Is the Tranfer system abit of Joke in FM 2010?

[dafuge]

Why not just say so, then?

<snip>

More descriptive information would be great, at the very least it would explain why these sill asking prices are being given, which based on the responses on the forum is something we could do with.

Saying that though, we don't always go into transfers completely blind as to what the other club's intentions will be. A scout report will give you a rough idea about the fee needed to get that player, and whether the selling club is likely to attempt to keep hold to him and ask for silly money. Again though, this is the sort of thing that we pick up with experience, I can see how some people will just assume that 'unlikely to want to sell the player' should equal £30m, since that's 'realistic'.

[Brian Shanahan]

I understand your point and agree that wouldn't happen in the real world but the reason it wouldn't is because your approach to transfers is different to a manger in RL. I also believe from reading your posts that you are failing to understand and communicate effectively with the AI when it comes to transfers.

I'll deal with the Balotelli comment now so I don't forget. His price was £24m + £5m in clauses if you believe the media but if Balotelli hadn't expressed a desire to leave/join Man City would the transfer had happened at all?

Anyway back to your transfer, I'll apologise in advance if my comments come across a bit blunt but I want them to be clear.

A) Once you found the player you should recognise that he is already at a top European club with a high rep so signing him is far from guaranteed. The level of football you are offering and the wages you can pay will be very similar to what he already has at AC Milan. You also have to consider his personality, in particular his loyalty & ambition. The higher his ambition and lower his loyalty the more likely he is to be interested in a move - remember he has only been there one year.

B) This is where your scouts come in, did they say he was available? if so at what price? If the scouts are saying not available this is the point you need to either look at other players or make more effort to sign him so he has a reason to move. Try to unsettle him, talk to the media, praise the player.

C) The area I suspect you have the most trouble with - Money doesn't talk in the game the same way it does in RL. The AI isn't human and can only follow the instructions set out in the code. It doesn't see £ signs and can't be tempted like a manager/board can in RL by waving money at them. You need to tempt the AI in other ways so that the price drops.

D) When the AI quotes £83m it doesn't expect you paying it, it expects you to go away. The reason it quotes a figure is because people like yourself have complained in the past that the AI shouldn't say "Not for sale at any price".

E) Before you sign any player you should be able to give a reason why the transfer should happen and money shouldn't be an answer. eg Higher level of football (Better league, bigger club, continental football), player is unhappy where he is (lack of football, wants a new challenge, fallen out with manager/teammates, wants to play at a higher level), his contract only has a short time left on it (less than two years). If you can't give any of those reasons then expect to be quoted a high price when you ask.

Perfect summation of my point of view. Also as regards the example used above I'm shooing away Arsenal for a player of similar value (actually the Brazilian 15 yo I mentioned above) by quoting his release clause of £120m at them. They are taking the hint.

[dafuge]

I really fail to understand what you're trying to say with this. :S

Why is the club asking for unrealistic values in the first place?

I'll try and explain using the example in the OP, although I should add that I do not know how good this player is, so I might be a bit out.

I have try sign Nicola`s Otamendi( SEVILLA F.C) as his wages is £70,000 a week and Tranfer values is £15.75m

So I put offer in for £25m

They have reject my offer...

I thought...Fair enough because they want to keep the best players....

I came up with another offer and put £35m

They have Reject my offer!!!

So I thought....**** IT....Let put £50m and see what happen!!!?

They STILL Reject my offer and they say

You better come up with the Offer of sum £92M

I thought....PFFFTTTT.......What a Joke.....

The first offer is big, but not unrealistic. Club reject as they do not want to sell.

The second offer is massive, but since he says he is looking for the best defenders in the game, still not that unrealistic. Club rejects, they really don't want to sell.

Third offer goes in, I'm assuming he had no intention of actually paying this based on what he says. Club thinks 'these guys are crazy. Tell you what, £92m and he's yours, if you are stupid enough to pay it fair enough, otherwise jog on'.

Now think about how that conversation could have gone had he thought like a real football manager.

