TACTIC- 3-1-5-1 Amen 13.3.2 / 13.3.3

[bram09]

do we keep the training on tactics only all the way through the season?

[andrefanta]

do we keep the training on tactics only all the way through the season?

tactics at the beginning.

Balanced / average during

[jefflackey]

put the normal tackle all players

Yes, did that and it didn't seem to hurt the defense much. It reduced the yellow card level to much more "normal" results.

[jefflackey]

I have found that pushing the two wingers up to AML and AMR, and putting them in Advanced Playmaker roles, makes a big difference in offense. I've replayed several matches several times with them in the default tactic position/role, and moved up and in AP, and every time (within the variability of matches) there is a significant positive difference.

Of course, as in all things, it could certainly be related to my players also. I have a lower league team (Swindon, L1.) So just info to use as you see fit. But so far, this has been a very solid tactic for me and my team. We don't destroy superior teams - that would not be realistic - but we seem to play better teams very well (our two FA cup matches against teams from a league up - our L1 vs. Championship league teams - have resulted in a solid win and a very even draw, though the latter one had us on our heels and under attack most of the match.)

[andrefanta]

Yes, did that and it didn't seem to hurt the defense much. It reduced the yellow card level to much more "normal" results.

then it's okay!

[andrefanta]

I have found that pushing the two wingers up to AML and AMR, and putting them in Advanced Playmaker roles, makes a big difference in offense. I've replayed several matches several times with them in the default tactic position/role, and moved up and in AP, and every time (within the variability of matches) there is a significant positive difference.

Of course, as in all things, it could certainly be related to my players also. I have a lower league team (Swindon, L1.) So just info to use as you see fit. But so far, this has been a very solid tactic for me and my team. We don't destroy superior teams - that would not be realistic - but we seem to play better teams very well (our two FA cup matches against teams from a league up - our L1 vs. Championship league teams - have resulted in a solid win and a very even draw, though the latter one had us on our heels and under attack most of the match.)

You can change many things in this tactic, nothing will be dramatically because it is a plug and play if you want to change roles of the players must clear all comics Instructions Player ...

but if you change positions but it can affect the formation tactic

[rich_barnes]

andre

I'm just finnishing a season with PSG (with a very strong team, yet with a lot of new players) with a tweaked version of the tactic.

Basically what I did was change the striker's role to advanced forward (much better performances....), and the wingers position to AML and AMR. Just wondering if someone else wants to test it and see how it goes. To me it seems a lot better attacking, and still solid at the back (see goals against in the league!!!).

I'm still to play the CL final against Bayern and one league match. Some pics:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/334137d1366645303-tactic-3-1-5-1-amen-13-3-2-13-3-3-2013-04-22_00001.jpg

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/334138d1366645308-tactic-3-1-5-1-amen-13-3-2-13-3-3-2013-04-22_00002.jpg

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/334139d1366645328-tactic-3-1-5-1-amen-13-3-2-13-3-3-2013-04-22_00004.jpg

You know that all the striker setting are set manually, and if you change the role to advanced forward all the settings stay the same, so there is actually no difference with your striker even though you changed his role, unless you unticked all the instructions.

[jefflackey]

You know that all the striker setting are set manually, and if you change the role to advanced forward all the settings stay the same, so there is actually no difference with your striker even though you changed his role, unless you unticked all the instructions.

That is a very good point. I do wonder if there are things attached to the role that go beyond those settings, as I moved players up and changed the role from Winger to Advanced Playmaker, without changing instructions, and tested in the same match replayed 5 times, then changed the role back to Winger, without changing instructions, and got very different results and play styles. Coincidence perhaps.

[andrefanta]

That is a very good point. I do wonder if there are things attached to the role that go beyond those settings, as I moved players up and changed the role from Winger to Advanced Playmaker, without changing instructions, and tested in the same match replayed 5 times, then changed the role back to Winger, without changing instructions, and got very different results and play styles. Coincidence perhaps.

you can go back 15 times a game and you will never win or play as the other ...

I already tested many things.

