Call me Crazy but Ronaldinho in his Prime was better than Messi

[charlo116]

i don't know about Baltazar but sanchez was a very clinical striker Messi and ronaldinho have never played in that way so for messi to score i think it was 47 goals across all competitions for Barca shows his domination. Ronaldinho was brilliant but imo was never as dominant as Messi is now.

[Tele Santana]

Charlo,

I saw Sanchez play live and he was great, but hardly anything close to Ronaldo or Romario, for example. Baltazar was a target man, strong, good in the air, with good intelligence and decent skill. This is why I labelled a curiosity thing.

I think Messi is great and he had two fantastic seasons. But still Ronaldinho has won a World Cup with his team. As I mentioned, I firmly believe he will be more succesful than Ronaldinho if he keeps his mindset. If he´s determined, he could become better than Maradona, imo.

Cheers,

Tele

[Juve4EVA]

The only thing that I agree with Uquillas is that Zidane was and is indeed better than Messi is.

People think Messi is better than Zidane?

[charlo116]

Charlo,

I saw Sanchez play live and he was great, but hardly anything close to Ronaldo or Romario, for example. Baltazar was a target man, strong, good in the air, with good intelligence and decent skill. This is why I labelled a curiosity thing.

I think Messi is great and he had two fantastic seasons. But still Ronaldinho has won a World Cup with his team. As I mentioned, I firmly believe he will be more succesful than Ronaldinho if he keeps his mindset. If he´s determined, he could become better than Maradona, imo.

Cheers,

Tele

all i know is that Messi has already won more trophies than Ronaldinho the only major difference is Messi hasn't won a world cup, but as France and Italy have so beautifully demonstrated at a world cup individuals mean little.

[Cinnabon09]

Disagree. Messi is the superior player. He has scored heaps and his technical skills are on a higher level imo

[Eoghan_M]

People think Messi is better than Zidane?

I'd have him ahead of Zidane, only player of my lifetime better than Messi was fat Ronaldo in his prime.

[Venn]

You can't judge Messi in a team being managed by a clown like Maradona. The entire way the Argentina team was set up meant that Messi was the only real creative player in the team, so opposing teams could just focus on nullifying him. He's a brilliant player, but no one can cope with being marked constantly by 2 or 3 players.

That's how Riquelme's had to play for the last ten years and he's not always nullified.

Riquelme > Messi > *

Messi hardly an Argie ffs

[Butts]

Riquelme better than Messi?

[Tele Santana]

I like Riquelme a lot, but I´d have Messi at my team if I had to pick one of them, tbh.

[Juve4EVA]

I'd have him ahead of Zidane, only player of my lifetime better than Messi was fat Ronaldo in his prime.

I don't think I have ever seen a player capable of dominating a game like Zidane who can carry a team through almost any circumstance.

[Venn]

Riquelme better than Messi?

I like Riquelme a lot, but I´d have Messi at my team if I had to pick one of them, tbh.

If we had Riquelme in this WC, never mind tactics and a better defense, we'd have beaten Germany if we were in a situation like the first 10-15 minutes of second half.

I've seen every game Riquelme's ever played in professionally. Just don't try to argue there's been anyone better than him, consistently, in the past 10 years. In this, I won't listen, fwiw

[Venn]

I don't think I have ever seen a player capable of dominating a game like Zidane who can carry a team through almost any circumstance.

Riquelme, man! I've seen him do it loads of times. Him, and Palermo.

[gaga_4_parma]

Venn is right!

[Tele Santana]

So, Venn, why has been Boca performing so bad lately?

[Venn]

In spite of Riquelme and Palermo, who, as usual, have been great.

Our defense is a shambles. Which is why we've signed 5 new defenders and one GK in the past month. And we have no forwards. Gaitán never proved himself, and Mouche's just not good enough. Viatri, sometimes he performs. We just lack quality overall

[Uquillas]

In spite of Riquelme and Palermo, who, as usual, have been great.

Our defense is a shambles. Which is why we've signed 5 new defenders and one GK in the past month. And we have no forwards. Gaitán never proved himself, and Mouche's just not good enough. Viatri, sometimes he performs. We just lack quality overall

We loaned (Barcelona SC) Noir from Boca and he has been very bad this season

[Venn]

Well we're struggling in the league AND you loan a forward from us? That should've been clear enough

[Uquillas]

In spite of Riquelme and Palermo, who, as usual, have been great.

