Unrealistic Transfer Fees?

[EnriqueZove]

bahahaha ;s

That's great..

[EnriqueZove]

Rooney: Throws toys out of pram and wails like big baby "Want more! Want More! WANT MORE!!!!!" Utd; "Fine heres our offer (hands over contract of 200k per week)".

Even as a united fan, I would agree with your wording. Really Funny.

[EnriqueZove]

What about the reverse when you refuse to sell your important player?

Their agent would come running, renegotiate contract even when it was done only 3 months back.

Then you reject the request and all hell break loose. Moreover, once a player becomes unhappy with you, there is absolutely no way to make him happy again. (tried everything)

[Motherlover]

What's unrealistic is that you're the Arsenal manager. What enables that?? You playing a game. A game.

What a worthless argument.

The fact that you are a manager is the game's central conceit. It is the primary fiction with which you are meant to suspend your disbelief.

However the function of rest of the game is actually distinctly different. Once you have accepted the fiction that you are the games' manager, the rest of the world is more or less meant to conform to realistic rules and probabilities.

If it consistently fails to do this, you'll likely find it harder to suspend your disbelief that you are experiancing life as a football manager and the game simply won't be as fun.

So yes. Ultimately it is only a game, but realism happens to be damned important to making the game an immersive and enjoyable fiction.

[Lazaru5]

What a worthless argument.

The fact that you are a manager is the game's central conceit. It is the primary fiction with which you are meant to suspend your disbelief.

However the function of rest of the game is actually distinctly different. Once you have accepted the fiction that you are the games' manager, the rest of the world is more or less meant to conform to realistic rules and probabilities.

If it consistently fails to do this, you'll likely find it harder to suspend your disbelief that you are experiancing life as a football manager and the game simply won't be as fun.

So yes. Ultimately it is only a game, but realism happens to be damned important to making the game an immersive and enjoyable fiction.

so is it realistic that, even in the demo, you can sign players that IRL clubs didn't/haven't/won't be doing?

As for the transfer fees... what do you do when the big clubs come sniffing round your best players/youngsters? If a club enquires about a player of mine that I do not want to sell under any circumstances they get a negotiated response that, usually, values the player at the maximum amount the game allows you to choose when all clauses and additions are taken into account. I particularly like to include the buy-back clause at something like 15% the actual value of the transfer... you know they're gonna say no, or "withdraw their interest", which doesn't upset nobody but the AI manager that just got told to .... off! They do it to me, I do it to them... bloody annoying though I must agree even though I do it myself

[x42bn6]

Its ludicrous to think anyone would ever offer £120M for him or even £30M for him, not even City would throw that kind of money at Sanga. So basically your trying to compare an unrealistic real life situation to what is happening in FM and expecting realistic results.

Two wrongs don't make a right, though. The AI should still react in a sensible way. There is a reasonable response to £120m for Sagna in reality.

Arsenal in reality would bite your hand off if you offered £120m for Sagna, simply because they can improve on him and then some for that sum of money.

In-game, the Arsenal AI should do exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the offer is sensible or not.

You can play 0-0-0-5-5 if you want, which is clearly a stupid formation, and the AI should exploit that too. The AI shouldn't go haywire once it encounters an unusual situation.

[Motherlover]

so is it realistic that, even in the demo, you can sign players that IRL clubs didn't/haven't/won't be doing?

With reference to my post, yes. Becoming a manager is a jumping off point. Everything else follows from your entry into the footballing world.

FM does a very decent job of modelling the footballing world despite having a ludicriously large number of variables to work with... also despite lacking any representation or calculation of the frequently unsavoury baggage of the real world. Football Manager is actually very conservative. But to be fair fans do have a tendancy to jump on SI's back whenever things wind up substantially different to the way they are in the present. Sociologists say that people generally expect things to change quicker than they ever actually do, but conversely they generally fail to anticipate quite how much things change over time.

There is always a danger of deterministic thinking, that because things actually turned out a certain way they were always bound to do so. Personally I think this is absolute nonsense. Fluke events change the course of history all the time. Can you imagine how different history might have been if 10 members of Tottenham's first team hadn't succumbed to food poisening in the 05/06 season and narrowly missed out on a CL qualifaction spot? It's very easy to be cynical about their chances, but moments like these have both obvious and intangiable effects. They effect careers, reputations and player's confidence in their own abilities. Just because a simulation cannot accurately predict the future doesn't mean it is flawed. One shouldn't conflate what actually happens within a single run of a simulation with what is 'realistic'. Run the same simulation a thousand times and then see.