[jefflackey]

you can go back 15 times a game and you will never win or play as the other ...

I already tested many things.

Of course that makes it difficult to know how the tactic itself is making a difference!

There are things you can see, though. For example, I could see the player in the position, with one role, having more scoring opportunities, more openings, more passing opportunities, etc. vs, the other role. I think there are things you can see when you make changes, though of course things will never be identical (thank goodness because real life is also full of variability!)

[andrefanta]

Of course that makes it difficult to know how the tactic itself is making a difference!

There are things you can see, though. For example, I could see the player in the position, with one role, having more scoring opportunities, more openings, more passing opportunities, etc. vs, the other role. I think there are things you can see when you make changes, though of course things will never be identical (thank goodness because real life is also full of variability!)

ok you have reason! What about the tactic made ​​the classic way with little arrows?

if you Winzard mode puts a player in the role of "W" cutting inside, rarely crossing. he will play the role of an IF ..

then this is a crock of role ...

not to be that you put in that role and that role does not change instructions

[Jor-el321]

I won the PL in my first season with Liverpool - 90pts in the end, 22 goals conceded. It is certainly very good defensively and decent in attack.

Suarez really struggled. I asked earlier in the thread but didn't get a response so i'm just wondering again who would be the perfect striker for this formation. Lewandowski? good finisher, good workrate etc. Lewandowski's not the best dribbler in the world though. Borini has done quite well for me.

Any thoughts?

[MarcWeir]

It may be just me but my strikers score very little is there anything i can do, my midfielders are my main scorers

[kawaii]

change "run from deep" to sometimes, will make the trick, the best striker i got who scored more goals with this tactic was llorent, so perhaps u could find player alike. hf

[kawaii]

btw for people who prefer to play with 4 at the back, andrefante released another tactic, which i already tested, its still rly good at the back, but i felt the attack was much improved. its a 4-1-4-1 for sure ppl will be more interested in this formation

[andrefanta]

I won the PL in my first season with Liverpool - 90pts in the end, 22 goals conceded. It is certainly very good defensively and decent in attack.

Suarez really struggled. I asked earlier in the thread but didn't get a response so i'm just wondering again who would be the perfect striker for this formation. Lewandowski? good finisher, good workrate etc. Lewandowski's not the best dribbler in the world though. Borini has done quite well for me.

Any thoughts?

Borini is great for this formation ..

[andrefanta]

It may be just me but my strikers score very little is there anything i can do, my midfielders are my main scorers

The tactic was created with this thought ... but puts run from the deep sometimes and this will improve

[chob]

I won the PL in my first season with Liverpool - 90pts in the end, 22 goals conceded. It is certainly very good defensively and decent in attack.

Suarez really struggled. I asked earlier in the thread but didn't get a response so i'm just wondering again who would be the perfect striker for this formation. Lewandowski? good finisher, good workrate etc. Lewandowski's not the best dribbler in the world though. Borini has done quite well for me.

Any thoughts?

I sold suarez, he struggled and always got sent off.

I bought Rodrigo, who at the start of the game is at SLB in Portugal. He scores much more and doesn't get sent off anywhere near as much as Suarez.

[andrefanta]

I sold suarez, he struggled and always got sent off.

I bought Rodrigo, who at the start of the game is at SLB in Portugal. He scores much more and doesn't get sent off anywhere near as much as Suarez.

Rodrigo is very good player .. good buy!

[rich_barnes]

btw for people who prefer to play with 4 at the back, andrefante released another tactic, which i already tested, its still rly good at the back, but i felt the attack was much improved. its a 4-1-4-1 for sure ppl will be more interested in this formation

I think the 4-1-4-1 is a better tactic, I tried both for a full season with Derby in the championship, the 3-1-5-1 got me the title with 93 points, I then tried the 4-1-4-1 and I won the title with 114 points!!! Pretty much had the same players in both saves, apart from having fullbacks in the second test, I bought the same players in midfield and central defence and had the same striker and wingers in both games. I would recommend the 4-1-4-1 over this one.

