The Deutschland thread- 16 Jahre warten ist genug!

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1996

Squad:

Goalkeepers: Manuel Neuer (Bayern München), Tim Wiese (Werder Bremen), Ron-Robert Zieler (Hannover 96)

Defence: Holger Badstuber (Bayern), Jerome Boateng (Bayern), Benedikt Höwedes (Schalke), Mats Hummels (Dortmund), Philipp Lahm (Bayern), Per Mertesacker (Arsenal), Marcel Schmelzer (Dortmund)

Midfield: Lars Bender (Leverkusen), Mario Götze (Dortmund), Ilkay Gündogan (Dortmund), Sami Khedira (Real Madrid), Toni Kroos (Bayern), Thomas Müller (Bayern), Mesut Özil (Real Madrid), Lukas Podolski (Köln), Marco Reus (Gladbach), Andre Schürrle (Leverkusen), Bastian Schweinsteiger (Bayern)

Attack: Mario Gomez (Bayern), Miroslav Klose (Lazio)

Road to the EURO:

Belgium-Germany 0-1
Klose

Germany-Azerbaijan 6-1
Westermann    -Dzavadov
Podolski
Klose (2)
Sadygov (OG)
Badstuber

Germany-Turkey 3-0
Klose (2)
Özil

Kazakhstan-Germany 0-3
Klose
Gomez
Podolski

Germany-Kazakhstan 4-0
Klose (2)
Müller (2)

Austria-Germany 1-2
Friedrich (OG)-Gomez (2)

Azerbaijan-Germany 1-3
Huseynov-Özil
             Gomez
             Schürrle

Germany-Austria 6-2
Klose     -Arnautovic
Özil (2)    Harnik
Podolski
Schürrle
Götze

Turkey-Germany 1-3
Balta-Gomez
       Müller
       Schweinsteiger (pen)

Germany-Belgium 3-1
Özil       -Fellaini
Schürrle
Gomez

1.Germany    10 10 0 0 34-7   30
-------------------------------- 
2.Turkey     10  5 2 3 13-11  17
-------------------------------- 
3.Belgium    10  4 3 3 21-15  15 
4.Austria    10  3 3 4 16-17  12 
5.Azerbaijan 10  2 1 7 10-26   7 
6.Kazakhstan 10  1 1 8  6-24   4 

Fixtures:

Saturday 9/6 20.45 CET

Germany-Portugal

Wednesday 13/6 20.45 CET

Netherlands-Germany

Sunday 17/6 20.45 CET

Denmark-Germany

With a good last World Cup, a perfect qualification and a really strong squad Germany are named amongs the main favourites to win the tournmant. And you can't really argue with that- despite the really tough group they got I also belive that they'll win this tournament. Come on!

Only 2 forwards?

Yeah but look at the midfield options Ozil, Podolski and Muller and that's not even half

Aye that's true!

Only 2 forwards?

Reus is probably the third forward. Podolski, Müller and Schürrle can play forward as well.

I think it was the right decision to kick Cacau. Only Helmes could have been a good additional option.

What happened agaisnt Switzerland? I know there was no Bayern players involved.

What happened agaisnt Switzerland? I know there was no Bayern players involved.

Kind of answered your own question there, Dave.

Must of been more to it. Still a pretty decent side

Must of been more to it. Still a pretty decent side

Basically Löw did not play a defensiv/holding midfielder. Götze who isn't really fit and Khedira who did not bother to defend formed the central midfield. Switzerland exploited that and played good counter attacks.

Furthermore the team was exhausted because of the intense trainings sessions. It was a horrible performance.

In general I don't have a very good feeling. Some players lacking fitness (Klose, Götze, Mertesacker, Schweinsteiger) and some (Khedira, Özil) look tired. And Löw won't react to poor form, he will play his favourites nevertheless.

Genuinely hope Löw takes a chance on Gómez and starts him against Portugal. On his day, he's one of the best strikers in the world. I know Miro is a hero and I actually love the man, but he's been pretty poor for the last couple of seasons now. Does he really have one more tournament in him? I'm not entirely convinced...

King Klose has done well at Lazio.

Him being poor in the 09/10 season for Bayern didn't have a bearing on his NT form at the WC (and generally his club form doesn't affect his awesomeness in a Deutschland kit)

He's been alright at Lazio, but I still believe Mario deserves it more than he does. 41 goals and he doesn't even get a look in? Mental stuff.

[video=youtube;jTPxpKdIzyo]

[video=youtube;MaYqb6uWip8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaYqb6uWip8

However, you didn't show that it needed 463 chances for him to score each goal

Hope Miro stays healthy and fit for the next WC

I'm moving to Bremen this fall, so it's time I supported Germany in a tournie.

Reus is probably the third forward. Podolski, Müller and Schürrle can play forward as well.