[BossAsianMafia]

so is it realistic that, even in the demo, you can sign players that IRL clubs didn't/haven't/won't be doing?

As for the transfer fees... what do you do when the big clubs come sniffing round your best players/youngsters? If a club enquires about a player of mine that I do not want to sell under any circumstances they get a negotiated response that, usually, values the player at the maximum amount the game allows you to choose when all clauses and additions are taken into account. I particularly like to include the buy-back clause at something like 15% the actual value of the transfer... you know they're gonna say no, or "withdraw their interest", which doesn't upset nobody but the AI manager that just got told to .... off! They do it to me, I do it to them... bloody annoying though I must agree even though I do it myself

Personally I would prefer a system where a "I'm not willing to sell for any price" suffices rather than this repeated haggling to find the right price to put the AI off. Unfortunately the way it works in-game is:

1) You reject the offer out right. The player's agent then demands a new contract (regardless of the loyalty of the player). This is repeated ad nauseum as the AI club will repeatedly bid the same amount.

2) You negotiate/set a high asking price so other clubs don't bid in the future/in the first place.

Both of these scenarios are not very realistic...

[treble_yell_:-)]

Have to question how many people here have their warped view of the transfer market formed from the EPL.

[represor]

I offered 25M euro cash for mario fernandes and they refused asking for 48M , is this realistic ? I don't think so.

since when does brasilian clubs reject 25M euros cash for a 19 years old defender ?

he might be a good youngster and maybe the club regards him high but still I can't recall when some brazilian club rejected a real offer of 25M for a defender.

[AcidBurn]

I offered 25M euro cash for mario fernandes and they refused asking for 48M , is this realistic ? I don't think so.

since when does brasilian clubs reject 25M euros cash for a 19 years old defender ?

he might be a good youngster and maybe the club regards him high but still I can't recall when some brazilian club rejected a real offer of 25M for a defender.

Nothing wrong with that at all if you negotiated they would accept around 35m Euro's. He is probably one of their top players and they know his potential and they know if you offer 25m straight out then they can get more from you.

[represor]

I didn't offer straight up 25M because it is an unrealistic fee.

I offered 10M hoping to get at maximum 15M wich is more than a realistic fee for a youngster defender with great potential ... they rejected and rejected until I arrived at 25M and then they asked for 48M.

I don't remember any brazilian youngster defender or from anywhere else to be payed 35M, not even nesta/cannavaro/baresi/maldini/lucio or anyone you can remember as worldclass defenders was worth 35M when they were 19 years old and had no national team caps ... absolutely no one.

let's be real ... I'm not here to blame the game but to help improve it because FM is meant to be as close as possible to reality and if we don 't mention flaws in the game then they won't be able to improve it.

[Graham206]

In real life transfers often fall through because the clubs cannot agree a fee, or there are some which take several bouts of negotiation to reach agreement. Neymar has been about be be transferred for an eternity and it hasn't happened yet. Chelsea tried to get Torres several times before getting their man with a much bigger last minute offer, then tried exactly the same tactics with Modric and failed.

I don't think it would be realistic if - and this is how some of the complaints here read to me - you want a player and if you bid enough you will always get them worked.

[AcidBurn]

I didn't offer straight up 25M because it is an unrealistic fee.

I offered 10M hoping to get at maximum 15M wich is more than a realistic fee for a youngster defender with great potential ... they rejected and rejected until I arrived at 25M and then they asked for 48M.

I don't remember any brazilian youngster defender or from anywhere else to be payed 35M, not even nesta/cannavaro/baresi/maldini/lucio or anyone you can remember as worldclass defenders was worth 35M when they were 19 years old and had no national team caps ... absolutely no one.

let's be real ... I'm not here to blame the game but to help improve it because FM is meant to be as close as possible to reality and if we don 't mention flaws in the game then they won't be able to improve it.

We will just have to agree to disagree I think there is not too much wrong with your example. I bet you would not sell your most promising CB for 25m Euro's if you knew he would turn out to be world class. Prices also tend to be a lot higher at the start of a save than a season or so in.

Also as I have said how come people do not complain when they get a player cheap?

