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Getting Barnsley and Burnley To Compete With The Top Four (on a budget) Working Towards Total Football FM22


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  • Pattric_b changed the title to Getting Barnsley To Compete With The Top Four (on a budget) High press, possession FM22
22 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

I always struggle in recruitment for "well rounded" players. I find 11-12 for the most attributes, but don't know which attributes deserve more attention.

Great thread by the way. I eagerly await follow-up.

Thank you!
Depending on what level you’re at, 11-12 could work. For the championship that is a little low. One thing that could help is once you’ve identified how you want to play, look at the training schedules and find which attributes are boosted when you train for that specific style of play. For example if you pick the “translation- press” regime, it will show you exactly which attributes of your players will improve and therefore you know which attributes are needed to press the opposition in the match engine. It’s a more simplified approach with fewer core attributes, but it’s a good place to start when you’re on a tight budget. 

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55 minutes ago, lipebtavares said:

Do you use player instruction?

 

53 minutes ago, lipebtavares said:

Are the attributes in the first column the main ones or are they all important?

I use tighter marking for my front three to try and force them to close down more. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t do much. I’ll admit getting my team to press high up hasn’t been consistent. 
 

All the attributes are important. The left column of attributes are mostly attack phase, the middle is neutral (I want all my players to have these attributes regardless of position) and the last column is mostly defensive attributes. 

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Moneyball in the Premier League

Anyone who is familiar with Brentford knows they were the first championship team to earn promotion into the Premier League, despite having a small budget and using secret algorithms for player recruitment. It remains to be seen if they’re able to stay in the Premier league following promotion, but so far it's gone very well for them. Currently, they have approximately $35m payroll. Which is still significantly higher than our current wage bill.

Our promotion came a few years earlier than expected by our board. That said, our squad will be the weakest in the Premier League by a far margin. We are 1000-1 odds to win the Premier League, which is the worst. The only way we will have a chance of staying up is by getting our summer recruitment spot on. The first thing I’ve done is increase our scouting scope to all of Europe. An expensive decision but a necessary one given what’s at stake. We need to have as many players on the radar as possible. 

Scouting to survive:

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Our transfer budget is respectable. Our wage budget is rather low.

We are going to continue to recruit the same type of player as we did last season. Well rounded, versatile players who can play a high press and possession style tactic. But how do we go about finding the right players for this style of play? We use the game's own training schedules to tell us which attributes are key for certain styles of play. Let's look at the games ‘transition-press’ schedule:

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The game tells us that if you want to high press your opponent, you will need to work on these attributes (first touch, passing, tackling, anticipation, aggression, decisions, teamwork and work rate). It’s a very simplified approach, but it worked for us last summer, so we’re sticking to it again this time around. Now let’s look at the ‘general- possession’ attributes.

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These are the attributes that are needed to play possession. The primary attributes are dribbling, first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, decisions, off the ball, teamwork, and vision. The secondary attributes are marking, tackling, technique, aggression, anticipation, concentration, decisions, positioning, teamwork and work rate. As you can see, some attributes are the same as the pressing training, which is good for us. The fewer attributes, the more likely were able to find a player to press and play possession. Now all we have to do is combine the two and we can create a template for the type of players we should bring to the club. Easy enough.

 

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(I forgot to check concentration by mistake so imagine it's there)

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This is the list of players that appear after searching. I limited the age to 30 and below because of our original philosophies of giving youth a chance. Although, I realize finding young experienced players that will help keep us in the Premier League is very slim. One problem here is most of these players are all central midfield players.
When we search for just the ‘transition- press’ attributes listed above, we find this:

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A much more broad list of players and the good thing about pressing attributes is it shares some with possession. Meaning, all these players are not far off from the exact player we need. As long as I feel like the player would be comfortable with the ball, and capable of making a pass, we will look him at. Now we need to establish which players are realistic signings, financially and if they make sense, tactically. As I said in the opening post, we will rely on our data analysts' reports to determine who to sign.

… Eventually the reports came in and we find our first target. Woo- Yeong Jeong.

1800838384_wooyeongjeong.thumb.png.4303a3f8abc1aec1f45b73adc22134ea.png

Our analysts are raving over this guy. He is a hardworking, aggressive winger with good off the ball movement. 14 for first touch, dribbling, technique and 15 for teamwork. He also only costs 3m and we require more quality on the wings. He is a talented player but unfortunately for us; we face a lot of competition signing him which isn’t what we want. Usually, when there is competition, the player's agent can drive up the wage and bonus demands. That’s bad news for us. It's unlikely we sign Jeong. 

We also found this player:

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We currently lack quality at left back and this player at 21 y/o looks like he can be good. He’s also available for a mere 1.2 million. My analyst team gives him the green light and they believe he can improve a lot, so I make the bid. 

We also found Jacob Christensen, who was dominating the Danish league.

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My analysts say he is very good at retaining the ball. He was also first in his league in assists, won possession 407 times, created 9 clear cut chances and already has 153 appearances for his club. Jacob fits the bill. He is on the pricier side at 6m, but if we sell one of our players, that will afford us Christensen with cash to spare. 

That's the gist of how I will continue to go about finding players in the transfer market this summer. You can see what players I am looking for and I'm going to maintain my discipline, so I don't sign players outside of the mold simply because my scouts give him an A+. It's simple, but so is this sport. Fingers crossed all goes well and we're able to sign the right players. 

Finding like-minded Staff:

We can assemble a great squad but all of that would be for nothing if we don’t have suitable staff to coach them. As I mentioned earlier, it is important that we find staff who have a similar preferred playing style. That way we stay consistent. We will be bringing a new assistant manager into the club. Arguably the most important staff role, the assistant manager, needs to be my twin and be as close to how I want to play as possible. As luck should have it, there is exactly someone who I think would thrive in this role.

