Need advice with crossing please

[bere23]

hi all guys,i need ur help here plz..its annoying with my wingers crossing,i noticed everytime they  are trying to cross the ball they are hitting always the opponent full back.even if they received the pass and have space and time to cross it seems like they are waiting the full back and hit him.its pissing me off  any idea why this is happening?is about attributes issue?and sometimes when they are getting in the box they are shooting to GK and not pass the ball to the free player to score..

[Experienced Defender]

Post a screenshot of your tactic please, because otherwise it's impossible to say what exactly is causing your issue(s) with wingers.

23 minutes ago, bere23 said:

and sometimes when they are getting in the box they are shooting to GK and not pass the ball to the free player to score

May be down to poor vision or bad decision-making, but given that I don't know your players, I can only speculate.

[bere23]

I dont play a specific tactic,usually adapting to my opponent.i will try send a pic of the issue later.maybe its fault when using high LOE ?if use early crosses?

here is one example where he doesnt pass the ball to penalty area.easy goal there but...nooo

[bere23]

        

 

well here is another example of my winger....he doesnt event try to beat him in 1vs1..any advice?

[szp]

This is known issue of current ME. Unfortunately SI wasn't able to fix it (or didn't want to).

[crusadertsar]

13 minutes ago, szp said:

This is known issue of current ME. Unfortunately SI wasn't able to fix it (or didn't want to).

Umm no. It's not an issue with ME. It's the issue with broken tactics pure and simple and I'm so tired of people claiming it's always ME fault. Sure it is not perfect and there are currently other problems recognized by SI over on bug forum, but crossing isn't one of them.

Speak for yourself but please don't make general statements like that without backing it up. Just because crossing can't be exploited or is as easy to pull off like in previous versions doesn't mean it's broken. In fact I think it's finally starting to work like it should. Like you actually need to know what you are doing and set up your system correctly. In my 3-5-2 tactic with Valencia, my two wingbacks, Gaya and Piccinni are my assist leaders with 11 each, and I'm only in March. 

 

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

In fact I think it's finally starting to work like it should.

How many crosses does your team average per match?

[crusadertsar]

15 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

How many crosses does your team average per match?

I have to dig into my save to get that info later, but for now you can see Gaya alone completed 74 crosses in 32 appearances. That's at least 2 completed crosses per match from just one player. As in two of his crosses reach a striker in each match. And I didn't even play him in all matches

But also as you can see he is a beast, built for crossing all day. Most players can't cross as well. So part of the problem of OP is maybe not having the right players

 

[CARRERA]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

I have to dig to get that info later,

I'm really looking forward to it cause i did some research on IRL stats recently and while completion ration seem to be very good, the pure amount of crosses is way to high compare to IRL Team. I've checked Bayern, ManC / Utd., Liverpool and some other Top Teams are averaging around 20 Crosses per Game. While on FM (im looking at the whole League of my Save is averaging around 45 crosses per Game, top Teams even more they average around 60).

 

And im also facing the problem that i want my wingers / overlapping FB's to rather play a cut-back pass to the winger/FB or a supporting midfielder. And its not about Vision stats or whatever and also not about positioning if there is another player supporting the crosser relatively close.

[crusadertsar]

I'm intrigued, I'll look into it tonight when I fire up the save again

[bere23]

so any advice how to solve this problem??

[Experienced Defender]

Part of the problem is that the game counts corners (and other set pieces that involve crossing) as crosses, so if you look solely at the match stats, you can get a wrong impression about the actual number of crosses. So you need to go into the team analysis section of a particular match and there you can see how many crosses came (were attempted) from open play (compared to set piece ones).

[CARRERA]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Part of the problem is that the game counts corners (and other set pieces that involve crossing) as crosses

I'll check that

 

9 minutes ago, bere23 said:

so any advice how to solve this problem??

You can turn down your mentality to force players to be more cautious, but it didnt turn out as a general solution, because you lack general penetration then.

The "Problem" primarily occures if your attacked is too compressed and there is no space in the middle so they will pass to wide players who attempt to cross as soon as they are close to byline which starts around the box.

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

10 minutes ago, bere23 said:

so any advice how to solve this problem??

Given that you haven't posted a screenshot of your tactic, I will have to speculate again...

