Is the Tranfer system abit of Joke in FM 2010?

[dafuge]

Ffs guys. we're not discussing if people should go trough with deals when they're being ripped off or not!!! that is not the point at all.

That argument is so illogical, it's like saying " you don't like that the car is broke? well don't drive it".

It's a bit more like saying 'if the car is overpriced, don't buy it'

Clubs need the ability to refuse to sell their players if they want to. Obviously if a bid comes in that is completely over the top then they have no choice but to sell, but it is up to you to make that bid, and there's not much chance of it being realistic.

[dafuge]

That said though I do feel that having such a high hidden "sale value" for happy players like the examples in post #91 is an issue and one that needs to be addressed.

The point I am making (which I appreciate is not a popular one) is that we shouldn't be finding out these values, we should be pulling out of the deal way before that.

[Badass_]

It's a bit more like saying 'if the car is overpriced, don't buy it'

.

You know it isn't but whatever...

[dafuge]

You know it isn't but whatever...

There was a wink with that. The bit you deleted was probably a bit more relevant.

[SCIAG]

You know it isn't but whatever...

It's far more like that than your example. Your example is more like "I bought a rubbish player last week!"

I think the values should be lower, but not much lower. The AI may not want to sell, but couldn't they ask for something vaguely reasonable? I don't think there are more than about 10 players in the world who would have a bid of £50m for them rejected.

[Brend]

The point I am making (which I appreciate is not a popular one) is that we shouldn't be finding out these values, we should be pulling out of the deal way before that.

The values are known. There is easy access to a number of tools which will reveal those values.

The snapshots I listed were a small sampling. The problem becomes endemic when you look at players who are not "untouchables"-- the Maicons, Mascheranos, and de Jongs of the world. They're not global superstars, like the Messis and Ronaldos of the world, but they still have fairly unbelievable sale values (de Jong, for instance, is near 78 million, Maicon is 54 million, Mascherano is 50 million).

The sale values are kind of odd, in a sense: they're actually a reasonable reflection of the sale values of young, talented, untested players, while also being a fairly good estimate of most players who are over the age of 32, and are in the downward part of their careers. It's just those players in the middle that it has some difficulty with.

The thing to note with the snapshots: the first year usually tends to have a lot of high values, and they seem to normalize a little more as time goes on. However, the first year is when most casual players want to do a lot of team building, so it's a vitally important year.

[dafuge]

I don't think there are more than about 10 players in the world who would have a bid of £50m for them rejected.

But on the other hand, how many players are there in the world for which any club would bid £50m?

[Cougar2010]

The point I am making (which I appreciate is not a popular one) is that we shouldn't be finding out these values, we should be pulling out of the deal way before that.

I fully agree with you there dafuge but we have two issues in this thread.

Issue 1

People targeting happy players at big clubs on long contracts without making an effort to unsettle them. If your club is of lower reputation and the player is a first teamer you shouldn't expect them to move. Unhappy players will move at realistic prices.

Issue 2

This is what Brend has opened my eyes to, a hidden acceptable sale value. Even for a player like Cech an acceptable value should not be £120m even if he is happy.

Taking an example I signed a 19yo Spanish DR who was a wonderkid for £15m. Three years later I have a set asking price of £100m for him with Chelsea sniffing around. The media are speculating at a bid of around £50m but my acceptable sale value for him would be around £30m.

If I was Chelsea and the AI controlled my team I wouldn't have a problem being quoted £100m if I enquired but I would expect a bid of somewhere between £30m & £50m to be accepted. Brend's post leads me to believe it wouldn't be (as long as the player was happy) and that the AI would set an acceptable sale value of over £100m.

[Cougar2010]

The values are known. There is easy access to a number of tools which will reveal those values.

The point is you can't view these values without a third party application.

These values, like CA & PA are not viewable in the game if you play it in the way it was intended.

[dafuge]

The snapshots I listed were a small sampling. The problem becomes endemic when you look at players who are not "untouchables"-- the Maicons, Mascheranos, and de Jongs of the world. They're not global superstars, like the Messis and Ronaldos of the world, but they still have fairly unbelievable sale values (de Jong, for instance, is near 78 million, Maicon is 54 million, Mascherano is 50 million).

Those values are silly, but my point is that no one in their right mind should be bidding anywhere near that for those players. Without the third party software and by taking a sensible approach to the transfers, these players will just appear to be the sorts of players that you leave alone because the club doesn't want to sell.

