The Art of Numbers, not attributes - A journey extracting the best out of my players

[Rashidi]

Once the scout reports come in I take a look at them where there are videos I watch them too. Konta is the first. While he is physically good,  his lack of bravery may be an issue, he does use his left foot. In terms of CA he is some way behind my own players

 

The scouts seem to love Navarro, they must see a big price tag and go for it. Personally his CA might be good, his lack of jumping reach could be an issue. I do want my IF to bully the opposition fullbacks, he doesn't really fit my needs

 

The numbers for Leones were good, he had 1.799 striking score, which is impressive for me when I usually think 1.3 is a sign of a good striker. He has jumping reach, but he doesn't really hound defences a lot. His tackling ratio is 0.38 which is probably the lowest amongst the group of players, this could come down to either Konta or Leone, but I need to wait for the rest of the scout reports to decide. Both players will come in on their left foot, but Leone already has cuts inside as a trait and he can operate on both flanks, which does give me options. Leone will also adapt quickly as he will fit into the core group of players while Konta could take some time adjusting.


 

[robot_9x3]

@Rashidi I think that is super interesting but it's somewhat hard to play that way in FM because FM is not geared towards the stats focus right?
Also I remember seeing a video on stats and that some are faulty in game have you encountered something like that?

Maybe I didn't catch that but how do you filter out players who perform great but in a league not comparable(significantly weaker) to yours?
Because there might be a a high performer with great stats but a considerable skill gap which only shows when the player has better opposition.

[Rashidi]

15 hours ago, robot_9x3 said:

I think that is super interesting but it's somewhat hard to play that way in FM because FM is not geared towards the stats focus right?
Also I remember seeing a video on stats and that some are faulty in game have you encountered something like that?

I think Football manager can improve the kind of statistics  it provides. At present those who want to play the game via stats need to understand what the stats actually mean. For example, the difference between a key header and a header. Or a key pass and a pass. For me its not that big of an issue, but to go into the game expecting a range of statistics for a specific role may be challenging for some people. If someone were to ask me the difference in stats for a BBM and a Mezzala, I would probably be scratching my head.

It will depend on how you want to use them I have a simple method. I divide stats into 3 broad groups, and then I just apply the stats I need for a specific position. I am finding it quite easy at the moment. Naturally without attributes showing you raise the level of difficulty.

Its important to pick the right leagues for example when you expect to be looking for a starter in a premiership side.  There will be variances between the FME and the QME, ( view only vs playable) so you need to scout the right leagues. Then you need to figure out if the player is playing at the desired level of competition. Currently I am looking for an IF and I have narrowed it down to 3 players, but one of the players is only 18, hes fantastic, the scouts love him and he is cheap, but I don't think he measures up to other players at top flight level.

This is the reason why for most people I would recommend using attributes, at least then the knowledge you develop by studying statistics only helps to cement your knowledge of the player

As far as filtering out players who may not be in a league comparable to yours, all you do is filter the right leagues.

[danielgear]

On 22/07/2022 at 10:14, Rashidi said:

I am not using any stars or ranges

In the introduction you said you weren’t using stars but In the latest screenshots there’s star ratings on all the reports. Just curious how you’re not using them? 

I think they can be skinned out easily enough if you wanted to do it properly. 

[Rashidi]

36 minutes ago, danielgear said:

I think they can be skinned out easily enough if you wanted to do it properly. 

Well I edited the post to reflect that I will be using the coach reports, stars are just an attribute range. And I think the "proper way" is the way you enjoy it. And this is how I enjoy the game. I want my coaches to assess the players and give me a rating of how they stack against players in the squad. I want to know if a coach thinks one player is considerably better than another. And I like to play it that way. 

A lot of people may not understand how to play completely clean even without star ratings, this is a way for me to show them how they can incorporate the understanding of statistics into the game.
 

To each their own.

[danielgear]

29 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Well I edited the post to reflect that I will be using the coach reports, stars are just an attribute range. And I think the "proper way" is the way you enjoy it. And this is how I enjoy the game. I want my coaches to assess the players and give me a rating of how they stack against players in the squad. I want to know if a coach thinks one player is considerably better than another. And I like to play it that way. 

A lot of people may not understand how to play completely clean even without star ratings, this is a way for me to show them how they can incorporate the understanding of statistics into the game.
 

