Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.3.1 Update FEEDBACK THREAD

[Jimbokav1971]

Why do players want to go on loan when the transfer window is closed and they are unable to go on loan? :confused:

[dan_lcfc]

I cant believe this game sometimes. The HOME team took the lead then the AWAY team gets a man sent off. Then they score a fluke goal from the left back crossing and it going in, even though he has a 15 crossing attribute, then they score another from a corner before half time. THEN they have the audacity to score on a counter attack after the home side attack to much. Had it with this game. pfft.

Im only joking, Im San Marino, whooopsieee

[ajw10]

So we're drawing 2-2 at Everton. We're absolutely battering them before midway through the 2nd half Huddlestone sticks our striker on a stretcher and gets sent off. Everton are down to ten men. Their midfield now only has 1 CM in it. There's a big gaping hole in the very same position that we're dominating.

Surely we should go on and win this? Nah, despite making NO changes to the team shape, Everton turn into Barcelona 09 and destroy me, winning 4-2. Seriously, how on earth does this make sense? I get them being harder to play with with ten men, but they should start playing like they have 12, should they?

[HUNT3R]

You left out the "Absolutely brilliant game this. Well done SI." part.

You also seem to forget that they did make changes. They didn't just continue the same way. I would love to see a PKM of that match.

[RTHerringbone]

I do love reading your posts ajw10. From the Arsenal thread in GPTG, you said you weren't playing any more, but then you go and wind yourself up again by playing it!

Just stop playing if you can't figure out how to get things working, it'll do your sanity a world of good.

[jdubsnz]

Not specifically feedback, but from your experience: How much can fielding an eleven of entirelly new players hurt in terms of performance? I know this cannot be answered in numbers, as penalties have knock-ons on match action in various ways and thus may cost more in one match whilst less so in another. Been wondering lately, in particular as I'm semi-frequently experimenting by putting together fantasy squads in the editor. All of those players switched around are then naturally registered as "new" to the club (which can probably be avoided by changing their contract starting date?), and should they not speak the language, that makes for a further penalty in communication.

really interesting someone brought this up - I think it makes a massive difference. I've done a couple of wonderkid fantasy teams, and even though they perform well in pre-season, they are woeful once the season starts. I think in my previous save I was 20th after 10 plus games, with no wins! This was a team containing varane, shaw, ginter, aurier, Wilshere, Ramsey, otavio, drexler, sterling, said, morata, oxlade-chamberlain, Akpom, zelalem, etc.

I've had another crack at it with a different team of wonderkids, and am now around 9th halfway through the first season. I reckon if I can make it through the first season without getting sacked, it could be a very fun save

[Jimbokav1971]

I must admit, (can't believe that I am going to agree with ajw10 about anything here but....), there does seem to be a..... "balance" (not sure if that's the correct word), issue with the game when one side goes down to 10. More than that though, it might be a weighting issues with counter tactics in general. Something isn't right though. The game has many issues. It's still significantly the best game of any type I have ever played. Love it.

There. I have gone and done it. I have agreed with ajw10 about something. Now pigs can fly and hell can freeze over.

[ajw10]

I do love reading your posts ajw10. From the Arsenal thread in GPTG, you said you weren't playing any more, but then you go and wind yourself up again by playing it!

Just stop playing if you can't figure out how to get things working, it'll do your sanity a world of good.

I'm a perfectionist and going through a quiet time at work. I will not be beaten.

[HUNT3R]

I must admit, (can't believe that I am going to agree with ajw10 about anything here but....), there does seem to be a..... "balance" (not sure if that's the correct word), issue with the game when one side goes down to 10. More than that though, it might be a weighting issues with counter tactics in general. Something isn't right though. The game has many issues. It's still significantly the best game of any type I have ever played. Love it.

There. I have gone and done it. I have agreed with ajw10 about something. Now pigs can fly and hell can freeze over.

I rip teams apart when they go down to 10. Counter Tactics are effective in FM14 and possibly more effective than it should be (not sure), but you're not doomed against a team with fewer players on the pitch.

