 3D at all. I may dislike it more and more in the longer term because you can't see the tactics on the pitch very well, or because the stadiums and pitches are annoying in their uniformity, or because the player movements and incidents are poorly-designed and lacking in variety, or because I find that a simplistic representation of the match is preferrable to a poor version of reality. If any of those scenarios do come to pass I will be using the 2D Classic view and will back on here to enthusiastically proclaim my support for CAMRAD and all it represents. I have a feeling i will be back here! But i'll give 3D a chance...

[Agbonlahor4England]

Inspired by this thread I watched my last couple demo games back in 2D mode. It was great! Again you get to see your tactics in much better view and although the 3D runs great on my laptop...I always kind have missed the imagination part when I watched 3D as you can see exactly what happened, 2D is more left up to the imagination, which some people don't like....but I do.

Sign me up for CAMRAD!