Before anything starts, he decides the maximum he will pay for the player is £35m, which I suppose could be a realistic amount.

First offer of £25m goes in, rejected.

Second offer of £35m goes in, rejected.

He then decides to either give up or look to unsettle him and try to sign him at a later date. No silly asking prices would have been mentioned.

[Brian Shanahan]

I really fail to understand what you're trying to say with this. :S

Why is the club asking for unrealistic values in the first place? I'm not talking about buying Agueros, Messis and such.. Also I'm talking about the first 2-3 seasons.. Before the regens start appearing (lots of them)..

Most people here are only used to the Super Rich English reality, probably the same happens with the testers... There are many inconsistencies in the transfer system mostly outside the top 3 leagues in FM especially in 10.0/10.1.. Especially as things like buying only a % of the players sporting rights aren't represented in FM, probably making it harder to buy players in some other countries..

Stuff like Argentinian clubs loaning out their top players to pretty much anyone (whether it's their rivals or some brazilian/european club), some clubs sell their stars for 1-2m yet they ask 4-5m for their worst players, some youngsters in some countries are sold for 50-100k (very good ones), and then you see a crap player from a very small nation being valued in 2.5m...

Well the player in question in this arguement looks to be a wonderkid regen (basically an Aguero of FM09 equivalent) from the information given. Milan are in all probablility a big club still. They paid £18m for the player and hes a regular in the first team (26 league games). So therefore Milan quoting a ridiculuous price is not unrealistic but the player paying that price is.

Middling players at middling clubs go for reasonable prices, unless they're rated as VIPs for that club. I can go out and buy the likes of Kadlec and Milevskiy for less than £5m from the start, not a bad price for either of those two players.

I'm sure the testers have a wide range of experience of the football world as a whole, otherwise SI wouldn't be likely to take them on (SI always get floods of applicants when they advertise tester opportunities here for example). The example of % of rights is fairly spurious as it only operates in S. America where most clubs are so poor that they are dependant on the agents to buy the players. The agents then have the player at the club for a few seasons before selling him on and keeping the profits. Most European and Asian leages frown or ban this practice (e.g. Mascherano and Tevez at West Ham).

Argentinian clubs do loan out to most anyone, most of the even midtable clubs are made up of loans from the bigger clubs, agent clubs, Europe. Or do you not follow Argentinian football, most clubs are effectively bankrupt there. I've also never seen a star player going for 1/5th or 1/2 even of a bad player from the same club, I would like to see some examples. Youngsters in some countries get sold cheaply because they're a good player in a small pond (e.g. a bad club, Brazilian Seria C produces lots of good regens who go cheap, just like in real life; or a bad counrty e.g. the next Messi comes from Fiji, possible but not likely). I've never seen a bad player from a bad nation valued even close to £2.5m (evidence again please), in fact I'm more likely to see a good player from a middling nation being under-valued (e.g Kadlec is usually vlaued at £750k [£2.5m to buy] and Michael Lustig is valued at £950k [£3m to buy].

[ANDEHLSON]

y].

As I'm in kind of a hurry I can't really quote separately and stuff..

I saw players from El Salvador being worth around 2-2.5m.

The % of sporting rights thing is also used in Portugal for example.

These Argentinian loans are nothing like the IRL ones really. They just loan these good players out for next to nothing to just about anyone. :c Really they are just odd. (also you can add some ridiculously low buy clauses sometimes..). And trust me I'm used to certain South American loan deals, having lived in Portugal for a while.. ()

In game the Argentinian clubs just can't negotiate decently.

In Dinamo Zagreb for example you can buy Badelj for 1.2m yet they ask you 3-4m for some of the crap players they have.

In the Portuguese league all the -8/-9 youngsters are sold for 50-100k. In 10.0/10.1 even the top players were sold for 1-3m at most.

But these things are also affected by other factors, like the leagues you have selected as playable or not. These affect the prices and the club's/player's reputation, bankrupt clubs, takeovers, regens, etc...

Wish the other leagues were simulated (not fully but something...)

