Problem with steam crashes and results of replayed games afterwards.

MAKE MATCH RESULTS MORE RELIABLE

(decrease the level of randomness of match results and even outcomes)

I shall modify, actially alter my previous suggestion for FM16 a bit here.

I am not saying, that favorite teams should always win their matches, after all football is a game too, where surprises are quite possible.

However, in FM15, I still consider the results often extremely unreliable.

So unreliable, that they really hurt the game-realism a lot.

I have 2 nice examples to demonstrate this:

1.

A Stean crash happened round a week ago. (bought and playing the game on Steam)

Right before the crash, both my favorite team, (Hajduk Split, and my Under 21 team had a match.

I clearly remember Hajduk, as obvious favorite, playing a 0-0 draw on an away match vs Zorya, and my Under 21 team playing a 1-1 draw at home.

Since I am a perfectionist, and an extreme fair-player, I wanted to continue the game with the very same results, so after the crach I started to keep re loading my last saved game, (right before the Hajduk and my Under 21 match), until the very same results happen again on those 2 mentioned matches.

I repeated the re-loading round 100 times, (literarily), but the same results never happened again.

Even when both teams played a draw, the scores were significantly higher, like 2-2 and 3-3.

But the main problem was, that even such cases happened very rarely.

Most often extremely surprising results happened instead, all the way on scale from 4-0 win to 0-4 loss, on both matches.

So Hajduk have oftewn won, but also often lost - to 0, and my Under 21s often scored or received 4 goals on their match even, with results like 4-1 or 4-2.

At the end I had to satisfy with a 1-1 and 2-2 draw variation, after round 2 hours of "re-loading attempts".

2.

Another Steam crash happened right after one of my matches, before I could save the game.

I have won that match 4-1, was playing at home as favorite, against my own under 18 team, so that particular result was realistic enough.

However, when I repeated the match after the crash, with the very same tactic set, (meaning all tactical instructions were exactly the same), 1st time I lost 3 to 0.

Then I kept replaying the match after the crash, in order to correct, to "mae things right againt", but often even totally weird final results happened, like losing 4 to 1, (instead of a 4-1 win), and I even remember a 3-6 loss as the final outcome.

But basically results kept varying real heavily, totally regardless of the actual initial ods and team quality/strength, as if the final score/outcome was set to total random, both draws and heavy losses were just as common as 3+ giual victories.

So again, I don't expect the very same results to occure when using the very same settings, I do approve a certain level of randomness by final results and outcome, after all that aspect is the interesting part in football, sensations may, and should happen, favorites may lose, etc...... so I totally support the possibility of totally unpredictable, unexpected results to remain present, but I still consider this current, overdone level of randomness of results for too unrealistic, and do hope SI Team will make the the final match scores at least a bit more realistic in most cases, so a bit less unreliable/unpredictable in the incoming FM16 game.

a) This isn't a wishlist thread

b) Every game you play is different. Even replayed ones. If you're just simply looking at the final score, you miss a lot. Matches are dynamic. Even if you don't make changes. Different things will happen. Goals will be scored at different times. The AI will be making changes based on this. If you needed to reload that many times, your tactic isn't or your players aren't very consistent. Seems more like the win was a fluke.

Caccio, I don't think the fact that you are getting different result with replayed games is your major issue here. You shouldn't be getting so many crashes.

You really need to find out why your game keeps crashing because it is not normal. There is something wrong with your system.

Getting different results when you replay a game you've already played is unrealistic? Well, for once you're right, although not for the reasons you think.

Getting different results when you replay a game you've already played is unrealistic? Well, for once you're right, although not for the reasons you think.

It is not the game what crashes, but Steam itself, accordingly for being overloaded, or too crowded, or something similar, can't remember the exact crash reason given.

Normally along with the Steam-crash, as its result, the FM15 game also just "disappears" into nowhere.

And actually it happens pretty rarely, but with my constant, standard bad luck, each time at the very worst moment. (for me)

At least I made a use of it by being able to describe it's consequences here to you people, LOL!

As for the previous Forum comment, I explained, my problems are not the different results of the same matches, (with same tactics), football is a game, unexpected things can, and should happen in it.

However, when a clear favorite team plays a much weaker, outsider opponent, in reality, the final outcome is supposed to happen MOST OFTEN in the favor of the favorite team, right?

True, sometimes, but much less often, unexpected sensations MAY happen, but in my examples, those sensational results, (like 0-3, or 1-4, or even 3-6), kept happenng just as often in the favor of the outsider teams, as in favor of the clear favorites.

That is what I consider for too high level of randomness of match results.

