ME too realistic / rest of game too fantastic

[baker.simon]

That sums up the apparently irreconcilable differences in outlook which have emerged in this thread.

However, it's interesting to note that on the back of the FM 2010 box (check for yourself) the following appears:

'Kings of the genre Sports Interactive with 17 years and 8 UK No.1 football management games under their belts are back.

Following Football Manager 2009 being voted the greatest football game of all time in a BBC Radio 1 poll......'

Now if SI themselves are describing it as a game, it seems to me that it's not unreasonable to view it as such, somehow!

And after all that, it stil gets put in the simulation section of shops and online retailers

[baker.simon]

Surely OP is being sarcastic...

What a ridiculous thread. Some people think ME is too realistic, some people think ME is too unrealistic, game is too easy, game is too hard.. does it ever stop?

I have to concur with this, and I've said it earlier in the thread aswell.

It just astounds me what people will moan about.

"This game is too good, I demand you make it worse"

I mean, come on OP

[Sloppy Giuseppe]

I thought the 'here's one example' would have given it away that it was just one example of what he is experiencing?

Evidently not

But there's no evidence of frequency Simon. Please try and keep up.

[Dees-Blake]

Does there need to be an evidence of frequency, Giuseppe? He merely stated that it seems to be frequent, which is evidence enough, and then posted a screenshot of one such occurrence where there was a high scoring match. He wasn't attempting to portray the frequency through his one screenshot, merely to provide an example of what the score-line is like in these matches.

[Rupal]

I have to concur with this, and I've said it earlier in the thread aswell.

It just astounds me what people will moan about.

"This game is too good, I demand you make it worse"

I mean, come on OP

But the OP hasn't said that.

He's not said that the game is too GOOD - he's said that it doesn't play so well because there is too much 'realism'. You are assuming that realism = good, which ain't necessarily so.

[fabioke]

It's a game. But the greatest selling point is realism.

[Rupal]

It's a game. But the greatest selling point is realism.

That is possibly correct. But if it doesn't deliver as it should on the 'enjoyment' side then people will tend to get fed up and stop playing it. And they won't buy next year's edition because they didn't have enough fun with this year's.

[ac13]

also fantastic = the opposite of realism (as he says about getting low division teams to the top of the prem in quick time).

If SI choose to make it less than realistic in terms of making it relatively easy to get players you shouldn't be able to at lower division clubs because it's more fun that way then he has a point about the ME. Why is it ok to make one element unrealistic and not another? I doubt SI intentionally make it unrealistic in this way though. It seems more down to (of late) other clubs just not being that good at managing squads and keeping a good balance of youth and experienced players and not buying players to improve their squad when they clearly could.

after a few seasons every time a top division team offers you a managerial position they have 50-80m transfer budget. Why could the previous manager not be bothered to spend it? What managers in real life wouldn't if they were a midtable team?

I remember in the older versions of the game whenever you found a good youngster it was really difficult to get him because the other top teams were invariably after him as well. Now with the much bigger database I suppose 'the teams can't be after all the good players around but has seemed too easy.

[RT--]

That is possibly correct. But if it doesn't deliver as it should on the 'enjoyment' side then people will tend to get fed up and stop playing it. And they won't buy next year's edition because they didn't have enough fun with this year's.

With respect, you said the same thing last year, and yet the sales figures for FM10 showed no sign of decline at all.

Could it perhaps be that most people are enjoying the game as much they ever did?

[cynet]

The game has come on leaps and bounds since fm09 and the match engine is superb now on 10.3 and each year it will get better and better.

The depth is great and the format is brilliant, there will never be a management game of this magnitude ever again and i salute SI for it's achievement.

The thread is based on a silly notion of that it's to realistic now and no fun, does any real manager out there think being a manager at times is fun, it's the most stressful and realistic job in the world.

[hd644]

I think the game strikes a pretty good balance at the moment, and that the match engine has never been better (although there is of course still room for improvement).

One thing that can be irritating is that not enough goals are scored in the Dutch league. In real life, Ajax and PSV regularly finish the season with over 80 goals (especially Ajax), and results like 4-1, 4-2, and 5-2 aren't uncommon in Dutch football. For some reason this doesn't translate into FM, with results like 1-0, 2-1, and 2-0 being the norm.

The only other thing is that international managers seem to have kind of wacky selection policies sometimes.

[Celts1888]

The ME at the minute is the best it has ever been and really enjoyable in my long term save.

[ArsenalFan7]

Isn't FM suppost to be realistic?

If it wasn't realistic I'd be on Fifa rather than this, to make the ME less realistic if at all possible would be a dumb move IMO.

[Rupal]

With respect, you said the same thing last year, and yet the sales figures for FM10 showed no sign of decline at all.

Could it perhaps be that most people are enjoying the game as much they ever did?

You may be right. However, the fact is that the game has enjoyed a virtual monopoly position in the market for a long time. If you want a football management game it has been FM or nothing, really.

