Academy producing low quality players. ideas?

[jamie c]

Hello

I built my Hartlepool team up to the premier league, with very little money spent, and all money going into the academy.

I now have:

Superb Youth Facilities

Youth Level 2

Excellent Junior coaching

Above average youth recruitment

The problem is every year the youth candidates are all maximum 2.5 star potential

I know I am a small club, but I do the same thing every FM and by now are usually producing top quality players, or at lease 3 to 3.5 star players

Has anything changed on this FM? Any ideas?

Basically these are the same level players as I had in league 1, I know the youth recruitment is slightly down, but still a lot lot higher than it was originally, and the players are getting no better

Also my head of youth recruitment is top notch, he has 20 for JP and 20 for working with youngsters

[Deadmaninc21]

How is your head of youth development or the staff member responsible for bringing youth players to your club? I always make sure they have high JPP, Working with youngsters and a positive personality. Also if he has the same tactical preference he will bring in players who are suited to play in your system and not players with a position which you do not use.

[jamie c]

He is world class, JP 20, youngsters with 20

it seems like I am making a basic error because the players are nowhere near the standard they should be, it isn't even close

How is your head of youth development or the staff member responsible for bringing youth players to your club? I always make sure they have high JPP, Working with youngsters and a positive personality. Also if he has the same tactical preference he will bring in players who are suited to play in your system and not players with a position which you do not use.

[Jaymo_Millwall]

Hi mate, im going through a similar thing with my team, first time ive attempted to do so too however.

Your youth level, you should be aiming for level 1 not 2.

Above average youth recruitment you want atleast established for a better group of intake.

Make sure you have the necessary coaches in place for your U18's squad. The board will tell you what you need to improve the youth intake side of things at the start of the season. Such as:

- 1 U18's Manager

- 1 U18's Ass Manager

- 1 Goalkeeping Coach

- 1 Fitness Coach

- 1 Coach

- 1 U18's physio

[thedeadone]

Yeah this is a really good point as ive yet to have any good players come into the youth team.

[forameuss]

And why should you? Having top facilities just increases the chance of getting star youngsters, not the actual quantity of them. There is no way to guarantee anything, it's just luck. Just like buying a thousand lottery tickets won't guarantee you a win, just increases your chances. You could still win it with just one.

Two other things you seem to misunderstand - you say 2.5* potential...remember this is relative to your squad. If you have a strong squad, players will always be at this level. 2.5 is slightly below average squad wise, but it all depends what that average is. The team that wins the Premier League, for example, will rarely get a player above 3.5*. Also, you're directly competing against every other club in your catchment area to get youngsters in, so in England there's always going to be competition.

As an example, my Lincoln of Gibraltar save produces "above average" youths every single intake, usually about ten of them. In fact, in ten or so seasons, I've managed a couple of players who've come into the Academy with 4* current ability, and 5* potential. Of course, above average in this sense doesn't mean much, as they're still going to be pretty terrible, and will probably never reach that level.

[Puni]

Having affliate clubs with a solid level of youth intake also very much increases your chances to get some nice kids. Apart from that, luck always plays a factor.

[jamie c]

And why should you? Having top facilities just increases the chance of getting star youngsters, not the actual quantity of them. There is no way to guarantee anything, it's just luck. Just like buying a thousand lottery tickets won't guarantee you a win, just increases your chances. You could still win it with just one.

Two other things you seem to misunderstand - you say 2.5* potential...remember this is relative to your squad. If you have a strong squad, players will always be at this level. 2.5 is slightly below average squad wise, but it all depends what that average is. The team that wins the Premier League, for example, will rarely get a player above 3.5*. Also, you're directly competing against every other club in your catchment area to get youngsters in, so in England there's always going to be competition.

As an example, my Lincoln of Gibraltar save produces "above average" youths every single intake, usually about ten of them. In fact, in ten or so seasons, I've managed a couple of players who've come into the Academy with 4* current ability, and 5* potential. Of course, above average in this sense doesn't mean much, as they're still going to be pretty terrible, and will probably never reach that level.

I think you misunderstand me slightly, it is not producing any players who can play at any level, not even league 2 standard, I was just generalising.

I am played FM for years, and the standard slowly goes up the more you improve your facilities, on this one it hasn't gone up at all.

I think I must be missing something, as it has never done this or any other save.

If I look at teams with exactly the same facilities as me, every single one of their players are better, even their worst one.

You don't have to tell me all that, I already know all this, I usually play FM with 11 lads from the academy.

[Chinook2000]

Maybe FM 's becoming more realistic.

Would building a state of the art academy, hiring the best coaches and scouting the World for talent guarantee you star players every year? Obviously it improves your chances but have Southampton had much better coaches and facilities than Chelsea and United in the last 10 years? Or have they struck lucky with who was born their 16-25 years ago. (I believe some genetic engineering and/or including a lucky Matt Le Tissier being put to stud is responsible and why he always turned down the big boys )

And what would stop a number of future stars being born in and around a Club with poor training facilities and then joining them?

With Hartlepool wouldn't the radius/traveling distance rule be in affect? Other than Newcastle/Sunderland to the North and Middlesborough to the South(who already have top academies within their clubs) It's a pretty sparsely populated area.