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Fresh off his sacking at United, Solskjaer has made the bizarre career choice to accept lower coaching roles. But honestly, he would be a very nice fit. His tactical style is vertical tiki-taka. His pressing style is ‘more often’ and his playing mentality is adventurous. He is also a model citizen. He would be a welcome addition to the club and a major upgrade on our previous assistant. 

We are stuck with some of the previous regimes' staff members, but most of their contracts should run out next season and we will replace them with better staff. 

Summer Summary:

It has been a pretty busy summer transfer window, a lot of players asking for new contracts, some bridges being burned, cursing at my screen because players are choosing to sign for other clubs, the usual. I have been taking my time with it because I want to limit the amount of mistakes I make when signing a player. Am I giving the agent too much money? Am I giving the player too much money? Will these bonus clauses effectively bankrupt the club if we overachieve? Will this player be the right fit, personality wise, at Barnsley? These are some questions I ask myself before I sign a player. I've been taking a few real world days to make some decisions on players which some might say is extreme, but I'm very invested in this save at this point and I want to take Barnsley all the way to the league title. 

The updates may not come as often as I'd like due to work and other responsibilities, but this is going to be a long term save with many updates in the future so stay tuned. Thanks for reading. 

P.S. I came across this video on youtube yesterday and thought you guys would find it interesting:

 

Edited by Pattric_b
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I'm a massive Barnsley fan and won promotion via winning the league in the 2nd season on the Beta. Playing pretty much this.

It's much easier this year than ever before due to us having a decent season last year a lot of our current squad are relatively highly rated so you don't need to add a huge amount of quality to turn the squad into a genuine contender.

Oh and they sold the club as soon as we went up too on mine. Our owners really aren't popular IRL, so this would be genuinely welcomed.

But I enjoyed reading your journey for sure, interesting how you basically came to the same conclusions as myself.

Edited by kiwityke1983
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7 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I'm a massive Barnsley fan and won promotion via winning the league in the 2nd season on the Beta. Playing pretty much this.

It's much easier this year than ever before due to us having a decent season last year a lot of our current squad are relatively highly rated so you don't need to add a huge amount of quality to turn the squad into a genuine contender.

Oh and they sold the club as soon as we went up too on mine. Our owners really aren't popular IRL, so this would be genuinely welcomed.

But I enjoyed reading your journey for sure, interesting how you basically came to the same conclusions as myself.

Thats great, how did you do in the premier league? You’re right their starting squad is decent they have some players I was never too familiar with but like a lot now. 

Interesting the supporters don’t like the ownership though, why is that? It seems very likely the club is going to be sold in my game as I keep getting messages about it. 

Good luck with Barnsley if you’re still playing that save! I’m becoming a supporter myself as every day passes. :D

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1 hour ago, Pattric_b said:

Thats great, how did you do in the premier league? You’re right their starting squad is decent they have some players I was never too familiar with but like a lot now. 

Interesting the supporters don’t like the ownership though, why is that? It seems very likely the club is going to be sold in my game as I keep getting messages about it. 

Good luck with Barnsley if you’re still playing that save! I’m becoming a supporter myself as every day passes. :D

Don't do it its bad for your health.

Honestly mate I could write a 4k word thesis on why people hate the ownership. Some of it justified some of it not so justified.

But it basically boils down to them being untrustworthy liars, who are leveraging the clubs own money to buy it whilst running the stadium into the ground via neglect and not investing a single penny into the club.

Paul Conway isn't known as conjob for nothing.

I did really well in the transfer market and got Canwtell, Brooks and some German target man in and we finished comfortably midtable.

I then did another save on the Beta lower down the leagues to see how that was.

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12 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Don't do it its bad for your health.

Honestly mate I could write a 4k word thesis on why people hate the ownership. Some of it justified some of it not so justified.

But it basically boils down to them being untrustworthy liars, who are leveraging the clubs own money to buy it whilst running the stadium into the ground via neglect and not investing a single penny into the club.

Paul Conway isn't known as conjob for nothing.

I did really well in the transfer market and got Canwtell, Brooks and some German target man in and we finished comfortably midtable.

I then did another save on the Beta lower down the leagues to see how that was.

That was my initial concern, Im always skeptical about these consortiums that start buying multiple clubs. They aren’t there for the right reasons. I wonder if the ownership changes in game, are my ties to the other affiliated clubs severed? I would assume so. 

That’s great though, premier league life for me has been rough as my opening three fixtures are Chelsea, Arsenal and man utd… A mid table finish would be amazing!

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30 minutes ago, Pattric_b said:

That was my initial concern, Im always skeptical about these consortiums that start buying multiple clubs. They aren’t there for the right reasons. I wonder if the ownership changes in game, are my ties to the other affiliated clubs severed? I would assume so. 

That’s great though, premier league life for me has been rough as my opening three fixtures are Chelsea, Arsenal and man utd… A mid table finish would be amazing!

Yeah I had a very kind start I don't think I played one of the big 6 until about 10 games in and lucked a 0-0 with Man City.

Also, yes the ties are severed when they leave.

IRL In the past few months they've said the following about our 3rd most successful league campaign in history...

"If you look at the table it was a very successful campaign but we didn't receive any offers for any of our players so actually it was a failure."

"Getting to the play-offs cost us 500,000 this is unacceptable"

Or words to those effects. I don't think many would miss them if they left IRL.

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4 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Yeah I had a very kind start I don't think I played one of the big 6 until about 10 games in and lucked a 0-0 with Man City.

Also, yes the ties are severed when they leave.

IRL In the past few months they've said the following about our 3rd most successful league campaign in history...

"If you look at the table it was a very successful campaign but we didn't receive any offers for any of our players so actually it was a failure."

"Getting to the play-offs cost us 500,000 this is unacceptable"

Or words to those effects. I don't think many would miss them if they left IRL.

