Setting Up Your Backroom Staff

As I sit here playing through my clubs Pre-Season, I though this would be the ideal time to discuss setting up your backroom staff. This Pre-Season I have decided to overhaul my backroom staff, having recently lost a good coach to another club and having left them alone more or less for the past few seasons. Much of what I write here is speculation, but speculation based on the assumption that the huge quantities of information involved in backroom staff must mean something.

It is possible that a lot of the ideas I put forward in this thread don't actually work ingame, but based on what I see ingame I am confident they do work, and if they do work then brilliant. Either way if you follow the advice in this thread you can be confident of having a well organised, well structured, well set up backroom team.

The Panel

As far as I am concerned "the panel" is the holy grail of backroom staff info. If a staff member can offer up awesome advice on Man Management and Training then logically he must be a good Man Manager and Trainer. While this panel says "advice" you should take it to equal "ability" and this is what I do.

What this means is that you can see in a glance the rough quality of a staff member, the end result of the relationship between his attributes. Turn your screen to this panel and use the left and right arrows to cycle between staff members and you can see the true strengths and weaknesses of all the staff at your club in a flash. "The Panel" is the greatest tool you have for developing and improving your backroom staff, it should quickly become your best friend and a point of regular reference for this part of the game. What's more, you can see this panel for prospective staff members. Got a chap in mind for your Ass Man? Make sure you check out The Panel before you sign him.

Backroom Advice

While The Panel says "backroom advice" the truth of the matter is twofold: first The Panel reflects ability and secondly Backroom advice will often consist of a single piece of advice based on two or more of these general abilities. Club Players knowledge is obviously a key ability to give accurate Man Management or Squad Management advice, likewise with accurate Mentoring advice. This means it is wise to look for abilities in The Panel that are mutually beneficial. Club Players Knowledge + Recruitment, Squad Management + Man Management, Recruitment + Tactical, Tactical + Club Players Knowledge + Squad Management and so on.

A trully crucial issue in Backroom Advice is that the best man for the job gives the advice while the Ass Man or second best man gives his opinion on the advice. This means that some obscure foreign Youth Set Piece coach on £750 a week at Manchester United could well pop up with a Tactical Observation that is the key to beating Chelsea away from home.

It also means the manager of Manchester United should not just be looking for awesome Coaches to train his players, but awesome Coaches that each have an additional area of expertise for backroom advice. This is a key issue and I will give it more attention further on.

First Team Coach, Coach, Youth Team Coach

What is the difference between these roles? A First Team Coach only works with first team players, a Youth Team Coach only works with youngsters, a Coach can work with all players. And so can your Ass Man.

What are the ingame features that correspond to this difference? Working With Youngsters attribute and Coach Workload.

The existence of the Youth Team Coach role and Working with Youngsters attribute clearly points to the fact that this matters. So I assume it does. It might not, I can't prove it, but the evidence points in that direction so I follow it. Likewise with the First Team Coach.

There is a crucial issue that defines how I use these roles. Coaches and Staff can develop like players. They have CA and PA and seem to develop according to the roles you give them.

With all this in mind my strategy is as follows:

The most important thing bar none in your job is the First Team. A Youth Team can be awesome but never at the expense of your First Team. The best coaches in my club are those taking my individual First Team Training and they are First Team coaches and I do not share them with the Youth Team.

The Youth Team coaches are all excellent at working with youngsters. This is a given, they are all also as good as I can find at training the different areas of the game. Most importantly though they are all young and cheap to employ, I am developing my Youth Team Staff for future excellence like I would develop a Youth Team Player.

My Coaches are people not quite good enough to take First Team Coaching, but I am keeping them around the club. They may be able to offer great advice, or they may be developing still, or perhaps they are a Youth Team or Reserve Team Manager. These Coaches involve themselves in Youth Team and First Team coaching to reduce the Workload experienced by my key coaches.

Simple, but highly effective.

Youth/Reserve Team Manager

These Staff Members are the ones that manage your Youth Team and Reserve Team matches. There are two key points here: Good results improve your players, Experience improves your Staff Members. Taking the Youth or Reserve Team is the fastest way to develop your Staff Members.