[milnerpoint]

Two wrongs don't make a right, though. The AI should still react in a sensible way. There is a reasonable response to £120m for Sagna in reality.

Arsenal in reality would bite your hand off if you offered £120m for Sagna, simply because they can improve on him and then some for that sum of money.

In-game, the Arsenal AI should do exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the offer is sensible or not.

You can play 0-0-0-5-5 if you want, which is clearly a stupid formation, and the AI should exploit that too. The AI shouldn't go haywire once it encounters an unusual situation.

But in reality no one would ever offer £120M so your point is completely moot im afriad. Again your creating an unrealistic situation and expecting realistic results.

[milnerpoint]

Also as I have said how come people do not complain when they get a player cheap?

Because, without starting a flame war, people only complain when they dont get things their way, have to over pay and they will complain, underpay and they will never mention it.

[Golaxi]

if arsenal rejecting 120 million for sagna is true you just can't defend that. Wether or not someone would bid that in real is niether here nor there, the fact is you HAVE bid that. I reccomend you post that in the bugs forum. Besides if ur man city and have unlimited money, maybe you would bid that

[treble_yell_:-)]

Because, without starting a flame war, people only complain when they dont get things their way, have to over pay and they will complain, underpay and they will never mention it.

That's utter rubbish and you know it. There was plenty of complaining last season during 11.2 when top class players were being sold for toffee.

[x42bn6]

But in reality no one would ever offer £120M so your point is completely moot im afriad. Again your creating an unrealistic situation and expecting realistic results.

Not true! The game is about fantasy and what-if. I really don't understand how you can defend Arsenal rejecting £120m for Sagna - that would be a straight-up bug to me.

All software should be able to cope with normal and extreme user inputs. You don't go back to your customers and say "play the game more realistically - it's not a bug" - the whole point of this game is that we get to play it realistically or unrealistically, and the game will react in an acceptable way.

Arsenal rejecting £120m for Sagna is in no way reasonable. It's a bug, full-stop.

[milnerpoint]

well just as a test i stated another city game, bid £120M for Sanga and the board of Arsenal stepped in and accepted, try it yourself. So i dont believe the person who said they wouldnt, no bug im afraid.

[x42bn6]

well just as a test i stated another city game, bid £120M for Sanga and the board of Arsenal stepped in and accepted, try it yourself. So i dont believe the person who said they wouldnt, no bug im afraid.

In terms of bugs, that's "works for me".

However, the fact it can be replicated in some circumstances means it is a bug.

[milnerpoint]

ok ill restart the demo 10 times and make the same bid each time, if it works 10 times in a row will that be any better, we all play the same game so if my bid is accepted first time every time then you can safely say the same for anyone else starting a new game.

Ill do the same in FM11, i bet i know the results of the test already.

[x42bn6]

ok ill restart the demo 10 times and make the same bid each time, if it works 10 times in a row will that be any better, we all play the same game so if my bid is accepted first time every time then you can safely say the same for anyone else starting a new game.

Ill do the same in FM11, i bet i know the results of the test already.

No, it has nothing to do with "random error" like a potential "too many goals are scored" bug. It's likely more "systematic error" where the user has a set of consequences leading up to the bug. Repeating a test can be useful but doesn't always lead to the replication of the bug, but that's coding for you - it could still be hidden somewhere. So repeating the test is not that useful.

The bug isn't "Arsenal won't accept £120m for Sagna" - the bug is "in this set of circumstances, Arsenal won't accept £120m for Sagna", and the difficulty lies in identifying those set of circumstances.

But then again, given the OP sees an £86m price for Richards, it's fairly clear there's a bug. If they don't want to sell, they should simply say no. If SI think the user needs a gauge for where they will accept, perhaps the assistant can suggest.

(i.e. City don't want to sell Richards but would for £30m, but don't want to show their hand. Arsenal bid £10m and it is slapped back. Pat Rice suggests a £25m bid, Arsenal bid £25m - City counter with £30m plus lots of clauses ("Alright, you've shown us the money... Let's milk them"). Arsenal eventually negotiate down to £28m plus lots of clauses.)

That's how I would see it roughly working. It does mean a user can go round getting players as long as they have the money, but I've argued that transfer budgets are too steep anyway.

[milnerpoint]

Well i refuse to believe it exists, i have now done 10 new starts on the demo, started as City and every single time the board step in above Wenger and accept the £120M, unless someone can prove this has happened its made up as far as im concerned.