[Cometdude]

In real life managers don't even sign players, they simply submit a shortlist to their chairman/chief exec, they have nothing to do with negotiating a price etc.

I personally think that the transfer system is okay in FM10 but I would rather just see a complete refusal by the selling team to negotiate than see them request such high fees.

[Brend]

Those values are silly, but my point is that no one in their right mind should be bidding anywhere near that for those players. Without the third party software and by taking a sensible approach to the transfers, these players will just appear to be the sorts of players that you leave alone because the club doesn't want to sell.

It's certainly true that the values are silly for those particular players. However, very few people are as sensible as you when it comes to transfers. The average person who comes in here to complain about absurd transfers is precisely that-- the average person. For better or for worse, that's a rather large segment of the consumer population. The average football fan knows and wants Messi, and isn't overly interested in buying Jano Ananidze as an alternative. Those of us who tend to scour the earth for undervalued players are a more rare breed.

Discounting the use of third-party software doesn't change anything. Like Pandora's box and the Wizard of Oz, there's no going back to a more innocent time.

[Fanatical Ollie]

Those values are silly, but my point is that no one in their right mind should be bidding anywhere near that for those players. Without the third party software and by taking a sensible approach to the transfers, these players will just appear to be the sorts of players that you leave alone because the club doesn't want to sell.

I know where you're coming from, and I agree. To me the valuations are extremely stupid, but you're right. Pull out of the deal, and look for another player!

[Badass_]

It's far more like that than your example. Your example is more like "I bought a rubbish player last week!"

.

care to explain how that random sentence relates to my example ?

[dafuge]

It's certainly true that the values are silly for those particular players. However, very few people are as sensible as you when it comes to transfers. The average person who comes in here to complain about absurd transfers is precisely that-- the average person. For better or for worse, that's a rather large segment of the consumer population. The average football fan knows and wants Messi, and isn't overly interested in buying Jano Ananidze as an alternative. Those of us who tend to scour the earth for undervalued players are a more rare breed.

That's a very fair comment. I appreciate that my mindset in the way I approach the game is probably far from the norm, and probably biased by the fact that my game doesn't feature any real players at this moment in time.

[philly_flyer10]

Brend has taken a snapshot of a few "sale values" there but what people like yourself are failing to grasp is that those values alter constantly depending on a number of factors.

Taking Cech at £120m it would be difficult with Chelsea being a top club but if you were Real or Barcelona and interacted with the player that "sale value" would drop.

Missing out on trophies, not qualifying for Europe, getting closer to the end of his contract, falling out with the manager, having you as favoured personnel would all see a significant drop in that value to a one much nearer the visible one in game.

That said though I do feel that having such a high hidden "sale value" for happy players like the examples in post #91 is an issue and one that needs to be addressed.

Interaction has no effect on the sale price, neither does making the player unhappy, neither does negotiation. Only them transfer listing the player drops the price.

[Cougar2010]

Interaction has no effect on the sale price, neither does making the player unhappy, neither does negotiation. Only them transfer listing the player drops the price.

Any evidence to prove this? as I very much doubt its the case.

How do you explain me signing a 19yo wonderkid for £15m? surely his hidden acceptable sale value would have been much higher before I unsettled him (He wasn't transfer listed btw).

[dafuge]

How do you explain me signing a 19yo wonderkid for £15m? surely his hidden acceptable sale value would have been much higher before I unsettled him (He wasn't transfer listed btw).

Was he from a smaller club?

I managed to sign a Brazilian wonderkid from Red Star for just £6.5m, a year later he was worth more than £30m.

[AcidBurn]

Interaction has no effect on the sale price, neither does making the player unhappy, neither does negotiation. Only them transfer listing the player drops the price.

Not trying to argue with you or anything but I bid up to £22 million for Kyle Walker from Spurs and it was rejected I declared an interest in him and left it a couple of weeks during that time Juventus also declared that they wanted to sign him. I got him for £10 million within 2 weeks thanks to myself and Juventus unsettling him, so surely the sale values do change as he was never transfer listed.

[Brend]

Generally speaking, most U19s are priced reasonably, based on their talent. £15m seems to be pretty much right in line with what I'd expect-- both in the game, and in real life. Some are priced less reasonably (both Aaron Ramsey and Federico Macheda have sale values upwards of £50m), but that likely reflects that they're quite hyped, and at major clubs. Your Spanish wonderkid fits where I'd expect him-- less than a player like Diego Renan, more than Fabiano Santacroce (both of whom are highly touted players who can play as right fullbacks).

