Any suggestions on how I can create more through balls?

[Becanes]

Could a mod please move this to the tactics forum?  I just realized I put this in the wrong spot.  Guess I was more worried about getting these screenshots right for the first time.

 

 

Hope this comes out right.  This is my first time doing screen shots.

 

I am trying to create more through balls.  Most of my goals come from crosses.  I have told my wing backs to play less crosses and fewer risky passes.  I also play this formation on structured as well.  I've also played around with adding passes into space, roaming, shorter passes, higher tempo.  I'm tying to create more movement and through ball opportunities.  Last season I score the most goals in the league and 3rd best at conceding.  I'm just not playing the football I want to play.  I would like short, quick passing and more through balls that result in goals.  Any tips on achieving this?

[BMNJohn]

Through ball from where? Who's supposed to assist who? How? You have a fairly static and supportive midfield as CM(S) don't move much, and APs even on Attack duties are very supportive players; nevermind the DLP(D) who's just a holding midfielder who's easier on the ball than the other holding options. Then you have two strikers upfront and WBs covering the width. As you can see with the grind, there's not much activity between your midfielders and your strikers. So your system is designed to score from crosses to begin with: your midfielders will seek your your wingers since they're the guys going forward, who will do their thing, punt a cross and if it works you score. Every once in a while the DLF(S) will drop to get the ball, and the only players who make runs are the WB so he gives the ball to them unless he hoofs it to his CF partner. If they're not available, he (hopefully) gives it back to the midfielders, rinse and repeat until you get an opening. That's about it.

[Becanes]

9 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

Through ball from where? Who's supposed to assist who? How? You have a fairly static and supportive midfield as CM(S) don't move much, and APs even on Attack duties are very supportive players; nevermind the DLP(D) who's just a holding midfielder who's easier on the ball than the other holding options. Then you have two strikers upfront and WBs covering the width. As you can see with the grind, there's not much activity between your midfielders and your strikers. So your system is designed to score from crosses to begin with: your midfielders will seek your your wingers since they're the guys going forward, who will do their thing, punt a cross and if it works you score. Every once in a while the DLF(S) will drop to get the ball, and the only players who make runs are the WB so he gives the ball to them unless he hoofs it to his CF partner. If they're not available, he (hopefully) gives it back to the midfielders, rinse and repeat until you get an opening. That's about it.

Ok.  SO what I think you are getting at is that I need more runners from the midfield.  SO I can change the AP(A) to a CM(A), which I have done before.  On the CM(S) I do have get forward option on but maybe I need to change him to a CM(A) as well.  Thoughts?

[warlock]

I could be wrong, but when I think about through balls i think about passes played through the middle from midfield to the forwards (or maybe, from the defence to the forwards). So I'd be looking for one or more of my midfield to try more direct passes, and/or more risky passes. I'd also use 'dribble less' as a TI, or as a PI on my midfielders, given that you want them to look for a killer pass rather than carrying the ball into forward areas. You have one striker dropping deep, but the other staying forward with an attack duty; perhaps having both come deep, dragging defenders with them, might also open up the space for the through-ball.

From the midfield, 'more direct passes', 'more risky passes', and 'pass into space' could be the right PI, but any of those would depend on there actually being enough space behind the defensive line to take advantage, as well as having a deep-dropping forward poised to take advantage.

[juusal]

3 hours ago, Becanes said:

Ok.  SO what I think you are getting at is that I need more runners from the midfield.  SO I can change the AP(A) to a CM(A), which I have done before.  On the CM(S) I do have get forward option on but maybe I need to change him to a CM(A) as well.  Thoughts?

Currently your setup has two main passers, the AP/A and the DLF/S which both look to create and make those through balls you want and the CM/S will be chipping in as well as a supportive player. What you are lacking are players to actually pass to behind the lines. CF/A will make those runs yes, but he is pretty much the only one who does that consistently. You could even argue for an advanced forward instead which is a bit more direct role but that might not be necessary, and it also depends on the player.