To each their own.

Thats great if you want to play that way, just pointing out that’s not what you said and trying to help you play the way you wrote that you wanted to, by informing you the stars could be skinned out so you could go proper starless as you said you were doing. 
 

Enjoy the save 👍🏻

[Rashidi]

21 minutes ago, danielgear said:

just pointing out that’s not what you said and trying to help you play the way you wrote that you wanted to, by informing you the stars could be skinned out so you could go proper starless as you said you were doing. 

Oh yeah definitely, its such a challenge sans stars and attributes. I wouldn't know how to get those skinned out, and if you have a skin to recommend I would love to try it.

[danielgear]

2 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Oh yeah definitely, its such a challenge sans stars and attributes. I wouldn't know how to get those skinned out, and if you have a skin to recommend I would love to try it.

@wkdsoulis the man to ask 

[wkdsoul]

46 minutes ago, danielgear said:

@wkdsoulis the man to ask 

whats the question? 

[EnigMattic1]

8 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

whats the question? 

How to skin out stars and attributes.

[wkdsoul]

1 minute ago, EnigMattic1 said:

How to skin out stars and attributes.

yeah that can be done.  just replace the graphics files for stars in the icons folder.  (you can d/l a set and just replace the images with blank .pngs)

attributeless skins have been made.  the files for my one from 21 should still work as well. 

[EnigMattic1]

26 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

yeah that can be done.  just replace the graphics files for stars in the icons folder.  (you can d/l a set and just replace the images with blank .pngs)

attributeless skins have been made.  the files for my one from 21 should still work as well. 

You did an attributeless FM21 skin? That I didn't know. Is it on here?

[Rashidi]

Shouldn’t we remove scout recommendation values those from to A>E since they all tie closely to their CA values as well.?

[EnigMattic1]

7 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Shouldn’t we remove scout recommendation values those from to A>E since they all tie closely to their CA values as well.?

What could be put in place? How does the "Could be a leading player in 'X' Division" work? is that also tied to the CA value?

[wkdsoul]

18 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

You did an attributeless FM21 skin? That I didn't know. Is it on here?

FM20 – ATTRIBUTELESS – FMWKDSOUL (wordpress.com)

i did that one with boxes. you can prob remove the image file from graphics/boxes/custom/attribute and it'll remove those as well. 

[danielgear]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Shouldn’t we remove scout recommendation values those from to A>E since they all tie closely to their CA values as well.?

I’ve never found them to be consistently right, you’ll get a C grade from a great player because he doesn’t want to move or his CA can’t be improved on. As we know a 3* CA is first team standard and the scouting grade will be a C. It’s something that needs to be improved by SI. 
If you’re using stats only and no attributes the only thing scout reports should help you with is hidden information/descriptions about the player like enjoys big games, and the type of player he is bravery/fast etc.  

[wkdsoul]

Ive got some editing to do this week.  Make a list of all the stuff you want removing and i'll make a mod for it that you  can drop into the default skins etc. 

[danielgear]

4 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

Ive got some editing to do this week.  Make a list of all the stuff you want removing and i'll make a mod for it that you  can drop into the default skins etc. 

remove all attributes on all screens

remove stars on all screens

 

i think Rashidi wanted the scouting recommendation grade removed too

[wkdsoul]

12 minutes ago, danielgear said:

remove all attributes on all screens

remove stars on all screens

 

i think Rashidi wanted the scouting recommendation grade removed too

inc. staff? 

[danielgear]

22 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

inc. staff? 

No I don’t believe so. 

[Rashidi]

Scouting recommendation should also be removed because its a very good indicator of potential ability, if I am going to do something without stars then it rightly should not have any indication of even potential ability stars. The scout report is always too close to PA, the only thing it wont indicate is the CA. Staff World Rep is fine. I wouldn't bother for now though, the FM22 cycle is almost ending, it would be interesting to have for FM23. 

14 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

Ive got some editing to do this week.  Make a list of all the stuff you want removing and i'll make a mod for it that you  can drop into the default skins etc. 

[wkdsoul]

7 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Scouting recommendation should also be removed because its a very good indicator of potential ability, if I am going to do something without stars then it rightly should not have any indication of even potential ability stars. The scout report is always too close to PA, the only thing it wont indicate is the CA. Staff World Rep is fine. I wouldn't bother for now though, the FM22 cycle is almost ending, it would be interesting to have for FM23. 

k. gimme a shout in the beta and i'll put something together for you

[Rashidi]

If you had to choose the player most likely to finish as Best defender in the Serie A, who would you pick?