Spoken like business people, not soccer people. What a shame. Now I wouldn’t be opposed to them selling in my game after hearing that haha

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Hey, I was sent this by a friend and it was a great read - you've clearly done your research on the club and found good success. Even if the "Moneyball" trope and influence of Billy Beane is often over-stated (you're not the first nor will you be the last), it's fairly realistic replication of our recruitment philosophy. I'm actually one of your recruitment analysts so please keep me on in-game lmao

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7 hours ago, MattTrev97 said:

Hey, I was sent this by a friend and it was a great read - you've clearly done your research on the club and found good success. Even if the "Moneyball" trope and influence of Billy Beane is often over-stated (you're not the first nor will you be the last), it's fairly realistic replication of our recruitment philosophy. I'm actually one of your recruitment analysts so please keep me on in-game lmao

Hello! I never would have thought this thread would reach an actual staff member of Barnsley, that’s really cool! I honestly have a lot of questions considering you’re on the recruitment side of the club, but I’m not sure how much you are able to talk about. 

I became interested in moneyball when the movie came out and I agree, it is over stated, but when I saw he decided to bring his knowledge to England, I was immediately interested what he could do for a smaller team in soccer.

Obviously this season we’re struggling but I think last season and the signing of Dike in particular, is evidence the methods can be successful as long as the recruitment is spot on. 

I’ll be honest, your contract may have expired 🤭 but I’m going to bring you back ASAP. Thanks for commenting though I think it’s awesome this reached a member of Barnsleys staff. If you’re allowed to talk about recruitment methods or vague details that could potentially help me, I’d be all ears! 

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October Update:

Our first four games in the Premier League were Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and then Liverpool. In that order. Needless to say, we had a rough start. It wasn't until we played Villa in october that we got our first league win and rose above relegation zone. Possession wise, we have done quite well and we are still moving the ball at a high rate. Pressing on the other hand, has been a complete failure and we are leaving our backline exposed. The match against villa was fortunate for us. They created very good chances but were unable to score while we scored our only goal on a near post header. Following this game, I considered changing our formation shape to give us a better chance of pressing our opponents backline. With only three attacking forward players, we are always going to be out numbered by the opponents back 4 and the 5 position. That led to this:

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Since our 3 front players were having trouble creating chances for themselves and were not able to press efficiently, I added another body up top to try and give them an advantage. The team instructions say gegenpress but I changed some around as you can see. This was changed right before our match against West Ham. We were massive underdogs and they expected us to lose. 

 

 

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In short, we dominated the game and won easily. The tactical change has so far, brought us success. Our next match is away to Leeds and that will most likely see us adapting our tactic so its better suited for away games. 

Our next order of business was to right a wrong. 

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We were only allowed 3 recruitment analysts and already had 3 at the club. Following @MattTrev97 post on this thread, I made an effort to bring him back to the club. 

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I will be keeping Matt at the club for as long as I play this save. So, Welcome back! Wouldn't it be weird if this was the wrong guy though? lol 

 

 

Edited by Pattric_b
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hahaha thanks for re-signing me :lol: no way they've taken my LinkedIn photo for the facepack, I need to update it. I'd be happy to answer any questions (feel free to message here or DM me on twitter @trevillion_), but I'm guessing you already know must of the stuff that I can reveal. 

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42 minutos atrás, MattTrev97 disse:

hahaha thanks for re-signing me :lol: no way they've taken my LinkedIn photo for the facepack, I need to update it. I'd be happy to answer any questions (feel free to message here or DM me on twitter @trevillion_), but I'm guessing you already know must of the stuff that I can reveal. 

May i say i just love the fact a real staff not only plays FM but browse the forums? hahah

Cheers,
Bitner 

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Great posting! Cool to see a newly promoted side use a 4-2-4 and not get hammered. Solid first season that. Did you have to make changes away to the 'big' clubs?

Also, a lot of talk on these forums has been regarding a pressing bug / opposition defences with abnormally high pass completion... was this something you noticed, seen as though your emphasis is on pressing? Or did the team shape help with this regardless?

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9 hours ago, Shirts said:

Great posting! Cool to see a newly promoted side use a 4-2-4 and not get hammered. Solid first season that. Did you have to make changes away to the 'big' clubs?

Also, a lot of talk on these forums has been regarding a pressing bug / opposition defences with abnormally high pass completion... was this something you noticed, seen as though your emphasis is on pressing? Or did the team shape help with this regardless?

Thanks! We have had some stinkers (lost to brighton twice and conceded 9 goals in 2 matches) but overall we did really well and punched above our weight. Yeah I did make some changes when we played the big clubs (chelsea, city, united, spurs, liverpool and arsenal). The most common things I changed was how we played in possession and our playing mentality. I usually had us playing on control the majority of the season but against the big clubs I moved it to balanced and removed 'work ball into box' instruction. I knew they would attack us so I wanted to give my players the freedom to cross and hit long balls in an attempt to counter. 

I have noticed an issue with pressing, yes. It was made slightly better when I added player instructions on the front 4 to man mark. But I do find my players sitting off the backline and being lazy. In this game below we played Crystal palace and won 0-3. They had a 91% passing completion rate. We played with attacking mentality with our defensive line and line of engagement set as high as it can go. 

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This is our defensive actions in that game. Tackles won, lost, interceptions, blocks and gained possession. Just looking at this info in isolation, I dont think there would be many people who would assume we are a high pressing team. 

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Heres another example of our game vs. Watford. Very little defensive actions going on in our opponents half. We played this game the exact same as against Crystal Palace. Attacking mentality, front four and much higher defensive line and line of engagement. Watfords backline had an average pass completion rating of 96%. 

So no, I don't think the pressing is working perfectly. I know I don't have world class players, but you'd expect more tackle attempts in the opponents half at the very least based on how we are playing. We also have nearly full tactical familiarity. All I can do in continue to try and improve the squad and hope for the best.

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Cauley Woodrow:

Cauley-Woodrow.jpeg.76df274b042e6247231ac803f34d56bf.jpeg

It wasn’t long ago Cauley Woodrow found himself in the U21 England set up playing alongside the likes of Jack Grealish, James Ward-Prowse and Nathan Redmond. A highly rated youth player coming out of the Luton setup, he spent his younger years at Fulham, before finally getting a chance to fulfill his potential when he was purchased by Barnsley.