Its not a bug, he has bid for Richards, they have basically come back saying we dont want to sell him but if you throw us a crazy amount of money we will sell him to you. Its up to the user to either walk away or keep negotiating. The forums would be flooded with complaints if the AI teams simply said no even if you started bidding unrealistic amounts of money.

[danger_mouse]

Just put it this way, If youre playing as Man Utd and Man City put a £30m bid in for Rooney you reject, then they come back with a £40m bid and you just laugh it off because you know hes worth more than £40m to your squad when he scores 30+ goals a season. My point is Rooney is a Key Player in your squad and you would NOT sell him to a league Rival, Hence why Man City would NOT sell you Richards for £15m.

[AcidBurn]

The transfer market is more dodgy at the start of the game. Richards is more than signable on FM11 after the first season and usually for around £5 million yet at the start he costs a hell of a lot more. On the Sagna issue has anyone tried signing him with someone not in the EPL?

[x42bn6]

Well i refuse to believe it exists, i have now done 10 new starts on the demo, started as City and every single time the board step in above Wenger and accept the £120M, unless someone can prove this has happened its made up as far as im concerned.

As I said, it's the circumstances that matter. It's possible that the bug simply doesn't appear if you bid at the start, but happens further down the line once you do X, Y and Z.

That's where the bug lies - X, Y and Z lead to £120m return offers.

Nobody cares about your quick start test - you've taken the latter part of the bug (£120m for Sagna) and ignored the former (in this set of consequences...)

Its not a bug, he has bid for Richards, they have basically come back saying we dont want to sell him but if you throw us a crazy amount of money we will sell him to you. Its up to the user to either walk away or keep negotiating. The forums would be flooded with complaints if the AI teams simply said no even if you started bidding unrealistic amounts of money.

I think that's a strawman because the ideal game would have the AI accept unrealistic amounts of money.

If the AI doesn't want to show their hand, then they should simply say no and perhaps your assistant will suggest that they are unwilling to show their hand.

There are complaints when the AI asks for ridiculous amounts, and there are complaints when the AI says no - clearly, there is something deeper to this than just the amount being bid, and I think it's the overall negotiation process.

£86m for Richards is a bug, full-stop. If City don't want to negotiate, they would say, "no". If Arsenal offered them silly money, they'd bite. That's what happens in reality - that's what should happen in-game.

[The Welsh Lad]

The game is a simulation every game loaded will react differently to different circumstances. If everyone who bought FM all went the same club they will be different outcomes, hence why one person can buy a player for £40M and another will have to pay £50M, the same happens if you save your game before a match, play the match and lose if you reload the game, you can then win.

If the game followed a rigid format, and everyone knew that player x will be available for x amount, everyone would buy him.

If the chairman of Man City has a random figure for his interference, then one save he could have 20 and another 3. Meaning different outcomes for different games. I personally don't see a problem with it.

[milnerpoint]

As I said, it's the circumstances that matter. It's possible that the bug simply doesn't appear if you bid at the start, but happens further down the line once you do X, Y and Z.

That's where the bug lies - X, Y and Z lead to £120m return offers.

Nobody cares about your quick start test - you've taken the latter part of the bug (£120m for Sagna) and ignored the former (in this set of consequences...)

I think that's a strawman because the ideal game would have the AI accept unrealistic amounts of money.

If the AI doesn't want to show their hand, then they should simply say no and perhaps your assistant will suggest that they are unwilling to show their hand.

There are complaints when the AI asks for ridiculous amounts, and there are complaints when the AI says no - clearly, there is something deeper to this than just the amount being bid, and I think it's the overall negotiation process.

£86m for Richards is a bug, full-stop. If City don't want to negotiate, they would say, "no". If Arsenal offered them silly money, they'd bite. That's what happens in reality - that's what should happen in-game.

Well based on post #9 where this was mentioned ive followed exactly what he posted

It is a bit silly though. I had this the other way - as Man City, Arsenal wouldn't accept even £120m for Sagna

now the chairman will have the same attributes in every game, but give me the exact circumstances and ill replicate them as best i can, i know already the board will accept but im willing to go along with it.

Its definitely not a bug, not at all in a million years, City will only sell for silly money to league rival, much like City paid well over the odds for the 3 Arsenal players they have signed in the last three seasons.