Would it be  the first 2?


or

 

Well the first player is Alessandro Bastoni, Inter’s defender, the second defender is Merih Demiral from Juventus and the last defender was Tobias Anderson from Palermo

 The player who finished as MVP was Tobias Anderson the player with the worst attributes. I am revealing the attributes now, as I always wanted this to be a learning process for those who wanted to use statistics in the game. And without revealing at least one player, it'd be hard to get some perspective. Don't worry, the rest of the players will remain a secret, till they find a new club or retire.

ATTRIBUTES VS PERFORMANCE

This is the game of football manager. It isn’t a game entirely of attributes,  and I am going to explain how he became the best defender. We applied statistics to our understanding of the game and we improved on our performances. In doing so we improved how the team played across the board and thereby put us in the position to win the title. Yes we won the title with some distinctly below average players. Tobias has been with the club for 10 years. He joined us as a wee lad at the age of 17. He made his first senior team appearance at 17 for Raufass in Norway and we immediately pounced on him because of the numbers he was generating.  So how did we go from a Europa finish to a title win, with largely the same players.

Last season wasn’t a bad one, we finished in Europa cup slots, if we had managed a better defensive performance we could have been in the top 4.

Our defence had done pretty well, our goals conceded was 1.16 vs and expected goals against per game of 1.33.  That number told me that either our keeper was outstanding or our defence as a whole was. We set out to improve on those numbers in our 2nd season.

I have a spreadsheet that tracks data from the league. I group performances into 3 broad categories. A defensive score which tracks all defensive actions, a creative score which tracks the chances created by players and a scoring metric that measures how well players are finishing open play shots.

The defensive score showed that our top two defenders were scoring 4.9 which wasn’t bad. It was a good number that season. However in that season I was usually pairing Lorenzo Pirola with Toby Anderson.  I had fallen victim to player feedback. Each player had told me that they liked the way Pirola organised his defence. However as a pair of defenders they were an inferior partnership to Ramiro Hernandez and Toby Anderson.

We needed changes so in the summer we secured the signature of Leones   We needed tactical options if we wanted to beat the best sides or at least make it harder for us to lose. We had been using the 4312 and the 433DM sporadically. Next season we would need to play the 433DM against the top 5 sides if were to make it harder for them and we could also use that in Europe.

Since the 433DM was a new system we ended up playing with it more to gain tactical familiarity, plus we had no issues switching between that and the other formations because we were essentially using the same players in different positions.

 

Our second season was phenomenal by any standard. We won the title despite losing a creative stalwart to an eight month injury. Next season we need to sign another Guti because he wont’ be available till March. 

Our tactical approach not only saw us lift the title but we put out some staggering numbers defensively.


 

We had improved on our defensive numbers. Our expected goals per game vs conceded had improved.  Our goals per game had also improved.

I compared how our defenders had done against the other defenders in the league and I was surprised

Only 3 defenders in the Serie A who had an average rating of 7 or higher put out a defensive score in excess of 5.  Demiral was outside the top 20.

Ultimately attributes alone don’t make for a good defence, its a collective effort. In goal our keeper was the second best in terms of expected goals prevented for the season. 

He saved 3 penalties, had a save ratio of 83% and expected goals prevented of 11.72.  He had an outstanding season and was instrumental in us winning the league title.

We used a statistical approach to improve our game. We did it by:

Identifying our weakness the season before - it was defensive
Coming up with a solution - We decided to strengthen our defensive play by using a formation that was also harder to beat.

There were some games where we had to become creative.

Towards the end of the season we lost our creative engine to a long term injury, and in the match against Bologna we also lost Tarcisio to a red card

Even with the sending off or Tarcisio we ended up taking the game to Bologna with 5 attacking duties, but that wasn’t enough.

Fiorentina was one of the must win games of the season, with the title at stake, only a win would do, we actually shifted to a Houdini-variant which has been tested on the Total Tactics Tester as one of the strongest tactics in the game and pulled out a 1-0 win.