[Jimbokav1971]

I wasn't thinking it was an issue when I was facing 10. It's more that I have regularly experienced positive results when going down to 10 myself, (more so than I would have expected). I rip teams apart when I go down to 10.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The media are a bit stupid, eh?

I attended a game between Chertsey and Canvey Island in the FA Cup as my Bath side were due to play the winners in the next round, and I wanted a look at both teams.

Apparently sources in the media are 'at a loss to explain my reason for attending the game'.

Pretty fecking obvious I would've thought, but there you are.

[arsenal12]

Do you take press conferences yourself and what do you say?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Do you take press conferences yourself and what do you say?

What do press conferences have to do with it? :confused:

[arsenal12]

What do press conferences have to do with it? :confused:

Sorry wrong thread, any good threads on how to win on this damn game?

[HUNT3R]

Sorry wrong thread, any good threads on how to win on this damn game?

Have a read of the stickied threads in the Tactics & Training forum. That should get you started.

[nobbysteelers]

Well, I finally have to admit defeat when it comes to FM14

I start off fine, great even, get all excited that i'm onto a winner and I can finally get a long term save going, then every single time this starts to happen.

I've tried being more attacking, more defensive, counter attacking, making major and minor changes to player instructions(team and individual) without success.

As it happens, my away form WILL suddenly pick up, but when that happens my home form deteriorates in the same manner and i'm left even more frustrated. It seems as though as each season passes it becomes harder and harder to score from more and more chances created, whilst the AI create less and less but score a much higher percentage than the previous season???

I buy better players that suit the roles much more than the player they have replaced, but I always get the same outcome whatever I do.

Results like the above can make up for a good 40% of all games played and what makes it even harder to digest is that the teams around me are picking up cheap points from games they are somehow winning when completely outplayed.

I just don't get it and as such the frustrations outweigh the fun and the point of continuing to play.

[HUNT3R]

It sounds like you're just making random changes. The key is to understand what you're doing and why you're doing it.

If you're looking for some tactical advice, open a thread in the tactics forum. Post your tactic and explain the problems you're having.

[nobbysteelers]

It sounds like you're just making random changes. The key is to understand what you're doing and why you're doing it.

If you're looking for some tactical advice, open a thread in the tactics forum. Post your tactic and explain the problems you're having.

I generally only start making RANDOM changes after a few seasons in when things start to get worse and worse, we create more and more chances the better the team gets and concede less and less chances in the same manner, but in every save, we find it harder to hit the back of the net whilst the AI are eventually scoring with every effort.

I have used quite a few tactics in my last few saves and the same happens with each and every one.

[HUNT3R]

I generally only start making RANDOM changes after a few seasons in when things start to get worse and worse, we create more and more chances the better the team gets and concede less and less chances in the same manner, but in every save, we find it harder to hit the back of the net whilst the AI are eventually scoring with every effort.

I have used quite a few tactics in my last few saves and the same happens with each and every one.

That's exactly my point. Don't just make random changes. If you don't know why you're doing badly, how can you fix it?

If it happens as you're describing, then it is because teams will play more and more defensively against you and rather wait for the rare counter attack. What you need to do is play smarter and more patient with plenty of good movement from your players.

Again, you can get quite specific advice in the Tactics forum, if you want it.

[nobbysteelers]

That's exactly my point. Don't just make random changes. If you don't know why you're doing badly, how can you fix it?

If it happens as you're describing, then it is because teams will play more and more defensively against you and rather wait for the rare counter attack. What you need to do is play smarter and more patient with plenty of good movement from your players.

Again, you can get quite specific advice in the Tactics forum, if you want it.

I appreciate your trying to help, but I have actually read quite a lot of the threads already in the Tactics Forum and whilst there does seem to be a lot of advice given, I have also seen a lot of "its up to you to decide" when people are clearly struggling and needing a definitive answer.

It seems the only way to play beyond a couple of seasons in this years FM is to spend all your time trying to work out what FM, the AI and the ME want you to do, which again does not make for a good experience.