- turn off the "Work ball into box" TI (in case you use it), because it reduces crossing

- turn on the "Hit early crosses" (unless you already use it)

- increase tempo

- increase attacking width

These are team instructions that can - to various degrees - affect your players' tendency to cross the ball, but there are other factors as well. For example, the player may hesitate to cross if he sees that there aren't enough players in the box to potentially receive the cross. You also need to understand that opposition exists on the pitch, not only your team. So if they view crosses as a major threat to their defense, they will naturally try their best to prevent you from crossing (by using wider defensive width, closing down your wide players etc...)

[CARRERA]

22 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Part of the problem is that the game counts corners (and other set pieces that involve crossing) as crosses

Yes you are right, Statcount was 31. Even defensive Freekicks are counted as crosses lol.

 

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Given that you haven't posted a screenshot of your tactic, I will have to speculate again...

- turn off the "Work ball into box" TI (in case you use it), because it reduces crossing

- turn on the "Hit early crosses" (unless you already use it)

- increase tempo

- increase attacking width

These are team instructions that can - to various degrees - affect your players' tendency to cross the ball, but there are other factors as well. For example, the player may hesitate to cross if he sees that there aren't enough players in the box to potentially receive the cross. You also need to understand that opposition exists on the pitch, not only your team. So if they view crosses as a major threat to their defense, they will naturally try their best to prevent you from crossing (by using wider defensive width, closing down your wide players etc...)

You can also try to play more direct (maybe even just on some players as your more advanced playmakers) to bring your winger into a better position.

[Mitja]

compared to players real life stats anything more than 4, 5 crossing attempts per game is a lot and more than 8 highly unlikly. for example L. Digne leads PL with 7,8 crosses/game. 10th place is at 5,5. 20th place is 4,8. 

attacking full-backs like Bellerin, Rose, Aurier, Shaw are bellow 3 crossing attempts per game.

[SD]

Crossing is a high risk play, with a low completion rate.

FMers love to use attacking duties for their fullbacks/wingbacks.

Not only do these come with increased crossing PI, but an attacking mentality on a player will generally make him go for the low % play more often(not just crosses, but dribbles, passes or shots too).

Once you identify what's causing this it's relatively easy to fix. Use support duties, use cross less and cross from byline PIs, drop tempo, use work ball into box - not all at once, these are possible solutions.

Another aspect is wide forwards are too keen to attack the box so lack of passing options further exacerbates the fullbacks inclination to cross. Among others, you can try pairing an attacking fullback with a support wide forward, dropping said forward to midfield strata or longer term, train them to drop deep to get ball, move into channels or arrive late to area.

Pretty much every glaring problem of the match engine can be mitigated by the human player, the real problem is the AI will not make these adjustments.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, SD said:

Use support duties, use cross less and cross from byline PIs, drop tempo, use work ball into box

The OP wants more crosses, not less. Your suggestions are good, but for the opposite situation 

[bere23]

tnx a lot all of you for advices but still the same problem remains..i tried also to play with wbs without wingers front of them and 2 strikes upfront in order that wbs dont wait to see players arriving late in box but still the same,they receive the ball with much space and they hit the enemy or hit the CDs in box..really dont know what else to do...

[SD]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

The OP wants more crosses, not less. Your suggestions are good, but for the opposite situation 

Haha, that's true, read between the lines and just assumed he was looking to get fewer crosses, on a second read I can see it's the completion rate rather than the number of crosses.

31 minutes ago, bere23 said:

tnx a lot all of you for advices but still the same problem remains..i tried also to play with wbs without wingers front of them and 2 strikes upfront in order that wbs dont wait to see players arriving late in box but still the same,they receive the ball with much space and they hit the enemy or hit the CDs in box..really dont know what else to do...

I think player quality definitely plays a part here, not necessarily their crossing attribute but overall quality. IRL players are very rarely successful getting a quality cross through when they have an opponent in front of them trying to block it, and usually they need to beat their man somehow before they hit the cross. So decisions, anticipation and vision all play a part in picking the right moment or whether to even go for the cross in the first place.

Similarly, the quality of the players on the other end of the cross matters too. Good height and jumping help, but anticipation and off the ball are just as important to beat defenders to the ball.

Having said that, the culprit could still be too many crosses, in that your players are making too many speculative attempts which naturally will decrease completion rate by a lot.