Tactically some small little changes were also made to my systems.  We had to take the game to a lot of teams that wanted to sit back and defend.  Our defenders have some of the best clearances in the league. In other words they are good at bringing the ball out of defence. So I opted to take a lot more risk with them by asking them to dribble more.

This would allow us to break tiers with the defenders, they would dribble up the pitch encouraging our midfielders to push higher, this would draw players into pressing them thereby giving us more space. Naturally it was a risky move, if our defenders failed we would be giving up easy goals. It was a risky move, but we needed to break defensive teams down even more. It was not a strategy I used against top teams. 

Without knowing their statistics I would have never known to take this risk. In fact if I had played the game entirely by attributes, Tobias Sagsusten Anderson would have been transfer listed 3 seasons ago. Instead he has now captain and legend of the club. He has never given us less than the best and he has consistently been a top defender who gets better with age.
 

A video explaining everything including highlights of the changes I made is incoming. I hope you enjoyed the series, links to my excel spreadsheet will be in the video, for those who can't wait. I will update the post later with the links.  For now though, my kids are baying at the door.
 

 

 

[Cheez3y]

Nice stuff.

 

Sadly I cant give this one a shot in my current save.

The print page doenst work correctly for some people and Im one of the lucky people...

 

Its already reported for months

 

[Rashidi]

@Cheez3yIf you check the bugs thread I have posted a workaround.

[Cheez3y]

38 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

@Cheez3yIf you check the bugs thread I have posted a workaround.

Thank you very much.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

On 06/08/2022 at 18:33, Rashidi said:

The numbers for Leones were good, he had 1.799 striking score, which is impressive for me when I usually think 1.3 is a sign of a good striker. He has jumping reach, but he doesn't really hound defences a lot. His tackling ratio is 0.38 which is probably the lowest amongst the group of players, this could come down to either Konta or Leone, but I need to wait for the rest of the scout reports to decide. Both players will come in on their left foot, but Leone already has cuts inside as a trait and he can operate on both flanks, which does give me options. Leone will also adapt quickly as he will fit into the core group of players while Konta could take some time adjusting.


 

1st: great thread, fun to follow. As I was out of FM for quite some time, I didn't even know about moneyball. Don't have FM22, not sure FM21 is adequately suited for it (let alone myself). Trying to get myself pumped to get FM23 and start a new way of playing  (kids are getting older fortunately  )

Is there a way to take how the team plays into account? For example you say the low tackling ratio of Leones is worrying but wouldn't that stat be impacted by how the team plays? With a pressing team you might want to see higher numbers than a team that regroups after losing possession or even where they ask Leones to track back as quick as possible and find pockets of space to receive the ball by their midfield (lower line of engagement)? Does that make sense and do you account for it?

[Rashidi]

47 minutes ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

1st: great thread, fun to follow. As I was out of FM for quite some time, I didn't even know about moneyball. Don't have FM22, not sure FM21 is adequately suited for it (let alone myself). Trying to get myself pumped to get FM23 and start a new way of playing  (kids are getting older fortunately  )

Is there a way to take how the team plays into account? For example you say the low tackling ratio of Leones is worrying but wouldn't that stat be impacted by how the team plays? With a pressing team you might want to see higher numbers than a team that regroups after losing possession or even where they ask Leones to track back as quick as possible and find pockets of space to receive the ball by their midfield (lower line of engagement)? Does that make sense and do you account for it?

He had a low tackling ratio, his interceptions were good plus he has height. When the scout report came in, they said he had a competitive streak and I didn’t hesitate.

His very first game of the season, he tackles someone in the opponents third scores a goal. I love competitive steaks in wide attacking players.

You can account for attacking styles If your scouts send in videos of his performances, then you can make a rough judgement on how they are playing. And don’t forget not everyone might play the way you want so you are basically trying to build a profile of a player by stats alone so those videos do help a lot.

[PatrickReynolds]

Hey @Rashidi, been following you YT series and love the spreadsheets. Makes me realize I need to have a deeper understanding of what each stat means .

One I've been trying to nail down is Clearances. I took note when you said that Clearances means the defender is good at bringing the ball out of defense. In my mind, clearances were defenders hoofing it anywhere out of danger. I tried to use the analytical data to show me where clearances occured during the game, and watch a highlight of said play. However, looks like while clearances are captured in the stats, they don't save them for viewing later in the detailed match analysis, unlike interceptions, etc. 