Woodrow has become a fan favorite and is considered Barnsley’s best player at the moment. I became reliant on his ability in my first season managing the club. Woodrow possesses more than enough talent to score goals and be very successful in the Championship. The Premier League is another story.

When we won promotion to the Premier League, I knew I needed to improve our strikers. I felt Woodrow, in his prime years, only needed the right strike partner in order to be successful. I was wrong. We brought in Luiz Henrique to play alongside him, and the Brazilian outshined Woodrow the entire season.

Turned out, the jump to the Premier League was tough for Woodrow. He failed to assert himself in matches consistently. I started him to score goals, and he failed to do that. Woodrow had become probably my favorite player at Barnsley during this time, so I didn’t want to accept he wasn’t good enough for the Premier League. So, I had to figure out what to do with him.

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This is Woodrow, now 29, as well as he will probably ever be in my save. Nowhere near as talented as some of the star strikers in the league, but looking at his attributes, he is a decent player. Poor defensively, as you would expect most strikers to be, he makes up for it by having nothing less than a 12 in all of our core attributes. He is well rounded. A good team player. Instead of forcing the spotlight onto him, I’m going to let him play a supporting role.

Now, I had to find out how I would go about using him in a support role. One thing I kept thinking about was his player traits. He likes to come deep to get the ball. I thought it would work for him last season playing as a DLF but the more I thought about it; I realized he was being played too high up the pitch.

So rather than have him in the striker strata when I know he wants to drop deep, I thought why not move him to the 10 and by doing that I’m also balancing out the formation and potentially dragging the opponents defenders further forward, making space for my inside forward. Here is an example of Woodrow doing exactly that against Arsenal.

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Ignore the player selection. Woodrow has been playing as our 10 for the majority of the season. 

You can see we highlight Woodrow and he’s taking up a much better position as opposed to last season. It’s awkward for Arsenal to mark him because they do not have a defensive midfielder and the center backs are zone marking. He stands on the shoulder of an Arsenal midfielder for a moment, then finds open space in between the midfield and back line. His player trait is on full display here as he drops into midfield to receive a pass from Helik and the move is immediately on. Credit also to Oduor, he found a large amount of space and played a perfect ball in to Maupay. 

Woodrow has been a revelation for us this season. He is a key player and a major reason we find ourself so far up the table in January. We just had a very important match against Man City who is in first place. And here are the goal highlights:

Maupay had to sit out this game because of fatigue. We played Woodrow at the 9 and he shined (the second goal stood). After this win in January, it brought us within 1 point of City with a game in hand. Yes, you are comprehending what I'm saying correctly. We are currently 1 point behind City in second place. 

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An impressive 6 points ahead of Liverpool, we have been having a Leicester-type season. Honestly, even I didn't think this would work out as well as it has. 

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As you can see, we have had some outstanding results, shutting out Liverpool at Anfield and City home and away. We also managed results against Arsenal, Spurs and our Achilles' heel, Brighton. My only concern at this point is the league. I want to finish top four and we have a tough schedule ahead of us. I have not decided yet whether I will try to strengthen the squad in January. In the past, we have had success recruiting in January, but our team is playing nicely right now. And part of me doesn't want to disrupt anything and potentially make players unhappy. 

Before I end this update, I wanted to talk about our tactic/philosophy a bit. There has been a lot of talk about Ralf Rangnick lately due to him becoming Man Utd interim manager. The way I have Barnsley playing is unintentionally very similar to his philosophy. It was only after watching Rashidis video on youtube about how he likes his teams to play did I realize how similar it is to Barnsley's philosophy. I found multiple parallels between Ralf and Barnsley. If you'd like evidence to back it up, look no further than the rumor that he is trying to bring Gerhard Struber to Man Utd to assist him in managing. Struber was the manager of Barnsley during the 2019/20 season before he left to manage NY Red Bulls. But before that, Struber also was coach and assistant at Red Bull Salzburg and developed his philosophy based on Rangnick's (who was RB Leipzig manager at the time). It's no wonder they hired such a person to manage Barnsley. They have essentially copied the Red Bull plan to have their teams press high and gegenpress. It's clear the Red Bull corporation value Struber as they brought him to NY after seeing the success he was having in England. 

When I finally realized the parallels between the Red Bull and the PMG clubs. I also realized which clubs I can look to recruit from. The philosophies are nearly identical. If Barnsley were a Premier League club today, hiring Ralf would be their top priority. This additional information gives me more to research and learn about the origins of Gegenpressing and I will attempt to apply what I read into FM. 

I hope you enjoyed this update. I also hope we can hold on and finish in the top 4. That would obviously be a tremendous achievement and grant us the opportunity to earn more money and recruit better players. Fingers crossed our next update is a happy one!

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10 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Some sick results right there, with a good philosophy!

Do you use any specific Player Instructions in your tactic?

Thanks and yes, I have the front four and my wingbacks all marking tighter. I also have some personalized instructions for wingbacks and wingers who are poor crossers. I just have them cross less. 

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Another great update! What a season so far.

Would enjoy seeing this system take on the Champions League, as well as the extra layer of finances you will receive that will undoubtedly help with recruitment. 

I have just started a new save with Brentford who share 'some' similarities with the way you are recruiting here and style of play.

What is your approach to training?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Shirts said:

Another great update! What a season so far.

Would enjoy seeing this system take on the Champions League, as well as the extra layer of finances you will receive that will undoubtedly help with recruitment. 

I have just started a new save with Brentford who share 'some' similarities with the way you are recruiting here and style of play.

What is your approach to training?

 

 

Thank you! We have done very well for a team with such a small pay roll so the method is working.

Brentford is what Barnsley is aspiring to be right now. Their owner has been very successful using data to recruit players and essentially paved the way for other clubs. Check out “The football code” if you haven’t already. It tells you the background of Matthew Benham and how he created new statistics for analyzing players. 