The frustration is that it doesn't appear tactical, its crazy that I can have 30 shots create 12 ccc's 8 hc's and lose to an own goal when the opposition haven't had a shot on target all game and then to make it worse be told that it was tactical. To be honest even if it WAS tactical for the ME to even be creating matches like that shows a complete lack of improvement from previous FM's. Surely it would be wise to have an ME that provides a 2d or 3d game of football in which you can understand WHY you are winning/losing/drawing, whether it be by luck, judgement, a continuation of good form v's bad etc, etc, this would make sense and I think FM'ers would approve and you would have a lot less angry FM'ers.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Cougar2010]

The frustration is that it doesn't appear tactical, its crazy that I can have 30 shots create 12 ccc's 8 hc's and lose to an own goal when the opposition haven't had a shot on target all game and then to make it worse be told that it was tactical. To be honest even if it WAS tactical for the ME to even be creating matches like that shows a complete lack of improvement from previous FM's. Surely it would be wise to have an ME that provides a 2d or 3d game of football in which you can understand WHY you are winning/losing/drawing, whether it be by luck, judgement, a continuation of good form v's bad etc, etc, this would make sense and I think FM'ers would approve and you would have a lot less angry FM'ers.

Looking at your screenshots I would tend to agree its not tactical.

Simply put you just didn't put the ball in the net, it looks like it was one of those days, call it bad luck if you like.

The bottom line is though that this is perfectly normal and happens in real life so its something you should get used to and expect to happen at times in FM. Even the very best teams IRL generally only win around 70% of matches despite dominating.

[HUNT3R]

If it happens once or twice a season, it could be luck, your players being nervous or complacent, your striker an off day in front of goal, the defender making a mistake to give away the goal... it could be anything. There's enough feedback in a game to be able to see most of these.

If it is happening regularly, which it sounds like it is in your case, it is tactical in 99.99% of the cases.

[nobbysteelers]

Looking at your screenshots I would tend to agree its not tactical.

Simply put you just didn't put the ball in the net, it looks like it was one of those days, call it bad luck if you like.

The bottom line is though that this is perfectly normal and happens in real life so its something you should get used to and expect to happen at times in FM. Even the very best teams IRL generally only win around 70% of matches despite dominating.

That's the thing though its NOTHING like real life. Don't get me wrong these games do occur IRL but nothing like under the same circumstances in FM. For a start these kinds of games pretty much even themselves out over a season or three IRL, but that's just not the case in FM. In my longest save of 9 seasons(in a previous patch) in over 500 matches only ONCE did one of these games finish in my favour, yet I lose/draw a dozen or more like this every season.

In FM if I played as Man City for instance I would practically torture every single side that turned up at the Etihad, but IRL that is far from the case. Many games are a lot closer and its usually the quality of the players at City's disposal that makes the difference. Even away in FM I can clearly dominate almost every game even against the likes of Utd and Chelsea, this again is much different to RL as again, many of City's away wins are often down to the extra bit of quality in their squad.

So your assumption that this is anything like RL is completely wrong(i'm not being clever, just pointing out that it is incorrect)

As for HUNT3R's suggestion of it being tactical, if that IS in fact the issue, then it doesn't say much for the ME does it?

Again, IRL I can watch ANY game of football and be able to say at the end of it if the result was reached because of luck(good or bad), a poor refereeing decision, a poor/good performance, or through good/bad tactics, or even a 100 other reasons, that is not the case in FM, or if it is, then the suggestion that the issue is tactical is moot because every bit of feedback I get from the game tells me otherwise.

If I lose to a "freak" or "fluke" goal, or an own goal, or a penalty which was my opponents only shot of the game, or because my keeper kicked the ball straight to the opposing striker for a tap in, etc, etc, etc, then NONE of that is tactical and we should not be made to believe so, as it happens this is how 80% of the goals I concede are scored, so we can conclude that in at least 80% of circumstances it is definitely not a tactical issue.

Just to point out at the other end of the so called "tactical issues" the creating of many ccc's and hc's that are being missed. To be creating so many great chances and not scoring them is also NOT tactical, in no sense can this be deemed so. You can't have it both ways. I watch the games and the kind of chances I see my players miss are identical to those being scored by the AI at a far healthier rate. It is also not a player issue, because i'm just as likely to see my World Class striker miss easy chance after easy chance as I am Peter Crouch.