Just wondering if there is a better explanation of what constitutes a clearance out there?

[gunnerfan]

Thanks for this most interesting thread, Rashidi. I've begun to focus on stats in conjunction with attributes and in searching for a stronger back line to improve my tackling, I found that the best tacklers in the Serie A had better numbers but lower attributes than my current backs. Makes me wonder if there isn't some randomizing element in the game engine. 

I know, it's my tactics.

Anyway, I'll be following this thread as it unfolds.

[Rashidi]

Well I think its time to reveal the attributes of our goalkeeper who has left us for Arsenal.

When I signed him initially all we had in terms of stats was a season of play in Brazils top flight where a 17 year old averaged 7.08. He also had a save ratio of 81% and an expected goals prevented number of around 4 I think.

I don't have a screenshot of him when we signed him, but in the three seasons he played for us, he won the Golden Gloves European award twice. He was the best goalkeeper in the Serie A each season he played. When we signed him we had to accept that he wanted to use us as a stepping stone and the contract came with a minimum release clause. With two years left on his contract, he refused to sign an extension because he wanted to play for a bigger club. Knowing that he was probably going to leave, I decided to put him out on the market and two clubs met his release clause. 

Lucas Eduardo is now an arsenal player


With him as our keeper we won the serie A twice. He is now gone and we have replaced him with Callum Murray who was a Juventus player with an expected goals prevented number of close to 8 and a save ratio of 81%.

 

For me any goalkeeper who has a save ratio of less than 76% is a waste of time. I know that seems harsh, but on average most keepers are expected to save around 76% of attempts directed at goal, and I reckon that this yardstick works.

We are also going to add to our squad with another striker, forward and a few young central defenders. 

The issue with statistics for youngsters is that for U18 leagues we can't get full detailed stats. So numbers like interceptions/90 are not something that you can export from a view. Its something I hope Sports Interactive will fix in the future (ie give us complete U18 stats as well).

As far as the requirements of the striker are concerned. I am planning to sign a striker who has an interceptions/90 of at least 1, and goals/xg ratio of 1.3 and higher. We are also looking for a centre mid who is as creative and attacking as Cesare Casadei. He has been a fantastic servant of the club. To find a similar player we will look for centre mids who put out similar numbers like him

Overall, while I feel that playing without attributes is fun, I don't like how it works with youth teams. Ultimately it kinda makes the game even easier, too easy in fact. This season I feel like the use of numbers just made my team selections too strong.

An example: We signed Bella Kotchap this season to strengthen our defence. We signed him because his defensive actions were fantastic. He has a value of 5 and higher. Since joining our team his defensive action scores this season were 7. To put things in perspective, Sagusten Anderson and Ramiro Hernandez only did 6 last season. My defensive score aggregates their defensive actions and applies a scoring system to them. True enough, Bella Kotchap went on to win the best Serie A defender award this season too. I don't know what his attributes are but I could be doing a reveal everyones attributes stream soon, cos my curiosity is getting the better of me. 

 

[karlcole]

On 23/07/2022 at 00:28, wkdsoul said:

Ive still got the code for these two somwhere, i'll dig it out and send it over tomo. 

Wow these look great. Newbie here wanting to try attributless. Where should I place this code?

thanks 

[Taipan]

Geez Rash, this could make me play FM again. I've only previously gone as far as having the attributes as stars, but this takes it to a totally new level.

[Rashidi]

BTN PUBLIC.xlsx
 

I have just uploaded the latest file that i think is easiest for people to use. People need a bit of familiarity with excel to work these files, there will be div errors where a number is divided by 0 and NA, but if you are familiar with filters and understand why the errors are being generated you should be able to fix them yourself. I will be working on something a lot more simpler to use in the future, for now this should be where we start.

Generally I have classified and divided actions into 3 broad groups. For example if i want a good wingback I look at those that have both a good defensive score and a creative score. A creative score indicates how good they are at creating chances. Alternatively you can just use the defensive score and go look at chance created per 90 in the game which is a goal scoring action.  I just found a player in my own save with a much lower CA outperforming another in the same role. 

When i looked at the creative actions there were very similar, when I looked at the defensive score there was a big difference, this forced me to look at why the two were playing differently and then I realized that one player had better interceptions/90 and headers won/90. Thinking that this could be a mental thing, my deep dive into the lower CA player told me that attributes could not explain that away, since the higher CA player was undoubtably better in that regard.  It was height, jumping reach and the fact that my tactic employed him as a FB(A) and with a player instructions to keep it short. Together they explained why one fullback was outperforming another.