[philly_flyer10]

Not trying to argue with you or anything but I bid up to £22 million for Kyle Walker from Spurs and it was rejected I declared an interest in him and left it a couple of weeks during that time Juventus also declared that they wanted to sign him. I got him for £10 million within 2 weeks thanks to myself and Juventus unsettling him, so surely the sale values do change as he was never transfer listed.

They change for sure but theres nothing the user can do, Ive checked both before when a player was unhappy and when I unsettled a player and he wanted to leave. it was the same price.

[Martyr1777]

Ffs guys. we're not discussing if people should go trough with deals when they're being ripped off or not!!! that is not the point at all.

That argument is so illogical, it's like saying " you don't like that the car is broke? well don't drive it then".

Plus, I don't think anyone is trying to "attack" fm, it's just an area of the game that needs improvement, that's it. Acknowledging this doesn't mean you don't like the game or that fm is less of a game...

On that note, anyone who says that the transfer system is realistic is out of their minds...

You are missing the entire point man... you are saying you are getting ripped off by unrealistic prices. But -YOU- pay those same prices in some instances. Therefore since -YOU- payed it then -YOU- can't really see it as that terribly unrealistic.

There are some issues with FM AI, but the bigger issue is with the ME AI, there are only a few small issues with management AI and I personally don't see this as being one of them.

Things go along fine as they are, perhaps it's a bit outlandish but the intent is right and understandable. SI needs to spend their time fixing the ME AI before they should even consider refining the transfer numbers. Bottom line.

[AcidBurn]

So would people prefer their bids to be rejected outright rather than negotiated to a huge fee?

[dafuge]

So would people prefer their bids to be rejected outright rather than negotiated to a huge fee?

I don't think FM can win. Either way there will be people complaining that it is unrealistic.

[Cougar2010]

Was he from a smaller club?

I managed to sign a Brazilian wonderkid from Red Star for just £6.5m, a year later he was worth more than £30m.

Well I'm Roma who had been up and down between top of table and mid-table in the prior few seasons. He came from Racing Club (mid-table Spanish team) so I would presume Roma had the better reputation but not by miles.

Generally speaking, most U19s are priced reasonably, based on their talent. £15m seems to be pretty much right in line with what I'd expect-- both in the game, and in real life. Some are priced less reasonably (both Aaron Ramsey and Federico Macheda have sale values upwards of £50m), but that likely reflects that they're quite hyped, and at major clubs. Your Spanish wonderkid fits where I'd expect him-- less than a player like Diego Renan, more than Fabiano Santacroce (both of whom are highly touted players who can play as right fullbacks).

When I signed the wonderkid I was also looking at Renan who was at Ajax. Ajax dismissed my enquiry and I estimated it would take at least £25m to get him so went with the Spanish player. A season later he moved to Palermo for £10.75m.

Probably not relevant to the discussion but I signed a 24yo Macheda as well. It was 2016 and he was a rotation player at Man Utd - cost £6.5m.

[Cougar2010]

So would people prefer their bids to be rejected outright rather than negotiated to a huge fee?

Personally I would say yes but realistically it won't make any difference as the same people would complain as has been proven in the past.

[Martyr1777]

I don't think FM can win. Either way there will be people complaining that it is unrealistic.

The problem with too many gamers these days. To many games have been made to easy now players expect to have things handed to them instead of having to work for it.

[AcidBurn]

I don't think FM can win. Either way there will be people complaining that it is unrealistic.

I suppose if offers were rejected people would complain that they could never buy the player.

Arsenal just tried to buy my best CB rated as being worth £9 million so I told them I wanted £200 million to scare them off and hopefully make them disinterested in him. I guess the AI is trying a similar thing but people are remaining interested and paying over the odds.

[Brend]

When I signed the wonderkid I was also looking at Renan who was at Ajax. Ajax dismissed my enquiry and I estimated it would take at least £25m to get him so went with the Spanish player. A season later he moved to Palermo for £10.75m.

Probably not relevant to the discussion but I signed a 24yo Macheda as well. It was 2016 and he was a rotation player at Man Utd - cost £6.5m.

Those events have happened far after the snapshot I have at the moment. If you were to try and acquire Macheda in September 2009, you'd have to bid £52 million to get the AI to sell him. Part of that is his immense promise; part is the fact he's under contract for another 4 1/2 years.

[AcidBurn]

I signed Macheda in the first season on loan with a £15 million future fee, I guess these prices are different in every game.

[ashbag]

It's far more like that than your example. Your example is more like "I bought a rubbish player last week!"