I believe the issue is in the way the ME calculates results, there is a major issue here and the fact that apart from taking away a lot of the tactical options in the game, the ME has pretty much remained the same for a long long time is the answer.

In a previous save I had Jordan Rhodes as my lone striker, he scored 20 more goals than the leagues next top scorer, yet his goals/shots percentage was half that of any of the other top 9 strikers. Strangely despite being the leagues top scorer(by a mile) for 5 straight seasons, at the age of just 28(in his prime) he was deemed just a 2 start player compared to my other striker who had 3 and a half stars, yet was lucky to score a goal every 5 games, but anyway, that's another story.

[HUNT3R]

We don't know how clear cut any of those CCCs or Half Chance were. We can only work with what you're telling us. If you want to investigate this further, open a thread about it, but show the tactics you're using. In fact, show as much information as you can. The more you give us, the quicker we'll get to an answer for you.

[nobbysteelers]

If it happens once or twice a season, it could be luck, your players being nervous or complacent, your striker an off day in front of goal, the defender making a mistake to give away the goal... it could be anything. There's enough feedback in a game to be able to see most of these.

If it is happening regularly, which it sounds like it is in your case, it is tactical in 99.99% of the cases.

Sorry to post again, but I just remembered something else that makes no sense, which I believe is causing more problems within the ME.

I recently read somewhere on here that if a striker misses a couple of easy chances in a game, this will make it harder for him to score when his next chance comes along, but I think this is completely backwards, a striker(a good striker anyway) will be aware that the next shot he has has MORE chance of going in NOT less, because any decent striker knows that he will knock one of these good chances in eventually if they keep coming and I've seen games where my striker has had 18 shots at goal. It is a misconception that the players efforts will get worse and worse as if he would somehow suffer a panic attack at the very thought of having another shot.

Again I think this misconception is linked to players in the game going on ridiculously bad runs and going 20 odd games without a goal, which is yet another serious issue with the game. Strikers who go on ridiculously long bad runs without a goal are those playing for clubs who don't create a lot of chances to start with.

[HUNT3R]

What striker wouldn't lose even just a little confidence after missing a few sitters in a game? You can give him some confidence or take the pressure off with a team talk or private chat.

[nobbysteelers]

We don't know how clear cut any of those CCCs or Half Chance were. We can only work with what you're telling us. If you want to investigate this further, open a thread about it, but show the tactics you're using. In fact, show as much information as you can. The more you give us, the quicker we'll get to an answer for you.

I do, according to what i'm shown they are largely unmissable, unless its a problem with the game showing the chances to be much easier than they actually were, but again, if that was to be the case, that would prove that the idea of being able to work out what you are doing wrong by watching games would be completely wrong.

There is just too much confusion in the current version of FM, this is why it is no longer fun to play long term games that in the past would have gone on and on and on.

[Cougar2010]

That's the thing though its NOTHING like real life. Don't get me wrong these games do occur IRL but nothing like under the same circumstances in FM. For a start these kinds of games pretty much even themselves out over a season or three IRL, but that's just not the case in FM. In my longest save of 9 seasons(in a previous patch) in over 500 matches only ONCE did one of these games finish in my favour, yet I lose/draw a dozen or more like this every season.

Which games are you expecting to "Even themselves out"??

For these sorts of games to be "evened out" you need the opposition team to be dominating the stats, in your 9 seasons/500 matches how many did the opposition dominate the stats in? How many of those matches did you take points from? Is it a similar % as to when you dominate the stats?

In FM if I played as Man City for instance I would practically torture every single side that turned up at the Etihad, but IRL that is far from the case. Many games are a lot closer and its usually the quality of the players at City's disposal that makes the difference. Even away in FM I can clearly dominate almost every game even against the likes of Utd and Chelsea, this again is much different to RL as again, many of City's away wins are often down to the extra bit of quality in their squad.

Every game is close when you don't put the ball in the net, this was just talked about by the commentators in the Germany/Algeria match last night.

Stats don't win games, goals do. You can dominate 89mins of a match but if you don't score the opposition always have a chance to steal the points.