[Misodoctakleidist]

The problem is that people are basing their valuations on the prices that are paid in real life, but when a player moves in real life it is either because he wants to leave or because his club wants to sell. A happy player who is wanted by his club is going to cost more which is why they never get transfered in real life. The only things that's unrealistic in these cases is the behaviour of the human manager.

[Badass_]

. A happy player who is wanted by his club is going to cost more which is why they never get transfered in real life. .

Wrong. He will cost more but he will not cost 80 million.

After 4 pages of discussion, to me, it all comes down to:

1-No offer above 70 million should ever be refused unless it's one of the best players in the world. (i.e messi, ronaldo)

2-Clubs can ask whatever they want for their players but they will never refuse offers of 50million and above unless:

2.1-They're one of the top clubs in the world or...they're extremely rich

It's as simple as that. That's how it works in real life and that's how it should work in the game.

[Misodoctakleidist]

Badass,

That's not how it works in real life. You're basing your opinion on what happens when unwatned or unhappy players move club.

[dafuge]

After 4 pages of discussion, to me, it all comes down to:

1-No offer above 70 million should ever be refused unless it's one of the best players in the world. (i.e messi, ronaldo)

2-Clubs can ask whatever they want for their players but they will never refuse offers of 50million and above unless:

2.1-They're one of the top clubs in the world or...they're extremely rich

It's as simple as that. That's how it works in real life and that's how it should work in the game.

How many offers of £50m+ have ever been made in real life though?

[Rista]

That's not how it works in real life. You're basing your opinion on what happens when unwatned or unhappy players move club.

So you are saying all players who move clubs are either unhappy or unwanted by their clubs?

[Badass_]

How many offers of £50m+ have ever been made in real life though?

. Pretty much all that there have been were accepted, that is the point.

Not how many there have been.

[Badass_]

So you are saying all players who move clubs are either unhappy or unwanted by their clubs?

He's delusional. Most transfers aren't motivated by those two things.

[dafuge]

exactly. Pretty much all that there have been were accepted.

How many have there been?

I can only name two (Ronaldo and Kaka). Unless there have been some that have been rejected which I don't know about.

[Badass_]

How many have there been?

I can only name two (Ronaldo and Kaka). Unless there have been some that have been rejected which I don't know about.

So what's your point? Since 50 million bids are rare, they shouldn't be accepted in fm?!

I think you are discussing something completely different which is, should we be allowed to have so much money in the game and make astronomic bids. But that's an all different thing.

[Cougar2010]

So you are saying all players who move clubs are either unhappy or unwanted by their clubs?

At the best clubs pretty much, they fall into three main categories.

A) Club want to keep player but player wants to move on.

B) Player not in club plans and surplus to requirements.

C) Club having financial issues and wanting to cash in.

You can also add a fourth category which would cover most top leagues.

D) Player gets head turned and thinks grass is greener.

[Rista]

How many offers of £50m+ have ever been made in real life though?

Not many, granted. Probably because IRL the two clubs will usually agree on a much more reasonable price or the buying club will pull out of negotiations way before the 50m figure because let's face it, very few clubs can afford to spend 20m let alone 50m on a player. Now, it's true this means that in a way it's not very realistic then for human players to be offering that kind of money left and right either but on the other hand, 50m+ transfers have happened in football and if the human manager has the money (perhaps we shouldn't have so much but that's another story) and wants to pay over the odds, it's not necessarily an unrealistic thing to do.

The only problem is that "over the odds" very often means ridiculous money in FM. Berbatov is one of the first players that comes to mind when talking about paying over the odds. His realistic value was 20m at most at the time. Spurs didn't want to sell nor did they need the money but Ferguson wanted him badly so he had to pay over the odds. In FM, you would likely be paying 50m or more in similar circumstances.

[dafuge]

So what's your point? Since 50 million bids are rare, they shouldn't be accepted in fm?!

No, my point is that they should be rarely made in FM. If you choose to regularly make bids like this then you should expect the transfer market to be a bit quirky, and not complain about it.

