4-4-1-1 A very flexible tactic and the long term development.

[Djuicer]

4-4-1-1 A very flexible tactic.

Hello, this is my first post after years of lurking. I first wrote it in swedish then i translated it with google (Im lazy yes). Then i tried to fix some small errors but there might still be some of them left. Other parts will be written in English and even if its not my native language I hope it will be better flowing.

 

This thread is quite long now, so I have collected all the posts here!

Post 2 Inverted wing-back and inverted winger.

Post 3 Attacking midfielder.

Post 4 Winger + mentalities.

Post 5 Central midfielder + 4-4-1-1 Arguments.

Post 6 Deep lying playmaker.

Post 7 Summary of roles + more.

 

I also started a new series about positonal play.

Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?

 

 

Stylistically, I (as a Man U) fan have always liked the direct 4-4-2 that Sir Alex Ferguson's first teams used (arguably 4-4-1-1 with Cantona). They focused mainly on wing play for the creation of opportunities and played a relatively direct style. Later, I was obviously amazed by Pep Guardiola and his Jugo De Position,overloads and diagonal movements. The most recent manager that influenced me was Jürgen Klopp and his Dortmund, who won the german league two years in a row and made it to the final in the Champions League. Klopp's team was known for its extreme counterpressing (gegenpressing) where they then tried to attack at high speed once the possession was won.

 

The goal is to succeed in creating something that is a hybrid and with some influence from the best of them different styles. Of course, compromises will have to be made as I only play in a second division (at the moment). The pace and the length of the pass is something that I would really like to have balanced / standard but with better players (or that the current squad is developing) it should probably go away eventually. For now I have decided that I will start with these instructions for the team.

 

The mentality is positive which is the first one that is "offensive" and the 5 out of 7 different where 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 goes from most defensive (1) to most attacking (7). It will, in turn, increase our playing width, tempo, passing directness, LoE, back line, press to slightly higher than standard. That is the whole basis of our game. After that, some adjustments are made to squad quailty and to get to the overall style I want to create. I Would like to have possession but not for the sake of it, press high but not too high, other instructions are to complement this. I try to stay away from extremes.

 

So, I had to start somewhere and I didn't want to start in an top divison. The Premier Leauge has always been the "league for me" so I started looking for suitable teams in the Championship. Fulham with Mawson, Cairney and Mitrovic had enough ability to create a style of play that I was comfortable with. To increase the challenge, I tried to stick to players from the Nordic countries, Great Britain & Ireland, Brazil and Argentina (cause FLAIR). Thus, a large sale was initiated. Tried at all costs to get rid of players who did not meet these criteria.

 

After that, a little more interesting phase began as I tried to strengthen the squad for this year's challenges.

 

Most acquisitions are for the future and squad depth, but a few offer something from the start. Among others, the 22-year-old  lightning fast forward from Blackburn Adam Armstrong.

 

Well-rounded midfielder James Garner from Manchester United who came on loan will also get a lot of playing time.

 

Other key players, as previously mentioned, include Alfie Mawson, a so-called ballplaying defender.

 

Cairney is easiest to describe as a classic playmaker with good flair, technicals and vision.

 

Our third designated key player Mitrovic, a physical phenomen that also possesses surprisingly good techique and touch for a lad of his size.

 

As a base, I start to build from the back with 2 regular roles (fullback and central defender) and 3 more specialized roles (sweeper keeper, ball playing defender and inverted wingback). The idea behind this is that the Sweeper keeper is important to be able to build possession from the back, the regular full back to the right will overlap every now and then, the ball playing defender will help the SK to build out from the back. The regular center defender should primarily defend and only add short simple passes to the more technically gifted players around him (IWB, BPD)

 

The inverted wing back is very important to start building the game deep, he will also occasionally appear in the opponsitions penalty area to end the attacks or make killer balls into the penalty area. This happens because the player gets an attacking mentality when I use "look for underlap" on the left. This player is almost playing like a marauding playmaker and is one of the most important roles in my system.

 

The player in question who currently holds this role is Joe Bryan. Here there is plenty of room for a better player to have a greater impact on the team. Dwight Mcneil would be a quality signing for this, originally a winger but with 12 tackle, 10 marking and 11 positioning he is already a capable defender who has a lot of room for development.

(Joe Bryan)

 

The regular full back is a basic role (zero preset pi’s) and it can look very different depending on who is playing there. UNE (Jakob Une Larsson) makes the role very safe and secure and often thinks of the defensive side of the game in the first place.

(UNE)

If Cyrus Christie or Rankin-Costello plays, it will be much more buzzing. Christie (and Costello) because of his traits will be much more attacking in his interpretation of the role. Often advancing further up the pitch and when he plays it is almost like having two inverted wing backs at times.

(Christie)

 

The midfield is pretty basic and doesn't have that much finesse but hard work and grit is most important.  I Would like to have great physical players centrally in the field. On the wings I like to see a classic winger (fast) on one side and one more “Arjen Robben (not because Robben was not fast) inspired” on the other. Something else is that in the middle field I handed out my first PI or personal instructions and that I have done to all players, they are all told to "push more" which the defenders do not have. This is to create a so-called "split block" as one half of the team pushes higher up the pitch and the other half of the team is standing off and more trying to steer the opponents out of dangerous areas. The exception that confirms the rule is the defensive midfielder, which I count to he defensive part of my split block. So, pressing we have midfield and forward except cmd. Low pressing we have cmd and defense.

 

The defensive midfielder also has some other PIs so he looks as follows. Since the mentality is careful, I have increased the pass length to direct, then I have instructed the defensive midfielder not to dribble. This is because the defensive midfielder is rarely good at just this but also to speed up the game a bit as I would rather see a quick pass to a more technical player.

 

The offensive is largely handled by two players where one is thought to be a link between the lone striker and the rest of the team. The spearhead should try to create as much disarray as possible for the opponents. An APA (advanced playmaker attack) links the play less than an APS and an AF is the striker who is most willing to move into channels and pull apart the opponent's defense. Combined with Mitrovic's ability to play with the back towards goal, I think the mix between the role and the "traits" will be perfect and it will be as a combination between several roles. Thoose two also are included in the pressing block and have thus been given this personal instruction (pressure more). When Armstrong plays at the top, the opponents often have problems with his high pace and they often have to adjust their back line to get control of him, or else he will probably score.