[AcidBurn]

As I said, it's the circumstances that matter. It's possible that the bug simply doesn't appear if you bid at the start, but happens further down the line once you do X, Y and Z.

That's where the bug lies - X, Y and Z lead to £120m return offers.

Nobody cares about your quick start test - you've taken the latter part of the bug (£120m for Sagna) and ignored the former (in this set of consequences...)

I think that's a strawman because the ideal game would have the AI accept unrealistic amounts of money.

If the AI doesn't want to show their hand, then they should simply say no and perhaps your assistant will suggest that they are unwilling to show their hand.

There are complaints when the AI asks for ridiculous amounts, and there are complaints when the AI says no - clearly, there is something deeper to this than just the amount being bid, and I think it's the overall negotiation process.

£86m for Richards is a bug, full-stop. If City don't want to negotiate, they would say, "no". If Arsenal offered them silly money, they'd bite. That's what happens in reality - that's what should happen in-game.

Is there a chance the club valuation of the player could be too high for clubs within the same division? I just started as Real Madrid and was able to sign Micah Richards for £34.5 million which is high but I think it would take a bid like that for Man City to sell him in real life.

[mr. president]

the problem is that if the AI makes a bid on my player and i reject, soon the player will be unhappy and i have to sell him (who wants unhappy player in the squad?). when i make a bid, the player will not become unhappy if it been rejected.

you talk about buying a player from a big team, but if it was a small team, the club should have asked for a reasonable price. in this case, the player wlll become unhappy for sure, and which small team doesn't sell their player for the right reasonable price?

[milnerpoint]

Is there a chance the club valuation of the player could be too high for clubs within the same division? I just started as Real Madrid and was able to sign Micah Richards for £34.5 million which is high but I think it would take a bid like that for Man City to sell him in real life.

But thats like it is now, teams in the EPL pay well over the odds to sign other EPL players, look at Henderson to Liverpool this year, or Carrol to Liverpool. Teams do not want to sell their best players to rivals in the same division unless they get well over the odds for said player.

[The Welsh Lad]

the problem is that if the AI makes a bid on my player and i reject, soon the player will be unhappy and i have to sell him (who wants unhappy player in the squad?). when i make a bid, the player will not become unhappy if it been rejected.

you talk about buying a player from a big team, but if it was a small team, the club should have asked for a reasonable price. in this case, the player wlll become unhappy for sure, and which small team doesn't sell their player for the right reasonable price?

That can happen the other way round, maybe not has often has your own players. Depends on the player loyalty and ambition ratings.

[x42bn6]

Well based on post #9 where this was mentioned ive followed exactly what he posted

now the chairman will have the same attributes in every game, but give me the exact circumstances and ill replicate them as best i can, i know already the board will accept but im willing to go along with it.

Its definitely not a bug, not at all in a million years, City will only sell for silly money to league rival, much like City paid well over the odds for the 3 Arsenal players they have signed in the last three seasons.

It's not a bug because you can't replicate it? You are not the Bug Testing Authority where "If I can't replicate it, it's not a bug" applies.

Some bugs are simply difficult to replicate. It might not be possible at the start of the quick start, but possible further into the game, again depending on circumstances.

Arsenal should have to bid silly money in order to get Richards. This does not logically imply that City have to come back with an £86m offer. If City don't want to sell, they should say "no." Implicitly, this is the same as "show me the money." That is the only sensible response.

Otherwise, you get threads like this. £86m for Richards sounds ridiculous and seems to be an excuse for the AI being unable to communicate "we don't want to sell" to the user. If you want to make clear "we don't want to sell", it should be something like assistant advice, rather than a response that is easily misinterpreted as "we think Richards is worth £86m to us, despite the fact this makes him more expensive than Ronaldo." Which, by the way, would be a bug.

[AcidBurn]

But thats like it is now, teams in the EPL pay well over the odds to sign other EPL players, look at Henderson to Liverpool this year, or Carrol to Liverpool. Teams do not want to sell their best players to rivals in the same division unless they get well over the odds for said player.

Henderson and Carroll cost more because they are young and English and Carroll mainly because it was a rush deal, also Newcastle and Sunderland are not rivals of Liverpool. I view it similar to how you do, if I feel they are asking for too much I move on as I often ask for over £100 million from the AI for my best players.