This gives the average FM manager a headache, but it gives the good FM manager another exciting and interesting area of management. The below average FM manager isn't even remotely bothered about this, probably unaware of it. In my personal backroom staff strategy this is the ideal way to boost General Coaches into the realms of First Team coaching, or on the contrary with a great intake of youth it is the time for my Ass Man to step in and make sure these players develop as good as possible under his expert guidance.

My strategy here is again simple:

Because staff members have long careers as staff the odd season off here and there from maximum development hardly matters. Therefore with an average Youth Team I give these staff members control and with an epic Youth Team I switch control to my best match winner. Pay a bit of attention to what is happening at your club, and make it simple for yourself. Is this current youth team something you gain the most from by developing your staff or by developing the players? Keep in mind that the developing staff should one day be boosting your First Team which is the utter core of your job.

Random Musings/Assumptions

This is the part where I speculate wildly but also describe some of the deeper strategies I employ when building my backroom staff.

A club that laughs together wins together.

When working with mates you respect you enjoy work better and follow their instructions better.

Training Star level only controls speed of category change.

These three rather wild assumptions form the core of my backroom staff recruitment strategy. Despite being a Manchester United manager this could easilly be called "The Liverpool Way" or perhaps more accurately the Shankly way.

My strategy is that Man Management and Motivation in staff members is crucial to maintaining and even improving player morale as they train. Likewise a well trained 4 star training squad being trained by their favoured personell will train better and perform better than a poorly trained 5 star squad trained by Ogres. Morale on a match by match basis is infinately superior to Training on a match by match basis. Over the long term yes Training matters, but in the short term Morale and Man Management is equal only to Tactics.

Therefore my backroom staff strategy is to sign the coaches and staff with the best Motivation and Man Management ratings alongside their training ability, ideally to sign the best of my ex-players as coaches even if their training ability is less than perfect. So long as they have good Man Management and Motivating I would rather have 4 star Giggs, Scholes and Neville training my first team than 5 star random others.

So long as the star ratings only affect speed of change then I can easilly control the training effect of my staff, but I can never a sign a Coach that half my First Team has as favoured personell.

I will easilly sacrifice a training star or two to have a club legend training players effectively rather than perfectly, because I believe Favoured Personell matters in terms of Morale.

Ofcourse, in FM10 atleast, all retiring players have a Staff CA of 130 which is horrific, thus your retired players have to be specialist to be useful at all.

Conclusion

While star level in training matters, if you can build good schedules with your coach training ability in mind then I don't think star level matters that much. On the other hand hopefully I have shown that you backroom staff is significantly more important than considering star ratings. Backroom staff is a nice and deep part of this awesome game. Not the deepest and most mind bending but deep enough.

And hopefully this thread has shown that doesn't require epic complexity to make the most of all the options Staff Members may offer, it just requires a bit of attention to detail and some fairly logical thinking.

It's not hard to set up your backroom staff to the best of all possible outcomes, indeed those that love this game should enjoy it. Try it for yourself and let me know how you get on.

And never forget "The Panel".

Fantastic thread with a lot to think about. Some really interesting comments/observations in here, particularly about how to choose the specific coaching role(s) for your staff and how you should be looking to develop your staff the same way that you look to develop your players.

Well done as always!

Hi SFraser, Good read as always.

I´m off to sort my backroom staff out at Wrexham.. Which brings out a question; I would love to hear your thoughts on staff employment with a lower league/non league club with limited amount of coaches.

Let´s take Wrexham as an example

Season 2010-11 They are playing in BSP, Board are allowing you to have staff as follows:

Assman 1

Coach 3

GK coach 1

Physio 1

Scout 3

All the rest stands as 0 (Fitness, 1st team, Youth)

An interesting read SFraser

However I've noticed this is a distinct change of philosophy to last season's thread in which you used general coaches to coach the individual disciplines and the AsMan, 1st Team Coach and Youth Coaches to cover all of the categories as motivators:

Personally, as Manchester United, I have from Assistant to Physio level 16 individual staff members and 12 scouts.

I have 1 Assistant Manager, 1 First Team Coach, 6 Coaches, 2 Goalkeeping Coaches, 3 Fitness Coaches and 3 physios.