 

The whole tactic thus looks like this:

 

my preferred eleven is this:

 

Next part I will try to analyse this and see how it plays out (and show some results). Also i will discuss some development and future plans.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Djuicer
Positive is the fifth menality not fourth..

[Vizzini]

This was a well thought out post and should be getting more attention. I really like how you presented the information in such a measured way, and I think the setup looks quite sound. What is the thinking behind the "slowing down" and "lower tempo" tactical instruction? I am really looking forward to reading the next part.

[Djuicer]

9 hours ago, Vizzini said:

This was a well thought out post and should be getting more attention. I really like how you presented the information in such a measured way, and I think the setup looks quite sound. What is the thinking behind the "slowing down" and "lower tempo" tactical instruction? I am really looking forward to reading the next part.

Thanks for the feedback! I have started on Pt2 but atm Its some days off to be completed (also weekend  incoming, spending time with gf etc). Not really sure how to present it but I will get there soon enough. So far I have some really nice pictures of the IWB getting in great positions.

 The slowing down is for the keeper to "pressbait" the opposition to commit more men forward, and after that have occured i expect him, the BPD or the IWB (or at times the fullback) to advance the play from there. The lower tempo is mostly beacuse I feelt the squad wasnt technical enough to be able to keep possession well at the standard tempo with positive mentality.

 

Edit: The roles I do some thinkering with is IWA, BBM, APs and the FBs.  Sometimes i try WPA, CMA/MEZ, AMA/Enganche, Wbs.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Djuicer

[sporadicsmiles]

Very nice post, welcome to the forums! 

I am curious about how you are finding the underlap left instruction. This is one of the things I think I have never played with in the game. How do you see it affecting your play? 

[Sinister78]

Great post!  If you ever put this on through wordpress and posted every week or so I know I would read it.

[Guest]

Nice opening, I am keen to see how your AMC does, I have not been able to make it work consistently on FM 2020

[Djuicer]

Thanks for the kind words! year one is done and I have written some of the analysis and development material. Regarding wordpress its something I have considered, but Im feeling there maybe will be to  much work? Im already having quite a full plate. But I have 0 experience with the platform and maybe it wont take much time?

The underlap left is something I will adress in the next part as a part of the IWB analysis.

 

The APs is no more. He often took up the same position as the BBM so i played around with both roles and right now i have AMs with roam and more pressure. The former BBM is now an CMs with get further forward and more pressure. Still i would say his (Cairney as APs) stats was OK the first season (handfull of goals, double digits for assist, 7.26avg-rating). Now once I advanced to the PL he was replaced with a very special talent.

(Cairney stats)

Edited April 6, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

My first move as i took control over Fulham,  was to start developing some traits. First I started both individual training and made trainingroups with mentors that had desirable traits and/or personalities. The first trait I wanted in a lot of offensive players was play one-twos to help create overloads and great fluidity in movements. This has come along quite nicely and a lot of my players now possess this trait. Next i wanted to create special movments, Often complimentary or traits that gives roles more varaiability. This is what most players are currently spending their time developing.

The first season was a good year and we won the leauge and advanced to the premiership. This is some of the stats that shows how we preformed (disclaimer, some stats from 14mars not the end of the season).

 

Defensive: We keep the most clean sheets so the defence seems to have worked just fine. 

 

Other notably aspects of the defending was the fact that we made third fewest fouls, this will probably change this upcoming season beacuse now Porteus (20 aggression paired with dives into tackles) is back from his loan.

 

Also we conceded the fewest goals. No fine tuning needed here.

 

The only thing possibly that wasnt up to par was the tackling, we actually won the fewest in the whole league. But I tell myself we didnt need to tackle if we already had the ball. The ratio for winning tackles placed us seventh atleast.

 

Offensive: Our offensive created a reasonable amount of chances.

 

The finishing was excellent though which could have some diffrent explanations. 1 We created good chances or 2, our strikers (players overall) have a high quality compared to the leauge. Fulham saw the highest amount of goals scored and the best conversion ratio.

 

We fired most shots on goal with the joint highest hitratio.

 

Possessionwise we attempted third most passes. AVG possesion 56 %.

 

Individual honors were handed out to the division's topscorer Aleksandar Mitrovic, with Adam Armstrong finishing the runner up (mostly playing IWa).

 

PTOTY looked like this.

 

All players I wanted to keep is still at the club and we got some great additions during the 1st winter and 2 summer transfer window. Most notably is probably Thiago Almada, Danny Loader and Nohan Kenneh (who was born in USA but has an english citizenship), the last bunch that earned recognitioning was Matt Clarke, Jack Butland and Rabbi Matondo. When the glorious  youth intake was coming up I wasn't especially hopeful after receiving this.

 

When the day finally arrived it resulted in this. Which was maybe better than what I expected but still quite underwhelming.

 

The tactic at large worked quite like I wanted in most aspects but the APs and the BBM was often too congested and I didnt fancy that. So the roles were changed. I also felt that with the new players we could play with a bit higher tempo and moved the slider to standard for the positive mentality (wich was what I wanted from the set off). In some parts of the analysis there will still be the older version tough, but that plays out very much the same.

 

Development wise I will now show some of the players I think have become very important for our style. Joe Bryan is very important for the overall play and as you can see he now has the play one-twos and get forward whenever possible traits. Statswise he hasn't evolved much but i suppose he is quite close to his PA? Reasonably he is close to his cap.

 

One of the reasons behind the “look for underlap” is that the IWB is often finding himself in great position for the final ball or even scoring, this is partly to player traits but also thanks to the increased mentality that he gets when the look for underlap is active, while its active he gets an attacking mentality that increases the ratio of his forwards runs, but that's not the only perk. He also gets inclined to generally play with more risk at all aspects of his game. Without the look for underlap he is still quite aggressive risk wise but he is “only” getting a positive mentality. The second thing of the look for underlap is that it lowers the mentality of the player ahead of the player in the defensive line. So for starters we would have had our Wa playing with the very attacking  mentality which allows him to play with a lot of risk. He is also less interested in helping the defender and thus making less defensive actions. The last aspect this creates is compactness which in most scenarios is something most managers like to see. Mentalitys with underlap for the winger and inverted wingback is attacking and attacking, without this instruction their respective mentality would have been very attacking (winger) and positive (IWB). Now lets get on with the IWB (mainly Joe Bryan) and some actual footballing (gameplay).

