Most of AI Top teams average age squad age is 30+

[Toshevbgg]

I am near 2028 in my save game the last 4 seasons played with the latest patch. I am noticing that computer teams cannot replace their starting players since young players still develop slowly and need a lot of game time

 

Few examples in my save

Man United Starting Line/Bench

Casemiro 36 . Pogba 34, Varane 34, Bruno 33, Muso 34, 
Real Madrid 38 Azpiculieta 36 Neymar  Thino 35 Alaba 35 Belloti 34 Hakan Calhanoglu 34 Gnabry 33 Sule 31 Neves 30 militao30 

Their youngest first team player is Vinicius Junior 27

 

Barcelona are kicking ass since they have some good developed talents at starting of the game

 

Liverpool were amazing strong but now they cant replace the old geezers and are starting to struggle

Lewandowski 39, Jordan Henderson 37, Van dike 36, Salah 35, Allison 35 , FAbinho  34. Fabian 30  Angelino 31 . Trent Upamecon 29  , Mbappe 29 

Their youngest first team player is Samuelle Ricci 

 

Quick look at chelsesa

Kante 36, Mendy 35, Lukaku  34 , Chilwel, Loddi, Mount , Havertz., Their youngest player is Moukoko

 

If I look at almost all top teams they all have first time players I mean nobody is using regens except very very few teams and me.  I am wtih Derby and I still cant win the league waiting for my team to develop.   My AMC the only one I know his potential so I check him with editor every year to see him developing

He is 21 at 177 CA 198 potential. To get him there he is first team player the last 4 seasons 50 games each year 10 rating in training. I constantly prase/critize him if he slacks in training

I had to sell a lot of very high potential players according to my squad cuz I bought them and could give them only 20 games per season ( cups etc) 5 star training and they barerely developed. I had a talanted AML 4 star scout rating sent him on loan each season 4 season in a row he played 120 games great stats but cant develop further then 3 stars

[Toshevbgg]

Quick look at PSG

36 Carvalho Martinez , Marquison Sterling Palhina Kimpbembe Weighl Hakimi Donarrum

Youngest first team players Moriba/Mendes 25 

Milan  Youngest first team player Daramy ( not a regen)

Inter youngest first team playerGiavanni Reyna 25 other starters

Lazzari, Adnerw Robertson , Bernanrdo Silva, Skriniar , Strakosha, Rori, Barella, Richalidson, Lautaro  All 29 +

 

Atletico Madrid

Koke, Oblak, De Paul,. saul , Giemnez, Llorenta, correa , Niakahte 

Youngest first team player Cunha 28 

[Neil Brock]

If you think there's an issue would be worth raising with save game examples here - https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2022-bugs-forum/medical-and-development-centre-training-and-finances/

Thanks. 

[AurioDK]

I believe this is actually what makes or breaks the game for many of the AI top teams, the transition period, some do it well, others fail miserably to replace their oldies. I am in 2034 and Arsenal are constantly fighting a relegation battle, they didn´t do the transition well, Man Utd are also doing really bad.

On the other hand Southampton is now classified as a top European team and part of the CL every season, they have one heck of a squad they put together out of a good generation of youngsters.

As for replenishing the team in 2034, you can´t. There are no big moves anymore, players stay in their clubs and don´t move, those of a high value that is. 4 at Southampton worth 200 million euros and no one is interested, neither am I because I don´t have the money for it and it´s like that for most players above 100 million Euros, they just stay at their clubs until the end.

At Wrexham player prices have gone up, wages have gone up, everything has gone up but the income hasn´t which leaves everything at a stalemate. The only option is to buy semi decent backups and promissing youngsters.

 

The second part of the problem which I already mentioned a bit and there are no exceptions. All teams are spending a ludicrous amount of money on wages, that leaves almost every club without any money at the end of the season, it includes my club Wrexham. I won the double this season and I won´t be able to make any purchases. Player wage demands are up the roof, newly promoted Stoke has a single player earning almost as much as the entire real life Brentford squad, Stoke´s wages are 8x that of real life Brentford, this is the cheapest squad in the PL in terms of wages. Stoke got relegated again ... so good luck to them!!

 

No transfers in 3 seasons for anyone with a value of 100k+ in the PL. 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by AurioDK

[bluehefner]

Funny you should mention that, i feel like i've noticed a lot of older players signing for big clubs, like players who are in there 30's and near the end of there contract, maybe it's just me but it seems like a lot, so it's no surprise to me that clubs are ending up with older squads.

[AurioDK]

28 minutes ago, bluehefner said:

Funny you should mention that, i feel like i've noticed a lot of older players signing for big clubs, like players who are in there 30's and near the end of there contract, maybe it's just me but it seems like a lot, so it's no surprise to me that clubs are ending up with older squads.

 

That´s in my game as well and it makes sense if you read my post, no one has money for big purchases which makes the next best thing players nearing the end of their contract. I just offered a contract to a 32 year old centerback because I can´t afford a younger one :). I dont know how far you are in your game though, so it may not be that bad.

