Too Much Inconsistency

[aderow]

I won my first home game of the season 7-1. I lost the very next game 1-0. Both matches were against bottom of the table sides. Both matches I played, just about, my strongest squad.

After losing the match, I was incensed. We went from free flowing, dominant football to the complete opposite; lethargic, showing no intent in our play (our passes, our shots). I sat down and I thought about why I had lost the second match. Eventually I came to a realization.

You see at this point we had won our first 3 matches and had conceded only one goal. My team was overconfident. Massively so. Even my ass. man notified me of it before the match. But I ignored him. We started the match off with almost all the ball. 75+% possession; my defensive players were basically kicking back and forth amongst themselves and the other team were happy to let them. We created nothing initially. The one chance they got they took. By the end of the match we had 20 shots with only 5 on target (those 5 being right to the keeper. Like I said no intent in our shots) and 13 being from distance.

Before the match, I ignored the fact that my team was complacent. During the match, I didn't change anything tactically until it was too late. My halftime team talk didn't do us any wonders either.

At the end of the day, that loss was my fault and mine alone. I see that now. And I'll try not to ragequit next time

I think a lot of people have trouble accepting that they share, at least, some of the blame as to what is happening in their saves. It certainly is a hard pill for me to swallow, but I'm doing my best to change that.

How long you have played this franchise really means nothing tbf. If you are struggling in a particular aspect of the game, there's no harm in asking for a different opinion. I've been playing football manager for almost a decade and I've still had my struggles with the game. I talked to some nice people and now I'm back on track.

Before anyone says anything I am by no means a 'fanboy'. I've had my issues with the game from year to year (heck I made a thread in the tactics forum that included a long winded post about me no longer enjoying the game).

At the end of the day we're all the same here. We all play FM ffs. All the labeling and name calling is pointless.

[Damedius]

I've not seen these from my team. Why not upload your save game so people can see how inconsistent your results are, along with these comedy goals?

Here you go. An example of an amazing goal.

Edit: I ended up losing this game 2-1. They got one shot on net and scored. The other goal was that beauty in the video.

[RTHerringbone]

Why so secretive? Videos are one-offs and don't help people diagnose the issues you have.

Uploading your save or just posting images of your tactics will allow people to help. That's assuming you want it......

[Damedius]

Let me guess, that goal was caused by my tactics.

What I want is for SI to improve the game.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Let me guess, that goal was caused by my tactics.

No, it was an horrendous error by your goalkeeper. Like I said before, not everything is either tactical or a bug. Mistakes happen. If you want a game where the players never make mistakes, go and play FIFA.

[HUNT3R]

Let me guess, that goal was caused by my tactics.

What I want is for SI to improve the game.

That's not what he said or meant and you know it. He was talking about getting help/advice overall.

[Damedius]

That's not what he said or meant and you know it. He was talking about getting help/advice overall.

Yes, but the insinuation is that it's a tactical problem.

From my perspective it isn't. When my team plays well, they can pretty much beat anybody in the league. The problem is that the players are inconsistent. They suddenly stop playing well and there seems to be no remedy for the situation. I just sent 3 of my starters down to the U-21 team because they have been playing horrible lately.

[themadsheep2001]

Yes, but the insinuation is that it's a tactical problem.

From my perspective it isn't. When my team plays well, they can pretty much beat anybody in the league. The problem is that the players are inconsistent. They suddenly stop playing well and there seems to be no remedy for the situation. I just sent 3 of my starters down to the U-21 team because they have been playing horrible lately.

It could be a number of things, man management, to the inconsistency of the player himself. There are usually ways to remedy/alleviate the situation (not always, but thats much like real life), but since you're unwilling to upload anything that helps you're going to keep on suffering it.

[PhroX]

Can I ask why you're so reluctant to upload your saves? Seriously, think about what will happen if you do.

Either:

a - People point out issues with your tactics etc, explain to you how to solve them. The result: you become better at the game and are therefore able to enjoy it more

or

b - You're demonstrated to be right: the game is flawed, your arguments are justified and the other people here will have to eat crow. The result: you gain the satisfaction of winning the argument

or

c - You've found a bug(s) in the game, by providing the save you help SI track these down and fix them. The result: FM15 is improved and thus if (when?) you buy it, you'll enjoy it more

It really is a no lose situation for you to upload your save(s) [unless of course, you're exaggerating/lying and know it and don't want to get caught out. I hope you're not, but it's really the only explanation I can think of for not uploading at least one save].

[HUNT3R]

Yes, but the insinuation is that it's a tactical problem.