Our defense is a shambles. Which is why we've signed 5 new defenders and one GK in the past month. And we have no forwards. Gaitán never proved himself, and Mouche's just not good enough. Viatri, sometimes he performs. We just lack quality overall

Well we're struggling in the league AND you loan a forward from us? That should've been clear enough

They were going to bring brazilian Forward but at the last Minute they brought Noir, and he doesn't even have a buy clause when the loan ends in december, not that we would probably use it anyway

From what videos I saw of him before his injuries, he seemed like he had a bright future, but now this kid is very fragile, almost always ends up on the floor when facing a defense and is not as fast as I thought he would be, and doesn't dribble all that great either. I have yet see him beat a defender on a 1 on 1.

[beezer1967]

Ronaldinho was beter than messi,as was Maradona and Fat Ronaldo.

[Splendifornia]

Ronaldinho is just barely in the top five for Brazil over the last decade and a half.

Those saying he was better than Messi played too much FIFA circa 2005.

[gaga_4_parma]

Ronaldinho is just barely in the top five for Brazil over the last decade and a half.

Those saying he was better than Messi played too much FIFA circa 2005.

Nonsense...

Ronaldinho IS one of only 2 player to EVER to manage to get applause in an El Clásico from Madrid fans...the other is Maradona...

That alone is a standout moment from my football memories...I had shivers when I saw it.

Imo Messi needs to step up more...he can't keep hiding behind this "I'm marked out of the game" excuse. He needs to really sort out that side of his game and then I think we have arrived to a point where Messi can only stop Messi...

Ronaldinho lost his hunger and Barcelona do tend to burn players out out historically...but during those years where Ronaldinho played deary he was absolutely fab...the last player to do that to me was Fat Ronaldo...

[Stampler]

Messi is on the decline already, just like ronny...better watch out for the coming midfield general özil and müller of course. and schweinsteiger proves now he is world class and one league with iniesta and xavi, even better at the moment than them

[Venn]

Yeah Schweinsteiger > Iniesta PLUS Xavi even.

[Stampler]

Yeah Schweinsteiger > Iniesta PLUS Xavi even.

spot on mate

[Deathorglory]

Not crazy at all. Messi is nowhere near his level yet. I don't think he ever will be.

One of these days I'm gonna go through every post djvandyke has ever made, and see if there is a single one that hasn't resulted in mass infuriation/controversy/facepalming.

[Venn]

Funny thing about this thread, I personally dislike Ronaldinho as much as I do Messi.

[Venn]

Just out of curiosity, how does Ronaldinho compare to Messi in FM ratings these days?

[yovan]

I understand that people from Argentina will say that Maradona was much better than Messi when he was 22. I mean, he's like a god for them, so even though it's not true, well, it's understandable.

But saying Riquelme IS better, I mean, like NOW. A 18 year old Iniesta put Riquelme, who was in his prime, on the bench and look, it's not a shame, because Iniesta is the footballer that understands the game better in the world.

PS: Why couldn't Riquelme beat an inferior Germany team in 2006, btw?

[yovan]

I regret posting that already.

[PMLF]

Just out of curiosity, how does Ronaldinho compare to Messi in FM ratings these days?

It's around this:

CA-wise Messi is 190 or so and Ronaldinho around 160.

[Deathorglory]

Why is it I'm constantly shocked that many users on these forums don't actually seem to play FM.

[Venn]

I understand that people from Argentina will say that Maradona was much better than Messi when he was 22. I mean, he's like a god for them, so even though it's not true, well, it's understandable.

But saying Riquelme IS better, I mean, like NOW. A 18 year old Iniesta put Riquelme, who was in his prime, on the bench and look, it's not a shame, because Iniesta is the footballer that understands the game better in the world.

PS: Why couldn't Riquelme beat an inferior Germany team in 2006, btw?

I said I wouldn't argue about Riquelme cause you either understand him or you don't. If you do, you use him like you have to, and will win anything. He's the best instrument you can have in the game of football and will be until he hangs up his boots. Cheers.

[Venn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FU6NrqW4jg

[Crazy_T]

argentina clearly would've won the world cup if riquelme and palermo both started.

[charlo116]

In spite of Riquelme and Palermo, who, as usual, have been great.

Our defense is a shambles. Which is why we've signed 5 new defenders and one GK in the past month. And we have no forwards. Gaitán never proved himself, and Mouche's just not good enough. Viatri, sometimes he performs. We just lack quality overall

wasn't that argentina'sproblem though? Their defence just wasn't up to the task of containing the germans so Riquelme wold have made no difference.