[milnerpoint]

I view it similar to how you do, if I feel they are asking for too much I move on as I often ask for over £100 million from the AI for my best players.

I guess that's why i argue its not a bug, because that's the way i think and i think its perfectly logical, teams want to sign my best players and they will have to pay well over the odds, everyone is sell-able at the right price to me but sometimes those prices are 20x their on screen value. If the Ai does it back to me i either keep trying or move to another target, but i never see it as being a bug in the AI.

[DietSpam]

I don't think it's a bug. If I see an over inflated price tag i normally say F that and move on. Which I guess is what happens in real life. People here are claiming its unrealistic for teams not to accept £120m for a player. but really, it's unrealistic for a team to bid that amount. We've got to remember, it's a game.

[The Welsh Lad]

I can't see where the argument is you know how the game works and how every game is different from the next.

A team will only say they don't want to sell is if you enquire about the availability of the player. If you don't and just bid, the club will keep rejecting the bid if they don't want to sell regardless of the amount, it is not a bug, if every manager had their way they wouldn't sell. Wenger wouldn't have sold Fabregas or Nasri but the board would have got involved and said he can go for x amount.

Which is most probably what happened in the Richards example given i.e. the manager said no at £10M and at £15M but the board has said you can have him for £86M due to how much they rate him, regardless to who you think he is worth.

In the Sagna case, the manager and the board don't want to sell so they wont accept any amount.

The majority of people just want things to go their way, if it doesn't then it must be a bug.

Also, if you scout the player, depending on your scout, they will tell you if the club would be willing sell and how much you would likely get him for, not what you will get him for.

[x42bn6]

I guess that's why i argue its not a bug, because that's the way i think and i think its perfectly logical, teams want to sign my best players and they will have to pay well over the odds, everyone is sell-able at the right price to me but sometimes those prices are 20x their on screen value. If the Ai does it back to me i either keep trying or move to another target, but i never see it as being a bug in the AI.

The concern is that there is no way to distinguish a straight-faced Manchester City executive putting a genuine offer of £86m on Micah Richards to a flippant City who pull a stupid figure out of thin air sarcastically and email it back.

It is difficult to judge sarcasm in software.

However, I don't think it's logical in this case - City don't want to sell, and of course as a result don't want to show their hand. What we have is a sarcastic, ridiculous offer that seems to rate that player at £86m. The user cannot detect that sarcasm so believes the player is worth that.

In negotiations, you only show your hand once you think you can seal a good deal. For example, if City view Richards as a £30m player, they are unlikely to show their hand until Arsenal bid around £25m. Consequently, once you show your hand, it cannot be miles out of the bid - £86m and £15m are miles apart.

I believe it is a bad idea to put sarcasm into the game as it can always be misinterpreted. In addition it is better business sense to not show your hand than show a stupid figure especially since this will confuse the user. Which is why I see it as a bug - negotiations are confusing and offers are insane, not following two parties who are negotiating in real-life.

[milnerpoint]

There is a simple way, you make another offer and see what they come back with, if you dont want to you you move on and take it as they wanted too much for the player. There is no sarcasm built into the negotiations. Im not sarcastic when i ask for over the odds, i dont want to sell my players, but if someone wants them bad enough and are willing to meet my crazy demands they can have them. Nothing sarcastic about it, i just want the earth for my players or nothing else. I show my hand first time every time, a club enquires i ask for £40m for a player the game rates as £7-8m, if that doesnt interest the AI they move on, sometimes they come back, but at least they know from the 1st point of contact what negotiating with me is going to be like.

Negotiations are not confusing at all, they are very simple in FM, you make a bid, it is either rejected accepted or negotiated, i would image in real life it is far more complicated than FM makes it.

[x42bn6]

There is a simple way, you make another offer and see what they come back with, if you dont want to you you move on and take it as they wanted too much for the player. There is no sarcasm built into the negotiations. Im not sarcastic when i ask for over the odds, i dont want to sell my players, but if someone wants them bad enough and are willing to meet my crazy demands they can have them. Nothing sarcastic about it, i just want the earth for my players or nothing else. I show my hand first time every time, a club enquires i ask for £40m for a player the game rates as £7-8m, if that doesnt interest the AI they move on, sometimes they come back, but at least they know from the 1st point of contact what negotiating with me is going to be like.