I think the values should be lower, but not much lower. The AI may not want to sell, but couldn't they ask for something vaguely reasonable? I don't think there are more than about 10 players in the world who would have a bid of £50m for them rejected.

I agree with this. I completely understand the point of "He's a key player and they will want a lot of money as they don't want to sell him do they ask for extortionate amounts" but a lot of people are forgetting, £30 - £40 million is an extortionate amount for players who aren't the best in the world or aren't at the top 4 or 5 clubs. And for players valued around 10 mil or less the usually amount should be around 24 or 25 million, at an extreme push 30 million. Only the players who are indispensable, at one of the top clubs in the world, still have a lot of prime years, room for improvement left AND are in the top 2 for their position should be above 40 million.

David Villa, a key player to Valencia, one of the best strikers in the world, sold for 40 million. Now tell me why it is realistic for them to reject a £50 million bid and when I submit a negotiable offer they want 72 million?

And if you would enlighten me as to why Real want more for Marcelo and Ramos than they do for Ronaldo I would be delighted. And why Atletico want 33 times Asenjo's value.

[Badass_]

You are missing the entire point man... you are saying you are getting ripped off by unrealistic prices. But -YOU- pay those same prices in some instances. Therefore since -YOU- payed it then -YOU- can't really see it as that terribly unrealistic.

There are some issues with FM AI, but the bigger issue is with the ME AI, there are only a few small issues with management AI and I personally don't see this as being one of them.

Things go along fine as they are, perhaps it's a bit outlandish but the intent is right and understandable. SI needs to spend their time fixing the ME AI before they should even consider refining the transfer numbers. Bottom line.

Same argument over and over again.

Let me get this straight, because I have tons of money (usually between 80 mil and 150 mil transfer budget) and I don't care if I have to splash 80 mil on a player who's worth 1/10 of that because I know he's gonna be a great player... somehow that makes it okay that clubs are asking 8 or 9 times the value of a certain player?

[philly_flyer10]

So would people prefer their bids to be rejected outright rather than negotiated to a huge fee?

No, Id prefer a realistic fee, ie Gallas wouldnt go for 50m but less than 10m.

[philly_flyer10]

You are missing the entire point man... you are saying you are getting ripped off by unrealistic prices. But -YOU- pay those same prices in some instances. Therefore since -YOU- payed it then -YOU- can't really see it as that terribly unrealistic.

There are some issues with FM AI, but the bigger issue is with the ME AI, there are only a few small issues with management AI and I personally don't see this as being one of them.

Things go along fine as they are, perhaps it's a bit outlandish but the intent is right and understandable. SI needs to spend their time fixing the ME AI before they should even consider refining the transfer numbers. Bottom line.

No, youre missing the point, FM is a game and is supposed to reflect real life football, its simply not doing that with the asking prices. Theres a handful of real life players silly fees would apply to, Kaka, Rooney, Messi etc.

In FM clubs reject good offers like 40m for Gallas or Milner which is nowhere near what happens.

The system is broke, end of. No matter how people laughably try to spin it to make it the players fault.

[Martyr1777]

No, youre missing the point, FM is a game and is supposed to reflect real life football, its simply not doing that with the asking prices. Theres a handful of real life players silly fees would apply to, Kaka, Rooney, Messi etc.

In FM clubs reject good offers like 40m for Gallas or Milner which is nowhere near what happens.

The system is broke, end of. No matter how people laughably try to spin it to make it the players fault.

Look man... who cares about how strictly the game follows real life... as you said, it's a game. If you want reality then just watch the matches on TV.

I don't start with playing big teams so I never chase Messi, Rooney or the like, and I likely wouldn't chase them even if I did play a top team. There is a reason top teams don't collect all these guys. So Messi, Kaka, whoever... they can kiss my $#&.

But I'm not surprised the AI puts high prices on these guys, most likely if it was coded slightly different the AI would just say 'get lost, we aren't giving him up' The AI has no reason to transfer them.

Playing my MLS team I wanted to trade for 16 y/o striker with mass potential. I wanted him enough I had to give them 2 players and a 1st and 2nd round draft. But I was more then happy to give up players I didn't want on the team anyway and my team has enough young talent I don't need the draft picks. It's called risk vs. reward, if this guy doesn't work for me oh well I didn't lose anything I needed even though the cost was high. But the cost was so high because the team needed a good talented young striker.

Just like Badass saying 30M for a wonderkid keeper was stupid and unrealistic... oh but wait, he paid the 30m for the player so it obviously wasn't all that insane after all now was it.