My Assistant is my "Club Psychologist" and participates in every Training Schedule in every Squad. My First Team Coach is similar, but he does not involve himself with Youth Team schedules and instead take Reserve and Youth Team Matches. Otherwise I have 3 Fitness coaches for 2 Fitness regimes in both squads, 2 Goalkeeping coaches for 1 goalkeeping Category in both squads, and 6 coaches for 6 other Categories in both squads. Plus 3 physios.

I bring this up because I was following that thread and am now wondering if the theories presented within must have been disproved at some point?

Especially since there were several replies supporting your theories therein, and even contradicting your current technique:

I have had many bad results from assigning my First Team Coach and Assistant Manager to train individual categories and have observed drops in attributes accross the board. This leads me to believe that the category assignments for these more responsible staff positions should be more general/managerial/over-seeing (ie. assigned to all training categories) and preference given for Reserve/Youth team management. This would appear to agree with SFrasers suggestions in the OP.

It's not that much of a difference. I still have my ass man + two General Coaches covering all areas of training as Motivators, but the difference this time is that I am keeping proven coaches purely to coach First Team training and using my Youth Team training areas as a place to "test out" and develop unproven coaches.

So last season while I had say three staff members involved in all areas, I still have three. Last season my single Ball Control coach took both First Team and Youth Team training, this season I have two Ball Control coaches, one is established and doing First Team training, the other is young and developing and looks like he has potential and is taking Youth Team training.

This minor detail means several things. First workload is reduced for each specific coach, second I always have a backup available if someone pinches a coach, third I am in control of the future development of my backroom staff. I can plan and plot and develop future First Team coaches from within my own ranks.

This is where I sign the recently retired Gary Neville and plant him to do some training work. If he accepts a youth team coach role I have to pay him less and I can keep an eye on him to see if he develops as a coach. If he turns out to be rubbish, well that little experiment costs me less wages and I can replace him with whoever retires next.

I have independently arrived at a very similar set-up.

- Proven coaches assigned to a single First Team discipline in either a First Team Coach or Coach role and given no involvement with the youth team.

- Promising, young coaches assigned to the Youth disciplines.

The only difference is I have a single 'motivator' providing additional cover for all the First Team disciplines (Name: J. Tous, Personality: Driven, Man Management 95% - in case you want to check him out!). Had him in FM10 and now in FM11.

So long as the training load is light I don't see the need for additional motivators but I'm willing to hear reasoning for doing otherwise.

I'd like a 'motivator' for my youth team too but cannot find anyone suitable just yet.

My preference is to have one specialized coach for each training category, and an assman who is strong in man-management and motivating skills to oversee all the training categories (which also results in 2 coaches per category thus ensuring light workloads). By doing this in senior and youth schedules, all the categories are deemed light even though each coach is training seniors and youth.

SFraser, do you think there is anything that makes this approach less than optimal?

My preference is to have one specialized coach for each training category, and an assman who is strong in man-management and motivating skills to oversee all the training categories (which also results in 2 coaches per category thus ensuring light workloads). By doing this in senior and youth schedules, all the categories are deemed light even though each coach is training seniors and youth.

SFraser, do you think there is anything that makes this approach less than optimal?

In terms of Coaching alone, no. One specialised coach per training category plus an Assistant strong in man management and motivating involved in all coaching categories is something I would consider "optimal".

However you didn't mention Backroom Advice nor Youth and Reserve Team Management. If I was setting up a group of backroom staff (and had heaps of cash and a high rep club) I would want to maximise these areas as well. Even if I don't particularly follow all backroom advice, if I am going to be getting it anyway I would want it to be good.

So here is how I would work it:

Coaches. The primary aim of coaches is to train. Their advice is a bonus.

Assistant. Yours is already high in Man Management, and likely also Squad Management Advice. His role is motivating players during training.

Youth/Reserve Managers. This leaves essentially two jobs and four areas of Backroom Advice, or two Areas of Backroom Advice per job. I would specifically head-hunt "experts" in Tactical, Recruitment, Training and Youth Development advice and install these people as my Youth and Reserve Managers. Clearly these individuals are likely to cost a lot of money as you will want them to offer the best advice while also being highly effective at actually managing a football match.

So simply by adding to your backroom staff by an additional two extremely good coaches you can be confident of not only nailing the training side, but also the advice and youth/reserve team management side. If you can't find the perfect individuals then you may want to hire a few more coaches but ideally the overall "optimal" backroom staff should look something like this:

Assistant : Skilled in Man Management/Squad Management (ideally, but others may have different needs).