[KingEric07]

WHERE i can find this!? plz? link!? gonna test it immediatly!

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/118200-tactic-fanta-4-1-4-1-lies-down-cries-13-3-3-a.html

[Savell]

Hey andrefante,

Is there any chance you could make the 4-1-4-1 into a classic Tactic using the wizard so we can import it into Football Manager Classic?

[andrefanta]

Hey andrefante,

Is there any chance you could make the 4-1-4-1 into a classic Tactic using the wizard so we can import it into Football Manager Classic?

I'm out of time, don't know when I'll be able to do that.

[Earnie is God!]

is something happened at the end of the season, had not yet seen it with this tactic .. but it can happen. good luck with Tottenham

Worked ok with Spurs but I missed Cardiff too much so went back to my save and turned down the Spurs job.

Kept with your tactic and results for Cardiff for the rest of the season weren't bad but not great. Still, finished 8th and won the FA Cup.

In the end of season stats, seven of the top eight players for distance covered in a game were my midfielders!

Just shows how much they have to work during a match.

New season about to start and I've managed to buy a few more players to suit the tactic more.

Lewandowski was out of contract at Dortmund. Tried many times to sign him but he didn't want to. Not surprising really as we are only Cardiff.

Finally, he wanted to discuss a contract but wanted more than we could afford. I adjusted our budget to try and give more wages but still he wanted more

Managed to get him in the end though, for £65k/wk but also needed to give him a £20k goal bonus and a £20k appearance bonus. On top of a huge loyalty bonus and a massive agent fee.

If he doesn't do the business for us we are in trouble!!

[Earnie is God!]

Results were ok but this tactic has killed my team for fitness.

Far too many injuries and we just can't cope.

I know you say to reduce the training but that didn't do any good either.

On top of that, my players weren't improving their skills much due to the reduced training.

Sorry but have now scrapped this tactic for good.

Yes, it may work for some but I much rather see my players improving with training and gaining the results on the pitch that way.

Best of luck with it anyway.

[andrefanta]

Results were ok but this tactic has killed my team for fitness.

Far too many injuries and we just can't cope.

I know you say to reduce the training but that didn't do any good either.

On top of that, my players weren't improving their skills much due to the reduced training.

Sorry but have now scrapped this tactic for good.

Yes, it may work for some but I much rather see my players improving with training and gaining the results on the pitch that way.

Best of luck with it anyway.

to me it has improved several players, and it worked just right .. is a problem with something that you are doing .. but thanks ..

[Jor-el321]

Had to really earn my first CL win in my second season with Liverpool.

Barca in the group stages, Bayern in 1st Knockout round, Barca in Qtr final, Man Utd in semi, and Real Madrid in the final.

Bought Falcao for £30m at the start of the season. He had a very slow start and up until March i was thinking of offloading him in the summer but he picked up towards the end and actually ended up with the golden boot!

I've just bought Wilshere at the start of my 3rd season for £17.75m. His finishing is at 12-13 but he has other good stats and seems to have a good mentality. He is in the middle now with Vidal and Shelvey (a God on this game if you can get him)

[andrefanta]

Had to really earn my first CL win in my second season with Liverpool.

Barca in the group stages, Bayern in 1st Knockout round, Barca in Qtr final, Man Utd in semi, and Real Madrid in the final.

Bought Falcao for £30m at the start of the season. He had a very slow start and up until March i was thinking of offloading him in the summer but he picked up towards the end and actually ended up with the golden boot!

I've just bought Wilshere at the start of my 3rd season for £17.75m. His finishing is at 12-13 but he has other good stats and seems to have a good mentality. He is in the middle now with Vidal and Shelvey (a God on this game if you can get him)

So far everything is going well? .. excelent shopping lool .. and good luck in the next season..

[Jor-el321]

So far everything is going well? .. excelent shopping lool .. and good luck in the next season..

Going very well mate, thanks for your hard work.

If anyone is thinking of starting a new game with this tactic i would reiterate my advice to start with Liverpool. They have so many players who fit the system perfectly.