 

When he plays he often finds himself in this position, (number 3). At this moment Reed (21) didnt make the best desicion and ended up dribbling and losing possession. A better choice would have been to recycle the ball using the CMd (number 20) and then he could have found the IWB (3) who hopefully still would have had access to acres of space.

 

Here we see Terence Kongolo (16) who was a loanie during the first season taking up almost the same position. He shoots/passes and the APs (number 17,) scores.

 

Alan Campbell found himself having a lot of free options to pass. 22 (FBs), 10 (APs), 20 (CMd) and ofcourse number 3 (IWBs, Joe Bryan). At this moment he chose Joe Byran who took a few touches and fired it home.

 

This is the same game (vs Yeovil in the cup). Joe Rankin-Costello playing as IWa had advanced down the right flank and crossed the ball perfectly to Joe Bryan who was once again unmarked just a few steps from the golden zone. He ended up scoring his second.

 

Here we can see Leighton Baines traits. Baines who was a minor winter addition have seen his physique fall off a cliff but his traits is excellent for the IWB role. The fact that he is a Model Citizen isn't too shabby either.

 

This is Baines, getting the ball from Allan Campbell.

 

Baines advances with the ball and..he shoots and the ball finds the net.

 

FBs is throwing to APs and then getting the ball back and finding the IWB with a great pass. The IWB shoots and scores.

 

IWB under pressure but manage to get the ball to the leftwinger. Probably due to the increased compactness (Wa a bit deeper, closer) from look for underlap and the increased mentality which made him gamble on this option instead of the safer option CD or BPD which basically just would have recycled the possession.

 

The Wa (Danny Loader) beats his man and advances into space.

 

Loader finally makes an easy cutback to Mitrovic (AF) who places his shot near the first post. Deeper almost inline with the furthest opposition player we can see that Bryan is approaching the penalty area. He would also have been an option to finish this move off.

 

This is mainly what the IWB does for me. Getting into good positions, starting moves and sometimes finishing them off.

 

The other flank is different though. At the right there is no over nor underlap used. Which creates a bigger gap between the players and also makes them play with different approaches regarding risk. Those players will have very attacking (IWa) and positive (FBs). Results were good for the player holding down this position for the most of the season (Adam Armstrong IWa). Ending up with 19 goals and 4 assist (even though he played some as an AF too. The fullback was offering support but isnt involved as much as the IWB.

Adam Armstrong receives the ball out wide. Here he could choose between dribbling or passing to the AF (number 9) or the APs (number 10). He went with his soaring pace to bypass the defender(s). 

 

As you can see here he has now advanced into a great position inside the oppositions area and he finds the further side of the net with his shot. Quite Henry esque (even if the side he cuts inside from is wrong). 

 

Similar to the first goal, Armstrong once again takes up a position on the right, only this time the defence is positioned a lot better and he starts near the opposition's left midfielder.

 

So he starts using them legs and cuts inside from the wing. Wreaking havoc in the opposition's formation.

 

Having made quite the run and zig-zagging through the opposition he braces it home, a well deserved goal after a fantastic solo raid.

 

This is a different goal but not something to be underestimated. The classic counter. Armstrong receives the ball on our side of the pitch.

 

Thanks to his pace he is still ahead/even with the defenders even though he is running with the ball at his feet.

 

And finally under pressure from number four in Preston he manages to find the net actually scoring on his own rebound.

 

Those images will show you a goal where the IWa (on this occasion its Knockaert) does not run with the ball but instead takes up a dangerous position. Harry Arter BBM has the ball in a classic number 10 position.

 

He passes to the AF (Mitrovic) who dwells on the ball. The opportunity almost seems wasted.

 

Happily Mitrovic finds Knockaert and the rest is history (or one nil Fulham).

 

The IWa brings runs with and without the ball to the team. Being a very attacking mentality player paired with Adam Armstrong's traits this creates an interesting role. I successfully removed the likes to lob keeper trait. Play one-twos have this far not been something he's been able to grasp.

 

Regarding formation and roles, this is the current setup.

 

As you can see it's quite similar to the opening post and I have just adjusted a few roles. The central midfield was changed due to the APs and BBM kept standing on each other's feet. I removed both roles and made an AMs with roam (and pressure more) and an CMs with get further forward and moves into channels (also pressure more). 

 

Now I was without my playmaker and I felt that my team needed one, thus I introduced a DLPd instead of the former CMd. This is a change I liked because I always like my playmaker as deep as possible (more options to make forward passes) and now he dropped from the AM strata to the CM strata. I also think the DLPd drops deeper than the CMd did both in buildup play and during defensive phases. He also find himself covering for the IWB more often then the CMd did. This is how the role looks. I don't really like the main playmaker to be cautious but the more direct and more risky passes weigh up some of it, later when we are more established in the PL i would like to get the playmakers mentality to positive.

 

That’s all for now. In other posts we will look more closely to the AMs, Wa and CMs.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Djuicer

[Urbiscuit18]

Fantastic post

[Guest]

Brilliant stuff, loving that inverted fullback movement.

[Djuicer]

2 hours ago, Urbiscuit18 said:

Fantastic post

Thank you 

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Brilliant stuff, loving that inverted fullback movement.

Yes, the inverted defender is really special in the right setup!

[Vizzini]

Great post! Tried my hands at something similar after I was inspired by your post. Always struggle to find the right balance in midfield, but could be on to something here

[Djuicer]

8 hours ago, Vizzini said:

Great post! Tried my hands at something similar after I was inspired by your post. Always struggle to find the right balance in midfield, but could be on to something here

Great! Hopefully it will work out for you 

Please let me know how your wingback and wideplaymaker combo does, seems intresting on paper! The IWa hasnt been close to the numbers he racked up in the championship in the first division. So if the WBa and WPs combo work I might try it on the right side of the pitch.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Djuicer

[Justified]

1 hour ago, Djuicer said:

Great! Hopefully it will work out for you 

Please let me know how your wingback and wideplaymaker combo does, seems intresting on paper! The IWa hasnt been close to the numbers he racked up in the championship in the first division. So if the WBa and WPs combo work I might try it on the right side of the pitch.

Could that not just be because you've taken a step up in league? Or have you change strategy and playing more cautious or still on positive?