[Badass_]

No, my point is that they should be rarely made in FM. If you choose to regularly make bids like this then you should expect the transfer market to be a bit quirky, and not complain about it.

First of all, I already told you I don't bid crazy amounts right away. I start with the player's value.

And even if I did, the game isn't smart enough to understand that the market is completely inflated.

[dafuge]

First of all, I already told you I don't bid crazy amounts right away. I start with the player's value.

And even if I did, the game isn't smart enough to understand that the market is completely inflated.

I'm not talking about your initial bid, I'm talking about the fact that you will happily bid far in excess of what you think the player is worth, just because you can. You don't pull out when the deal loses value, whereas a real manager would.

[AcidBurn]

First of all, I already told you I don't bid crazy amounts right away. I start with the player's value.

And even if I did, the game isn't smart enough to understand that the market is completely inflated.

What players have you had huge bids rejected for or negotiated to huge fees for?

Not sure if it was you who mentioned Gallas or not.

[Badass_]

I'm not talking about your initial bid, I'm talking about the fact that you will happily bid far in excess of what you think the player is worth, just because you can. You don't pull out when the deal loses value, whereas a real manager would.

There is no "what I think the player is worth". There is what the game thinks the player is worth (his value) and the value which the game asks me to pay for him.

That's your problem right there.

[Badass_]

What players have you had huge bids rejected for or negotiated to huge fees for?

Not sure if it was you who mentioned Gallas or not.

No one you would know since I'm in 2058 and It wasn't me who mentioned gallas.

[Misodoctakleidist]

At the best clubs pretty much, they fall into three main categories.

A) Club want to keep player but player wants to move on.

B) Player not in club plans and surplus to requirements.

C) Club having financial issues and wanting to cash in.

You can also add a fourth category which would cover most top leagues.

D) Player gets head turned and thinks grass is greener.

Exactly.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single transfer in which the player didn't want to move and his club didn't want to sell him.

[dafuge]

There is no "what I think the player is worth". There is what the game thinks the player is worth (his value) and the value which the game asks me to pay for him.

That's your problem right there.

Ignore the player values then, just compare them to transfer bids that have happened in real life. Are the bids you are making (that are getting the silly asking prices) comparable to similar transfer bids made in real life?

Do you really not put a value on a player yourself? Do you really just pay whatever is needed without thinking about it?

[Quavis]

The transfer market in FM is inflated... and rightly so IMO. There are far too many man cities in game that have way too much money and hyper inflate the value of everyone in the game (The player is almost always one of them).

As many others have mentioned, if a player is "Not for Sale" at any club, you had better be willing to either pay an exorbitant fee, or find someone else. If you are willing to pay said fee (or even offer it and have it rejected), it sends the message loud and clear to the rest of the world, "Club XYZ have way too much money and want to spend it". If you then move on to the next best player, I'd realistically expect the AI to want almost as much. If club XYZ was willing to pay 80m for player A, and my player is almost as good as him, then I want 75m for my guy from that club.

Furthermore, If you don't listen when I say a player is not for sale, my price is going to go up every time you ask. Do you remember how annoying it was/is when the CPU bombards you with sup par offers on your players? There were many times where I flat out decided I'd never sell a particular player to that club, and was quite willing to take another reasonable offer later rather than deal with that club (even if the offer was higher). I have no problem with the AI having the same mentality, and it would be unrealistic if it didn't.

"But the player is a newgen and just joined the game!!" Yes, and your scouts have just told you hes likely to be the next world-beater. Do you think your the only one with scouts? the club he belongs to also probably knows hes going to the next best thing and might not want to sell him for a few years when they can get 20x more for him just like you would. This has actually been dramatically improved over the last few versions and now with the higher CAs, clubs wont just give away their top prospects anymore.

It is still very possible to sign players for reasonable fees, it just takes more work. Relationships between coaches as well as between coaches and players are vital, as is learning how to utilize the media to your advantage. You also need to be able to just walk away if the other team simply isn't interested and instead focus on another player. Go in with a specific budget

There is still way too much money in the game at the highest level, which in turn leads to a super inflated market. This has also accurately reflected the RL situation regarding transfers up until this last season where the recession has really cut spending across the board (unless your man city).