[J.T]

Going pretty well using my FMC version with pushed up wingers. I have been using it since 20 games.

[Jor-el321]

Starting to find a problem with this in my 3rd season as Liverpool. Away to the weaker teams (and sometimes at home) it is extremely difficult to get a result. They have all started playing a 4-5-1 and i am getting alot of bore draws and a few losses.

I won the league the last 2 years but i am 3rd at the moment and the gap is getting wider because i keep dropping points. Is there anyway to combat this?

[andrefanta]

Starting to find a problem with this in my 3rd season as Liverpool. Away to the weaker teams (and sometimes at home) it is extremely difficult to get a result. They have all started playing a 4-5-1 and i am getting alot of bore draws and a few losses.

I won the league the last 2 years but i am 3rd at the moment and the gap is getting wider because i keep dropping points. Is there anyway to combat this?

I don't know, because they have not yet arrived at a 3rd season.

maybe it is a phase of the team, as with all .. you can not always win!

[Jor-el321]

I don't know, because they have not yet arrived at a 3rd season.

maybe it is a phase of the team, as with all .. you can not always win!

Thats true mate. It still ended up as a close race. I had alot of injuries during this season as well so that may have had a big influence.

Still finished 2nd and got to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

[Drummer22]

Good tactic...im playing with viking fc and my last 2 games is 5-1 and 3-2

[masmac]

Starting to find a problem with this in my 3rd season as Liverpool. Away to the weaker teams (and sometimes at home) it is extremely difficult to get a result. They have all started playing a 4-5-1 and i am getting alot of bore draws and a few losses.

I won the league the last 2 years but i am 3rd at the moment and the gap is getting wider because i keep dropping points. Is there anyway to combat this?

I have the same experience. My players seem to lose track of tempo and movement. Especially the wingers looks like they don't know what to do at all! Right now I'm testing having both wingers set as Inside Forwards, one step up the field, as it is completely impossible to get them to do any defensive work anyway.

[andrefanta]

Thats true mate. It still ended up as a close race. I had alot of injuries during this season as well so that may have had a big influence.

Still finished 2nd and got to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

Its good man.

[Earnie is God!]

Starting to find a problem with this in my 3rd season as Liverpool. Away to the weaker teams (and sometimes at home) it is extremely difficult to get a result. They have all started playing a 4-5-1 and i am getting alot of bore draws and a few losses.

I won the league the last 2 years but i am 3rd at the moment and the gap is getting wider because i keep dropping points. Is there anyway to combat this?

Yup, I had the same problem which I mentioned earlier (post #91 on the first page), "I found teams played 5 men in midfield against me and we couldn't break them down." We went from thrashing some teams and scoring loads to just one win in 12 matches.

That, on top of the injuries, was just too much.

I've since been using a combination of Arrigo Saachi's 442 (for the difficult matches) and JP Woody's Standard/Attacking tactics for the rest. Results have been pretty good although we haven't started this new season well. Some of our best results have been with the Arrigo one, beating Man U 4-0 in the FA Cup final and Real Madrid 4-0 in the CL opening group game. The problem with that tactic, like with this one, is it just takes too much out of the players and injuries mount up.

So that's why I think a combination of tactics is probably the best approach.

[Scholl]

Yup, I had the same problem which I mentioned earlier (post #91 on the first page), "I found teams played 5 men in midfield against me and we couldn't break them down." We went from thrashing some teams and scoring loads to just one win in 12 matches.

That, on top of the injuries, was just too much.

I've since been using a combination of Arrigo Saachi's 442 (for the difficult matches) and JP Woody's Standard/Attacking tactics for the rest. Results have been pretty good although we haven't started this new season well. Some of our best results have been with the Arrigo one, beating Man U 4-0 in the FA Cup final and Real Madrid 4-0 in the CL opening group game. The problem with that tactic, like with this one, is it just takes too much out of the players and injuries mount up.

So that's why I think a combination of tactics is probably the best approach.