[DIESEL.be]

Thank you for the link Rashidi, I do enjoy these kind of playthroughs 

[The Enforcer]

This is a really interesting thread.

I recall putting forward an argument an attribute-less FM a good few seasons ago on a 'wish-list for future versions' thread, where I suggested that players would just have to go on non-quantifiable comments from Scouts/Coaches alongside match statistics. It does seem that having this as an option is becoming closer to a reality.

 

The player below shows that statistics can trump attributes even in lower leagues:

Fans hated him:

and still do:

in spite of this Oxford City record - highest average rating:

overall VCS record:

and some polygons:

This does raise an example of where the FM22 statistical analysis appears to struggle to cope with versatile players and usually has to pigeon-hole them in a single position. For example, When I wanted to sign a player as a DR, I could only see their stats compared with midfielders. However, in Fernandes' case, FM can't make it's mind up whether he's a midfielder, winger or forward. On his individual polygons, he appears variously as a winger and a forward. On his individual scatter graphs, it loads the VCS forwards' graphs, but then doesn't plot him on any of them. On the main data hub page it bundles him in with 'midfielders', which is where all wide and central midfielders are collated. In a similar vein, full-backs are bundled in with centre-backs. I've also noticed that there is no 'movement' scatter graph for midfielders, whereas there is for defenders and forwards. It would be a very useful stat for wingers and attacking midfielders. Another anomaly is that 'goal output' doesn't appear for one of my strikers. He has 15 goals, but no assists. Evidently, he needs at least one assist, before I will be furnished with this data, because another striker with 2 goals and 4 assists does have goal output data.

 

On 21/08/2022 at 17:53, Rashidi said:

He had a low tackling ratio, his interceptions were good plus he has height. When the scout report came in, they said he had a competitive streak and I didn’t hesitate.

His very first game of the season, he tackles someone in the opponents third scores a goal. I love competitive steaks in wide attacking players.

You can account for attacking styles If your scouts send in videos of his performances, then you can make a rough judgement on how they are playing. And don’t forget not everyone might play the way you want so you are basically trying to build a profile of a player by stats alone so those videos do help a lot.

https://www.guidetofm.com/players/attributes/4/

Could be a big negative especially if combined with relatively high aggression and low tackling.

On 21/08/2022 at 23:32, PatrickReynolds said:

Hey @Rashidi, been following you YT series and love the spreadsheets. Makes me realize I need to have a deeper understanding of what each stat means .

One I've been trying to nail down is Clearances. I took note when you said that Clearances means the defender is good at bringing the ball out of defense. In my mind, clearances were defenders hoofing it anywhere out of danger. I tried to use the analytical data to show me where clearances occured during the game, and watch a highlight of said play. However, looks like while clearances are captured in the stats, they don't save them for viewing later in the detailed match analysis, unlike interceptions, etc. 

Just wondering if there is a better explanation of what constitutes a clearance out there?

https://www.guidetofm.com/tactics/playing-style-composition/

https://www.guidetofm.com/tactics/roles-duties-2018/

Definitely seems like a characteristic of a direct approach, rather than a short-passing game to me, something more suited to a NCB than a BPD.

 

 

I hope this hasn't unduly hijacked the thread, but wanted to add my tuppence worth from the limited experience I have of this approach to FM22.

 

Cheers,

TE

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by The Enforcer
Replaced screenshot with a better one.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, The Enforcer said:

Could be a big negative especially if combined with relatively high aggression and low tackling.

I like the trait for strikers and wide attacking players, they are great at applying pressure and taking one for the team

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, The Enforcer said:

Definitely seems like a characteristic of a direct approach, rather than a short-passing game to me, something more suited to a NCB than a BPD.

They haven't defined clearances in that blog, but its not the same as the statistic that is being used in the game. Clearance in the game of FM is not about kicking the ball away from danger, in FM its about bringing the ball out of dangerous areas.. Two very different things. The more clearances a player has, the better he is at bringing the ball out of defence.