Using my previous example aiming to improve game-realism:

Normally, (in most cases), Hajduk Split should either win against Zorya, (which is a significantly weaker quality team), or eventually play a draw against them. (especially when playing away)

So on a Zorya-Hajduk match, those should be the most common and likely final resultxs. (scores like 0-0, 1-1, 0-1, 0-2, 1-3, and similar ones)

Sure, unexpected may happen, Zorya can still pull a surprise on Hajduk, so they can still win by 1, 2, or even 3 goals, but such an unexpected outcome should happen MUCH MORE RARELY than the common and likely ones I mentioned above.

The actual problem is, that such surprising results are almost as frequent as the usual, likely ones in FM15, as I could see for myself in replays of both mentioned matches, Zorya-Hajduk, and my own team's match against our under 18s squad.

In that case Zorya victories by 2-3 goials happened almost just as frequently as the actually expected draw, or Hajduk victory.

That is far from being being realistic if you ask me......

So basically, there are too many unexpected, even sensational match outcomes in FM15, they happen too often, the probability, the factor of surprises, surprising end-scores is obviously too high and likely, it is way overrated, which clearly indicates a problem with overrating the level of random factor when calculating final match results.

Last, but not leaset:

Why am I posting this improvement idea/suggestion for FM16 here?

Simple: It is too late to implement my my "random-result-upgrade-to-improve-realism" type suggestion into FM15 game, it is highly unlikely that any newer versions, updates of it will be nade anymore, so it would be useless posting this into FM15-related Forums, instead I can only concentrate on incoming FM16-related topics and threads.

As far as I know, this is the only existing, proper, and still open Forum thread I could find for posting improvement ideas, suggestions for the incoming FM16 game on this website.

Of course I may be wrong, and failed to find, or spot a more appropriate one, I apologize, my eyesight is weak, so yes, i might have missed it so far.

If so, someone please direct me to the right, or more appropriate, still running Forum thread about this matter!

Thank You!

Last, but not leaset:

Why am I posting this improvement idea/suggestion for FM16 here?

Simple: This is the only proper, and still open Forum thread I could find for posting improvement ideas, suggestions for the incoming FM16 game on this website.

If I am wrong, and failed to find, or spot a more appropriate one, I apologize, my eyesight is weak, so yes, i might have missed it so far.

If so, someone please direct me to the right, or more appropriate, still running Forum thread about this matter!

Thank You!

There's a wishlist thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/306914-What-s-that-A-new-Wishlist-Thread-What-you-would-like-to-see-in-future-FM-versions

Why don't you play in offline mode then?

So basically, there are too many unexpected, even sensational match outcomes in FM15, the probability of surprises, surprising end-scores is obviously too high and likely, which clearly indicates the problem with the level of random factor realism when calculating final match results.

All that means is that your players or tactics are inconsistent. With a decent setup and players, it's easy (too easy, in fact) to go on massive runs where you don't lose.

PLEASE try to understand, I have absolutely nothing against surprising, unexpected match results/outcomes, but against the way overrated/overdriven randommess-factor, which allows such results/outcomes to occure too often to be realistic!

Sure, tactical settings can, and SHOULD influence the game outcome a lot, as well as team selection, formation and strategy, individual instructions, player qualities, form, and morale, even tea,-talk, injuries and bookings during the match......but I still highly doubt they can turn a 3-0 win of a favorite in an AI-RESOLVED MATCH into a 0-3 loss to a total underdog team.

That MAY be possible usually in human player matches, presuming we planned and/or set certain selection/individual/tactical/strategic elements/options/instructions terribly wrong, but its due our own mistake or omission, and things like those were not supposed to NORMALLY happen by automatically, so AI-generated results.

Sure, they still CAN happen now-and-then, but pretty RARELY, (justl like in reality), so by no means as often as they keep happening in the current FM15 game!

PLEASE try to understand, I have absolutely nothing against surprising, unexpected match results/outcomes, but against the way overrated/overdriven randommess-factor, which allows such results/outcomes to occure too often to be realistic!

Sure, tactical settings can, and SHOULD influence the game outcome a lot, as well as team selection, formation and strategy, individual instructions, player qualities, form, and morale, even tea,-talk, injuries and bookings during the match......but I still highly doubt they can turn a 3-0 win of a favorite in an AI-RESOLVED MATCH into a 0-3 loss to a total underdog team.

That MAY be possible in human player matches, presuming we planned certain selection/tactical/strategic elements terribly wrong, but its due our own mistake or omission, and things like those were not supposed to NORMALLY happen by automatically, so AI-generated results.

Sure, they still CAN happen now-and-then, but pretty RARELY, (justl like in reality), so by no means as often as they keep happening in the current FM15 game!