Just quit your whining because if SI changes it they will just make it so unless its what you guys would consider is a 'fair' offer they'd just say no to all offers. Then you guys would probably be throwing the insane numbers that are being complained about here to try and get him and whine that 'I offered 20 billion for numbnuts and the club won't take him, so unrealistic!'

Again, even if you want to consider this an issue worth changing then there are still far more important things for SI to give their attention to. So deal with it.

[philly_flyer10]

So you have no experience of what happens you seem so set arguing against it, that makes sense.

Again, youve totally missed the point, we arent saying the Messi prices are unrealistic, we are saying we shouldnt be quoted Messi prices for decent top league players.

[Martyr1777]

So you have no experience of what happens you seem so set arguing against it, that makes sense.

Again, youve totally missed the point, we arent saying the Messi prices are unrealistic, we are saying we shouldnt be quoted Messi prices for decent top league players.

You people are so locked up in 'ZOMG I get to play big name players and manage the top world clubs!'. I just told you I had to pass out the $%@ for an unproven young prospect. Just because it wasn't Messi doesn't mean I have no experience with the 'transfer issue'. Because this issue you guys are seeing isn't limited to the world stars.

And since you are so damn dense I'll keep it simple, again.... it's not unrealistic what the AI is doing, because human players, including myself, would do it too.

You want Messi, Kaka, Rooney, etc from my team? I'll make you pay just as much for them, because if you don't take it I keep a star, if you do take the deal I'm totally rich. Again, quit whining about it because there is no issue and even if SI think there is it's minor compared to so many other things it's not even funny.

Edit: Just for clarity this falls to every good player... I'm still going to charge and arm and leg for my MLS's star striker, because if I give him up I risk losing success with the team, so I don't wanna lose him, but if someone pays me enough for him, ie far more then his listed price, then I'll take it and replace him. the top names just get tossed around most because if I said Ze Carlos you wouldn't have a clue who or what I'm talking about.

[philly_flyer10]

Seems like someones got a bit of an inferiority complex. Thanks for calling QPR a top world cup, now that proves beyond all doubt you dont have a club what youre talking about.

[Martyr1777]

Seems like someones got a bit of an inferiority complex. Thanks for calling QPR a top world cup, now that proves beyond all doubt you dont have a club what youre talking about.

I know who QPR is, I started a save as them once. But I fail to see where QPR was mentioned... and since you completely ignored the actual comments toward the issue it's apparent you can't make your point.

[philly_flyer10]

I play as QPR, they are my team. You replied to me "You people are so locked up in 'ZOMG I get to play big name players and manage the top world clubs".

SO now either you were saying QPR are a top world club or you are wrong yet again.

This thread is a total fail of people trying to defend things wrong with the game, thank god none of you work for SI because if you did, nothing would ever get fixed.

[aragorn49]

Im in the camp that thinks the transfer values and negotiation is completly broke.

However befroe they can truely fix transfers they have to fix they AI squad management.

IM staring at the Man Utd squad list. 35 players! WTF! and thats only in thier first team. 3 of them are injured. they have a further 8 seperate players (not from first team) in reserve squad, and then a full quota of youth. Half of these players are quality, and get absolutely no game time. Just sit there violating the wage bill. But could we come in and by one of these non-used players valued at about 10m for anything less then 30m... Not a chance!

WTF would any team want that many players for (and dont send the man city example my way... they need to cull... badly.)

Besides, most teams in my game are that way. Chelski has 30 players. Barce the same (again both have 5-10 players in res/c team - leaving the club a total of 40-50 senior players. WTF? And maybe, just maybe that could be forgiven if they had youth coming through to replace the ageing legs. But they dont. A majority of these players are 26+ even more in the 30+ age group. with very few youth coming through.\

Just checked out real madrid. 42players in their first team. SHEESH!

Why does the AI sit on such massive squads.

Where as I, and most normal people (even heard Carlo Ance speak of this) like to sit with a squad of what, 22-23 players, plus 3 GK's... Rediculous.

But untill the AI understands how to use players, what they will get out of them etc then there is no point trying to fix thier values...

[Cougar2010]

I don't know if its down to leagues selected or size of database but I don't get that at all.

Currently:

Man Utd - 27 in first team inc 3*U21s + 4 in reserves (one old player + three ex youth team listed for loan).

Chelsea - 25 in first team + 8 in reserves (three old + five ex youth team listed for sale or loan).

Man City - 26 in first team inc two U21s + 14 in reserves (four old + 10 ex youth team listed for sale or loan).