What I would look into is more runners. Maybe have one of the midfielders as a CM/A like you suggested, or MEZ/A works nicely as well, playing a bit wider to combine with the wingbacks. You could try a WB/A as they will look to make runs behind the fullbacks if there is space, WB/S does so rarely and looks to keep the width and receive the ball out wide. The important thing is, you need to make sure that these runners have good off the ball, acceleration and anticipation for a start as they need to find the spaces and have the pace to exploit them. You also need to make sure your creators, mainly your AP (or if you decide to use CM or MEZ on attack as they can act as creators as well being so advanced) and DLF have sufficient vision and passing to find those players.

[ajsr1982]

'More Risky Passes' PI is code for 'try more through balls'. You have to have players looking to get on the end of things for that to work, of course.

[westy8chimp]

8 hours ago, warlock said:

So I'd be looking for one or more of my midfield to try more direct passes, and/or more risky passes

 

39 minutes ago, ajsr1982 said:

'More Risky Passes' PI is code for 'try more through balls'

Absolutely.

Choose a player or two as your creator and give them PIs for more risky passes (and optionally more direct, especially if your creator is going to play in CM instead of AM).

You then need to think who is your receiver? The DLF will be dropping deep so not a prime target. The CF A is ok ... he will roam and move to channels which is ideal, but you have the DLF operating infront of the AP. If you stick with that formation you should switch your strikers (or CMs) around so that the DLF is dropping deep as a creator on one side, and the AP is the creator on the other. At the moment they will occupy similar space.

Another note - 532 with wingbacks isn't a formation that screams "Through ball!!" It can be achieved but if you really want to see more central play why not go for a narrower formation? 442 narrow diamond 4231 narrow etc.

[ajsr1982]

4 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

 

Absolutely.

Choose a player or two as your creator and give them PIs for more risky passes (and optionally more direct, especially if your creator is going to play in CM instead of AM).

You then need to think who is your receiver? The DLF will be dropping deep so not a prime target. The CF A is ok ... he will roam and move to channels which is ideal, but you have the DLF operating infront of the AP. If you stick with that formation you should switch your strikers (or CMs) around so that the DLF is dropping deep as a creator on one side, and the AP is the creator on the other. At the moment they will occupy similar space.

Another note - 532 with wingbacks isn't a formation that screams "Through ball!!" It can be achieved but if you really want to see more central play why not go for a narrower formation? 442 narrow diamond 4231 narrow etc.

On top of all that, check your players' attributes. You want your passer to have good, erm... passing, but also good vision, technique and decisions. You'll want the receiver to have a good 'off the ball' (i.e., movement) rating, and acceleration and pace would come in handy too, and it wouldn't harm to have good composure and finishing so he can stick the thing in the net.

[FlairRA]

What people are saying is correct, you need more runners. You need players that look to get in behind the opposition so that your playmakers can find them with throughballs. Think Manchester City, De Bruyne and Silva are the main playmakers, while Sane, Sterling and sometimes Aguero are all making runs in behind. Also Walker (and Mendy when fit) overlaps Sterling, which provides another opportunity for a throughball. Right now your team can only look for Luan and that's it really. I'd make one or both of the WB's an (A) duty so they make forward runs and maybe push up Alli into the AM position in an AM(A), so that he can also look to run in behind, especially with his PPM's.

[summatsupeer]

Hold on a sec, you scored the most goals last season and conceded the 3rd least which means your reputation is likely very high in the league.  Not many teams will come and attack you to get 3 points, most will hope to get a point by parking the bus.  Through balls don't work against parked buses since there's no space to play them into (pass into space = risky passes = through balls).