[Brend]

Not sure if it was you who mentioned Gallas or not.

I mentioned Gallas. In a recent new save, he epitomized what the term 'absurd overvaluation' means.

Truth be told, I think most of you are getting sidetracked on a debate about the absolute top players in the world. Yes, clubs are going to reject all but the absurd offers for them. That I don't debate. What I do have a problem with is the middling stars-- those players who are quite talented, but who aren't key players. I've moved ahead another month in the save I used to quote prices earlier. Many of the players are still tagged with absurd asking values.

It's actually kind of interesting, when you really start to look at the patterns. There is actually a team-wide threshold for absurdity, which differs for the top teams. I assume it's based on reputation, but it's tough to say. Anyways, some interesting facts:

Team: Chelsea

Threshold: £109,518,630

Chelsea has 8 players valued at £109,518,630: Anelka, Carvalho, Cech, A. Cole, Drogba, Lampard, Mikel, and Terry. Michael Essien is valued just north of that, at 110,834,110.

Team: Arsenal

Threshold: £81,115,980

Arsenal has 8 players valued at £81,115,980: Arshavin, Clichy, Fabregas, Gallas, Guardado, Nasri, van Persie, Vermaelen. Bakary Sagna is valued, like Essian, slightly higher, at 85,309,800.

Team: Valencia

Threshold: £78,665,350

Valencia has 7 players valued at £78,665,350: Banega, A. Dominguez, Mata, Mathieu, Pablo Hernandez, David Silva, David Villa. What makes Valencia interesting is that we have our first two players who have never had an international cap. Alejandro Dominguez, at 28 years of age, has never broken into the Argentine squad. Jeremy Mathieu, likewise, has never broken into the French national squad, at the age of 26.

Several other top teams have a similar threshold for absurd values, but those values all tend to be off by a few hundred (or few thousand) pounds per player. Real Madrid, for example, have 8 players who have sale values of approximately £115.4 million. This trend seems to reveal the fact that top teams slap a "generic" value on first-team players, regardless of whether they're actually international superstars, or if they're comparatively second-rate first-team players, like Dominguez and Mathieu. On an interesting side-note, the value slapped on Mathieu has allowed him to overtake a dubious record held by his countryman, Gallas: most excessive overvaluation. Mathieu's listed value in-game is £2,462,150. With a sale value of £78,665,350, Mathieu's sale value is ~31.94x his listed value. Fantastic Frenchman!

[AcidBurn]

I can understand the prices placed on Terry, Cole, Cech, Lampard and Drogba. These players would be hard to replace I mean the AI would probably not think I could sell Drogba for £20 million and buy Cardozo for £12 million to replace him. The rest are just crazy values but are these values the total truth or can they be negotiated?

On a side not although not really too relevant Mathieu is one of the best fullbacks I have ever had. Not quite £80 million worth though lol.

[Brend]

I can understand the prices placed on Terry, Cole, Cech, Lampard and Drogba. These players would be hard to replace I mean the AI would probably not think I could sell Drogba for £20 million and buy Cardozo for £12 million to replace him. The rest are just crazy values but are these values the total truth or can they be negotiated?

On a side not although not really too relevant Mathieu is one of the best fullbacks I have ever had. Not quite £80 million worth though lol.

As for whether those values can be negotiated, I don't know. I'm managing Sheffield Wednesday, so I essentially have no money. I'm so skint at the moment that I hold onto every last penny until it gets stretched into copper wire.

Some of the players, however, have visible release clauses lower than their sale value-- which means that the clubs are still slapping that "generic" value on them in an effort to get more money than the advertised release clause.

[AcidBurn]

I think the values are negotiable but not by much genie has for example Iniesta listed a sale value of £118 million I could only get an offer of £92 million accepted. Fabregas is listed at £57 million and Arsenal would not accept a penny less.