From my perspective it isn't. When my team plays well, they can pretty much beat anybody in the league. The problem is that the players are inconsistent. They suddenly stop playing well and there seems to be no remedy for the situation. I just sent 3 of my starters down to the U-21 team because they have been playing horrible lately.

There was no insinuation of the sort about the goal.

Looking at the bigger picture, it is quite often a tactical problem so that would be a good place to start. That doesn't mean that it definitely is a tactical problem. We just need to start somewhere and if it isn't tactical, we'll move on to the next possibility until the issue is found.

When you say inconsistent, what does that mean exactly? Do you win 5, looking like Barca, but then lose 1? Do you win 5 in a row and then lose the next 3?

[Damedius]

Can I ask why you're so reluctant to upload your saves? Seriously, think about what will happen if you do.

Either:

a - People point out issues with your tactics etc, explain to you how to solve them. The result: you become better at the game and are therefore able to enjoy it more

or

b - You're demonstrated to be right: the game is flawed, your arguments are justified and the other people here will have to eat crow. The result: you gain the satisfaction of winning the argument

or

c - You've found a bug(s) in the game, by providing the save you help SI track these down and fix them. The result: FM15 is improved and thus if (when?) you buy it, you'll enjoy it more

It really is a no lose situation for you to upload your save(s) [unless of course, you're exaggerating/lying and know it and don't want to get caught out. I hope you're not, but it's really the only explanation I can think of for not uploading at least one save].

The reason why is because it would give people ammunition to excuse the game itself. They would do anything rather than admit the game is flawed in any way.

My tactics have to be the problem even though I managed to get the team from the Skrill North to the Premier League. So my tactics that have been very successful have to be the problem. There is no other option.

[Damedius]

There was no insinuation of the sort about the goal.

Looking at the bigger picture, it is quite often a tactical problem so that would be a good place to start. That doesn't mean that it definitely is a tactical problem. We just need to start somewhere and if it isn't tactical, we'll move on to the next possibility until the issue is found.

When you say inconsistent, what does that mean exactly? Do you win 5, looking like Barca, but then lose 1? Do you win 5 in a row and then lose the next 3?

I mean that the team and players start playing well. Then slowly but surely most of the players on the team start playing poorly. Not all at the same time but eventually 3 or 4 starters start playing poorly and they make costly errors that lead to losses.

[themadsheep2001]

The reason why is because it would give people ammunition to excuse the game itself. They would do anything rather than admit the game is flawed in any way.

My tactics have to be the problem even though I managed to get the team from the Skrill North to the Premier League. So my tactics that have been very successful have to be the problem. There is no other option.

No it wouldn't, and no they wouldn't. That's why a bugs forum exists in the very first place. It would fall under one of three assertions above. It's becoming clear that you have no interest in constructively adding to any of the topics you post in, so I suggest you refrain from posting in the threads if that's the unconstructive approach you want to take. If you were correct, your save would actually prove it, so I find it a little bizarre that you wont actually engage.

[Dagenham_Dave]

My tactics have to be the problem even though I managed to get the team from the Skrill North to the Premier League.

So taking a team from the Skrill North to the EPL is all down to you and completely realistic, but losing a bunch of games because your players had off-days indicates the game is flawed?

Genius.

[RTHerringbone]

Let me guess, that goal was caused by my tactics.

What I want is for SI to improve the game.

In my view goals scored and conceded are, in broad terms, the consequence of tactical settings and / or mistakes.

Where a goal conceded appears not to have a tactical source, I remind myself that people make mistakes.

I'll look back at one of the last goals I scored in detail and realise that the AI made a mistake and that it all evens itself out in the end.

If FM or real football got to a point where everything was tactical because there were no human errors, every match would end 0-0.

[Aramith]

Having studied tactic's as broad as 'Pep' Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Sam Allardyce and implemented my interpretation of these managers styles into the game very successfully, I think it safe to assume I have done as much work (maybe more in some cases) in trying to understand 'systems' and not just randomly throwing roles at players that they cannot fulfill.

I watch my game very intently and so maybe I 'see' more than you 'key moment highlight' players with your downloaded 'so called' win tactics.

I look for exploitable area's and also see where I am being exploited, I might change shape/role's to exploit those key area's or to cover where I am being exploited, I sometimes lose when clearly the better team and sometimes win when getting pwned.....but that's football folks and I don't have an issue with that.

Football is a game of force Vs resistance and many's the time I have had the much better squad and had to sit back and soak up pressure from a weaker team because I was trying to win with force while they where trying to win with resistance, I'm not a tactical genius but I'm not a tactical dunce either as you all seem to keep implying.