Assuming your playing against a club who doesn't park the bus:

1. Your only "runner" is the CF-A leading the line.  The rest of the team is very patient or "creators", who do you expect to make a run for a through ball?
2. Your pushing higher + preventing short distribution, how are you going to play behind the opposition if your defensive plan is to not let them push out?
3. You've setup your 3 CBs to try and launch attacks which would miss out the two playmakers but then told them to Play Out Of Defence?  Seems like your caught in two minds about what you want them to do.

 

[FMunderachiever]

If intending to look for the through ball i use the central mids to "try risky passes" and then set midfielders to wide mids and say cross less.

I pair this will wing backs instructed to "cross for byline"

 

It usually leads to quite a few through ball to full back, cut back, placed finish from forward or midfielder getting forward.

 

In order to make this work though i tend to lower the tempo.

 

The other tactic against the high line i use is a pacy advanced forward and use the team instructions to "go route one" and "pass into space".

 

It won me the a treble at dortmund.

[Becanes]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I will give them a shot.  A couple of things.  

When I have played with wb(a) they tend to cross like crazy and I want to avoid that.  I figured my formation doesn't scream through balls but I wanted to make adjustments to make that happen more often.  Crosses are my main source.  I want through balls to be more even. 

I will look to create more runners from midfield and probably one wing back on attack.  I didn't realize you would need directions passing on a midfield player for through balls combined with more risky passing.  I knew the more risky passing part but I've had direct passing on the dlp(d) and he didn't seem to try too many killer through balls.

And you are right about most teams not attacking my much.  So should I opt for both strikers to drop deep if I still want to try through balls so they could hopefully create the space I need?

[FlairRA]

42 minutes ago, Becanes said:

And you are right about most teams not attacking my much.  So should I opt for both strikers to drop deep if I still want to try through balls so they could hopefully create the space I need?

If both of your strikers are dropping deep, who will they provide throughballs to? The one CM (A) isn't going to do much, especially if his runs are tracked. A DLF + AF combo is fine imo, with the CM running past the DLF who can aim for them. And a 3-5-2 has two strikers, it's only natural that your wingbacks will want to cross to them. Also Pass Into Space helps quite a bit for through balls.

[Becanes]

5 minutes ago, FlairRA said:

If both of your strikers are dropping deep, who will they provide throughballs to? The one CM (A) isn't going to do much, especially if his runs are tracked. A DLF + AF combo is fine imo, with the CM running past the DLF who can aim for them. And a 3-5-2 has two strikers, it's only natural that your wingbacks will want to cross to them. Also Pass Into Space helps quite a bit for through balls.

Ok.  I was thinking of having both midfielders be runners.  But I was also looking into have one midfielder and one wing back as the runners.  I think that option is better.

[Keyzer Soze]

This could be a stupid question, but what is the definition for the PI "make more risky passes".

Are those "risky passes" only trough balls" or they also include for example switching the ball for the other flank?

[ajsr1982]

19 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

This could be a stupid question, but what is the definition for the PI "make more risky passes".

Are those "risky passes" only trough balls" or they also include for example switching the ball for the other flank?

I've been told that it explicitly means 'try more through balls', so don't know about the rest. If it is only the former, it would be nice if it just said that!

[alanschu14]

My general understanding is that the risky passes are basically ones (like through balls!) that are seeking to breakdown the defense and by their nature are "risky" because there's a greater chance of losing possession.

THat said I'm a general football newb so there's a lot of assumptions I am putting in there

It might just be through balls but could also be a riskier pass by a defender that's still in the feet of a teammate in better position.

There's a specific PI for switching the ball to the other flank so I'm not sure if that is considered part of riskier passes.

[Bigmonkey79]

Team instruction pass into space. Get weaker passers to pass shorter. Choose your quarterback of the mid 3 and add riskier passes, more direct passes even shoot less to reduce the choices. Consider a role change for the dlf so he challenges the opposition back line. Poacher or AF are a good starting point

Could even move mc to amc.

Defend deeper to bring opposition towards you, then higher tempo and mixed passing to get the ball upfield as their team is still transitioning from att to def.