[sporadicsmiles]

In the examples you show, who exactly do you want the player to cross to? There is nobody in a position to be crossed to. The first example both strikers in the middle are marked and surrounded by 4 defenders. They are not pushing on the last man to attack a low hard cross. You could potentially play in the player on the right hand side, but he is quite far from goal, and although in space, behind the ball. The defence would be able to snuff out his shooting chance.

The second example, there is nobody in the box at all. One player on the edge, well marshalled and now running onto the ball for a deep cross. Here I cannot fathom why you think an early cross would do anything other than give the ball directly back to the opposition. 

Your players seem to be waiting because there is nobody in a good position to cross to. Rather than cross to nobody, they wait in hope that someone moves into the correct area. This is, I think, one of the main reasons people struggle with crosses in this game. It is not really something you see consistently from the AI. Which means it is something the user is not doing very well. Whenever the AI successfully uses early crossing (or crossing in general) it is because they have players in the right area to receive the ball. 

So I would suggest two things. The first is to use a striker (or two strikers, since you are sticking with the FM18 fad of 3 strikers) on a very advanced role, or a role where they look to run beyond the defence. Get someone into the box so they can be the target for a cross.

Alternatively (or better, as well), you should get the wide players some support so they can perhaps find a pass rather than attempt a cross that is doomed to fail. In all your examples there are players together on the flanks, but the supporting player is behind the advancing player. Perhaps get the rear player offer the overlap? 

[Prej]

The problem isn't that there is no player to cross to, it's that the winger doesn't seem to notice there is a defender right in front of him.

This is not how crossing works. I have never seen a match in which a player was trying to cross a ball through another player, hoping the defender is made of ectoplasm.

[Experienced Defender]

In my Brighton save, I both score a lot of goals and create chances through crosses. Of course that some of cross attempts are blocked or intercepted, but nowhere near to an extent that I would think it's a "ME issue or bug".

[Warrenwwr]

Main things I look at wrt crossing are when should the player cross and what type of cross / where to cross. And this all depends on the players  available.

To me, low pace wingers have to cross early and float or whip it in. High pace guys can cross at the by line or cut inside. Number of crosses doesn't equate to success but number of quality crosses is what's important. Think beckham or figo style of wing play.

[guy.almighty]

I have a horrendous time with crossing in this ME.  Same problem as initially suggested, ball is played out wide, my entire team is in the box (exaggeration but you get the point) except for the FB who has beaten his man, and the cross is blocked by the defender who is now 2 yards behind my FB.  Or the wide player receives it in space then proceeds to wait for defenders to get closer or just hammers it into the nearest defender.  I can take a cross missing it's target or being headed away and even blocked but I'm finding it to be a bit too ridiculous.  I think the problem is the decision making in this years game.  Players seem to make very weird decisions constantly.  Counter attack, my striker ran away from the attack.  He was the only guy in support.  Through balls and playing balls into space just don't seem to happen even if they are the most obvious option.  And that is why wide players are having so many crosses blocked.  That is what I think has changed and, for me, ruined this years game.

[Finners]

On 25/03/2019 at 20:28, crusadertsar said:

Umm no. It's not an issue with ME. It's the issue with broken tactics pure and simple and I'm so tired of people claiming it's always ME fault. Sure it is not perfect and there are currently other problems recognized by SI over on bug forum, but crossing isn't one of them.

Speak for yourself but please don't make general statements like that without backing it up. Just because crossing can't be exploited or is as easy to pull off like in previous versions doesn't mean it's broken. In fact I think it's finally starting to work like it should. Like you actually need to know what you are doing and set up your system correctly. In my 3-5-2 tactic with Valencia, my two wingbacks, Gaya and Piccinni are my assist leaders with 11 each, and I'm only in March. 

 

 

He's right in a sense though in that it's partly the match engine. Just not perhaps in the way he imagines. 

The ME makes it look like silly, like your crossing player has just punted it directly at the defender, the first few times I found it happen it was frustrating and looked daft. 

What's really happening though is just that a defender is getting a block in on a cross which is fair enough, everything needs to be defendable otherwise it gets extreme. 

So it's not a bug or even an imbalance, I play predominantly with a crossing system and I think it's fine, too easy if anything, but I understand what he means about the 3D ME making it look a bit silly. 

[crusadertsar]

@Finners yeah I'm glad I don't play the game in 3rd. I switched to 2D only with goal highlights in 3D. Some things are just not represented well in 3D

[Experienced Defender]

It's interesting that there are two opposite types of complaints in relation to crossing - one group of people complain that crosses regularly get blocked (like here), while others complain that the vast majority of their chances and goals come from crosses (instead of through balls).