Once the dye is cast it is sometimes very hard to change a result, sometimes I get my tactic wrong and TBH I love it when that happens....win win win = Zzzzzzz.

Tactic's DO NOT account for the anomaly's I mentioned, they all happened, some more than others but those aside, this is a thread about inconstancy.

It's is very difficult for me and others to understand why a team just stop's performing, there are no prior warning, no indications that this all about to go belly up.

Not just one player can't pass...the whole team can't pass, or tackle, or intercept, or head the ball, or keep the ball, or make a simple save.

Moral is high, the opposing team are not playing in an unusual way or in a way I hadn't accounted for. (I scout teams myself, look for injuries, possible replacements, previous tactics, results, best player, most passes player, tallest, fastest etc etc....I am very diligent)

I see these dips happen in real life too, great teams as a unit perform really really bad (seen it at the world cup this year) but here in FM that 'switch' is perhaps turned up a little to high and needs knocking back a bit, so does the plummeting moral crash knock-on from an ensuing defeat especially if moral was high before the game and managers didnt get team their talk's completely wrong.

I am not alone in seeing these problems with the game, a game I have played for close to ten years.

FM14 looks good but plays bad, so many issues to mention and too many fanboys with a blinkered view.

[Kenco]

But as the OP pointed out "One game they are world beaters who spank Arsenal 4-1 the next game they forget how to play the game" and for once I was agreeing with him.

In my original post #17 I was responding to KENKO's higher than thou response that it is a tactical issue, it's clearly not.

It is my firm belief that there is a fundamental problem with the game/code/ME.

How is the OP clearly not a tactical issue? It's too vague to clearly prove anything, so I offered up an opinion. I firmly believe you can get around these sort of inconsistent results with a better understanding of how to implement tactics. Actually I don't believe it - I know it for a fact. Do you have any evidence of this fundamental problem?

[Svenc]

Bugs do exist, no excuses. However it all affects not only the player's team, but all teams around him as well, and it is worth keeping that in mind. I don't know what is behind all the reductionist thinking though. It is never "just" your tactics being the reason for succcess/failure. Nor is it your man management, nor is it your players. And it 100% won't be your team talks. On the occasioniIt might not even be YOU, the one guy who in it all that never kicks a single ball, but for some reason takes all the credit for success. Players and their quality are naturally a huge factor though. On the last few incarnations I deliberately set up tactics that would completely isolate forwards or leave them out of options when in possession by not giving them support, and you can see why good players would even make up for such a tactics to an extent: It is simply that better defenders win more headers, more tackles, don't lose their players due to marking errors as much.

Similarily better wingers win far more dribblings (runs) and open space themselves, players out of options with would just bang in goals themselves, better forwards don't need as much chances, that is, effectively superior skill rather than team tactics can still win you games. To get Barcelona fail to qualify for CL football, it would take something very special. For that insight you don't need to make such test runs, but simply take a look at your competition's player statistics. Naturally this is all hampered if squad morale is low, which is another thing than motivation/focus. Bad man management can make any team underperform, and from my experience it is a very bad idea to insist on risky, aggressive tactics with a team currently out of all of its depth.

Also in a way FM is bound to make for a not very satisfying gaming experience, at least in the traditional sense. Take a look at the coming league seasons: You just know that Hull City won't compete for any championship. On FM likewise, there is only so much you can do to influence things. Just holidaying and letting your assistants do everything, heck, you might even find they would finish better than you sometimes (I actually urge any player massively struggling to just try, you'll see). Injuries, bad and good runs of form of all competing teams equally shape the final standings.

Not just one player can't pass...the whole team can't pass, or tackle, or intercept, or head the ball, or keep the ball, or make a simple save.

Unfortunately, this is very hard to take any kind of seriously.

[Aramith]

How is the OP clearly not a tactical issue? It's too vague to clearly prove anything

If is so vague why offer this patronizing opinion?

This for me is a tactical issue and you need to change your approach for these games. There is plenty of help in the tactics forum if you ask nicely.

[Cougar2010]

If is so vague why offer this patronizing opinion?

Pot, kettle, black much?

Its like you have split personality disorder Aramith, you make some good points in your posts but then they are mixed in with some ridiculous comments and you top it all off by calling everyone fanboys

[Kenco]

I don't see a problem with what I said.

[RTHerringbone]

Excellent, looks like another thread has run its course.

Not to worry, I'm sure another along these lines will be created before long.