I understand. I've helped a lot of people (elsewhere) with the same issues. The tactics forum here have done the same with users here. It's mostly an issue on your end. Even making in-match changes to any issues you see, will drastically affect results.

Finally, I totally agree!

My problem is, that the same keeps obviously happening pretty often by AI-generated matches too, and that's definitely not how a realistic sport-simulation game should work!

The results of such matches should really be more RELIABLE than that, at least a bit! (in general I mean)

Finally, I totally agree!

My problem is, that the same keeps obviously happening pretty often by AI-generated matches too, and that's definitely not how a realistic sport-simulation game should work!

if this was true leagues would be won by any random team. however, they are (in most cases) won by one of teams you'd bet at season starts.

I never claimed the results to be totally random, or totally unrtealistic.

I merely consider the current level of AI-generated match-result-randomization for too high for the game realism.

DEMONSTRATION OF UNRELIABLE AI-GENERATED MATCH OUTCOMES IN FM15

(merely in order to make my suggestion more evident for everyone)

A Zorya-Hajduk, so an underdog team (home) vs favorite team (away) type match:

Realistic outcome possibilities:

Favorite team, (Hajduk in this case) wins, or plays a draw: round 80%.

Let's say round 40-40% chance for both a draw and a Hajduk victory, to make things more simple.

Then make every 4th Hajduk victory a sensational one, which makes overal round 10% outcome chance.

Round 20% chance of an underdog team's win, (in this case Zorya), mostly due their home advanage.

Of those 20%, round 15% chance of a minor Zorya victory, which is unexpected, but still no sensation.

Round 5% of a sensational, 3+ goals Zorya victory.

So basically the realistic ods are round: 20% loss, 40% draw, 40% win for Hajduk. (the favorite team)

The overal possibility of a sensational result is round 15%

The current outcome possibilities in FM15, normally for AI-generated matches:

Hajduk (favorite team) victory: round 40%, of which round the half are sensational. (by 3+ goals)

Draw: Round 30% chance

Zorya (underdog team) victory: round 30% chance, of which round the half, so overal 15% are sensational. (by 3+ goals)

So the current FM15 ods are round: 30% loss. 30% draw, 40% winf for Hajduk. (the favorite team)

The overal possibility of a sensational result is round 35%.

Now let's compare those 2 calculations!

Indeed, the difference in final outcome is not that fatal at "win-draw-loss level",, after all it consists merely of shifting 10% chance from underdog's team (Zorya) favor to a draw possibility.

However, take a look at the huge difference between realistic, and FM15 overal possibilities of a sensational, 3+ win or loss: it is 15% vs 35%!!!

Which means, round every 3rd fovirite-underdog type match ends with a totally unpredictable, sensational result!!!

A round 35% chance for sensational outcomes is evidently unrealistically high!

Now THAT OUTCOME-UNREALIABILITY of AI-generated matches is what actually hurts the FM15-realism a lot, and THAT is what I would insist to be taken into consideration, and if possible, adjusted in the incoming FM16 game!

DISCLAIMER:

While I adfmit I ain't too familiar with English, or youth football competition in particular, I do consider myself for pretty much familiar with real football in general, as well with the FM15 game itself by now, (as a FM game fan, I played all FM releases all the way back to FM 2007), so I do believe my above stated and specified, "reality-vs-FM15" type calculations are quite accurate..

Normally, I still MAY be wrong, so in that case I am asking a more competent person for correction(s)!

Thank You!

I never claimed the results to be totally random, or totally unrtealistic.

I merely consider the current level of AI-generated match-result-randomization for too high for the game realism.

DEMONSTRATION OF UNRELIABLE AI-GENERATED MATCH OUTCOMES IN FM15

(merely in order to make my suggestion more evident for everyone)

A Zorya-Hajduk, so an underdog team (home) vs favorite team (away) type match:

Realistic outcome possibilities:

Favorite team, (Hajduk in this case) wins, or plays a draw: round 80%.

Let's say round 40-40% chance for both a draw and a Hajduk victory, to make things more simple.

Then make every 4th Hajduk victory a sensational one, which makes overal round 10% outcome chance.

Round 20% chance of an underdog team's win, (in this case Zorya), mostly due their home advanage.

Of those 20%, round 15% chance of a minor Zorya victory, which is unexpected, but still no sensation.

Round 5% of a sensational, 3+ goals Zorya victory.

So basically the realistic ods are round: 20% loss, 40% draw, 40% win for Hajduk. (the favorite team)

The overal possibility of a sensational result is round 15%

The current outcome possibilities in FM15, normally for AI-generated matches:

Hajduk (favorite team) victory: round 40%, of which round the half are sensational. (by 3+ goals)

Draw: Round 30% chance

Zorya (underdog team) victory: round 30% chance, of which round the half, so overal 15% are sensational. (by 3+ goals)

So the current FM15 ods are round: 30% loss. 30% draw, 40% winf for Hajduk. (the favorite team)

The overal possibility of a sensational result is round 35%.