So your assumption that this is anything like RL is completely wrong(i'm not being clever, just pointing out that it is incorrect)

and I totally disagree with all due respect.

As for HUNT3R's suggestion of it being tactical, if that IS in fact the issue, then it doesn't say much for the ME does it?

When HUNT3R says tactical I suspect he is talking in very broad terms and it encompasses every single little input you have into a match. This includes player selection, formation, roles, duties, team instructions, player instructions, team talks, media comments & the changes you make during a match.

As a manager your job is to setup your team to give them the best chance of winning. However even if we do lots right it still doesn't guarantee the win, just like real life.

In your case it looks like you are doing lots of things right, you are controlling the matches & creating chances but not winning all the games. The first question has to be what % of games are you dropping points in? if it is 30% or less then this is perfectly normal and matches real life statistics. If it is more than 30% then you are either going through a period of bad luck or you need to ask yourself is there any area you can improve slightly to turn a few more of those draws/losses into wins.

Again, IRL I can watch ANY game of football and be able to say at the end of it if the result was reached because of luck(good or bad), a poor refereeing decision, a poor/good performance, or through good/bad tactics, or even a 100 other reasons, that is not the case in FM, or if it is, then the suggestion that the issue is tactical is moot because every bit of feedback I get from the game tells me otherwise.

and I can do that for the most part with FM as well.

Feedback has been spoken about numerous times this year and there have been several discussions on how it can be improved. Even so there is already a lot of feedback which begs the question are you missing it? or ignoring it? How do you watch the matches?

If I lose to a "freak" or "fluke" goal, or an own goal, or a penalty which was my opponents only shot of the game, or because my keeper kicked the ball straight to the opposing striker for a tap in, etc, etc, etc, then NONE of that is tactical and we should not be made to believe so, as it happens this is how 80% of the goals I concede are scored, so we can conclude that in at least 80% of circumstances it is definitely not a tactical issue.

The opposition goal isn't tactical but the fact it allows the opposition to take points off you could be.

If you score two goals in a match then the opposition scoring a "Freak" goal, penalty, set piece etc means nothing because you will still win 2-1. If you don't put the ball in the net then those goals could mean you drawing or losing a match.

The question then becomes are you converting a reasonable % of your chances and how can you improve your conversion % which is in broad terms tactical.

[nobbysteelers]

What striker wouldn't lose even just a little confidence after missing a few sitters in a game? You can give him some confidence or take the pressure off with a team talk or private chat.

He would simply concentrate more, so that he didn't make the same mistake again next time around. A striker who is used to getting a lot of chances will always be aware that his next chance is just around the corner and be confident that he will knock one in before long.

[HUNT3R]

Nobbysteelers, you haven't mentioned what formation you play, but what are your 1 or 2 main goal scorers' stats in terms of shots/goals? Your team shots/goals ratio?

Are you a top team in the league now?

Cougar, you're of course correct about what I meant.

[forameuss]

I recently read somewhere on here that if a striker misses a couple of easy chances in a game, this will make it harder for him to score when his next chance comes along, but I think this is completely backwards, a striker(a good striker anyway) will be aware that the next shot he has has MORE chance of going in NOT less, because any decent striker knows that he will knock one of these good chances in eventually if they keep coming and I've seen games where my striker has had 18 shots at goal. It is a misconception that the players efforts will get worse and worse as if he would somehow suffer a panic attack at the very thought of having another shot.

I'm sorry, but that is complete rubbish. Like, proper rubbish.

Many players in World football are confidence players, and if they miss a few, then they're very likely to miss more. I wouldn't have thought that was even up for debate, but seems you disagree. It's just human nature though - a couple of misses, and suddenly that voice in your head is telling you you're going to miss. Even a split second of hesitation, and maybe the keeper reaches you and stops the chance. Personally - and as a disclaimer, I'm not a professional footballer, so I'm sure you'll just discount it - if I've scored a decent enough goal, I'm much more likely to try something more "off the wall" than if I've just missed one. Often if you miss, it'll come down to either trying too hard, or just having one of those games where it bounces everywhere but where you want. If you score, suddenly those outside of the boot long passes are curling into the path of onrunning strikers, and you're going on mazy runs through the entire team. Confidence is a very real thing, and to be honest it's baffling that you describe it as a "misconception".