Real Madrid - 26 in first team inc one U21 + 8 in "C" team (All ex youth team).

Barcelona - 26 in first team inc two U21s, no "C" team.

[dafuge]

What is the solution then?

Would people prefer it if clubs just came back with 'he's not for sale' and refused to sell until you bid something silly like these hidden asking prices, or would people prefer it if every player in the game could be transferred for a reasonable amount and no one could be 'not for sale'?

[private pyle]

What is the solution then?

Would people prefer it if clubs just came back with 'he's not for sale' and refused to sell until you bid something silly like these hidden asking prices, or would people prefer it if every player in the game could be transferred for a reasonable amount and no one could be 'not for sale'?

I would prefer it if clubs that do not wish to sell there players come back with something like "player x is not for sale at any price"

[bigdanio]

ridiculous.

when does the AI ever offer a high amount, let alone a decent amount.

I am expected to sell my best players for £20m and then spend £60m on a replacement.

[HarryMills]

if they want to be realistic, players should demand to move and for the most part get it imo. But at the moment, the prices demanded are so extreme as to ruin things. In the past i've added myself as other teams managers just to push things through at a half way reasonable price. So either way, being refused when offering astronomical fees or artificially intervening, it ruins the game for me.

Football's a business, everyone has a price, they're just set ludicrously high in FM imo, irl I would think there can't be more than a dozen players (at the max) who would cost you more than 30 million.

[ANDEHLSON]

What is the solution then?

Would people prefer it if clubs just came back with 'he's not for sale' and refused to sell until you bid something silly like these hidden asking prices, or would people prefer it if every player in the game could be transferred for a reasonable amount and no one could be 'not for sale'?

3 things:

1- Like someone said before, probably only a dozen players would have 50m bids turned down. (dunno it it was SCIAG)

2- (something I've said 50 times) The transfer system is too robotic. If you miss the hidden value, even if by 100k, the club will suddenly ask you for 20m more. So if it is 19.7 and you bid 19.6, the club might ask you next for 30m. But if you bid 19.7 they'll accept. It's a bit ridiculous and ends up raising the transfer prices even more.

3- I'd love if SI would get someone that lived outside the English (big spending) reality, in their testing team. The transfer prices are too high in some cases and ridiculously low in others. Balancing a mistake with another isn't really the best thing to do. For example in 10.0 and 10.1 the Portuguese league had the prices completely messed up. They were somewhat fixed in 10.2, but there are still some issues regarding their youngsters for example. Their youngsters with let's say, 140-180 PA are sold for 70-100k, and even Coentrao (who has a good CA and high PA) is sold constantly for 3.5m.

Oh and the AI definitely needs some improvement... In my game Porto has 10 keepers, and this without counting the ones in their U-19s squad.. :c

[Cougar2010]

if they want to be realistic, players should demand to move and for the most part get it imo.

They already do, I've had around 5-10 players wanting a move over the past 3-4 seasons, I sold all but two of them who settled down once we achieved European football again.

Football's a business, everyone has a price, they're just set ludicrously high in FM imo, irl I would think there can't be more than a dozen players (at the max) who would cost you more than 30 million.

True and on one hand you can say thats maybe the reason we don't see many big money moves in FM between AI clubs (as they refuse to pay the high prices that some human users do) but on the other how many do we see in RL when a player is happy at a club.

[HarryMills]

it's a bit of a tangent, but does anyone else think it's a bit crap how your fans can ''bombard'' call ins etc to say they dont want a player from a rival club, and then if you sign them (even the same day) they celebrate and buy lots of shirts?

It can be extra sweet to sign a great player from your rivals, I don't think any/many Milan fans were against signing former Inter hero Ibrahimovic, or Pirlo, Seedorf, Ronaldo etc.

Also, does anyone else think, strangely given the huge fees demanded by the AI, that it's very easy to sign players quite cheaply who are co-owned between two clubs?

Plus, please make it easier to do player swap deals, in general make the putting together of more complex deals involving multiple players easier.

And lastly, please allow us to bid for more than one player at a time in a single transfer bid. At the moment you can offer multiple players to a team but you can't bid for multiple players. i.e I want to bid for 2 players in one bid whilst offering cash plus three of mine type deals etc. Maybe these deals aren't so common in England, but they do happen elsewhere at least.

[HarryMills]

Cougar:, but having a player with a little unh icon which eventually disappears is not the same as employing all the techniques to extricate himself from the club. I've never had one refuse to play unless I let him leave for example.