Right now I’m using @Rashidi training schedules as they’re the best ones I know of. He has videos explaining it. 

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Hey! This is amazing stuff especially how fluid and courageous you are with experimenting and implementing all that stuff. It’s very hard for me and I’d like to know more about how you developed your idea of a tactic and how you experiment to reach such results. Just Name this Woodrow dude, excellent! I have a team full of woodrows some sticking with me since 3rd division (GER) and I’d like to play them really to their strengths in Bundesliga, it’s challenging.

how did you come to the point of playing him shadow striker? Brilliant!

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6 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Hey! This is amazing stuff especially how fluid and courageous you are with experimenting and implementing all that stuff. It’s very hard for me and I’d like to know more about how you developed your idea of a tactic and how you experiment to reach such results. Just Name this Woodrow dude, excellent! I have a team full of woodrows some sticking with me since 3rd division (GER) and I’d like to play them really to their strengths in Bundesliga, it’s challenging.

how did you come to the point of playing him shadow striker? Brilliant!

Thank you. I try to keep it simple and use as much common sense as possible. So for my tactic this season, I have been reading about gegen pressing. I already made the objective for my team to press very high up the pitch before I started managing Barnsley. That is the clubs philosophy. So I already had 1/3 of my tactic decided for me. I looked at the preset “out of possession” team instructions when using gegen pressing and copied it. 

Now for the rest of the tactic I had to decide how I want to play while in possession. You have to have a very clear vision of how you want your team to play. I first wanted us to play possession and move the ball around patiently while we wait for an opening. When we got promoted, we weren’t good enough to outsmart the opposition defense. So I opted to play slightly quicker and more direct. My style of play is very similar to Klopp and Rangnick at this point. 

Once you have a style of play in mind (my recommendation is to decide this before pre season starts), you need to recruit the players to fulfill your needs. Identify the main attributes for possession play if that’s your vision and stick to it. You may see a player who wows you but if he doesn’t fit the mold he’s no good to you. 

As far as Woodrow went I just wasn’t seeing him drop into midfield to link up well enough and he wasn’t scoring goals so I knew his role had to change. He already had some knowledge as a 10 so I decided to drop him down to attacking midfielder but set him as a shadow striker so he is close to midfield but remains a goal threat. Asymmetrical formations work VERY well in FM. Having a team of woodrows is good but if you don’t strengthen the squad properly you will never progress.

Any other questions I’ll be happy to answer!

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Pattric_b:

Any other questions I’ll be happy to answer!

I have some other questions for you but they are more related to my suffering in relegation battle. I had a style of play in mind preseason but I believe it was over ambitious. Now it’s winter we have some real trouble. Maybe you know that and could answer some questions:

First of all: Did you ever really struggle with your teams, staying in relegation spots for some months, losing game after game say after promotion? Because that’s the case with me. I could not anticipate the higher level of 1st division. How did you adapt to that with Barnsley, how was your thinking and mindset beforehand?

If you have some real issues if something is going very wrong how do you analyse this and how do you adapt when every step seems not working out well? How is your mindset when managing a team with serious issues?

Well that would help much! Apart from this I’ve found some wonderful help in this Barnsley thread for Squad building which is what I am trying to achieve. My most common mistake is, that I switch from one tactical idea to the next to often and to frequently. The parameters are changing constantly and that is not good, I am trying to find consistency.

Thanks 

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On 07/12/2021 at 15:37, Pattric_b said:

Thank you! We have done very well for a team with such a small pay roll so the method is working.

Brentford is what Barnsley is aspiring to be right now. Their owner has been very successful using data to recruit players and essentially paved the way for other clubs. Check out “The football code” if you haven’t already. It tells you the background of Matthew Benham and how he created new statistics for analyzing players. 

Right now I’m using @Rashidi training schedules as they’re the best ones I know of. He has videos explaining it. 

Just wrapped up season 1 and wow, what a season it was. 

Firstly, beyond the clubs and my own expectations we managed to finish 5th and qualify for the Europa League:

image.png.aeaaf5ae8ad3df310b2cf4bf7eb74530.png

And this happened...

image.png.b6136cdedccec93be3a1b0f71d1261f0.png

We had a relatively easy run to the final to be fair and scored with 2 of our 3 shots in the entire match at Wembley but I'm not complaining :).

I haven't quite put as much emphasis and focus on data like you have (yet) but aim to work towards it this season coming.

I signed 3 players in the summer, maintaining the club philosophy of either former/current EFL players (Carvalho and Mavididi) and young Norweigans :D (Christensen). : 

image.png.41d67d8ef4f82a2a7bf47eebc3e70056.png

Christensen just picked up the player of the year award after impressing in the deep lying playmaker role infront of the back 4. 

Carvalho hasn't been able to get going yet but he's still young. While Mavididi got 12 goals and 9 assists, mainly as an inside forward on the left. 

Board have given a budget of near £60m for the new season but I've already done some good business signing this guy on a free:

image.png.f0a1f4550188823329267cf353428f76.png

While our playing styles are similar (high pressing) I have tried to employ a more possession based, narrow tactic. We ended up with an average of 53% over the year, 5th in the league, this is an area I'd like to improve on in the new season and get it up towards 60.

Thanks for the thread, definitely inspired me - keep up the posts :)

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2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I have some other questions for you but they are more related to my suffering in relegation battle. I had a style of play in mind preseason but I believe it was over ambitious. Now it’s winter we have some real trouble. Maybe you know that and could answer some questions:

First of all: Did you ever really struggle with your teams, staying in relegation spots for some months, losing game after game say after promotion? Because that’s the case with me. I could not anticipate the higher level of 1st division. How did you adapt to that with Barnsley, how was your thinking and mindset beforehand?

If you have some real issues if something is going very wrong how do you analyse this and how do you adapt when every step seems not working out well? How is your mindset when managing a team with serious issues?