[The Enforcer]

9 hours ago, Rashidi said:

They haven't defined clearances in that blog, but its not the same as the statistic that is being used in the game. Clearance in the game of FM is not about kicking the ball away from danger, in FM its about bringing the ball out of dangerous areas.. Two very different things. The more clearances a player has, the better he is at bringing the ball out of defence.

Thanks for your reply. Have SI stated this somewhere?

 

I just tried a test with Centre-Back A with First Touch 9, Passing 12, Technique 7, Composure 11, Decisions 14, Vision 13 and Pace 8, partnered with Centre-back B with First Touch 6, Passing 6, Technique 7, Composure 9, Decisions 9, Vision 7 and Pace 6 in the same save right before a match kicks off. In the first test I set C-B A to BPD-De and in the second test I set him to NCB-St. In both tests I left C-B B as CD-De.

 

Key (C-B A is on the bottom) (C... = Clearances):

Test 1 - As BPD-De:

Test 2 - As NCB-St:

 

C-B A recorded nearly twice as many clearances when in the NCB role compared with the BPD role. In both cases, C-B B, whom is much less comfortable on the ball, recorded more clearances, three times as many in his CD role as when C-B A was a BPD. The other noticeable shift is that C-B A is much more accurate with his passing in the BPD role than in NCB role, which was to be expected. It also appears that as a BPD, C-B A lets C-B B do more of the donkey-work, hence a far greater proportion of headers for C-B B in test 1, whereas they are closer in test 2 (although the stopper duty may be the bigger influence there).

 

This is just one example using two players instantly at my disposal. I will have to engineer one with two players where the attributes are more starkly contrasting, but for now I believe this supports my original view that it is more likely that the clearances in the stats represent the ball being hastily repelled forward rather than a defender carrying the ball up the pitch.

 

Cheers,

TE

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by The Enforcer
Updated 'Key' & corrected typo.

[PatrickReynolds]

Very interesting responses, would be keen to know if you can replicate this in another test. It matches what I would think of as clearances, but I also would never put money against Rashidi when it comes to how FM works!

[Rhum]

Im trying to make it fit , Clearances is added into the public exel file as one of the columns , but the squad view you are meant to copy and past doesnt have clearances , so when i add it all together the columns misalign , is there a view that has clearances on it ?

i cant find the clearances stat at all to put into the view column , what am i missing ??

Edited October 14, 2022 by Rhum

[The Enforcer]

On 13/10/2022 at 05:16, PatrickReynolds said:

Very interesting responses, would be keen to know if you can replicate this in another test. It matches what I would think of as clearances, but I also would never put money against Rashidi when it comes to how FM works!

I ran another test from an earlier save point. Here's the more 'cultured' centre-back 'A':

I used Genie Scout to find a realistic free transfer signing whom was OK at the core defensive attributes, but low in other technical and creative attributes, centre-back 'B':

So Test 1 has A set to BPD-De and B set to NCB-De, with A on the line above B:

And for Test 2, I replayed the match, but reversed the roles, so A is set to NCB-De and B is set to BPD-De:

Centre-back A makes more clearances when set to NCB than BPD and also goes for more headers. However, this time, the reverse is true of centre-back B, whom makes more clearances when set to BPD, but his headers attempted are the same, albeit he wins a few more. A attempts more passes when BPD, B attempts fewer, the %'s are similar. There's a lot fewer interceptions in the second match, so maybe some of the differences are as a result of variations in attacking approaches by the opponent between the two matches (although in both cases OCFC won with goals in the latter part of the second half, 0-2 & 0-1, respectively). This is the first game of the season and so it's probable that the ability to carry out a role is affected by an element of unfamiliarity and it would probably need repeating once players are established. However, the reaction of A to the tactics hasn't altered my belief.

 

Maybe the ideal test would be with defenders where they have traits that complement ball playing and no-nonsense defending, respectively.

 

Cheers,

TE

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by The Enforcer

[Rashidi]

I am going off what one of the devs once told me and I was surprised even then, and of course statistics in the game itself.  Why don't you start a separate thread focusing on that.

[Rhum]

19 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I am going off what one of the devs once told me and I was surprised even then, and of course statistics in the game itself.  Why don't you start a separate thread focusing on that.

Hi 

In your Squad view you have the "Clearances" stat ,,yet when i load in your squad view "clearances" isnt there , and i cant find it amongst the stats to place it in ,im baffled , have you any idea how i get the stat clearances to appear ?