[Guest]

I pick small clubs and try to turn them into world beaters. On my game I got to the prem with a nonleauge club. Had zero money after finally getting a decent staidum. I needed a back up GK ,a left back and a striker. I found a back up keeper, at a small club and back up there. They wouldnt take anything less than 12Million. Seriously IRL they probably would have give him away just to get him of the wage bill.

Next target was a left back. I spotted a 28 year old English guy, never palyed for england valued at 2.5 millionm at an average club, squad status was back up and they wouldnt take anything less than 25Million.

I found a striker at birmingham, in the championship. They wouldnt accept anything less than 25m. No way could they refuse 15m let alone expect 25m for a decent championship striker.

It wasnt because I inflated the prices I just did without. I just couldnt sign anyone. (Couldnt sell anyone either. No one wanted anyone.) I could only afford 1 keeper in my whole squad. 25m a player?

Spent 8 years on a game and had 1 bid for a player less than what he was worth and the board accepted over my head.

And that is basically one of the reasons why FM10 was one of the worst Fms ever released and why I'm still enjoying FM08. The other reason was good players happy not to play and expecting a wage rise not a wage cut to join a club that will play them. Realism went out the window.

Oh, yeah, and team talks was absoulte bollocks too. and before I forget winning more trophys in your rein than the club did in its entire history yet not even considered in the favoured personal while a player you signed last season and scored half a dozen goals does.

Broke FM.

[charlo116]

Regardless of that, 83 mil for a wonderkid?

Do I need to remind you that c ronaldo was sold for 80 mil at his peak?

Does inflation mean anything to you? I'm not sure whether its actually taken into account at all in fm but surely by the year 2050 and beyond you would expect prices to be much higher.

[Guest]

They cant add inflation unless they start inflating prize money and ticket costs, which they dont. It's not inflation Its unrealism.

[Brend]

Does inflation mean anything to you? I'm not sure whether its actually taken into account at all in fm but surely by the year 2050 and beyond you would expect prices to be much higher.

The save I quoted those prices from is currently in November, 2009. Inflation indeed.

[charlo116]

They cant add inflation unless they start inflating prize money and ticket costs, which they dont. It's not inflation Its unrealism.

True thats why i don't think its in there but just lokm at the ridiculous increases in transfer fees in the past couple of years irl, SI may have programmed fees to stick to those ridiculous amounts or go further.

The save I quoted those prices from is currently in November, 2009. Inflation indeed.

Didn't see your post until just now as i was referring to figures that were in 2050 and beyond, but like you said you don't know whether those values can be negotiated. They're ridiculous and i've never seen that for those players in fm, the first transfer window can be a bit odd as players might not want to move but will then want to move in january but that certainly isn't normal in fm terms.

[dafuge]

Team: Chelsea

Threshold: £109,518,630

Chelsea has 8 players valued at £109,518,630: Anelka, Carvalho, Cech, A. Cole, Drogba, Lampard, Mikel, and Terry. Michael Essien is valued just north of that, at 110,834,110.

Team: Arsenal

Threshold: £81,115,980

Arsenal has 8 players valued at £81,115,980: Arshavin, Clichy, Fabregas, Gallas, Guardado, Nasri, van Persie, Vermaelen. Bakary Sagna is valued, like Essian, slightly higher, at 85,309,800.

Team: Valencia

Threshold: £78,665,350

Valencia has 7 players valued at £78,665,350: Banega, A. Dominguez, Mata, Mathieu, Pablo Hernandez, David Silva, David Villa. What makes Valencia interesting is that we have our first two players who have never had an international cap. Alejandro Dominguez, at 28 years of age, has never broken into the Argentine squad. Jeremy Mathieu, likewise, has never broken into the French national squad, at the age of 26.

I'm not denying that a bid of £70m would ever be rejected for these players in real life, but I am suggesting that no club in their right mind would ever make a bid like that, meaning that these players will not move unless their situation changes.

I'm still interested to find out if these values can only be found using genie scout or by making unrealistic bids. I know it might take a while, but is it possible for you to find the exact offer needed to get the clubs to respond with these asking prices instead of just rejecting them?

