Emulating Pep Guardiola

[daleuk8]

I will put the tactic up later once I get chance, I wondered if I could get some initial thoughts? I was watching Man city over the weekend. It was noted by the pundits the City's Full backs would push up into the midfield whilst in possession, they also noticed that the CMD would drop into the defence. Would I select a Half back if I wanted to achieve this? But how I achieve the FB's would this be a Complete Full Back?

[FootballManager89]

I obviously suck at tactics but i would think if full backs are only in midfield in possession a fullback on support duty could do it. Complete wing backs tend to be in the final third in possession.

[Lordluap]

You cant recreate the "Inverted Wing Back" positioning that Clichy and Sagna adopted in the centre of Midfield when in possession.

 

There is already a thread on this a couple of posts down.

 

But id say, something along the lines of a 4-1-2-3 would work. Put a pair of Attacking Wing Backs in the WB slot, not the FB slot, a Half Back between the defenders.  Set the CM's to standard CM/d.  Use Advanced Playmakers in the wide winger slots to get them to sit narrow.  On attack/in possession this will give you the SHAPE that Man City used against Sunderland, with the difference being the roles/personnel in different locations on the pitch.

[daleuk8]

I've gone with inverted WB's instead as I think four attack duties is to much, I only other thing i'm doubting is your front 3 set-up, AP are more creaters and with DLF on support i'd question where goals will come from. I will give things a go though.

[TheJanitor]

Haven't seen the game against Sunderland, but were Silva and De Bruyne really played like CM/Ds??? Don't think that both wing backs need to be on the WB strata as well.

[Markymark886]

You wouldn't be able to create that IWB only cut in on FM16

[Lordluap]

2 hours ago, TheJanitor said:

Haven't seen the game against Sunderland, but were Silva and De Bruyne really played like CM/Ds??? Don't think that both wing backs need to be on the WB strata as well.

No, if you read what i wrote i say that you can create the attacking "shape" (2-3-4-1) that Man City used v Sunderland, but the roles, starting positions etc will be totally different as you cant use the same type of Inverted Full Backs on FM16.

 

Also, to get the CBs to drift wider to the Half Spaces you need to use  Wing Backs as opposed to Full Backs otherwise the CBs dont split wider as they do in most build up phases that Pep insists upon.

[Ji-Sung Park]

9 hours ago, daleuk8 said:

 

I can't be bothered with pictures from the match, but a starting point would be a 4-2-3-1 (it could be a 4-1-4-1). It should be full width - if you watch the game again pay attention to Nolito and Sterling how they basically stay one meter away from the touchline.

Fullbacks movement would be difficult to replicate, but fullback on support with PI 'sit narrower' could be something similar. Also, Kolarov had a great game as CD and he often came forward and made runs out towards the left a few times. 

 

I put a forward arrow on Silva as he would drift out left or swap positions with Sterling when Nolito was taken off.

My roles/duties based on that one game:

Caballero - sweeper keeper to some extent. Not his preferred role, but he did sweep at the back.
Sagna - FB(s). Possible PI: sit narrower.
Stones - CD(c). Could be cover, could be defend.
Kolarov - CD or BPD(d). Did make a few forward runs, otherwise rock solid at the back.
Clichy - FB(s). Same as Sagna.

Fernandinho - CM(d) or DLP(d). The defensive midfielder of the lot.
Silva - More tricky this one in FM terms. Could have been a roaming playmaker or even a playmaker, constantly drifting into space out left and even played as a winger at times.

Sterling - Winger(s). Stayed out wide in possession - very wide and stretched out the midfield/defense of Sunderland. Was swapped to left side when Navas replaced Nolito.
De Bruyne - AM(a). Very much a shadow of Aguero. Parts of the game he was very static, didn't roam much.
Nolito - IF(s). PI=stay wider. Not his best game, but he did, as Sterling, stay way out left and came inside when he got the ball.

Agüero - CF(s). What a season he will have under Pep...