I think it was the right decision to kick Cacau. Only Helmes could have been a good additional option.

Cacau shoul never been called up in the first place. He's past his prime and has had a bad season for Stuttgart where he lost his starting place to Ibisevic. I think Löw make a good choice not to take more strikers. But if one more should be included, I'd prefer Kiessling and not Helmes

Genuinely hope Löw takes a chance on Gómez and starts him against Portugal. On his day, he's one of the best strikers in the world. I know Miro is a hero and I actually love the man, but he's been pretty poor for the last couple of seasons now. Does he really have one more tournament in him? I'm not entirely convinced...

That's what I thought before the last WC too. And Löw proved me wrong! Klose is magical for Die Nationalef and should start, especially as he actually has had a very good season in Italy

Klose i thought had done well at Lazio despite the injuries has he not?

Anyway, glad Cacau aint been taken, we have so many better options if we had to take someone else, id even take Schipplock ahead of flipping Cacau! But Helmes, Kiessling, they have both had decent seasons, for Helmes of course, the second part once he was given a chance to play.

But in the squad there are plenty of offensive options, Schürrle, Müller etc, certainly shouldnt be a problem.

I just think we´re lacking defensively, one place we were normally fairly solid in, but Schmelzer, despite being a Dortmunder, doesnt fulfill me with confidence, so i do hope Lahm plays left back.

Good luck here guys. I fear you all so much, I will seriously **** my pants 13 June. I'd rather play Spain if the choice was up to me.

Good luck here guys. I fear you all so much, I will seriously **** my pants 13 June. I'd rather play Spain if the choice was up to me.

Marco Reus to make the starting 11 somehow please!

Just saw this - Lars has made it into the squad over Sven? I always rated Sven higher.

Massive bump.

Is Gotze going to play or is that injury still troubling him?

He won't be a starter. Even without his injury it would have been difficult for him.

Shame, looks like Modric is coming into my Fantasy midfield.

Fussballgott

(would still have Miro over him for the rest of the tournament)

Germany had a lot more trouble creating chances than I though they would have. They won because of outstanding defending (MoM Hummels IMO), not because of flowing attacks or counters. Delighted with the win, even though it puts my first team in dire trouble.

I wonder if the Germans are going to rely on counter purely against Holland or will still try to dominate. A draw would suit them just fine.

I wonder if the Germans are going to rely on counter purely against Holland or will still try to dominate. A draw would suit them just fine.

I don't think Germany are already flexibel enough to completely switch concepts for every game. Löw wants to play possesion football in general and I can't see him drop it just because the circumstances may prompt a different type of football.

However Löw won't forbid counter attacks especially against your shaky defence.

In a way, that should give us hope. Provided we attack, we might be able to score goals. Hoping for a match like Czech Republic - Holland back when. Only with us winning of course

Chances are we'll run straight into the open knife though. Germany are far, far better at counter attack at the moment than Holland. That friendly match in Hamburg showed that quite clearly. I give us no more of a 30% chance of winning at the moment.

I think you are too pessimistic. Our defence looked rock solid for ~80 minutes but especially the Portugese midfield was very defensive. It's relatively easy to stop Ronaldo and Nani if they don't get any support and I don't rate Helder Postiga. Our attack was really dire. It could have been easily a draw.

We were lucky and the Netherlands on the other hand a bit unlucky. [basically the good old times are back?]

But yeah it's a big advantage that Holland need to win. I give you 40%. I am really looking forward to this clash. Let's hope for some action.

If Miro starts, Germany win. If he doesn't, I see it being a 1-1 draw.

Fwiw, I think Germany still have that counter-attacking style from the WC in them as a sort of instinct but the change is that they're comfortable with possession too (ie. when given the ball like yesterday as Portugal just sat back). I think yesterday was a cagey affair which is understandable from one of the favourites in a tournament opener and I can only see Germany going from strength to strength as the tournament progresses. It would also help if Poldi got his shooting boots on

Poldi scores one in every other game (almost)...so thats 1 against the Dutch, Klose hopefully starts, thats another 1..... Oh if only!!

But I guess the advantage we got is that the Dutch have to win and have to do everything to win and we can afford to draw, which means, if they aint scored by the 70th minute or so, they have to give everything and throw the kitchen sink at us, which hopefully opens up all sorts of gaps.

I thought defensively Portugal did really well to contain the German attacks and thats what the Dutch need to do if they want to win, its just their CB pairing imo are not as good as Portugals, should be a cracker nevertheless!

What I'm really afraid of, is that we're going to attack gung-ho from the start and immediately get a counter in. If that happens, we're dead.

On the other hand, if we persist playing this patiently holding the ball and we'll score eventually game, that we'll never get close to the German goal.

We're gonna need the luck we didn't have against Denmark. An early goal by any means necessary, a silly card or two against the German defense, anything that rattles the German confidence. But as said earlier, I think we're basically done for.