Alex puts it best though...

I guess Torres (24 match scoring drought), Ba (14 matches), Cisse (11 matches), van Persie (11 matches), Lee Hughes (23 matches), Tim Cahill (30 matches), Forlan (23 matches) were not all that good before they started to struggle in front of goal.

Scoring droughts happen & more often than many people actually realise.

Forlan is one that immediately jumps to mind. I remember when he finally scored, from the penalty spot IIRC, and the relief and celebration following it was massive. He just could not score, no matter what he did, before that. He wasn't a bad player, just on a bad run.

I'd also add that I saw it a few times this season specifically with Sturridge and Suarez. Sturridge especially (he's always been bad with it). If things don't go their way, you'll see them huffing and puffing, and they don't play as well. It's getting into their minds, and affecting their game. Ronaldo is similar, but then he's such a monster that he just takes that frustration and belts one in from 40 yards...

[nobbysteelers]

I guess Torres (24 match scoring drought), Ba (14 matches), Cisse (11 matches), van Persie (11 matches), Lee Hughes (23 matches), Tim Cahill (30 matches), Forlan (23 matches) were not all that good before they started to struggle in front of goal.

Scoring droughts happen & more often than many people actually realise.

I totally agree, but you misunderstand, IRL these players are not having many efforts in a game, certainly not close to those had in FM(there are way too many shots) where I regularly witness strikers having double figures worth of shots. You also failed to mention that those tally's above include substitute appearances and players being subbed etc.

Yes, if a player was only managing 1 or 2 efforts a game(if he's lucky) then he will find it much more difficult to find the back of the net, but i'm sure I mentioned this?(will look back)

[nobbysteelers]

I'm sorry, but that is complete rubbish. Like, proper rubbish.

Many players in World football are confidence players, and if they miss a few, then they're very likely to miss more. I wouldn't have thought that was even up for debate, but seems you disagree. It's just human nature though - a couple of misses, and suddenly that voice in your head is telling you you're going to miss. Even a split second of hesitation, and maybe the keeper reaches you and stops the chance. Personally - and as a disclaimer, I'm not a professional footballer, so I'm sure you'll just discount it - if I've scored a decent enough goal, I'm much more likely to try something more "off the wall" than if I've just missed one. Often if you miss, it'll come down to either trying too hard, or just having one of those games where it bounces everywhere but where you want. If you score, suddenly those outside of the boot long passes are curling into the path of onrunning strikers, and you're going on mazy runs through the entire team. Confidence is a very real thing, and to be honest it's baffling that you describe it as a "misconception".

Alex puts it best though...

Forlan is one that immediately jumps to mind. I remember when he finally scored, from the penalty spot IIRC, and the relief and celebration following it was massive. He just could not score, no matter what he did, before that. He wasn't a bad player, just on a bad run.

I'd also add that I saw it a few times this season specifically with Sturridge and Suarez. Sturridge especially (he's always been bad with it). If things don't go their way, you'll see them huffing and puffing, and they don't play as well. It's getting into their minds, and affecting their game. Ronaldo is similar, but then he's such a monster that he just takes that frustration and belts one in from 40 yards...

Its actually very, very true, its a shame that obvious issues within the ME and FM itself are being overlooked, I think this is because there are so many people who seem hell bent on defending the game at all cost, much to the games detriment.

A striker regularly managing lets say 6-12 shots a game and lets say 3 good/great chances will not go long without a goal.

What you and Alex are describing is a striker who has not been getting many starts due to him missing a COUPLE of sitters in previous games, then coming on for the last twenty minutes of games, or started in games with a 2nd string team against weaker opposition and barely scraping a single opportunity of a shot.

There is a vast, vast difference between the two.

[nobbysteelers]

I see where you're coming from, there probably could be more instances where out of form players are not actually getting a shot off in the first place due to indecision, poor control or not quite being in the right place at the right time.

Exactly, thank you, the problem in FM is that he's doing everything else right, still having loads of opportunities and getting in the right positions, its just his actual finishing that the game shows is off and like I said this is so very different to RL.