[Djuicer]

48 minutes ago, Justified said:

Could that not just be because you've taken a step up in league? Or have you change strategy and playing more cautious or still on positive?

Im still on positive, surley it could be the step up. But Im also not sure if Adam Armstrong is good enough to ever preform at the highest level due to his mentals? Hes maybe one of them players who is too good for the football leaugue but really can't cut it in the prem?

 

EDIT: I just finished Y2. Maybe its harsh to say he didn't preform?

Edited April 7, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

The last post was maybe a bit long, I will try to shorten them a bit from now on.

 

After 21 games we placed ourselves in a great position. 7th in the best leaugue in the world.

 

Biggest suprise so far is easily the norwegian viking Erik Bothiem. Who came for £625K in the first window.

 

One of the main reasons for this (the current 7th place) is this man (read Thiago Almada), probably the best player currently at the club. The one currently holding down the AMs position. The AMs has a positive mentality and one PI excluding the obligatory (for the front five of the split block) pressure more. That PI is roam from position and allows Almada to find pockets of space.

 

Here are some images following Almada as an AMs. The IWB (nr5) hugged the line attracting opposition, continus to find Almada, with the ball he has a lot of options. Passes to the CMs (nr 28) who later finds the IWa Botheim (nr29) who scores.

 

The BPD won back possession, passed Wa (Loader)  who moves into channels with the ball

 

Wa (Loader) finds AMs (Almada) who shoots and the ball ends up in the net.

 

DLPd with the ball down the left finds AF (nr9)

 

AF (Mitrovic) beast modes this duel and flicks the ball down to the unmarked AMs (Almada)

 

The header to Almada is so well executed that he only needs to use one touch which he tries a shot with.. and that is his second goal in the same game.

 

At this moment we had kept position for a while between the central defenders and goalkeeper. Finally the ball advances to the DLPd (Johansen). This screen also shows our early buildup structure. 

 

Johansen finds the CMs (Campbell) who makes a quick play forward towards the AMs (Almada).

 

Almada makes a good touch and advances a bit into empty space where he tries a killer ball.

 

The ball seems out of reach but somehow Mitrovic gets to it first and fires it...wide off target.

 

Those pictures shows what the AMs offers for my team, the parts I like best is the ability to find pockets of space, maybe because of roam PI and the fact that the AMs holds an entire strata for himself. Im also pleased that the changes I made from APs/BBM to AMs/CMs have made them much less likely to walk all over eachother.

 

Next up, some information regarding the current squad, Wa and then, CMs.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Djuicer
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[Braincomplexa]

Really liking the posts man! Very clear and easy to understand, and some food for thought for myself

[Djuicer]

9 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Really liking the posts man! Very clear and easy to understand, and some food for thought for myself

Thats great! any ideas in particular you have tried out?

[Braincomplexa]

17 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

Thats great! any ideas in particular you have tried out?

Not yet, I've started to pause my matches more often to see positions of my players, so that has inspired me, but the IWB with underlap is very tempting.

[Braincomplexa]

I've noticed my split block press has become more effective by telling all my hard pressers to get forward PI, so that has helped and that makes sense, thank you!

[Djuicer]

9 minutes ago, Braincomplexa said:

Not yet, I've started to pause my matches more often to see positions of my players, so that has inspired me, but the IWB with underlap is very tempting.

I saw your post about your tactic, did you keep one IF as attack? If you did i think the IWB + underlap combo would work great  on that side.

 

Awesome that the splitblock works for you 

[Braincomplexa]

16 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

I saw your post about your tactic, did you keep one IF as attack? If you did i think the IWB + underlap combo would work great  on that side.

 

Awesome that the splitblock works for you 

I have it now on IF(s) and IW(a), though I dont like the ratings my IF is getting now, so I may still have to change that again. I want my fullbacks to bomb forward like Liverpool as they have 15 crossing each, but I may be able to achieve that with IWB too, interesting to think about!

[Djuicer]

Just now, Braincomplexa said:

I have it now on IF(s) and IW(a), though I dont like the ratings my IF is getting now, so I may still have to change that again. I want my fullbacks to bomb forward like Liverpool as they have 15 crossing each, but I may be able to achieve that with IWB too, interesting to think about!

IFa and IWs might be a more "natural combo"? IF is more of a scorer and the IW is more of a creator, so if the IW gets deeper hence gets more on the ball and therefor can create more? IF getting closer to the goal so he can shoot more often?

 

Might be possible to use the overlap and IWB? cant say I have tried this on my own, so maybe wont work in ME. Usually my favorite fullback role for possession systems is the CWB. 

[Braincomplexa]

6 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

IFa and IWs might be a more "natural combo"? IF is more of a scorer and the IW is more of a creator, so if the IW gets deeper hence gets more on the ball and therefor can create more? IF getting closer to the goal so he can shoot more often?

That sounds reasonable, but the only way to keep the very attacking mentality combo on both players is that way and I want my IW to score a hell lot of goals, but if both are not performing I may indeed need to try that out!

6 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

Might be possible to use the overlap and IWB? cant say I have tried this on my own, so maybe wont work in ME. Usually my favorite fullback role for possession systems is the CWB. 

Yes, @Rashidi said IWB on overlap can still act like a traditional WB, in fact Trent in the game is one it seems. 

And yes, I love a capable CWB in my possession system!

 

[Djuicer]

22 minutes ago, Braincomplexa said:

Yes, @Rashidi said IWB on overlap can still act like a traditional WB, in fact Trent in the game is one it seems. 

And yes, I love a capable CWB in my possession system!

If Rashidi said it works then it does. The lad speaks and the ME listens 

Trent is probably one of the best IWB in the game imo, but he is also possibly the best CWB (and WB) too. Just an amazing player.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Djuicer

[Urbiscuit18]

Do you find that the support midfielder and the IW-A sometimes get in each others way? I've experimented with the support midfielder on the same side as the W-A and the IWB-S behind him and i find the movement to be much nicer.

[Djuicer]

17 minutes ago, Urbiscuit18 said:

Do you find that the support midfielder and the IW-A sometimes get in each others way? I've experimented with the support midfielder on the same side as the W-A and the IWB-S behind him and i find the movement to be much nicer.