A draw is likely the best we can do, then have to win against Portugal and depend on how the other matches pan out.

technically we are allowed to lose to the Germans, if Portugal wins.

But if that happens, Germany would no longer have much of an incentive to win the 3rd match and might rest players, and Denmark might pick up the one point that sees them through.

I'm really nervous about Wednesday. It's going to tense. I too fear for the scenario DJ depicts; Holland attacking like mad men and Germany easily countering themselves to an early goal.

What would make the group incredibly interesting going into the last games is if Germany lose and Portugal beat Denmark so all three sides are on 3 pts but I can't see that happening

i think a manager would be wary of changing things too much. tournaments are about momentum. and i suspect winning teams try to minimize changes.

What would make the group incredibly interesting going into the last games is if Germany lose and Portugal beat Denmark so all three sides are on 3 pts but I can't see that happening

For what it's worth, I believe we can easily loose to Portugal

But if that happens, Germany would no longer have much of an incentive to win the 3rd match and might rest players, and Denmark might pick up the one point that sees them through.

I'm really nervous about Wednesday. It's going to tense. I too fear for the scenario DJ depicts; Holland attacking like mad men and Germany easily countering themselves to an early goal.

Which is what we're hoping for

Well, hopefully Poldi will play......it would mark is 100th cap for Germany, which I think is a fantastic achievement for a player of his age, certainly should see a few more come his way too!

Even better if he plays and scores!

He was still a bit invisible in the last two matches, this is a good opportunity for him to get firing.

He was still a bit invisible in the last two matches, this is a good opportunity for him to get firing.

Certainly agree with you DJ, he hasnt come up trumps yet, but I think thats a good thing, rather have him quiet in the group stage and come alight if we get through.

Should get through tonight but anything can happen!

Well, hopefully Poldi will play......it would mark is 100th cap for Germany, which I think is a fantastic achievement for a player of his age, certainly should see a few more come his way too!

This always makes me think he's much older than he really is, I keep thinking he's well into his 30's because he's been in the German team for so long.

He's had something like 2 WCs and 3 Euros? Not shabby for a 27 year old

He's been rather anonymous in the tournament so far and hopefully he'll start playing in the knockout rounds

So what are people's general impressions?

Personally I somewhat disappointed, as once again Germany failed when it really matters. After the game I had my doubts in Löw but after some concidering, I guess the right thing is to give him two years more. I can't really see other suitable candidates for the job and generally he has done a good job over the years with reinventing the German team. But if they don't win the next World Cup, then it's time to let him go

As a Dutch I started this EC with a slight natural (unfounded) dislike towards to German team (even though I love Germans and Germany). I kinda see Germany as our 'big brother' and you never want you're big brother to beat you or to do better then yourself. After this tournament Germany certainly suprised me, not so much by their football. But most of all by their attitude, Gomez and Müller being enormously respectful towards us Dutch, and also Löw, a coach for whom I had already a great respect, said some wise things about the Holland - Germany rivalry. We lost with no chance 1-2 and I kinda thought during the match that Germany only played at 50% or so. But all by all it hit me that the German national team has changed, other generation of players and other characters. Next to that it is of course pretty hypocrite to love Germany and Germans as a country and people but dislike their national team. And even though the animosity against Germany in soccer is still there among Dutch I feel it is chancing a lot. To break the spell for good I bought myself a shirt of the German team with Götze on the back. Of course some friends immediately started joking with 'mof' and 'NSB' but that all part of it I guess.

As the tournament continued I even really started to hope that Germany would win. The semi's against Italy for me was a big suprise. Germany was not playing well at all and I did not understand Löw's decisions to start with Gomez, Müller and Kroos instead of Klose, Reus en Schürrle. Germany again lost in the semi's and I am wondering if they are infected with the syndrome the Dutch always have. Getting far, playing well, but not winning. I was also suprised by the media in Germany, it again reminded me of Holland. Most Dutch people and especially the media have such a freaking arrogant and chauvinistic attitude and prognostic that I personally sometimes almost get disgusted by it. I felt the same thing among the German media this year. It was almost if many Germans expected to win the title, or at least get into the final, and that was also a thing I felt during Italy - Germany. The team looked like if they were not 100% focussed, I've seen Hummels make mistakes I have never seen him make before. Schweini was again awefull, Boateng was not good, the whole right side of the field lay open for the first half, manly because of the tactical decisions Löw made. I fear for Germany with their change of play and players through the years they lost also a big part of their previous strengh:the will to win. The 100% focus and concentration. It is almost if they are leaning too much on their technical skills and fogetting that for 50% a match need to be won mentally.

It has to happen for Germany in 2014 or 2016, if not al these current players probably had their best years and a great (maybe the best ever) generation is wasted. And I think that would be a big big lost and shame.