Well that would help much! Apart from this I’ve found some wonderful help in this Barnsley thread for Squad building which is what I am trying to achieve. My most common mistake is, that I switch from one tactical idea to the next to often and to frequently. The parameters are changing constantly and that is not good, I am trying to find consistency.

Thanks 

In this years game I haven’t had to worry about relegation. I’m the past though I’ve been sacked multiple times because of poor results. If your squad is very poor and you are overwhelming favorites for relegation, it’s always going to be difficult to overachieve. With Barnsley I luckily had some money to spend and I used all of it to give us a chance to survive. If you have the same players that played in 3rd division and you haven’t strengthened the squad with bundesliga level players, it’s fine to accept you may be relegated. What was your transfer budget? And did you spend it? 

It’s hard to speak on your circumstance because I don’t know your team or tactics but the most important thing to do is try to create a balanced tactic and stick to it, chopping and changing isn’t going to help. To get an idea of what your team is capable of doing, create a new tactic and see what style of play your assistant thinks they're suited for. You could start with that and use the winter break to get your team familiar with it. Check out rashidis training schedules also, that could help. 

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51 minutes ago, Shirts said:

Just wrapped up season 1 and wow, what a season it was. 

Firstly, beyond the clubs and my own expectations we managed to finish 5th and qualify for the Europa League:

image.png.aeaaf5ae8ad3df310b2cf4bf7eb74530.png

And this happened...

image.png.b6136cdedccec93be3a1b0f71d1261f0.png

We had a relatively easy run to the final to be fair and scored with 2 of our 3 shots in the entire match at Wembley but I'm not complaining :).

I haven't quite put as much emphasis and focus on data like you have (yet) but aim to work towards it this season coming.

I signed 3 players in the summer, maintaining the club philosophy of either former/current EFL players (Carvalho and Mavididi) and young Norweigans :D (Christensen). : 

image.png.41d67d8ef4f82a2a7bf47eebc3e70056.png

Christensen just picked up the player of the year award after impressing in the deep lying playmaker role infront of the back 4. 

Carvalho hasn't been able to get going yet but he's still young. While Mavididi got 12 goals and 9 assists, mainly as an inside forward on the left. 

Board have given a budget of near £60m for the new season but I've already done some good business signing this guy on a free:

image.png.f0a1f4550188823329267cf353428f76.png

While our playing styles are similar (high pressing) I have tried to employ a more possession based, narrow tactic. We ended up with an average of 53% over the year, 5th in the league, this is an area I'd like to improve on in the new season and get it up towards 60.

Thanks for the thread, definitely inspired me - keep up the posts :)

Very impressive for your first season in the prem! Even got some silverware out of it! 

Love the Christensen signing, I tried to bring him to Barnsley but couldn’t get a work permit sadly. Other guys you could look at are Neal Maupay and Jack Harrison, they are both very suited for pressing systems and have been having a great season for me. 

I really want to move back to possession, I loved how we played in the championship but it proved to much to in the prem. My goal is to get to a vertical tiki taka style in a 4-2-4. 

Good job though keep it up and let me know how the next season goes! 

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6 hours ago, Shirts said:

What a season! Champions. Look forward to see how you spend a larger budget and attack the Champs League.

 

9 hours ago, Lordluap said:

Really excellent and inspiring read

Thanks guys! We had a lot of luck go our way but i'm very surprised we were able to win it so quickly.  

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How to Build On Success And Improve A Title Winning Squad

champions.thumb.jpeg.3f58335c031eca36b7e5d6f02fa5784b.jpeg

We managed to beat United to the title, even though we had a far weaker and cheaper squad. We’ve effectively achieved what most Moneyball teams fail to do, win. Our vision was clear, we have to recruit with a small budget and use data to find undervalued players capable of playing our way. Our title win is evidence we did exactly that. Now, we must go through our squad and find the weakest positions and players. We have to always be improving because we are not nearly as strong as the rest of the league.

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This is what we have to work with this summer. It is very likely we spend all of our budget again this summer. I have been thinking of hiring Rangnick as DOF but he is far too expensive and doesn’t want to join. I like the idea of hiring a knowledgeable DOF and giving them the freedom to find players he thinks would fit Rangnick would be the ideal candidate because I know exactly how he likes to play and it’s identical to our philosophy. More on this later.

We have managed to have a very good transfer window this past summer. Jack Harrison, Neal Maupay, Francis N’Gakosso (newgen), Nuno Tavares, Denso Kasius and Patrick Berg. All signed with the intention of starting and instantly improving the first team. Given our squad is far below the standards of teams like Man Utd and Liverpool, I am signing players with the intention of them immediately improving our first team, but also with the plan to improve on that player within 2 years. And continue to repeat this until we have a world class squad.

Winning titles is the name of the game but I want to also have a squad that could compete with the likes of O-zil to the Arsenal’s Benfica side. World class players from front to back.

Analyzing where to improve:

Now it is time for me to identify new player signings, who should leave, get a new contract, etc.

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We have to make decisions on 8 players who’s contracts are expiring next summer. Cummings, Price and Murphy are all academy players who I like so they will be staying. Sibbick, Oulare and Amallah are three I have no intention of resigning so I transfer list them. Sibbick and Oulare are current Barnsley players in real life and unfortunately they have not been able to make the jump to the premier league. Amallah I signed my first year in the Premier League and he has been underwhelming. We have reached the end of his two year stint, so on he will go and I will improve upon his squad position.

Phillips and Woodrow are question marks at this moment. Woodrow is probably my favorite player but he has hit 30 years old and had a pretty poor second half of the season. He is also wanted by Norwich so if they come in with a reasonable bid I will accept it. Phillips also is a solid backup CB but he is constantly getting unhappy and wants to play more. He is wanted by Watford so if they make a good bid I will sell him on.