[Nacaw]

The new youth development cycle has partly caused this. New regens take longer to develop, so the AI will buy the "sure thing", the older, original players.

Eventually this allows causes a huge void in world talent, since the AI aren't developing youths from the start, and they take longer to develop in the first place.

Another way to look at this; I have a save game in 2026, and at the WC there are no regens breaking into the national teams. In the top 20 teams from the world rankings, there are 6 regens in total, 3 of them developed by me. Many national teams have no players younger than 25. 

Now, every save game will function fine for about 10-12 seasons. But after that, things are going to get really weird. Transfers will become stagnant, average CA will fall across all leagues and national team results get real weird. 

I'm not one for hyperbole, but this might be the biggest single long term gameplay flaw I've ever seen in an FM game. Luckily, it will only matter for a few % of the player base. 

[KingCanary]

6 minutes ago, Nacaw said:

The new youth development cycle has partly caused this. New regens take longer to develop, so the AI will buy the "sure thing", the older, original players.

Eventually this allows causes a huge void in world talent, since the AI aren't developing youths from the start, and they take longer to develop in the first place.

Another way to look at this; I have a save game in 2026, and at the WC there are no regens breaking into the national teams. In the top 20 teams from the world rankings, there are 6 regens in total, 3 of them developed by me. Many national teams have no players younger than 25. 

Now, every save game will function fine for about 10-12 seasons. But after that, things are going to get really weird. Transfers will become stagnant, average CA will fall across all leagues and national team results get real weird. 

I'm not one for hyperbole, but this might be the biggest single long term gameplay flaw I've ever seen in an FM game. Luckily, it will only matter for a few % of the player base. 

That sounds concerning if it is kicking in as early as 2026. I don't consider myself a hugely hardcore player like some who will play for 30-40 seasons but I've had saves that have gone over a decade. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Freakiie]

Just as a comparison, in the real DB there's one 21 year old with 175+ CA. Second "best" is all the way down at 162 CA. Player development slowing down massively is a good thing, however it has made the impact of the AI's poor team building even bigger. There needs to be a change to the AI that actively encourages it to play and develop young talent, instead of massively hanging onto very old players. Admittedly, the balancing between quality on the pitch now and quality for the future is one of the hardest things for clubs to properly balance, but currently the AI is all in on "quality now" regardless of circumstances, which clearly is an issue. Even the usual talent factories, that all have "buy young players to develop" as club vision seem to completely ignore that vision. Seeing clubs like Ajax buy nothing other than ageing stars is pretty embarrassing.

[Andy1979]

Same every year. Ai is awful at squad building.

[kentonizking]

11 hours ago, AurioDK said:

I believe this is actually what makes or breaks the game for many of the AI top teams, the transition period, some do it well, others fail miserably to replace their oldies. I am in 2034 and Arsenal are constantly fighting a relegation battle, they didn´t do the transition well, Man Utd are also doing really bad.

On the other hand Southampton is now classified as a top European team and part of the CL every season, they have one heck of a squad they put together out of a good generation of youngsters.

As for replenishing the team in 2034, you can´t. There are no big moves anymore, players stay in their clubs and don´t move, those of a high value that is. 4 at Southampton worth 200 million euros and no one is interested, neither am I because I don´t have the money for it and it´s like that for most players above 100 million Euros, they just stay at their clubs until the end.

At Wrexham player prices have gone up, wages have gone up, everything has gone up but the income hasn´t which leaves everything at a stalemate. The only option is to buy semi decent backups and promissing youngsters.

 

The second part of the problem which I already mentioned a bit and there are no exceptions. All teams are spending a ludicrous amount of money on wages, that leaves almost every club without any money at the end of the season, it includes my club Wrexham. I won the double this season and I won´t be able to make any purchases. Player wage demands are up the roof, newly promoted Stoke has a single player earning almost as much as the entire real life Brentford squad, Stoke´s wages are 8x that of real life Brentford, this is the cheapest squad in the PL in terms of wages. Stoke got relegated again ... so good luck to them!!

 

No transfers in 3 seasons for anyone with a value of 100k+ in the PL. 

 

 

 

Can we see some screenshot, I'm interested in this 

[Toshevbgg]

@Neil Brock

Hmm I think this thread can be used to gather evidence and we can move it to bug report since here its more popular people will be able to see the post and provide more info. 

 

Not a single regen in any of ht enational teams. The  young players in Belgium are 2021 and other one is 2020 one. Their squad looks the worst with average age well 30 + and tons of players above 30. I checked a lot of other nations same story

 

[AurioDK]

33 minutes ago, kentonizking said:

Can we see some screenshot, I'm interested in this 

 

https://www.wtfoot.com/salary-overview/manchester-city-player-salaries-revealed/ .... real life Manchester City salaries.