I think that SI have to look over their shoulder at CM now, though. Their match engine is certainly not significantly worse than FM's in my opinion and that gives them a reasonable basis upon which they can build to develop other aspects of their product. It may not be such a comfortable ride in the future for FM.

[ac13]

I think the game strikes a pretty good balance at the moment, and that the match engine has never been better (although there is of course still room for improvement).

One thing that can be irritating is that not enough goals are scored in the Dutch league. In real life, Ajax and PSV regularly finish the season with over 80 goals (especially Ajax), and results like 4-1, 4-2, and 5-2 aren't uncommon in Dutch football. For some reason this doesn't translate into FM, with results like 1-0, 2-1, and 2-0 being the norm.

The only other thing is that international managers seem to have kind of wacky selection policies sometimes.

Yeah from my recollection the english and scottish are the only leagues where the average was under 3 goal per game (was around 2.5) for 2008/9. All the other were between 3-4 goals per game. Not sure how ME would replicate this....have english teams play more defensively?

[AnythingIsPossible]

I wouldnt say realistic and goals from corners are too easy, heres my pensioner to pensioner combo ive been testing, wanted to see if this corner thing works, my findings are-

I set Ryan giggs as my corner taker and Scholes lurking outside box, with the rest on wait at far and near, why cant we have a option to put a defender on edge of box?

Paul scholes 9 goals in 3 games including 4 past chelsea in community shield, plus a couple that hit other players and went in.

[roykela]

And after all that, it stil gets put in the simulation section of shops and online retailers

So what's the difference between a computer game and simulation?

[Vic Taylor]

So what's the difference between a computer game and simulation?

A computer game doesn't "copy" rl, so it isn't as realistic?

[speople]

A computer game doesn't "copy" rl, so it isn't as realistic?

Yeah, like i posted about the F1 Simulation, had every track copied, each lap lasted the same time as irl, tryes wore out etc.

Whereas virtually any racing 'game' will last probably 5-6 laps at most.

[senorcoo]

I disagree - I find a close match quite literally has me on the edge of my seat. I'm happier with things being more realistic.

I agree. It's really a dramatic improvement over the original release. I have to say that they seem to have found a perfect balance. It's just too bad that it takes 4-5 months after SI has our money before we get the finished product.

[roykela]

A computer game doesn't "copy" rl, so it isn't as realistic?

Just had to ask as i read that a game was regarded a simulation when its purpose was to to re-create and simulate the real world accurately. Just got stuck on the word "accurately"

I have to ask this as well, as i really don't know myself.

If something is supposed to be a real-life simulator, is it normal to change parts of the simulation so those parts becomes nothing like the real-world? Just for the purpose to make it more fun and playable?

Is it still a simulator? Does it become a "semi-sim"? Or does it become "just a game"?

Where is the line drawn?

[Vic Taylor]

I very much doubt SI are going to tone down the realism. They do, after all, boast the "most realistic management game" out there.

[StevoRobbo]

yep. realistic until they release the third patch with all the Jan transfers happening at the start of the season. that just kills it for me

[Cantens]

To ask for less realism is to miss the point of 'Football Manager'. If you find it more enjoyable to watch pre-war goal fests than tight matches, you indeed should look for other games. The realism aspect is essential to FM. Personally, I'd even applaud SI if they made the game even harder (= more realistic), particularly in the transfer department. The fun is in the challenge.

[baker.simon]

yep. realistic until they release the third patch with all the Jan transfers happening at the start of the season. that just kills it for me

You don't have to use the latest database though do you? You can easily choose say a 10.2 database and run it with the 10.3 bug fixes.

[StevoRobbo]

You don't have to use the latest database though do you? You can easily choose say a 10.2 database and run it with the 10.3 bug fixes.

well no, i want the jan transfers in the game. i just want them to happen in jan like they are supposed to

[Vic Taylor]

well no, i want the jan transfers in the game. i just want them to happen in jan like they are supposed to

Check over in the Editors Hideaway. There are a few downloadable databases with the Jan transfers happening in Jan.

[grade]

To ask for less realism is to miss the point of 'Football Manager'. If you find it more enjoyable to watch pre-war goal fests than tight matches, you indeed should look for other games. The realism aspect is essential to FM. Personally, I'd even applaud SI if they made the game even harder (= more realistic), particularly in the transfer department. The fun is in the challenge.

I can't speak for others, but When I play game, i play it because I want to have fun with it. Sure realism is one of the key of the fun, but not the only one. Let's be real here, this is computer game. I think a balance between the two should be achieved to have that lot improvement must be made for the AI both Transfer and manager other clubs and the improvement in physics of the ME, with players doing their roles as they should.

If this is improved vastly the game will be harder and challenging without introducing more features and so more people can enjoy it. Sure can't please everybody, but using this to maintain things as they are, when they have the potential to be much, much better.