Contracts are sorted, so now we have to look at how well we fulfilled our club philosophies. Let’s look at our pressing data:

High Pressing/Defensive Actions:

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1736798510_ScreenShot2021-12-10at1_41_25PM.thumb.png.cc4aa8968735efcae37359338fe24e9b.png

At a quick glance you can see we concede far fewer than the average, intercept more than the average, attempt more tackles than average and foul well above average. Our tackles won ratio is worse than average though. Suggesting we may not have very good tacklers of the ball. But this information in isolation is nothing so we need to try and find out why we aren’t winning more tackles.

815756692_ScreenShot2021-12-10at1_51_31PM.thumb.png.7296b5cf9d8bb9cdffee5cd2aa045676.png

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The forwards tackling ratios aren’t available in data hub so I had to make a custom view to see how they fared.

801756472_ScreenShot2021-12-10at1_54_42PM.thumb.png.314bb77a0e72f1ed9050ab9de18fa207.png

For whatever reason, the tackles attempted is not working…? Either way, we can see their winning percentage and how many tackles won per game.

Looking at this information it looks to me that we are average at winning tackles but we have a few stand out players who bring the average down. Joel Bagan, Alberto Moleiro and Neal Maupay have very poor win percentages. I expect it from my forward minded players and creatives but not my defenders. I appreciate Bagans efforts but he simply is not winning as many as he should. He’s actually the worst in the league at winning tackles. His place in the squad will be reassessed as a result.

Other than that, I’m happy with how my fullbacks are tackling. Nuno, Kasius and Brittain all rank highly. Looking at the numbers, it leads me to believe that my fullbacks and wide players see the most action in the game. So I don’t think it could hurt to continue to improve these positions with harder working players. These players don’t need to be the greatest tacklers in the world but they do have to work very hard and apply pressure in a fluid manner. I already have my eyes on one winger in particular. 

1625656292_ScreenShot2021-12-10at9_39_20PM.thumb.png.a239d50c98c22b014ba1d23406ea1b73.png

His development seemed to have stalled at Arsenal and wasn't getting game time, so we were able to sign him for cheap. He fits the mold perfectly, he works very hard and is a team player and has a lot of speed mixed with a fair amount of aggression. I expect him to fit in well. With the rise in our reputation, we have seen very talented players interested in joining. We also signed Menino from Palmeiras and he looks like a great player. 

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It's important to spend the money we are given because our depth isn't ideal. Especially considering we're a Champions league team now. 

Future of Tactics

I have made the decision to go back to the traditional 4-2-4 shape and remove the 10 position from the tactic. I originally introduced the 10 to accommodate Woodrow into the team but after a poor second half from him, I don't feel I can trust him to be a starter anymore. The only issue with this is that we haven't signed a new striker. We have Maupay joining permanently from Brighton but other than that, it's Woodrow and N'Gakosso. I predict Martinelli will get a lot of games as striker as the season wears on. I may also revisit my original tactic from our season in the championship. 

Our play style is going to remain the same. The more I read and see written about Rangnick, the more I feel compelled to adapt his philosophies. The key for me is to try and create something original that is distinct to Barnsley. I don't want to be a carbon copy of another manager. 

Thats all for now. Thanks for reading. 

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5 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Wow great achievement @Pattric_b congratulations! The stats now look interesting especially what you identify with them.

keep up the good work!

Thanks, also forgot to mention that after the patch, I noticed we press better but it seems like it drains more of the players stamina. So the need for quality depth is even more important now it seems. 

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Just wanted to say having finally got through the thread what a wonderful job you have done laying this all out and the Q and A with Matt, it's been a brilliant read.

Thank you Ivan 

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Love the two signings you made. Reckon Martinelli will fire for you! How much did you end up paying? 

I've had a busy summer wheeling and dealing. After the board gave us 58m to spend, I brought it another 50ish for players who had been sulking because of playing time or were upgradable. 

That allowed me to take my calibre of player to the next level:

image.png.51f4a95b125363a615610921830c0473.png

image.png.aaf61bc55041f2bb44771f5fc80ec496.png

The aim was to ensure all were under the age of 25 while scouting those with more technical attributes such as first touch, passing, vision, flair etc. as we look to enhance our passing game.

My favourite signing who I'm expecting big things from is Goncalves:

image.thumb.png.6da7c7bcd5097e9339508bdc364f7f5f.png

Though in my first few games I haven't quite figured out how to best use him.

A thicker squad will also be required for the greater demands European football will bring. 

As for the group, it's one which I'd hope we can progress through but won't be easy:

image.png.5b773fe86892f6a21aecd4a5467a8f83.png

Good luck with the new season!

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb nexting:

This is such a great thread. I'm doing something similar with Swindon :thup:

Brought Swindon up back in FM19 Same Squad from down to Championship. 
Had some nice lads, Jordan Turnbull, Luke Wolfensen and who is this Great Defender from their Squad .. ah namens … 

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6 hours ago, Shirts said:

Love the two signings you made. Reckon Martinelli will fire for you! How much did you end up paying? 

I've had a busy summer wheeling and dealing. After the board gave us 58m to spend, I brought it another 50ish for players who had been sulking because of playing time or were upgradable. 

That allowed me to take my calibre of player to the next level:

image.png.51f4a95b125363a615610921830c0473.png

image.png.aaf61bc55041f2bb44771f5fc80ec496.png

The aim was to ensure all were under the age of 25 while scouting those with more technical attributes such as first touch, passing, vision, flair etc. as we look to enhance our passing game.

My favourite signing who I'm expecting big things from is Goncalves:

image.thumb.png.6da7c7bcd5097e9339508bdc364f7f5f.png

Though in my first few games I haven't quite figured out how to best use him.

A thicker squad will also be required for the greater demands European football will bring. 

As for the group, it's one which I'd hope we can progress through but won't be easy:

image.png.5b773fe86892f6a21aecd4a5467a8f83.png

Good luck with the new season!

Some good names you brought in. I looked into signing Goncalves also but he was too expensive for us, I see him as a second striker. 

We managed to grab Martinelli for only 15m. Judging by the pre season, I think he’s gonna have a very good year! I also begged the board to sign Zaniolo but he was too far outside our budget. Maybe next summer. 