Sometimes, but not that often, might be due to the idividual player and his traits maybe? Its a tradeoff really. The main reason is for the DLPd on that side is to be able to cover the holes deeper down my structure when the IWB adventures off into advanced areas, it kinda looks like a positional swap. The CMs wont do this as often and I still value the defensive cover more at this point. I dont think my team is good enough to skip that cover at this moment. But if you are a stronger team it might be possible, or with an other mentality, there is a lot to consider.

[andrealves_10]

Your formation and your tactics seem pretty good to me, can you make the download available so I can test it ?

Edited April 8, 2020 by andrealves_10

[Djuicer]

7 hours ago, andrealves_10 said:

Your formation and your tactics seem pretty good to me, can you make the download available so I can test it ?

Its not really a plug and play tactic so I cant guarante any good results. But feel free to try it out! Note: the corners and direct freekicks is made for the AM or RM to take care of.

 

I sent the .fmf in PM

Edited April 8, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

We have reached the EFL CUP FINAL!

 

Well that ended in disappointment, we had 1-0 but the ref seems to be needing to loan my glasses and found a foul. No goal. Later Manchester City scored on a freekick and that was it. Let's move on.

 

We finished the season as biggest overachievers at place 6. The press saw us as relegation candidates. So I'm very proud of the lads.

 

Here are the current seasons transfers in:

 

And  (major) out:

Here I have lost out on a lot of cash because of the pre-set rules I made up, Zambo Anguissa would still have taken a place in the team for example. Two transfers I feel was good is Rankin Costello in for £1.8M and out for £5M. The best though is Ryan Porteous, arriving for £900K and left for £20M, excellent business.

 

Notable transfers are quite a few but if I'm allowed to cherry pick I would say Mctominay, Savoldi and the player mentioned in the opening post, it took me two full seasons and almost a full third summer window but finally, he is here. Dwight Mcneil. You had a good run mr Bryan but now you will have to get used to the bench.

 

Given the transfers business made it leaves us with this squad. This is the beggining of S3

 

First off, the new CMs Scott Mctominay

 

Sebastian Savoldi, the future playmaker for my team.

 

And last but not least, Mcneil. He has everything a superb IWB needs, and due to his age there is hopefully some more ability to squeeze out of him.

 

Ryan Giggs, that's the first name that pops into my head when someone mentions a winger, he was quick as a motorcycle, had a marvelous engine and could both dribble and pick a pass. I guess this is a generational question though and some may get the image of John Barnes or a later alternative could be Jadon Sancho. Maybe today the most obvious players are actually playing deeper as fullbacks or wingbacks, I'm thinking of Jordi Alba, Andy Robertson, Joao Cancelo, Alex Sandro, Alex Telles, Diogo Dalot. All are very capable players who once, might have played as wingers, but in today's football is considered wingbacks or fullbacks. 

 

The winger, or Wa. What do I expect from this player? I want him to be pacy, to offer my team width, be able to swing a decent cross, and have enough ability on the ball to beat his man in one on one duels. If he can find the net a handful of times each year won't hurt either. This is all standard stuff really, but i also want my Wa to confuse the opponent and be able to cut inside from time to time, making him harder to mark out of a game. To achieve this he will need certain traits. Traits that for example my winger happens to possess. Meet the former wonderkid (former due to him being 21 now) Danny Loader.

 

The role in game looks like this, and I think it concludes what I want from the player. He only has the mandatory PI for the split block (press more). 

 

Steven Sessegnon (FBs) gets the ball with oceans of space ahead of him, he starts advancing up the pitch.

 

Sessegnon advances until he is put under pressure, then he decides to cross the ball.

 

The cross is well hit and it reaches Danny Loader (Wa). Here you can also see the positioning of the IWa (21), the IWBs (3) and AMs (10) all whom have been covered earlier. Its also visible that the DLPd (8) is covering deep on the left side of the pitch.

 

Loader decides to take on his man, he succeds and he fires a real cracker and almost breaks the net.

 

Again Sessegnon has the ball, he offloads it to Mctominay (CMs). The IWB (3) is close to his “regular area”. The AMs (10) is dragging defenders out of position and the IWa (21) have found space between two defensive players.

 

Mctominay switches the ball towards the other end of the pitch.

 

And there is Daaaaanny whom almost smashes through the post but the header finds the net so its ok.

 

My CMs (Mctominay/8) finds Almada (AMs/10). 

 

Almada hits a floating pass toward the Wa.

 

Loader takes on and passes his marker. Tries a pass towards the far post.

 

Adam Armstrong (IWa) outpaces his opponent and scores an easy tap in.

 

This is a longer sequence that dosen´t end up with a goal but it shows some patient build up from the back and some great moves from the Wa.

Butland dwells on the ball, passes to Senesi (CDd).

 

Senesi recycles the ball back to Butland.

 

Butland is put under pressure but manages to bypass it and reach Mawson (BPd).

 

Mawson accessing his options, hes having good traits for this (tries to play his way out of trouble, likes to switch the ball to the other flank, brings ball out of defence, curls ball).

 

He also decides to recycle the ball back to the keeper. Butland hoofs it up the left flank of the field. Bypassing 6 Villans with one pass. Here the positional structure resembles a 4-1-4-1 with FBs-BPDd-CDd-IWBs making the back four, the DLPd is the Makélélé role, IWa-CMs-AMs-Wa making the midfield and the AF working as a the lone striker. Its also visible that the IWB have tucked inside and that the Wa is keeping width.

 

Loader gets on the ball, now its time to shine!

 

He passes the right fullback with ease.

 

Now nicely positioned in the penalty area. Shall he take on the central defender or look for a team mate? At this time Dwight Mcneil aint where I want him to be, he needs to learn the get further forward trait asap.

 

He decides against the former and goes with the latter, unfortunate the IWBs (Mcneil/14) gets a terrible touch and clinches possession.

 

The latest modification to the TIs was to add focus play down the middle for increased mentality to the DLPd role. He went from Cautious to Balanced, still not positive but it's getting closer. The downside here is that the central defenders also get this mentality boost and I'm not sure they will be able to handle that in the long run without being replaced. Mentality Wise over the whole tactic that brings us to be quite aggressive at this point. The most cautious mentality the tactic has is balanced and it's just 3 players holding down that mentality, then we can add 3 more on the positive side. 3 Attacking and 2 very attacking. 

