No Defensive winger option for AML/AMR

Why has this been removed from the game, from memory i'm sure it was in the 2015 Version

Surely as a manager you could use defensive wingers pressing high to to stop teams playing with super aggressive full backs, not sure why it has been removed

It wasn't in 2015 either. I complained a decent bit about how the AM spectrum is the only one that doesn't include Attack, Defend and Support duties.

Can anybody think of a player whose primary function is to "defend" in that sort of area of the pitch and just lay off a simple pass to a team mate?

If memory serves, its original inclusion at AML/R was a mistake, it was only ever intended to be available at ML/R.

Can anybody think of a player whose primary function is to "defend" in that sort of area of the pitch and just lay off a simple pass to a team mate?

If memory serves, its original inclusion at AML/R was a mistake, it was only ever intended to be available at ML/R.

To be fair, there is a defensive forward. I don't see how it would be so bad having a player high up the pitch and wide also with a defensive role. Could be useful for a defensive 4-3-3 if looking to press with a front 3 but then hold shape when the opponents get past the front 3. I never use it anyway, makes no difference to me :')

You could play a defensive minded player wherever you wanted if your a football manager, why then in that instance have a defensive forward?

Of course you could play with defensive wingers to play against Narrow teams with inside forwards who use full backs as auxilliary wingers, ive just done it against arsenal, used the

two wingers to mark tight and close down the fullbacks and it stopped them attacking, look at the great defensive teams in the past, milan in the 90's won the league scoring 34 goals,

there entire team played defensive pressing

You could play a defensive minded player wherever you wanted if your a football manager, why then in that instance have a defensive forward?

Of course you could play with defensive wingers to play against Narrow teams with inside forwards who use full backs as auxilliary wingers, ive just done it against arsenal, used the

two wingers to mark tight and close down the fullbacks and it stopped them attacking, look at the great defensive teams in the past, milan in the 90's won the league scoring 34 goals,

there entire team played defensive pressing

It was 36 goals. But incredibly They never scored more than 2 goals in a game all season. That said it was fairly unusual as the others years they won the title in the 90's they did score more goals than that.

Can anybody think of a player whose primary function is to "defend" in that sort of area of the pitch and just lay off a simple pass to a team mate?

Kuijt and Olic maybe? Don't know about AM R/L, but I can certainly think of a "tactical", defend minded AM C whose main duty is to occupy the space between midfield and attack, keeping an eye on the opposing "regista". Players like Perrotta (Spalletti's Roma, late 2000's) and Nainggolan (Spalletti's Roma, today), or Boateng (Allegri's Milan) and Vidal/Pereyra (Allegri's Juventus), perhaps even Tim Cahill and Fellaini at Everton and Kevin Nolan at West Ham.

I don't know how to describe such players in FM terms, maybe advanced BWM or deep-lying DF?

The DFd basically already describes the defensive duties of Vidal or Fellaini; it's just that the role isn't available in the AMC position.

Can anybody think of a player whose primary function is to "defend" in that sort of area of the pitch and just lay off a simple pass to a team mate?

If memory serves, its original inclusion at AML/R was a mistake, it was only ever intended to be available at ML/R.

Laying simple passes off isn't mentioned in the description of the DW.

The Defensive Winger aims to press the opposing full backs, win back the ball high up the pitch and either hold it up for the rest of the team, drive to the byline or get in a quick cross or through ball for the forwards.

Holding it up, maybe. But putting in quick crosses or through balls is a creative endeavor. Driving to the byline is an attacking action intended to lead to a key pass.

The two duties obviously differ further in their description. The defend duty reads:

With a defend duty, the Defensive Winger's job is to primarily provide insurance for the defenders behind him, working diligently to reduce the threat posed by opponents in his area of the pitch and to break up attacks higher up the pitch.

So yes, primarily defensive. Similarly to the Ball-Winning Midfielder, though, there's a a good bit of attacking responsibility. With a support duty, the DW is supposed to take on and beat opposing defenders before crossing. Though it does so in an unorthodox way, the DW role is fairly creative.

As for players and teams who fill this remit, for the last two seasons Arsenal have closed out games by bringing Keiran Gibbs on as a 75th minute substitute to play on the left side of the attack. He clearly plays high up the pitch - significantly further forward than the midfield - and has a remit of keeping his position on the wing, breaking up attacks, preventing overlapping attacks from fullbacks and putting in crosses. Hector Bellerin, Nacho Monreal and Calum Chambers have all done similar things at points. In addition, before the game against Dinamo Zagreb, Joel Campbell's outstanding characteristic was considered to be his workrate and defensive diligence, again from a clearly advanced position.

One could also make the argument that Luis Suarez filled this sort of role at times in his most successful season at Liverpool, playing wide of Daniel Sturridge. While ordinarily a DW wouldn't be expected to get the goals that Suarez did, Suarez is not an ordinary player. Liverpool have form here; Dirk Kuyt was the prototypical defensive winger for years. And back to Arsenal, who struggled for years with Manchester United's Park Ji-Sung's running. Park's workrate and tackling in advanced positions was necessary to cover for Ronaldo's lack of those things. Park's disciplined positioning helped compensate for Rooney's lack thereof (another player frequently lauded for his defensive work in attacking areas, though one usually played through the middle). In his early appearances for Barcelona, Pedro was another player who was counted on to impact the game with pressing and running high on the wing.

Defensive wingers aren't common, but they aren't unheard-of, either. They are most frequently utilized in 4-2-3-1 systems to compensate for a lack of defensive workrate on the opposite flank, or as a late change to close the game out.

I can't see what harm leaving it in the game would have done. Same with Attack duties on the DW or Defensive Forward.

Can anybody think of a player whose primary function is to "defend" in that sort of area of the pitch and just lay off a simple pass to a team mate?

If memory serves, its original inclusion at AML/R was a mistake, it was only ever intended to be available at ML/R.

Dirk Kuyt at Liverpool under Rafa Benetiez?

Apologies I have just seen he was mentioned in an earlier post.

A similar question..

Why there is no way to MR/MLs play as inside forward?

A similar question..

Why there is no way to MR/MLs play as inside forward?

Because the Wide Midfielder Role can be adjusted via Player Instructions to do exactly the same stuff as an IF.

In fact a generation of 4-4-2 counterattacking formations in FM2015 relied on using wide midfielders as inside forwards.

in FM14, I had a couple wingers with good defensives that I played as "attacking defensive wingers" to devestating effect. They'd charge in on the fullbacks, steal the ball away and feed it back to the amc or strikers. Just can't seem to get the same level of play anymore.

what's stopping you from simply putting defensive minded players in that AMR or AML position? Wouldn't their defensive tendencies effectively make them defensive wingers? Like if you put Kieran Gibbs at AML and Bellerin at AMR or something.

I'm thinking a DR/DL with the right stats and PPMs position trained to play in the AMR/AML slots could do a pretty good job, especially with the proper individual instructions as well.

If you want a defensive AMR or AMR/L then play them at MR/L. A MR/L is literally a more defensive winger than AMR/L.

Tbh you can just use normal wingers and tell them to close down more, mark tighter and tackle harder.

I'm much more annoyed by the lack of an equivalent of wide midfielder role in the AML / AMR positions. You either tell them to hug the wing and cross (winger), or to cut inside dribble and shoot (IF), or to sit still and pass (AP), there's no way to tell them to do a bit of each.

If you want a defensive AMR or AMR/L then play them at MR/L. A MR/L is literally a more defensive winger than AMR/L.

No. The two positions are for different things. MRL will have a deeper default starting position than AMRL, for one.