Hi there

I've been using as well this tactic for away games nad Arrigo Sachi's 442 more for the home games and it has been working very well for me and my Bayern squad. Won the CL-Keague twice in a row. I think the mixure of the diferente tactics makes the difference. The AI can't really comply with that.

Cheers

[Jimmyrh94]

For some reason the marcelo tweak isnt working for me :s Can someone tell me how they have used the tactic in their game to get the most out of it..training, match prep..line up etc?

Sorry, i don't mean to ask to be spoon fed!

[Jor-el321]

I have the same experience. My players seem to lose track of tempo and movement. Especially the wingers looks like they don't know what to do at all! Right now I'm testing having both wingers set as Inside Forwards, one step up the field, as it is completely impossible to get them to do any defensive work anyway.

I'd be interested to see how that goes for you.

I'm no tactical expert but i would think with a 5 man midfield and a DM behind them it is going to get very congested in the middle if you also make your wingers inside forwards. Of course that may be slightly different if you move your wingers forward as someone suggested earlier in the thread.

I'm now in season 4 so i've had alot of transfer windows to build up a squad. To solve the 5 man midfield issue (from he opposition) i think you need alot of good CMs. I play the very attacking CMs against the smaller teams and the more combative CMs against the bigger teams.

I think its also essential that you get the best striker possible. I have Falcao and he has been doing fantastic. He scores a hell of alot of goals with his head from crosses. I think that means that while you do need someone who is competent running with the ball you also need someone strong and good in the air. The best finisher possible to score those rare chances you get in those tight games.

[gonaL]

First game using this tactic is 8:0! Dortmund 8:0 HSV. Will test it more times to give detailed feedback

[ScottyH]

Been using this for my Newcastle game, was struggling to make or create a good tactic first season. So far have only lost 1 out of 9 games using it which was Arsenal away, and have beat Atletico Madrid away, Man City at home, Liverpool away. Cisse has been on fire upfront with Cabaye, Wellington Nem and Sissoko playing class in midfield all bagging goals! Thanks for this

[dioufy_is_god]

Hi Guys any chance of a alternate download desperate to give this tactic ago

[ReeceWoodhall]

What's the team instructions for this tactic?

[HakanMild]

I've played with this tactic for 10+ seasons in a career game all over the world playing with 7+ teams (clubs and international). I won the league in Romania, Mexico, won the North American CL with said Mexican team, won the Gold Cup with Canada, African Nations Cup with Cameroon and Euros and Confed Cup with Holland. It's been my favourite and most successful tactic in fm13 so far. I like that this tactic plays well in high pressure situations. I've noticed super tactics sometimes are great versus lower/mid teams but this tactic has done great in final matches. The team usually gets possession over 50% and a lot more chances than the opponents (lots of shots on net!)

Example of success:

http://i.imgur.com/AbHkP6c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2NJlL9O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CLFipTt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3EucCcC.jpg

I've paid a lot of attention to player performances so that I can buy the right players for the right position. I was forced to do so because I kept switching teams, so I always had to evaluate which player best fits for which position. Some of the things I noticed:

-It's of great benefit to have a good passer in the DM position. This position gets the ball the most and makes the most passes in a game. Think deep-lying playmaker. If he is good defensively, that is a bonus. Ideal player would be someone like Busquetes, Arteta etc... this position controls the tempo. If you get a good passer in this position it will be very easy for them to get a high average rating. Your team passes flow much better in such a case.

-The defenders get a lot of the ball, compared to other tactics. They play with the ball alot with the goalie, the DM and between themselves. So therefore you will benefit alot if the DCs are decent with the ball and passing. I noticed the middle defender (DC) will get the ball the least amount of times, and if he does have it, it's easier for him to pass to a fellow DC than other way around. So I would play your worst passing defender in the centre. Here I prefer someone who is great physically. I like someone who has the best heading here (jumping/heading/bravery) because if a high ball comes I like if this player runs to get it, leaving the side DCs in better position in case the opponents get the ball. I also change the setting and put this player as my near-post corner guy. I had a player with 20 jumping here once and he got 10+ goals a season from corners. If I have a slower player I put them as one of the side DCs. If they have high aggressiveness and tackling it works pretty well. The thinking here is that it's important for the centre DC to run after someone if a through ball gets in. Overall I noticed, as I said before, that having a good passer is good in defence, but also good speed is needed for this tactic. I would prefer to have a player with high physical stats compared to one with high tackling/marking/positioning. But those don't hurt. So overall you need someone who does a bit of everything, not great advice here.