Possible TIs:

Lower Tempo
Close down much more
Play out of defense
Shorter passing
Lower crosses
(Full Wide) Wide
(work ball into box)=possible

Mentality and shape: I would say in that match 'control' and 'very fluid', yet in the final attacking 3rd they are very disciplined.

They reached 80% possession (zzzzzz) but didn't really deserve to win the game according to me and the stat makers. It's the worst footballing style I can think of. Hope they fail miserably.
 

[iMan]

3 hours ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

I can't be bothered with pictures from the match, but a starting point would be a 4-2-3-1 (it could be a 4-1-4-1). It should be full width - if you watch the game again pay attention to Nolito and Sterling how they basically stay one meter away from the touchline.

Fullbacks movement would be difficult to replicate, but fullback on support with PI 'sit narrower' could be something similar. Also, Kolarov had a great game as CD and he often came forward and made runs out towards the left a few times. 

 

I put a forward arrow on Silva as he would drift out left or swap positions with Sterling when Nolito was taken off.

My roles/duties based on that one game:

Caballero - sweeper keeper to some extent. Not his preferred role, but he did sweep at the back.
Sagna - FB(s). Possible PI: sit narrower.
Stones - CD(c). Could be cover, could be defend.
Kolarov - CD or BPD(d). Did make a few forward runs, otherwise rock solid at the back.
Clichy - FB(s). Same as Sagna.

Fernandinho - CM(d) or DLP(d). The defensive midfielder of the lot.
Silva - More tricky this one in FM terms. Could have been a roaming playmaker or even a playmaker, constantly drifting into space out left and even played as a winger at times.

Sterling - Winger(s). Stayed out wide in possession - very wide and stretched out the midfield/defense of Sunderland. Was swapped to left side when Navas replaced Nolito.
De Bruyne - AM(a). Very much a shadow of Aguero. Parts of the game he was very static, didn't roam much.
Nolito - IF(s). PI=stay wider. Not his best game, but he did, as Sterling, stay way out left and came inside when he got the ball.

Agüero - CF(s). What a season he will have under Pep...

Possible TIs:

Lower Tempo
Close down much more
Play out of defense
Shorter passing
Lower crosses
(Full Wide) Wide
(work ball into box)=possible

Mentality and shape: I would say in that match 'control' and 'very fluid', yet in the final attacking 3rd they are very disciplined.

They reached 80% possession (zzzzzz) but didn't really deserve to win the game according to me and the stat makers. It's the worst footballing style I can think of. Hope they fail miserably.
 

The players positions here have Silva further forward then KDB.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1123432/MatchReport/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2016-2017-Steaua-Bucuresti-Manchester-City

[kpsia518]

 

 

 

Guardiola Tactics ◘ Manchester City ⚽ Ⓖ (Herr Pep) Ⓖ ⚽

 

 

[daleuk8]

15 hours ago, Lordluap said:

No, if you read what i wrote i say that you can create the attacking "shape" (2-3-4-1) that Man City used v Sunderland, but the roles, starting positions etc will be totally different as you cant use the same type of Inverted Full Backs on FM16.

 

Also, to get the CBs to drift wider to the Half Spaces you need to use  Wing Backs as opposed to Full Backs otherwise the CBs dont split wider as they do in most build up phases that Pep insists upon.

So would you use two BPD's?

[Lordluap]

35 minutes ago, daleuk8 said:

So would you use two BPD's?

Risky, but maybe.  I'd certainly look at Stones to be a BPD from the right side of defence to aid the play out from the back. 

[Pughie24]

I play this way to great success on FM;

______________________________SK__________________________

____________________BPD____________BPD__________________

_____________DM_____________HB___________DM___________

W_________________CM______________CM_________________W

_____________________________F9___________________________

[kpsia518]

9 hours ago, Pughie24 said:

I play this way to great success on FM;

______________________________SK__________________________

____________________BPD____________BPD__________________

_____________DM_____________HB___________DM___________

W_________________CM______________CM_________________W

_____________________________F9___________________________

 

but what if i want 4231 starting ,then player movement to 3241 ?

maybe only in FM17.