[Venn]

argentina clearly would've won the world cup if riquelme and palermo both started.

Don't be silly, of course not. Our problems go way beyond any one or two specific players. I never claimed otherwise.

wasn't that argentina'sproblem though? Their defence just wasn't up to the task of containing the germans so Riquelme wold have made no difference.

Precisely. When all you have going for you is that you can score lots of goals, then make sure you do score them. If they had turned their chances into goals the story would have been much different. If you can't defend, though, you just can't win a competition, eventually you'll hit a low and this is what happens.

[Venn]

Fat Ronnie

[charlo116]

Precisely. When all you have going for you is that you can score lots of goals, then make sure you do score them. If they had turned their chances into goals the story would have been much different. If you can't defend, though, you just can't win a competition, eventually you'll hit a low and this is what happens.

They hardly had chances, the attacking layers struggled to get into the game because Argentina's defence didn't provide enough stability to support the midfield and attack, new attacking players wouldn't make a difference, they needed to be more organised at the back.

[Venn]

But that's what I'm saying, too. Though chances yeah, they had them, and they had possession in front of goal and lots of passing opportunities that they failed to take. 'Chances' in the way you consider them can come in a split second with a little touch of genius (and bad defending), see Robinho's goal v Holland or Saviola's goal v Ivory Coast in WC2006, to name a couple.

[Splendifornia]

Nonsense...

Ronaldinho IS one of only 2 player to EVER to manage to get applause in an El Clásico from Madrid fans...the other is Maradona...

That alone is a standout moment from my football memories...I had shivers when I saw it.

Imo Messi needs to step up more...he can't keep hiding behind this "I'm marked out of the game" excuse. He needs to really sort out that side of his game and then I think we have arrived to a point where Messi can only stop Messi...

Ronaldinho lost his hunger and Barcelona do tend to burn players out out historically...but during those years where Ronaldinho played deary he was absolutely fab...the last player to do that to me was Fat Ronaldo...

Well that single anecdote has me sorted out. Will just repress my memory of watching both play for several years.

[charlo116]

But that's what I'm saying, too. Though chances yeah, they had them, and they had possession in front of goal and lots of passing opportunities that they failed to take. 'Chances' in the way you consider them can come in a split second with a little touch of genius (and bad defending), see Robinho's goal v Holland or Saviola's goal v Ivory Coast in WC2006, to name a couple.

exactly so riquelme would have made no difference because they really didn't have enough possesion in germany's half to counter the four goals germany scored. I also felt like Germany could have stepped it up a notch or two if they needed to and i'm sure they will against spain.

[jmr]

One thing football supporters have is extremely short memories. It was only 2 months ago everyone was creaming over Messi, calling him one of the best players ever and rightly so after that spell where he scored hat trick after hat trick. He's atleast as good as what Ronaldhino was in his prime, certainly not worse. Once La Liga starts again I wonder how long it takes before we get the "Messi, best player ever?" thread again.

[Meitheisman]

I'm with jmr on this one.

[Cinnabon09]

I'd say FM is about right. Ronaldinho CA/PA =

160/190

Messi CA/PA =

190/195

[Plumble]

Messi is better than Ronaldinho but just because he has potential doesn't mean he is going to turn into the greatest player ever. He may get worse. How many players have had the potential and flopped. Just because he is young doesn't mean he is going to get better.

[RubenJ]

how much better do people expect him to become?

47 goals last season is about as good as it gets I reckon, might do another season with a few more but I doubt we'll be seeing any significant increase in goals (and assists for that matter) because it's almost impossible.

[charlo116]

how much better do people expect him to become?

47 goals last season is about as good as it gets I reckon, might do another season with a few more but I doubt we'll be seeing any significant increase in goals (and assists for that matter) because it's almost impossible.

I think people will only expect him to get better for Argentina.

[Butts]

Messi is on the decline already, just like ronny...better watch out for the coming midfield general özil and müller of course. and schweinsteiger proves now he is world class and one league with iniesta and xavi, even better at the moment than them

Exactly with these players Germany will cruise to World Cup success, oh wait...

[iamjerome]

messi on the decline already after a 47 goal season.

[jmr]

Haha watch out for Oezil and Mueller guys. Sorry pal but those two players will never be as good as Messi or Ronaldo, not even close.