Maybe just take the Gallas example. Decide for yourself what would be a realistic transfer fee for him, offer it and see what happens. Does the AI respond with an asking price of £80m? What offer does it take to get this response?

[dafuge]

I'm interested in trying this out myself, so I'm testing it out with Gallas. Standard 10.3 database.

First attempt I loaded just the Spanish league and tried to buy him with Real Madrid.

The scout report suggest a bid of £5.75m would get him.

I bid £6m, they asked for £9.25m.

I bid £7m, accepted.

Perhaps not loading the English league has affected this one?

Second attempt I loaded just the English league and tried to buy him with Man City (biggest club that is not a rival).

The scout report suggested he wouldn't be interested and mentioned no prices.

I bid £3m, they rejected.

I bid £6m, they asked for £8.9m.

I bid £7m, they accepted.

This obviously isn't working, can anyone who uses genie scout give me an example of a player who has one of these silly asking prices at the start of the game?

[AcidBurn]

Adriano from Sevilla in game value £4.1 million sale value £44.9 million

Luis Perea from Ath. Madrid in game value £3.1 millionsale value £127 million

Jeremy Mathieu from Valencia in game value £2.4 millionle value £78 million

Simao from Ath. Madrid game value £6.7 million sale value £127 million

Schweinsteiger Bayern £6.7 million value sale value £121 million

Wayne Bridge £12 million value sale value £142 million

Those are on the first day of the season.

[Brend]

I decided to bid for Gallas with money I don't have. As Sheff Wed, in December 2009, these were the results:

I bid £7.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £9.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £15m, and they rejected.

I bid £25m, and they rejected.

I bid £35m, and they rejected.

I bid £60m, and they rejected, but this time they negotiated: Arsenal want £102m for Gallas, and all of it up front.

[AcidBurn]

Very start of the game I just bid £3.5 million for Gallas and they accepted.

[Brend]

Here's the screenshot for the Gallas negotiation:

[AcidBurn]

The genie values must be negotiable, I started bidding for Simao at his value and increase by between £2.5 million and £5 million when I got to £17.5 million they wanted £31.7 million, once they negotiated whatever I increased my bid by they decreased what they wanted by the same amount. In the end I got an offer £25 million accepted, might seem like a lot but they bought him two years a go for £17.75 million so to me that example makes perfect sense.

[dafuge]

I decided to bid for Gallas with money I don't have. As Sheff Wed, in December 2009, these were the results:

I bid £7.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £9.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £15m, and they rejected.

I bid £25m, and they rejected.

I bid £35m, and they rejected.

I bid £60m, and they rejected, but this time they negotiated: Arsenal want £102m for Gallas, and all of it up front.

That's great

My point was that any manager playing realistically would have pulled out of the negotiations way before they negotiated to £102m. If people are bidding £60m for a player like Gallas then they can't really complain about the lack of realism in the transfer market.

[dafuge]

Adriano from Sevilla in game value £4.1 million sale value £44.9 million

Luis Perea from Ath. Madrid in game value £3.1 millionsale value £127 million

Jeremy Mathieu from Valencia in game value £2.4 millionle value £78 million

Simao from Ath. Madrid game value £6.7 million sale value £127 million

Schweinsteiger Bayern £6.7 million value sale value £121 million

Wayne Bridge £12 million value sale value £142 million

Those are on the first day of the season.

Thanks for those, I'll take a look. I'm not too familiar with all of these players, so could anyone suggest a realistic price that might be accepted in real life for each of them?

[Cougar2010]

I decided to bid for Gallas with money I don't have. As Sheff Wed, in December 2009, these were the results:

I bid £7.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £9.5m, and they rejected.

I bid £15m, and they rejected.

I bid £25m, and they rejected.

I bid £35m, and they rejected.

I bid £60m, and they rejected, but this time they negotiated: Arsenal want £102m for Gallas, and all of it up front.

The obvious difference between your experience above and dafuge's example is the team you are playing as.