[CARRERA]

Just for visualisation

First touch, plenty of space

Controlling the ball, already running. still plenty of space. box already loaded with 4 players.

waiting for the defender to block the cross 

 

Attributes of crossing player

 

Attributes of defending player

 

 

 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Just for visualisation

First touch, plenty of space

Controlling the ball, already running. still plenty of space. box already loaded with 4 players.

waiting for the defender to block the cross 

 

Attributes of crossing player

 

Attributes of defending player

 

 

 

You do realize that crossing of 13 is actually pretty crap. And his dribbling is quite bad also. He is barely faster than the defending player too. At least if he had top acceleration and pace he could have a chance even with poor technicals. Just get better players. If you cannot find fast wingers then look for ones with crossing and passing of at least 15.

[CARRERA]

30 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

You do realize that crossing of 13 is actually pretty crap. And his dribbling is quite bad also. He is barely faster than the defending player too. At least if he had top acceleration and pace he could have chance even with poor technicals. Just get better players. If you cannot find fast wingers then look for ones with crossing and passing of at least 15.

properbly one of the most unquilified comments ever read on this forums. srsly, did you even realize its an overlapping fullback not some attacking player? Also you might not even know the player as beeing properbly one of the top 5 left backs in europe. So if the game denies such a player being able to cross with 5m of space facing an AMR on defense with low stats on marking, positioning, bravery and tackling, idk then buddy.

every schoolkid would be able to cross here with that plenty of space

Also you can replicate this kind of situation several times a game with any kind of player. This was just one example picked out.

[crusadertsar]

21 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

properbly one of the most unquilified comments ever read on this forums. srsly, did you even realize its an overlapping fullback not some attacking player? Also you might not even know the player as beeing properbly one of the top 5 left backs in europe. So if the game denies such a player being able to cross with 5m of space facing an AMR on defense with low stats on marking, positioning, bravery and tackling, idk then buddy.

Also you can replicate this kind of situation several times a game with any kind of player. This was just one example picked out.

Sadly you missed the point. Whether he is one the 5 top fullbacks in reality is irrelevant in game because his crossing technical ability is poor and he is too slow to get past the opposition. His crosses still have a chance to be successful mind you, just not that often. So no need to get flustered and defensive mate. Im just telling you the hard truth.

And in the game tackling ability has very little to do with how well you can block a cross. The opposition player is almost as fast as your player which allows him to get in position and block. Its as simple as that. 

[CARRERA]

24 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Im just telling you the hard truth

the truth is that in terms of FM it is possible to block here. if you look at the 1st screenshot the other player as about a litte bit less then half a penalty area behind wich should be 5-7m. the pass was played into space so he shouldnt loose much speed. The point is tho, this kind of situation should happen rarely if even. but it doesnt. you can replicate it every game even worse looking, as this was the first situation i could spontaneous find.

this is for 100% sure either bad game design of 3d match or a bug. maybe in "calculation" the player is closer but it looks horrible AF.

[crusadertsar]

But that's the thing 3rd engine is never a very accurate representation of what happens under the hood. Just look at how weirdly keepers behave sometimes. Reason why I only play in 2d now and take highlights with grain of salt. 

[CARRERA]

4 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

But that's the thing 3rd engine is never a very accurate representation of what happens under the hood. Just look at how weirdly keepers behave sometimes. Reason why I only play in 2d now and take highlights with grain of salt. 

we are in 2019 if this kind of inaccuracy is state of the art for a (60€) game which claims to be a complex simulation where you need to set up your team from what you see on the pitch cant be satisfying at all. And this is just one of many examples where this version of the ME completely fails. you cant even fanboi away these facts as i properbly love the series as much as you do :-)

[crusadertsar]

7 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

we are in 2019 if this kind of inaccuracy is state of the art for a (60€) game which claims to be a complex simulation where you need to set up your team from what you see on the pitch cant be satisfying at all. And this is just one of many examples where this version of the ME completely fails. you cant even fanboi away these facts as i properbly love the series as much as you do :-)

I hear you. It's not perfect. I guess from my experience crossing wasn't an issue in my save. My biggest issue is actually getting goals from passing through the middle. I barely get any while I get tired of seeing the same cross goal