 

Inspired by Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I will now show the mentalities spread out as an 11 starting from the AF all the way down to the keeper. The shape is the 4-4-1-1.

Very Attacking(AF)

Positive(AMs)

Attacking(Wa)-Balanced(DLPd)-Positive(CMs)-Very Attacking(IWa)

Attacking(IWBs)-Balanced(CDd)-Balanced(BPDd)-Positive(FBs)

Attacking(SKs)

 

Or better overviewed.

VA

Pos

Att-Bal-Pos-VA

Att-Bal-Bal-Pos

Att

 

If you count the mentality spread within the team as the team mentality, that leaves you with 7 possible mentalities. The most risk taking very attacking dropping to very defensive (very attacking-7, attacking-6, positive-5, balanced-4, cautious-3, defensive-2, very defensive-1). The average value for my team ends up at 5 (59/11=5.4) which actually equals the positive in the team mentality. This shows that my team, player per player is also at its core, a positively thinking team, set out to play on the front foot to some degree.

 

Next up will be the CMs then I will cover the DLPd and the Ball Playing Defender.  I will Also show some new traits to players and positive development.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Djuicer

[ashlfcowen]

I've really enjoyed this thread - thank you. I'll look forward to further updates.

Can you explain your reason behind dropping the two wide players to the midfield line? I'm curious.

[Djuicer]

4 hours ago, ashlfcowen said:

I've really enjoyed this thread - thank you. I'll look forward to further updates.

Can you explain your reason behind dropping the two wide players to the midfield line? I'm curious.

Glad you liked it!

I can talk some about the formation in the next post 

[Djuicer]

Why the 4-4-1-1? My personal experience is that with a 4-4-1-1 you are much more free to select and successfully use attacking roles and duties compared to 4-2-3-1. Especially considering the defensive work they put out, it's much more demanding to get a player in the AMR/L position to do his job defensively (compared to the MR/L), he needs better attributes and even then, he won't defend as much. Mainly because his starting position is higher and his focus shall be more on the offensive part of the pitch. Under/overlapping is another reason behind the formation, with starting positions closer to the fullbacks it's a much simpler task (and speedier) for them to get ahead of the MR/L. 

 

This creates compactness which is great almost always. Simpler passing, easier to keep the possession. Without the ball the compactness makes pressing so much more effective, two or more players putting in pressure is almost always forcing the opposition to make hasted and therefore worse decisions. 

 

In a lot of the gameplay this version of 4-4-1-1 almost plays out as an 4-1-4-1 with the DLPd joining the defence, the IWB takes place in deep midfield and the CMs joins the AMs and the rest of the attack (IWa, Wa, AF).

 

The CMs, or as originally intended the BBM. I want this player to be an all action midfielder, think of someone like Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira or Steven Gerrard. They could tackle, they could run, pass and shoot. Hard working, often able to produce their best performances when the stakes were highest. Capable of single handedly dominate any game. I would call this kind of player the spark of the team, the one who shows the rest what's expected of them. The player who with a single action turns a game.

 

I know my best player for the job ain't close to what this lot achieved but..Mctominay still does a good job. (Now he has the get further forward trait too, this creates the movement I want, he's not especially prolific in front of goal)

 

The role in the game looks like this, three PIs including the split block must pressure more. Get further forward + moves into channels helps with the drive forward. Mctominay may be hard working and highly motivated on the pitch, but he lacks killer instincts. The instructions and get further forward trait crossed with the positive mentality helps him with the willingness to join my attacks. Defensively this player is also important as he needs to be able to get home, and support the DLPd and the backline in defense. I also expect him to break some legs every now and then. Workrate, stamina and aggression is important to achieve this (Mctominay has 18, 19 and 15). 

 

Lets look at some of the things he offers on the pitch.

Sessegnon (FBs) finds Armstrong (IWa) with a high ball, Armstrong wins the header and aims it towards Mitrovic (AF/9).

 

Mitrovic dwells on the ball, attracting opposition in numbers, then he passes towards the CMs (in this case it's Jude Bellingham).

 

Bellingham stands on the ball, accessing his options.

 

The CMs (Bellingham) decides for a quite long pass towards the Wa down left (Mcneil). The pass is perfectly executed.

 

Mcneil (Wa) drives towards the goal with some neat touches and scores with a screamer.

 

Savoldi (DLPd) with the ball, searches for the IWBs (Mcneil)

 

Mcneil with loads of space and plenty of time.

 

WHAT A PASS BY MCNEIL, this leaves the CMs (Mctominay) with only the keeper to beat.

 

Composedly Mctominay places the ball near the far post!

 

Mctominay (CMs) tries a killer ball towards IWa (Armstrong), but the defense wins possession.

 

Sessegnon (FBs) takes it back! Advancing into the penalty area.

 

Sessegnon crosses towards the center and there Mctominay has run towards the penalty area and shoots the second the ball reaches him. GOAL.

 

This is some different footage than before. This will show some defensive movement and actions.

The CMs (Mctoimnay) marking Spurs number 6 closely.

 

Here the CMs (8) is just holding a good position in front of the penalty area.

 

Again Mctominay has followed the run made by Spurs number 6

 

This shows some of the things an “all action CMs” can do. I think he can do everything!

 Next up, the playmaker.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Djuicer
mctomini mctominy mac tom i nay

[chiani.ignacio]

Very good post! Thanks! I'm trying some of this (and some of 4-5-1) in my save with Liverpool with great results (I know is a top team haha)

 

[Djuicer]

11 hours ago, chiani.ignacio said:

Very good post! Thanks! I'm trying some of this (and some of 4-5-1) in my save with Liverpool with great results (I know is a top team haha)

 

Stronger team yes, but the squad is awesome to try out some of the concepts. Will show if they can cut it at the very highest level with word class talents. I can also see the reasoning for 4-5-1 instead of 4-4-1-1 with that squad (no stand out AM). The squad overall is build like I want mine to become. Grit in the middle, flair on the flanks with possibly the best wide defenders in the world.

[Urbiscuit18]

Very nice post, especially the in game screen caps to really drive the tactic home. Great work!

[Djuicer]

17 hours ago, Urbiscuit18 said:

Very nice post, especially the in game screen caps to really drive the tactic home. Great work!