Because you are playing in a lower division and have a much lower rep Arsenal don't feel threatened by your bidding and are happy to reject the offers but eventually they get sick of you asking and quote a figure to make you go away.

At what point does it get unrealistic? well it goes back to dafuge's comments/theory. Its unrealistic that the bids at £35m & £60m were rejected, probably even the £25m but it shouldn't have got that far to start with.

You bid £7.5m then £9.5m & then £15m all rejected outright. In real life (definitely when the third bid was rejected) the manager would pull out and chase other targets rather than upping the bid further.

On a sidenote did you even have the money to complete the transfer had it been accepted? Does the AI know how much teams can afford? Does this affect how they react to bids?

I do wonder if reputation is playing a role, are the people having issues playing as lower teams who have achieved quick promotions and are overachieving compared to their reputation. The users are then seeing themselves as title challengers whereas the AI still sees them as relegation contenders.

[Cougar2010]

Thanks for those, I'll take a look. I'm not too familiar with all of these players, so could anyone suggest a realistic price that might be accepted in real life for each of them?

I think Bridge is a good one to work with dafuge.

A rotation player who Chelsea would probably sell in RL for a realistic amount and Bridge would be happy to move for first team football.

In RL I would have thought £10m tops would get him but it maybe depends on the length of his contract.

[dafuge]

I do wonder if reputation is playing a role, are the people having issues playing as lower teams who have achieved quick promotions and are overachieving compared to their reputation. The users are then seeing themselves as title challengers whereas the AI still sees them as relegation contenders.

It does happen with big clubs, I've seen it maybe four times, all with players who I had made massive bids for (which I probably wouldn't have gone through with anyway). Two of those players I gave up on and never signed, two of them I picked up on free transfers at the end of their contracts

[Neji]

If people are bidding £60m for a player like Gallas then they can't really complain about the lack of realism in the transfer market.

While I understand the point you're making, I think this view covers over a real flaw in the game. I don't have a massive problem with prices asked but in no circumstance should Arsenal reject a 60m bid for Gallas. It's insane, whether I'm acting realistically or not.

[AcidBurn]

Barcelona signed Adriano for 9.5 million Euros, so that one is worth a look.

[dafuge]

While I understand the point you're making, I think this view covers over a real flaw in the game. I don't have a massive problem with prices asked but in no circumstance should Arsenal reject a 60m bid for Gallas. It's insane, whether I'm acting realistically or not.

I agree, they shouldn't be rejecting it (I think I said that earlier). I'm not trying to justify the rejections/asking prices, I'm just trying to point out that the game doesn't always cope well with unrealistic situations, which could be described as a fault. Then again, you could argue that the game shouldn't be allowing us to make these unrealistic bids in the first place with some kind of chairman interference. That may solve the problem, but I'd imagine there would be a fair few unhappy people.

My only worry is that by adapting the transfer system to allow our unrealistic actions to be dealt with realistically, it will cause a knock on effect elsewhere, losing the balance in AI transfers (which I think is pretty good).

[Rista]

That's great

My point was that any manager playing realistically would have pulled out of the negotiations way before they negotiated to £102m. If people are bidding £60m for a player like Gallas then they can't really complain about the lack of realism in the transfer market.

But surely, it's the AI who make human managers bid those unrealistic prices and not the other way around? I mean, it's not like people are making starting bids of 60m for players valued 5-10m. I get what you are saying about managers pulling out out of the deal long before the selling club negotiate to huge prices but paying way over the odds does happen IRL. The only difference is that on FM, over the odds very often means insane amounts of money.

Also, I'm not really convinced the Gallas example is due to different teams making the bid. If it is, then it is wrong and doesn't make sense. Arsenal would sell Gallas for 7m to Manchester City and Real Madrid and yet they are asking 102m from Sheffield Wednesday because they are a small club?! I believe the AI has no idea how much teams can afford. Club reputation probably does have an influence, as it should, but if that's the reason for such huge differences in the two examples, then there is obviously something wrong with it.