[Sikker]

I think you misunderstand me slightly, it is not producing any players who can play at any level, not even league 2 standard, I was just generalising.

I am played FM for years, and the standard slowly goes up the more you improve your facilities, on this one it hasn't gone up at all.

I think I must be missing something, as it has never done this or any other save.

If I look at teams with exactly the same facilities as me, every single one of their players are better, even their worst one.

You don't have to tell me all that, I already know all this, I usually play FM with 11 lads from the academy.

In FM14 the better my facilities got the worse my youth intake got as well Well, so it seemed especially because I was lucky with a couple of top notch players early on.

I think it has been said in this thread but:

When you get youth intake as a lower division team with bad facilities and stuff it may seem that you get players with a bright future. Problem is these players aren't that bright when you promote and your team gets better. So the intake you get now is actually having a brighter future than what you got earlier on. Also luck/random numbers play a huge part.

If you still don't believe in this then try to save a week or so before youth intake and reload a couple of times. I haven't tried this myself but it should generate random intake and you might get lucky

[DreamsDefined]

I wonder how cachment's are modelled in the game... whether population etc has an impact at all.

Just wondering because Ajax always have some decent regens, which kind of makes sense as they're the main team in a city with a large-ish population, with no other major club in Amsterdam.

[BoxToBox]

Maybe FM 's becoming more realistic.

Would building a state of the art academy, hiring the best coaches and scouting the World for talent guarantee you star players every year? Obviously it improves your chances but have Southampton had much better coaches and facilities than Chelsea and United in the last 10 years? Or have they struck lucky with who was born their 16-25 years ago. (I believe some genetic engineering and/or including a lucky Matt Le Tissier being put to stud is responsible and why he always turned down the big boys )

And what would stop a number of future stars being born in and around a Club with poor training facilities and then joining them?

With Hartlepool wouldn't the radius/traveling distance rule be in affect? Other than Newcastle/Sunderland to the North and Middlesborough to the South(who already have top academies within their clubs) It's a pretty sparsely populated area.

Re:Bolded, this is definitely possible in FM, in 14 I picked up a pair of strikers who my scouts raved about, from the same intake to a Conference North/South team. Paid 10k between the two. Later on had a cheeky look under the hood, one was 170pa, the other 178pa, with all the relative personality traits to easily hit those peaks.

[GazzP]

Well, you've only got a category 2 youth system (no idea how to increase this) and above average youth recruitment and you'll be in geographical competing with Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesborough, so that's bound to have an effect.

[TheBigBoss]

I think it's fm in general I have Bernhard Peters who probably one of the best head of youth development staff you can get, youth level 1 and top you facilities and I still haven't had more than a 2.5* youngster

[Chinook2000]

When was the last time Man United produced a World Class player? A Club who's youth team were the base of it's most successful sides.

[SFCx]

2.5 stars for PA means that they can potentially reach the same average standard as your current squad. In other words you are producing players who can be around the same level that you currently own. So you're not producing bad players, sure you may well be producing players who need a lot of development, but in terms of their potential they are around the same as what you already have.

Also how many seasons have you played since upgrading your youth facilities to that level?

Good facilities do not guarantee good players, they simply increase the odds of a good player joining you at a young age, and in real life even the best academies rarely produce top class players, the vast majority of players that get into the youth sides of even very top clubs do not end up going on to play in the top division of their respective country.

Let's look at arguably the best academy in England, Southampton. If we go back to 1990 then this is a list of players who have gone on to represent clubs at a high level (or are good enough right now to do so):

Gareth Bale

Wayne Bridge

Calum Chambers

Adam Lallana

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Luke Shaw

Theo Walcott

Alan Shearer

James Ward-Prowse

So even looking back 14 years we only have 9 players who have come through the best academy in the country and gone on to play for a top club.

No matter how good your academy is, or your coaching staff are, it is still luck whether or not you find a fantastic talent at that age and there is no way whatsoever to guarantee success.

Nathan Dyer, Chris Baird, Tim Sparv, Leon Best - All played top level football

Danny Ings, Tyrone Mings, Lukasz Jutkiewicz, Matt Mills - Released at a young age but still Saints Academy graduates!

Plus plenty of other lads plying their trade in tiers 2-3.

I dont think the OP is expecting Bale, Oxo or Walcott every year. Merely some players capable of holding their own in the league, which with them youth stats, should really be getting at least every other year.

[Ifail]

look at sterling he was from QPR then liverpool took him at 2010 sometimes lower clubs can produce good players look i just brought a semi decent regen from notingham forrest at intake day so take a look around

[Ruh Roh]

If he's an established Premier League team then a 2.5 star player compared to his team is like a PL/Championship journeyman - far better than Hartlepool would have at the beginning of the game. Nothing exciting about Chris Eagles or Danny Graham but that's a pretty good outcome for an average academy class.

The star players are pretty rare for everyone except the biggest academies. Think about the northeast recently - Henderson, Carroll, Johnson, Colback and Cattermole over a very long time and over three clubs at around your level in-game. In FM terms I'd only be excited about the first three and I'd only be really excited about the first.