Great . Do you think its enough screens?  too many or few? Personally I really don't like post bloated with screens but just enough to prove points or patterns can really enhance the material. 

[KrKAlex]

Quality content here @Djuicer. I did not think about lowering the tempo and shorter passing for my 3rd division team in Germany. Do you relate the tempo and lenght of passes only due to the intrinsec quality of your players or in comparison with the other teams? In other words, my team is quite good in passing compard to most of th teams I face in 3. Liga. Would you recommend to lower the tempo and shorten the passes, still, because their passing is 11-13 for the best ones?
Tbh, I did not do it, because I still want my team to go fast forward when we have opportunities to counter-attack, and i thought this would be opposite to what I want to see.

Thank you !

Edited April 17, 2020 by KrKAlex

[Djuicer]

13 minutes ago, KrKAlex said:

Quality content here @Djuicer. I did not think about lowering the tempo and shorter passing for my 3rd division team in Germany. Do you relate the tempo and lenght of passes only due to the intrinsec quality of your players or in comparison with the other teams? In other words, my team is quite good in passing compard to most of th teams I face in 3. Liga. Would you recommend to lower the tempo and shorten the passes, still, because their passing is 11-13 for the best ones?
Tbh, I did not do it, because I still want my team to go fast forward when we have opportunities to counter-attack, and i thought this would be opposite to what I want to see.

Thank you !

Glad it's working for you! 

 

I think its hard to say. Im just now setting both tempo and passing length to the standard setting for positive mentality (the team is quite good now, or around 10th in PL qualitywise). You must take both the quality if your team and the opposition into consideration I think. If the team is relatively good in its context, the lower tempo and passing length dosen't serve any value by its own (means by its ends maybe? or selfvalue? can't find the word!!).  So for me, if I think my team can handle it I will set the tempo to the normal setting (for this tactic). Hopefully this clears it out!

Edited April 17, 2020 by Djuicer
in swedish it's självändamål

[KrKAlex]

Hmm, understood. That is the approach I took too. And it worked quite well, 5 journeys until the end of the season, I am fighting for the 3rd promotion spots where the president and the medias saw us mi-table.

[Djuicer]

4 minutes ago, KrKAlex said:

Hmm, understood. That is the approach I took too. And it worked quite well, 5 journeys until the end of the season, I am fighting for the 3rd promotion spots where the president and the medias saw us mi-table.

Nice! Hoepfully you will reach the thirdplace 

[Djuicer]

Sneakpeak. From the upcoming part.

This was Sebastian Savoldi, my DLP. 

 

This is Savoldi today. Best player in the team today. Extremly happy with his development, traits and stats.

Edit: I have trained him as APA (mostly) with individual focus on strenght (jmp, str)

Edited April 18, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

So, this will probably be the last part while I'm still managing Fulham. I will try to find a bigger club to see if I can start adding some silverware to the trophy room. Hopefully a bigger team will hire me.

 

In my team I have used one playmaker during this whole series. It started out with an advanced playmaker in the attacking midfield area. Now I have dropped the playmaker deeper and he plays in the regular midfield strata. Also the role have changed from APs to DLPd.

 

What I want from the playmaker?

Set the rhythm of the play. Dictates the tempo.

Help the defenders to build up play. Comes deep to get ball.

Advance with the ball. Runs with ball through the centre.

Smart intricate tiki-taqi passes to create overloads. Plays one-twos.

Release the other flank. Likes to switch ball to other flank.

 

Meet Sebastian Savoldi. The heartbeat of the team. He decides when we attack, how we attack and at which pace. Fast attack down the flank? Slow buildup through the middle? Those decisions I expect Savoldi to do, every sequence, every game, every season. If he does his job correctly the heart ticks (team wins) and every other player can shine.

 

This is how the DLPd’s instructions look.

 

 

Savoldi with the ball, acessing his options with plenty of time, deciding the tempo of the game.

 

Savoldi decides to switch the ball to the other flank where both players (IWa and FBs) are unmarked.

 

The IWa (Adam Armstrong) advances with the ball but he puts the finish wide off target.

 

In this sequence Savoldi is overlooked by the CDd (Rodon) who passes an other player. But Savoldi was in an excellent position having dropped between the splitting centre backs into an Busquets-eqsue position.

 

Here Savoldi is fairly pressed between two Bournemouth players but he manages to pass the ball to the IWa (Brooks).

 

Brooks takes on the defender but he ceads possession.

 

This is a longer sequence mainly starring Savoldi, Barco (IWBs) and Bellingham (CMs). They keep the ball, passing around. At one point Sensi advances and joins the passing. Then after a while Savoldi finds Brooks (IWa) who the passes to Matheson (FBs). but Matheson makes a bad cross.

 

Here Henderson throws directly to Savoldi.

 

Savoldi passes to countryman Barco at IWBs.

 

Savoldi gets it back and later finds the Wa (Johannesson)

 

Johannesson recycles to Savoldi again.

 

Savoldi tries a long pass into the penalty area, he overhits it a bit though.

 

But it reaches Brooks (IWa) who can try to create something inside the penalty area.

 

Thats what I want from my playmaker and Savoldi has it all. At this moment Manchester City comes in with an offer, i refuse but they come back and meet Savoldis £81M clausule. Hopefully he will opt to stay put.

Well, he did not.  I also sold Marcos Senesi who had lost the battle for starting defender with Kenneh. Loaded with cash I just needed to find a new playmaker.

 

I searched long and hard but finally I found him, the new playmaker. Jean Pyerre a 25 year old brazilian with double digits in both goals and assists almost every season.

 

For me he will be played deeper than before though. Gremio used him in the AM strata. I will play him in the midfield strata. This is JPs attributes.

 

This is maybe my final new post of the journey. Maybe I will show a ball playing defender later. I will also show the tactic as it is now. I will also announce my new team and with that team I will maybe create a new thread and a new tactic, maybe my own take on positional play, gegenpressing or a three at the back.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Djuicer

[dokera]

Great writing.

Could you please sum up all role models' PPMs and their important attributes for IWa, Wa, BPD, ST and so on?

 

[Djuicer]

1 hour ago, dokera said:

Great writing.

Could you please sum up all role models' PPMs and their important attributes for IWa, Wa, BPD, ST and so on?

 

I can  sum up the whole team with PPMs. What my player looks like and what the dream would be 

[Djuicer]

Silverware collection at this point. Euro Leauge II and the Championsship throphy, and right now we claimed the Carabao Cup.