[nobbysteelers]

Actually Alex I think we have hit the nail on the head here and not just concerning strikers, this "bad form" where as in I dominate create a lot of chances and don't score and the AI create very few and nick an unlikely win is exactly the same thing. This would go a long way to answering most of the issues with the ME and why it is so utterly frustrating when it is happening on a regular basis.

The only problem I see is that it would be very difficult to put right.

[forameuss]

Its actually very, very true, its a shame that obvious issues within the ME and FM itself are being overlooked, I think this is because there are so many people who seem hell bent on defending the game at all cost, much to the games detriment.

No issue - as long as it is raised in the correct channels - is overlooked. And I haven't seen anyone "hell bent" on defending the game "at all costs". Most of these people just get that rap because they disagree with someone vocal.

[nobbysteelers]

No issue - as long as it is raised in the correct channels - is overlooked. And I haven't seen anyone "hell bent" on defending the game "at all costs". Most of these people just get that rap because they disagree with someone vocal.

I practically read through this entire thread before I even joined up and I found that people were defending stuff that the SI team had in fact noted as an issue. This is very bad for the game because many problems will be overlooked because of it.

[nobbysteelers]

I do believe that you're incorrect about you claim that the players I mentioned were not regular starters when they were having trouble hitting the net, a quick check shows that during his 24 match run Torres started & played for over 75 minutes in at least 13 games, Cisse had 6 starts in his 11 match run & van Persie started 6 games during his goal drought.

I don't wish to be rude, but what you have just posted kind of proves me right not wrong. Those players you mentioned only started about half of those games where they went without scoring. I bet if you looked at how many times they were substituted in those starts would reduce the number again quite dramatically. I would also take a bet that they were having far fewer chances than those strikers are likely to get in FM.

[nobbysteelers]

As I stated those were starts where they played for a minimum of 75 minutes, in RvP's case he actually played the full 90 in 5 or the 6 matches

Again, no wish to be rude, but that is still half of what you first suggested and i'm sure you are as aware as I am that a 5 minute substitute appearance would also go down as another game without a goal. It would also be interesting to find out how many chances they actually had during these goal droughts.

Have you given any thoughts to this.............

Actually Alex I think we have hit the nail on the head here and not just concerning strikers, this "bad form" where as in I dominate create a lot of chances and don't score and the AI create very few and nick an unlikely win is exactly the same thing. This would go a long way to answering most of the issues with the ME and why it is so utterly frustrating when it is happening on a regular basis.

The only problem I see is that it would be very difficult to put right.

[nobbysteelers]

The opposition goal isn't tactical but the fact it allows the opposition to take points off you could be.

If you score two goals in a match then the opposition scoring a "Freak" goal, penalty, set piece etc means nothing because you will still win 2-1. If you don't put the ball in the net then those goals could mean you drawing or losing a match.

The question then becomes are you converting a reasonable % of your chances and how can you improve your conversion % which is in broad terms tactical.

I largely score the most goals and concede the least, this could suggest that the game itself is not calculating results in a proficient manner, this may well be down to the actual confines of the game itself.

I concede about 90% of my goals through penalties, free kicks, own goal, corners and unforced individual player errors, whereas I only score about 30% of my goals in this manner. Again this would suggest an abnormality within the game and not a tactical issue.

[nobbysteelers]

I'm not all that involved in the match engine so anything that I might have to say would be bordering in speculation based on my own experiences.

I do believe that many of your issues will have a direct link to your tactics & man-management, that's not to say that there aren't issues with the match engine as that would be a false presumption, but as a rule what you are seeing is more often than not a result of the users input or a perception bias caused by the truncated nature of a season in FM. What might take a few days to play through in FM takes over 250 days irl so by day 240 what happened on day 23 might not be all that clear but in FM the memory is very fresh & the data easily accessible.

Is there any way to speak to someone who IS involved in the Match Engine?

Thanks

[Loki679]

Cisse was playing about 40 yards away from any other Newcastle player and getting balls hoofed at his head by our defence by the way. Definitely a tactical issue

[forameuss]

I practically read through this entire thread before I even joined up and I found that people were defending stuff that the SI team had in fact noted as an issue. This is very bad for the game because many problems will be overlooked because of it.