Checked through most teams and it´s pretty much the same for everyone. Players asking for improved contracts 4 years before their contract expiry is normal, in many cases you can get around this by simply saying no or trying to ride it out with various measures, but not in an extended manner where you keep postponing  Eventually team mates become unhappy and the whole team goes down in a spiral.

Below is what M. City is paying their players in 2034 and they have a far greater sponsorship income than I do, their sponsor money keeps them afloat. Be mindful though that nothing else goes up when it comes to income, price money and tv money stays the same throughout all seasons. With the kind of wages M. City are paying, how on earth are transfers possible unless you sell to buy, it´s almost double the wages of the current City squad. But it´s difficult "to sell to buy" when no one has money.

 

[Toshevbgg]

@AurioDK
When I offer new contract always i put start date end of season. That way you can buy yourself another 6 months of peace before they start to cry about it. Then if you can ride it out to next seaon you renegotiate again end of season

[kentonizking]

11 hours ago, AurioDK said:

 

https://www.wtfoot.com/salary-overview/manchester-city-player-salaries-revealed/ .... real life Manchester City salaries.

Checked through most teams and it´s pretty much the same for everyone. Players asking for improved contracts 4 years before their contract expiry is normal, in many cases you can get around this by simply saying no or trying to ride it out with various measures, but not in an extended manner where you keep postponing  Eventually team mates become unhappy and the whole team goes down in a spiral.

Below is what M. City is paying their players in 2034 and they have a far greater sponsorship income than I do, their sponsor money keeps them afloat. Be mindful though that nothing else goes up when it comes to income, price money and tv money stays the same throughout all seasons. With the kind of wages M. City are paying, how on earth are transfers possible unless you sell to buy, it´s almost double the wages of the current City squad. But it´s difficult "to sell to buy" when no one has money.

 

What about the league list of wage budgets? Or whatever its called? 

[Piksi#10]

16 hours ago, Freakiie said:

Just as a comparison, in the real DB there's one 21 year old with 175+ CA. Second "best" is all the way down at 162 CA. Player development slowing down massively is a good thing, however it has made the impact of the AI's poor team building even bigger. There needs to be a change to the AI that actively encourages it to play and develop young talent, instead of massively hanging onto very old players. Admittedly, the balancing between quality on the pitch now and quality for the future is one of the hardest things for clubs to properly balance, but currently the AI is all in on "quality now" regardless of circumstances, which clearly is an issue. Even the usual talent factories, that all have "buy young players to develop" as club vision seem to completely ignore that vision. Seeing clubs like Ajax buy nothing other than ageing stars is pretty embarrassing.

That's true, I fully agree.

I have however experimented with manager settings, in the pre-game editor and this is for instance the squad of a manager that I gave a very high 'signs players U22 for the first team' rating in 2035. He just left Shakhtar (the team below where he spent 7 seasons) to join Chelsea.

As you can see there is a very solid number of young players. So apparently the club focus isn't really working, but the manager specific option (which I think can only be set in the pre-game editor) is. 

On the other hand it's great to see older players still being useful and like you said, players reaching their full potential at a later age. Just look at Mbappe at age 36, still going strong.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Piksi#10

[Neil Brock]

12 hours ago, Toshevbgg said:

@Neil Brock

Hmm I think this thread can be used to gather evidence and we can move it to bug report since here its more popular people will be able to see the post and provide more info. 

Not a single regen in any of ht enational teams. The  young players in Belgium are 2021 and other one is 2020 one. Their squad looks the worst with average age well 30 + and tons of players above 30. I checked a lot of other nations same story

 

The international call-ups is something already raised and covered on the Bug Tracker. Would still say this (in relation to club squad building) is worth raising directly on the Tracker ideally with save game examples, although I have flagged it to our QA team who will investigate. 

Of course AI squad building is something constant reviewed and tweaked for each version, but insights like this are always useful. Thanks. 

[AurioDK]

There seems to be a lot of players in my game with late development, I have about 6 in my squad who are rated with a very high potential ability but 30+ games a season hasn´t really moved them. My goalie is still stuck at 2,5 stars although he has 4 as potential, he has been like that for 3 seasons. Mind you that I have top coaches and everything money can buy when it comes to training. Everyone also seems to be doing well in training.

Most of my players going on loan to France, Germany and Spain come back the same, they don´t show any improvement with a single exception 2 seasons ago, had to let a 5 star potential rated youngster join Dortmund due to having too many strikers and he developed well.

In the past I have always complained about the lack of late bloomers, in FM 22 there seems to be plenty of them. I just had to sell 2 center backs who were unhappy with their playing time in spite of them playing more than enough (another problem though), I bought a replacement without scouting on the last day and he had 2 stars ... but 4,5 potential at the age of 25, this is not the first time I bought a replacement with lots of unused potential.

 

Some develop well but too many get stuck in their development, much more so than in previous versions. Could be one of the reasons why we see so many oldies being in various teams, I am fine with late bloomers though.