 

The current version of the tactic. Some TI’s have been added to please the board. Like the play for set pieces. But overall I'm fairly pleased with them. The biggest concern is that my possession numbers have gone down quite a bit. Think teams are playing more defensive versus us now. Removing maybe be more expressive or adding work ball into the box would help with this issue.

 

For the development I have constantly tried to have a couple of routined lads around the team. At this moment it's Hugo Lloris, Mario Mandzukic and Marouane Fellaini. I have also tried to have 2-3 players with at least 18 in Determination. Currently I hold two players with 20, Wang Jiahao and Victor Cuesta. This to help the younger players develop their determination and personalities.

 

Roles in the tactic.

Sweeper keeper (SKs). Here we have Dean Henderson, the best I had was probably Jack Butland, but I didn't like his very low determination so he was moved on, arguably Butland was more of a shot stopper than a sweeper. The role model for this position would be some of the german keepers (read Neuer, Ter Stegen). 

Pref PPMs: none. PIs: none

 

Full back (FBs). Luke Matheson, is the current man. The longest servest was Steven Sessegnon but I just couldn’t get him to develop his personality enough.  Aaron Wan Bissaka is the player I would prefer here, defensively excellent and able to support in the offensive. 

Pref PPMs: Plays one two, hugs line. PIs: Stay wider (but only if the player does not have hugs line).

 

Central defender (CDd). Joe Rodon, tall, strong and pacey. This man I want to be able to dominate the opposition. Earlier I used Alfie Mawson here as the BPD but Rodon simply was better. The role model for this position would be Diego Godin, or prime Nemanja Vidic. 

Pref PPMs: Winds up opposition, gets crowd going. PIs: none

 

Central defender (BPDd). Nohan Kenneh. Marcos Senesi was a worse player but had great PPMs. He was sold for a smaller fortune so now it's Kennehs place without contest really. The role model for this position is someone like John Stones, Mats Hummels or Gerard Pique. 

Pref PPMs: Brings ball out of defence. PIs: none

 

Full back (IWBs). Dwight Mcneil was bought for this, but he has big problems staying fit so currently I use etiher Ezq Barco or Matt Clarke here. Clarke is a stable option with great PPMs and Barco is the more risky option that's not really an option against top teams. I would still say Mcneil is a great alternative for this role, if you can keep him fit. 

Pref PPMs: Runs with the ball, plays one-twos, get further forward. PIs: none. (This is Matt Clarke)

 

Wide midfielder (IWa). David Brooks is the current player here, the most successful has probably been Adam Armstrong but he doesn't really cut it as a starter in the top division. Simply put, he is a speed merchant, nothing more. Arjen Robben would have been perfect here, or in the game possibly Federico Chiesa attribute wise at least. 

Pref PPMs: Cuts inside (or runs with the ball down right, to create a hybrid between winger and inverted winger), Likes to try to beat offside traps, plays one-twos. PIs: close down more.

 

Central midfielder (CMs). I use Jude Bellingham here, even though Scott Mctominay is kind of the role model for this role, but Bellingham is just too good. I want this player to be a runner, to be big and strong. A presence in both boxes. Mctominay has all of this, its just that Bellingham has so much more ability.

Pref PPMs: Get further forward, plays one-twos. PIs: close down more, get further forward, moves into channels.

 

Central midfielder (DLPd). Jean Pyerre is playing here, I had Sebastian Savoldi who was very good. The role model here is Frenkie De Jong. This player is expected to be clever/smart (vision, decisions, anticipation), composed and great on the ball.

Pref PPMs: Dictates tempo, like to switch ball to other flank, play one-twos, comes deep to collect ball. PIs: More risky passes, more direct passes.

 

Wide midfielder (Wa). Dwight Mcneil play here right now. He is quick and fairly good defensively, overall a well rounded player. A role model is someone like Sadio Mane.

Pref PPMs: Get further forward, plays one-twos, cuts inside (for hybrid between winger and inverted winger). PIs: close down more.

 

Attacking midfielder (AMs). Almada is my main man here, he is a very talented baller with lots of flair and ability on the ball. A true entertainer. I want this player to rack up assists and possibly a few goals too. Role model, prime Özil.

Pref PPMs: Tries killer balls, Moves into channels. PIs: close down more, roam from position.

 

Striker (AF). Dele Alli is playing here at the moment, not ideal but not bad either. Danny Loader was the best I had but money talks and £70M swayed his (and my) mind. As a role model Robert Lewandowski would be perfect for this, or Haaland.

Pref PPMs: Plays one-twos, a lot of others could work the role itself has interesting movement. PIs: close down more.

 

I decided to stay at this point. Arsenal gave me an offer but..Im looking for something else, hopefully a blue team in london would be interested in me. I just interviewed with them. But sadly I tanked it and they went with Carlo Ancelotti the current Real Madrid manager.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Djuicer

[Urbiscuit18]

Have you thought of playing a Mezzala instead of the CM-S? Just noticed that they have similar PIs.

[Djuicer]

4 hours ago, Urbiscuit18 said:

Have you thought of playing a Mezzala instead of the CM-S? Just noticed that they have similar PIs.

Yes, but I was afraid of the stay wider and roam. But it might actually be worth a shot.

[coach vahid]

Hi... Maybe you answered to this,  but i would like to know if the midfield is not too congested.  Between the roles cm + pi move into channels and the IWa which comes naturally inside on the right side, and the IWB and the Dlp on the left side ...is there not too players inside ? 

Great job by the way. 

[Djuicer]

9 hours ago, coach vahid said:

Hi... Maybe you answered to this,  but i would like to know if the midfield is not too congested.  Between the roles cm + pi move into channels and the IWa which comes naturally inside on the right side, and the IWB and the Dlp on the left side ...is there not too players inside ? 

Great job by the way. 

Sometimes at certain stages in buildup player do pass each other quite closely, but often after that passage the spacing gets better again. I don't feel there is problems at the right flank (IWa, CMs) but the IWBs and DLPd does this at some stages before the IWBs ends up higher then the DLPd. But I quess thats bound to happend if you want the DLPd to cover the area the IWBs holds without the ball with the ball. This will eventually always happend with the IWB I think unless the central midfielders are very attacking.