Like you said, squad depth is a must now that you’re in Europe. The amount of games mixed with how we play, it’s going to be dangerous and potentially a lot of injuries. 

Good luck with your upcoming season!

5 hours ago, KingRoyston said:

Best thread produced on this forum in the last few years - great job.  Really interesting to see how you use the data to make decisions for squad building. 

Thanks man I appreciate it. The data hub is certainly limited compared to real life data, but it can tell you if your team is successful in producing your vision on the field or not. 

3 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

OP a great thread again btw, I enjoyed the tactical transformation and how you laid out the changes. Well done!!!

 

2 hours ago, nexting said:

This is such a great thread. I'm doing something similar with Swindon :thup:

Thanks again guys. I’d be very interested to see how you’re getting on with swindon and how you have them playing. 

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Building on Last Season and Keeping the Title:

The new season is here and has so far brought fresh faces, new challenges, a takeover approach and new tactical systems. From my first season, we have been building up to this, which I believe is going to be the start of an era of dominance for Barnsley. We won the title last season, but we were very fortunate to do so. This season we must build upon that unlikely success and cement our place as a top club in England and Europe.

With our title victory, we saw a boost in our club's reputation. This allowed us to sign better players. Now that we’re signing great players, I want to play even riskier. I want to look back on the first tactic I used when we were in the championship.

187325219_finaltacticyear1.thumb.png.2e58336b81c4566e3b40b66c555bcc70.png

When I started the save, I didn’t intend to play with this formation. I wanted to play a 4-2-4 from the get go. I used my better judgement though and opted for a possession style high press tactic. It worked to perfection. 

Now we are in the premier league and possession isn’t something I’m concerned with. I can take that first formation and turn it into a much riskier and exciting 4-2-4 by moving one central defender into the striker strata. This enables us to press even higher up the pitch with our wingbacks starting further forward.

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It also provides much more support for our wingers, who get overlapped by our wingbacks all the time, creating overloads and giving our opponents a very hard time. The tactic above is what I use when I'm at home or playing a weaker side away. There is still a gap in talent between us and the top teams, so when we're away from home, we have to make slight adjustments. 

460328116_ScreenShot2021-12-16at9_35_19PM.thumb.png.ae3b862fbc78575ce4cb085aeea20383.png

Having our wingbacks higher up is too adventurous when we play against top teams. So this is my usual change to balance it out more in our favor. 

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When we played United away, I used my initial tactic without making many changes. I put our loss down to the fact that United has an incredibly expensive and talented squad. So losing to them isn't out of the ordinary. Then, when we played Southampton away, I noticed our wingbacks were constantly out of position and Che Adams, of all people, was trashing my back line and giving them problems from the get go. That's when, at halftime, I dropped my wingbacks, and we salvaged something from the match. From that point on, I went into most away games with a flat back line. The results have been very positive, as you can see. We also won the Community Shield, which is nice. 

The biggest issue is now with the most recent update, I've noticed my players getting fatigued a lot quicker than earlier versions of the game. So having squad depth is paramount. Unfortunately, we don't have good enough squad depth to give our better players a rest. This is presenting an issue for us already in the early season. I will have to strengthen the squad in January even though I don't want to.

Obviously the results have been good, but we have had one player stand out above the rest and I'm very excited about his future at the club. 

333802000_ScreenShot2021-12-16at10_21_49PM.thumb.png.cf747e63f425d293dc9653809070330b.png

I'm trying to contain my excitement about this guy because last season I did a whole write up about Woodrow finding his form. He then had a god awful second half of the season and couldn't find the back of the net to save his life. But N'Gakosso feels different to me. I think this kid has a lot of potential and will far exceed Woodrow's potential. I plan on detailing what I'm doing with our youth academy at a later time, but this is one example of a young player we signed for cheap that looked undervalued by the game. He's now 19 years old and has scored 14 goals in 9 appearances. That's world class level. None of our other youngsters have so far had an impact like him, but that's the point of having an academy. Continue to develop the players at a young age so they can make a seamless transition into the first team, like Francis has done. 

Trasnfers:

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We had to make a few decisions on our current squad. Sometimes you have to sell players, even if you like them. I didn't enjoy selling Rashcl to RB Leipzig, but the bid was too good to turn down. Amallah was a simple decision, as I basically accepted the first bid that came in. 

Looking at our new signings, we signed Maupay permanently. Brought in Menino for a club record fee and signed Neco Williams for free. Not listed on here because I signed them before the restart day is Gabriel Martinelli and Felix Uduokhai. Originally, Neco was signed in for depth but he has been a phenom since he joined. He's averaging a 7.97 in the league with 7 assists in 6 appearances. Felix has also gotten off to a great start, considering he's in a new country. In a perfect world, the board would give me 150m to spend and I could sign enough quality players for depth. But even in a virtual world, Barnsley's world is far from perfect. 

New Look:

Before I end this update, I wanted to share our new look for the new season. 

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I used an application called 'kitbasher' that will essentially create new kits for any team and give you a .png file to upload to the game. It floored me by how cool this was, so I thought I'd share my result for Barnsley's kits. 

They also give you 3D .png files so you can see the kits in the match engine. 

1013473685_ScreenShot2021-12-13at11_02_49PM.png.e77c035f6166ca9952eb27b15904a18f.png

35478177_ScreenShot2021-12-15at6_51_06PM.png.796d1249a96c443a871620f6c77844ba.png308004985_newhomekits.png.deaefd726c220e099f7abc8612833a10.png

736500696_awaykit.png.d543a13cf130a42444519e59c5371bad.png

Just wanted to share because I figured a lot of you guys would be as interested in this as I am. It improves the immersion for me and keeps the look of the club fresh, which is nice. 

That's all for now, thanks for reading!

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  • Pattric_b changed the title to Getting Barnsley and Burnley To Compete With The Top Four (on a budget) Working Towards Total Football FM22

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