[inacion]

http://www.squawka.com/news/explained-how-pep-guardiolas-manchester-city-formation-actually-works/749531

[Lordluap]

excellent article that ^^

So yes, without proper functioning Inverted Fullbacks, its not possible to accurately replicate this.

 

But as ive said above, using a 4-1-2-3 you can assume the same attacking shape as shown in the article.

 

Use you imaginations and picture using:

 

Ultra attacking Wing Backs

A Half Back

Two static Central Midfielders

(Wide) Advanced Playmakers in the winger slots that sit narrow in possession

A striker.

 

If you track the movement of these roles in possession on attack you will get the 2-3-4-1 structure and a 4-1-2-3/4-1-4-1 in defence.

 

 

[karagon]

Well im using 2-3-4-1 system and this is what i got

    

Pretty close i think. I got 75 percent posession and 86 persent pass success.  I will try change wingers to IF and AP(S) to AP(A)
ps. Sorry for my russian english

[Lordluap]

75% possession?  Who were you and who are you playing against?

[karagon]

Im playing against weak team who promote to league last year. Playing for CSKA. This is my stats after 13 matches. In last game i got 69 percent posession against Lokomotiv Moscow, but i change T(A) and AP(S) to two CM with AP(A) role. Before that im playing against Zenit and got 73 percent posession, but game finished 2-2 draw because of crossing. Crossing actually is big problem of mine

 

[Lordluap]

thats very impressive.

[ramie]

11 hours ago, karagon said:

Well im using 2-3-4-1 system and this is what i got

    

Pretty close i think. I got 75 percent posession and 86 persent pass success.  I will try change wingers to IF and AP(S) to AP(A)
ps. Sorry for my russian english

Looks good. Would like to see just how you set that up.

[karagon]

Well this is my new vision. Based on 2-3dm-4-1. SK(D) - CD(C)-CD(D)-DM(D)-HB(D)-DM(D)-W(A)(MR slot) - AP(A)-AP(A) (AMC slots) - W(A) (ML slot) - F9
Its working, but for more realistic gameplay players must have right PPM. So i think they need this
HB - stay back all time, come deep to get ball
DM's - swith ball to flank, move into channels, 
Wingers - come deep to get ball, play one-twos, move into channels, knocks ball
AP(A) - dictates tempo, play one-twos, try killer balls, move into channels
F9 - come deep, move into channels, play one-twos, try killer balls
So this is how it works without PPM's
As you see, HB need to play deeper/ Without PPM he will go forward too far, and this is will be huge defensive problem

[Chewy2006]

what kind of team instructions do you use karagon

[karagon]

Just now, Chewy2006 said:

what kind of team instructions do you use karagon

Lower tempo, higher def line, more closing down, prevent short distribution, get stuck in, play out of defence, retain posession, pass into space, mixed passes, roam from position.
And i decided come back DM to WB slots, too many promblems with crosses.

[Chewy2006]

thanks for reply and what kind of mentality and team shape?

 

thanks

[karagon]

Just now, Chewy2006 said:

thanks for reply and what kind of mentality and team shape?

 

thanks

Standard - Very Fluid

[James9]

After watching the Man City and Stoke game it seems that Pep is using a 4-1-4-1 formation. I remember him using this in is first season with Bayern Munich. I think trying to replicate Pep's formation really comes down to getting the player roles and duties correct. For example if you tried to emulate De Bruyne and Silva role in FM what would you give them. Now we come to Aguero what is is role and would you replicate that into FM. He was not playing as a F9. I tried replicate Pep 4-1-4-1 with Bayern and my man problem was the getting the right role and duty for Lewondowski. I could not figure out what to do. I would live to hear some of the tactical experts give some ideas on this thread. 

[iMan]

It's a 4-1-4-1 starting shape with the 4 midfielders pushing on and the two full backs pulling in alongside the pivot.

I've been having a lot of success with  setup of

CF s

Wa Ap a Cm a Wa

dlp d

fb s cd d cd d fs 

it looks unbalanced but it actually has a nice balance on the pitch. The 4 in midfield and striker seem to overwhelm defenses with the other 5 protecting against counters and reyecling the play.