-For the wingers I believe that fast crossers with the correct foot (e.g. Right for RM) are best. These players sometimes get space where if they are fast they can get to the end of the field, outside the outer lines of the opponent's box, very fast. From here they cross or lay the ball back from one of the (many) incoming MCs.

-The forward is not they typical one you'd expect. Ideally I see someone like Lewandowski working best. You can actually play many different types of players here. I've had pacey strikers but this doesn't work as well as their star level indicates. Sure they sometimes run past defenders from a through-ball but it doesn't happen as often as I like. I noticed players with high finishing, work-rate and teamwork do best here. Often the forward acts like a target man. They get the ball deep and lay it off to the MCs. Often the MCs go up the pitch more than the forward. Someone who heads the ball well doesn't have their skill used as often as I'd like. You would think that a good passer would be great. It doesn't hurt but I've had players with 10 in passing that still do well lay-ing off balls. So I'd look more to having good decisions/concentration/composure than passing/creativity. This player doesn't run as much as the midfield so stamina isn't critical either. So if I wanted to maximize the skills my forward has, I'd get someone with high finishing, work-rate, team-work, determination. Secondarily I'd get decent passing, good decision, concentration, composure, balance, strength. Heading and jumping aren't so important. If you are going to use a pacey dribbler, that is fine but make sure they have good mental attributes. This player can get a decent amount of goals but you need to be able to rely on them if they are of this mould (think someone not like Robinho).

-The centre MC gets the fewer passes to him. He has a good chance of scoring goals, like the other MCs. So I play my worst MC passer in the center. I noticed someone once fast, with good finishing, work rate and teamwork does well here. Being a good ball-winning MC doesn't hurt. For the side MCs I put the better passers. The finishing doesn't need to be as good because when they get to the ball diagonally in front of goal, it's easier for them to score than from being centrally in front of it (just from what I noticed). MCs get a lot of chances to score, compared to other tactics. Speed in the MC positions is more important also than with other tactics.

-The goalie gets a lot of the ball so it's nice for him to have good decision/composure/concentration.

Here are some examples of players who did well for me, despite having only moderate current ability. I want to show you this so you can see where certain attributes are more important than others.

Fwds:

http://i.imgur.com/TnfAoAV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VGGHmg5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/teNzyPQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jTKXPfN.jpg

Side MCs:

http://i.imgur.com/wxwZqez.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3IKJ1Pp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lCQGOFc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MuaEEJp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kXfL1nL.jpg

Centre MCs:

http://i.imgur.com/y8kbvrY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/K6JoKef.jpg

DMs:

http://i.imgur.com/4QHxAeB.jpg

Side DCs:

http://i.imgur.com/4xzx3D2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CTcWoAz.jpg

Center DCs:

http://i.imgur.com/UUQjwfp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2SodGVj.jpg

GKs:

http://i.imgur.com/dRFHgBN.jpg

[Jim-Beam]

How effective have people found this away from home? just curious as I'm still using Dortmund away from home but I'm winning but games are far too open but this is amazing at home...?

[karl b]

Been struggling to break into top 4 in English prem so guna give this a go.........

[karl b]

so far W6 D1 L4.....3 of those losses were my last 3 games but do include Arsenal and Chelsea and a very tired young small squad

[karl b]

now won 1 in my last 8.................SERIOUSLY???????

[kentclark]

This is the ONLY tactic i have had consistent succes with i FM 13. It takes a few games for it to kick in, but eventually it works its magic and I have great results.

I change the strategy from Overload to contain, that makes for a far better defense. You dont score as much though, but a 1 -0 victory is better than 2 -4 defeat