Negotiations are not confusing at all, they are very simple in FM, you make a bid, it is either rejected accepted or negotiated, i would image in real life it is far more complicated than FM makes it.

£40m for a £7-8m player is being sarcastic. He's clearly not worth that much and you'd sell him for less if someone is stupid enough to bid close to it.

If a player is "priceless" to you, then the sensible answer is "I'm not selling." You don't put a stupid price tag on the player as it might start negotiations. In addition, putting a stupid price tag on weakens your position as you have shown your hand - your hand is stronger if you say nothing at all.

[milnerpoint]

No its not sarcastic, its me playing very hard ball. I wouldnt take much less, maybe 1-2m but not less, not unless i decided the player was longer useful to me, then yes i would accept less.

No player is priceless, everyone has their price, some are just well above what anyone would pay. If a team is willing to go along with my prices then they can have my player, there is always another player you can sign.

[x42bn6]

No its not sarcastic, its me playing very hard ball. I wouldnt take much less, maybe 1-2m but not less, not unless i decided the player was longer useful to me, then yes i would accept less.

No player is priceless, everyone has their price, some are just well above what anyone would pay. If a team is willing to go along with my prices then they can have my player, there is always another player you can sign.

Do you want to sell that £7-8m player?

[milnerpoint]

Do you want to sell that £7-8m player?

It all depends on the player in question amongst other things, but if the player was a first teamer worth £7-8m and the AI offered me £40m i would sell, and replace with someone for less than half that amount. If the player was not in the first team and not getting a game i would have never asked for £40m.

If i was the City manager during the transfer in question i would have turned down anything lower than £60m but i would have asked for at least £80m to begin with, i wouldnt want to sell him, but if push came to shove and money like that was going about i would have taken it.

[x42bn6]

It all depends on the player in question amongst other things, but if the player was a first teamer worth £7-8m and the AI offered me £40m i would sell, and replace with someone for less than half that amount. If the player was not in the first team and not getting a game i would have never asked for £40m.

The reason is that City wouldn't want to sell Richards, so your situation isn't comparable if you don't mind selling.

If you had a £7-8m player you didn't want to sell, would you put a (stupidly obscene perhaps) price on his forehead?

[milnerpoint]

The reason is that City wouldn't want to sell Richards, so your situation isn't comparable if you don't mind selling.

If you had a £7-8m player you didn't want to sell, would you put a (stupidly obscene perhaps) price on his forehead?

Like i say every player has a price, even if i dont really want to lose him, i turned down a £60m offer for my top star after asking for £75m for him, i dont really want to sell him, but if i get offered £75m i would take it and take up the challenge to replace him.

[x42bn6]

Like i say every player has a price, even if i dont really want to lose him, i turned down a £60m offer for my top star after asking for £75m for him, i dont really want to sell him, but if i get offered £75m i would take it and take up the challenge to replace him.

Every player has a price, but can you really put a figure down on that £7-8m player on what he is really worth?

Or is the £40m just designed to scare them away?

[milnerpoint]

In a way i guess yes, i dont really want to sell, but i have a price, much like City are saying here, the £40m or £86m or whatever may be designed to scare away the bidding team, but if they then come back with something like that figure then my mind can be changed and a deal can be done.

[AcidBurn]

In a way i guess yes, i dont really want to sell, but i have a price, much like City are saying here, the £40m or £86m or whatever may be designed to scare away the bidding team, but if they then come back with something like that figure then my mind can be changed and a deal can be done.

I agree with this. On FM11 I didn't really want to sell my top striker so when Barcelona offered £80 million I said I wanted £120 million they came back with £100 million so I sold him. Same with my best CM I didn't really want to get rid of him he was worth £15.75 million Valencia offered £22.5 million I told them I wanted £60 million and he went for £42.5 million. Same with Neymar AC Milan bid £28 million so told them £60 million would be enough in the end he went for £41 million. I would prefer to keep these players like Man City would prefer to keep Richards but every player has their price. I do think it is strange Man United wanting so much for Rafael and Arsenal wanting so much for Sagna though.

People are bidding for Richards and when the AI comes back and says they want £86 million people are not negotiating if you just go back to your last bid and up it by £5 million each time the AI would usually meet you half way.

[milnerpoint]

Exactly in reality City will sell him for less, if you negotiate with them, its prob not going to be quick if your that far apart to begin with but in the end you will find a middle ground City will accept.