Now let's compare those 2 calculations!

Indeed, the difference in final outcome is not that fatal at "win-draw-loss level",, after all it consists merely of shifting 10% chance from underdog's team (Zorya) favor to a draw possibility.

However, take a look at the huge difference between realistic, and FM15 overal possibilities of a sensational, 3+ win or loss: it is 15% vs 35%!!!

Which means, round every 3rd fovirite-underdog type match ends with a totally unpredictable, sensational result!!!

A round 35% chance for sensational outcomes is evidently unrealistically high!

Now THAT OUTCOME-UNREALIABILITY of AI-generated matches is what actually hurts the FM15-realism a lot, and THAT is what I would insist to be taken into consideration, and if possible, adjusted in the incoming FM16 game!

DISCLAIMER:

While I adfmit I ain't too familiar with English, or youth football competition in particular, I do consider myself for pretty much familiar with real football in general, as well with the FM15 game itself by now, (as a FM game fan, I played all FM releases all the way back to FM 2007), so I do believe my above stated and specified, "reality-vs-FM15" type calculations are quite accurate..

Normally, I still MAY be wrong, so in that case I am asking a more competent person for correction(s)!

Thank You!

Assuming those calculations are all correct they only calculate the result based on a favorite vs an underdog. But in reality favorites turn into underdogs and underdogs turn into powerhouses depending on form, injuries, signings, selling players, manager changes morale etc. There are so many things involved that I don't think it's realistic to add a percentage thats considered "realistic". It's also very different from league to league. There are several sensational results in the Premier League so far, more than your percentages in FM15 would allow for. Even the boring Spanish league have sensational results, Barca losing against Celta Vigo for example...

Oh yeah, sorry for this another addition, but I must specify something before certain people take the phrases of my suggestion literarily:

By "favorite vs outsider" match I don't mean such extreme cases with a huge quality difference, like for example Bacelona or AC Milan vs some 3rd or lower division team, so a total outsider.

In such cases I am quite sure even the current FM15-AI generates totally realistic outcomes, so a sensational victory of the heavily underdog team will hardly ever happen, no matter how many times we replay the AI-generated match. (at least I hope so)

Eventually once out of 100......after all even that is teoretically possible......

Normally even the home-away pitch advantage-disadvantage provides as much as no influence on the final outcome. (except maybe a slight one on the number of dcored-conceeded goals)

My "AI-generad match result suggestion" normally, and logically applied to those cases, when the quality difference between the 2 opposing teams is not THAT huge, so that for example home-away pitch issue, form, morale, selection, tactics, instructions, etc, may still more significantly influence the final outcome.

By this I mostly mean matches of same division teams of different overal quality, or eventually matches of teams with 1 division higher-lower difference.

The same counts for international cups and competitions, so I didn't mean to improve the reliability of AI-generated match results like for example Manchester Utd or Bayern Müchen vs Partizani Tirana or Metalurg Skopje, but ones like Dinamo Zagreb vs Besiktas (Turkey), Rapid Vienna vs Ekranas (Lithiania), or even ones like Tottenham Hotspurs vs CSK Sofia, or Fiorentina vs Legia Warszawa. (but don't go much farther than these examples may I ask)

So if possible, PLEASE don't take the ragarding "favorite-underdog" expressions of my suggestion too literarilly!

It is not the game what crashes, but Steam itself, accordingly for being overloaded, or too crowded, or something similar, can't remember the exact crash reason given.

Normally along with the Steam-crash, as its result, the FM15 game also just "disappears" into nowhere.

And that should not be happening. I have used steam for over ten years and never had it crash.

Have you tried reinstalling steam? Make sure you move the steam aps folder somewhere else first so you don't have to download all your games again.

You should have written down those 100 results so we can compare them to the odds. Now you are remembering mostly the weird ones.

Getting different results when you replay a game you've already played is unrealistic? Well, for once you're right, although not for the reasons you think.

yes, exactly. This what makes the FA Cup so exciting when some of the so called minnow clubs get their chance and knock out the big clubs. The odds are against them and out of 100 matches they would lose a very large majority but that dynamic of luck, determination, no fear etc may all fit into place for that one game where the minnow knocks out the big club

You should have written down those 100 results so we can compare them to the odds. Now you are remembering mostly the weird ones.

But it still wouldn't tell you anything useful. What would it prove? Nothing about realism certainly.

you want scripted game, that is absurd, if you want that one go play some facebook football app, FM is on top of all management football games because it is not scripted...