Well doesn't the fact that SI have acknowledged it as an issue pretty much suggest that the problems haven't been overlooked?

[nobbysteelers]

Actually is does point directly at your tactics & to be more precise that your tactics are working, your opponents are having to rely on set-piece situations or good fortune to score whereas your players are creating & scoring most of your goals from open play.

Is there a chance that your own expectations are a tad unrealistic? Would you mind posting a screenshot of results & league table so that we can look at the entirety of your seasons efforts.

If you have specific issues & can provide examples by uploading copies of the match pkm files then the bugs forum is where you need to be posting.

Absolutely

Season 1 Table

Results

Season 2 Table

Results

So here is what keeps happening in my saves.

I have a great first season whoever I play as, but then as the seasons progress although my squad/staff greatly improves and I create more chances and concede less, I score less goals and concede more.

This is generally a domestic issue, funnily enough in Europe I have found it very easy and can win the CL with my second string squad. If/when I do lose it is generally always in the same fashion(as shown in screenshots) although I am outplayed now and again, which I am absolutely fine with losing those games(unless I go on a run of bad results caused by not winning the kinds of games shown in the screenshots).

[nobbysteelers]

Well doesn't the fact that SI have acknowledged it as an issue pretty much suggest that the problems haven't been overlooked?

I'm talking about issues in general, SI have not acknowledged this particular problem as an issue.

[forameuss]

I'm talking about issues in general, SI have not acknowledged this particular problem as an issue.

And if it is one - and is raised in the correct places (clue, for bugs, this isn't one of them) - then SI will acknowledge it. 100% of people could disagree it's an issue, but all that matters is what SI think. Since they kind of know best.

[nobbysteelers]

It does look like teams are no longer under-estimating you in season 2 which is to be expected given your massively surprising title win, the end result is that teams are probably setting up with a stronger defensive shape than they were in the first season so the onus is placed upon you to adjust your tactics in a way that you do not get bottled up in & around the opposition penalty area (I'm guessing that this is what you're seeing), this can result in attacking players becoming more frustrated & taking shots when a more considered approach is wiser while your defence is exposed to counter-attacks that they are mentally not prepared for.

This of course is all guess work on my part & a 2nd place finish is hardly a failure for a club like Southampton, out of interest what highlight option do you use? Have you spent time watching a full game to at least the opening in full match mode? This is the easiest why to spot where your system is not working, you can use the analysis tools post-match but there is no substitute for watching the full game.

That would make sense, but I've had the same thing happen with Chelsea, City and Utd, where I have smashed the league in season 1 which is pretty much what is expected, so teams would not set up any different in season2. This also does not explain me creating more and better chances whilst conceding less of both and scoring less but conceding more.

If I was conceding largely from counter attacks I would again agree to this being tactical, but all that happens is we concede a lot of "cheap" goals and miss more and more easy chances. Like I said, with a better squad and better staff things should only improve not get worse.

There is something happening in season 2 and onwards within the game that is making a mockery of performances and results.

I have watched many games in full and it shows no clear events that are causing this problem.

[HUNT3R]

You don't seem to be doing too badly, nobbysteelers. Exactly how many games a season (out of the 38) is there a problem where you're not putting away your chances? I also asked earlier for the shots/goal stats of your team and main 1 or 2 goal scorers. That's another starting point.

Are you using an Attacking mentality for your tactic perhaps?

[nobbysteelers]

And if it is one - and is raised in the correct places (clue, for bugs, this isn't one of them) - then SI will acknowledge it. 100% of people could disagree it's an issue, but all that matters is what SI think. Since they kind of know best.

I read most of this thread before posting and lots of people have brought it up previously, but from what I read everyone connected to SI are saying its 100% tactical, so i'm guessing they won't care what I have to say sadly.

[HUNT3R]

There is something happening in season 2 and onwards within the game that is making a mockery of performances and results.

They ARE setting up differently against you. Maybe you won't see it in the formation, but they will be more cautious. That I can guarantee.