Reserve Team Manager : Skilled in Tactics and Perhaps Recruitment.

Youth Team Manager : Skilled in Training, Youth Development.

First Team Coaches for all Categories.

Youth Team Coaches for all Categories.

SFraser, I am curious to know whether you think Nationality plays much of a part in Coaching, apart from a language issue.

From a general point of view it is widely agreed that players from different nationalities carry with them a particular style which is associated with the nation they have come from.

So from a coaching perspective, would there be common traits or a style that could also be prevalent from nation to nation.

SFraser, I am curious to know whether you think Nationality plays much of a part in Coaching, apart from a language issue.

From a general point of view it is widely agreed that players from different nationalities carry with them a particular style which is associated with the nation they have come from.

So from a coaching perspective, would there be common traits or a style that could also be prevalent from nation to nation.

I think that is true but I also think it is much deeper than that. Not only do staff members from different nationalities carry particular styles but they also seem to carry particular "stereotypical" abilities. Also a staff members playing career seems to have a significant impact on the style of football they prefer to play.

I will give you a couple of examples:

The Italians at my club almost all tend to be very tactically aware, whereas all the Scots at my club seem to be good at Motivating and Man Management. Some individuals buck these trends, but I can see a trend in my club. This may not be indicative across the entire game, it might be a "fluke" but it does seem quite remarkable.

Of the players that have retired from the playing staff at my club and have joined the coaching staff at my club, all of them prefer to use 4-4-2 which is no surprise playing first under Alex Ferguson and then myself in the English Premier League. Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes both prefer to play an aggressive attacking 4-4-2 with high closing down and mixed marking. Gary Neville prefers a cautious 4-4-2 with mixed pressing and man marking. Edwin van der Sar prefers a cautious 4-4-2 with mixed pressing and zonal marking.

Edwin van der Sar is a 4 star Goalkeeping Coach, Neville is a 4 star defending coach, Giggs is a 4 star ball control coach, Scholes is a 4 star attacking coach.

This is pretty spectacular when you think about it. Players directly translate into coaches in multiple ways. Not only does player ability reflect coaching ability but player ability and player experience and player position also translates into preferred playing styles. The coaches that were once my most defensive players all opt for defensive variations of the systems they played under and played against most often, while the attacking players opt for the attacking approach. Not only that but the particular style of the attacking or defensive version reflects their own personal tastes. Neville opts for a pure man marking system, van der Sar for a pure zonal marking system but both like to keep mixed closing down, whereas both Scholes and Giggs opt for high pressing and mixed marking, reflecting their personal knowledge of the defensive game (i.e. minimal so put the opponent under pressure).

However it is in the Italians at my club, again, that I see the most "inventive" styles of football. Instead of a clear and obvious defensive or attacking approach to 4-4-2 my Italian assistant manager prefers an ultra cautious 4-4-2 with high pressing in a zonal marking system. This is not the "back off and defend the zones" of van der Sar or the "pressure and attack" of Scholes, it is a "sit deep and pressure" 4-4-2 style that I don't see in any of my English or Scottish First Team Coaches.

The only coach that I can see, at a cursory glance through my staff list, that departs from the 4-4-2 trend is my recently signed Italian Youth Coach. He prefers a 4-3-3 and was poached from an Italian club where he worked under a manager that preferred the formation 4-3-1-2.

I think that there is certainly a lot in this area of the game. Selecting Youth/Reserve Team managers whose style more reflects your own style of play is likely to give much better clues as to how players will perform in your First Team Squad.

Hi SFraser,

Interesting advice and overview, though detailled, regarding backroom staff. I have some suggestions/questions (lacking a better term) for you as I focus as well on morale management with training and coaches. Please keep in mind I didn't prove anything or have special insight into the game, maybe what I am doing is useless, overcomplication or could be easily dismissed because of very low impact. Anyways, it can not be bad I guess, just more difficult to look for.

So besides pure training attributes (read star rating here) and motivating/management skills I try to look, if I can afford it, at the personality of the coach, he should blend with squad personality. Note that I don't try directly to fit coach with other coach in an ambitious staff for example, but as a result of my squad being ambitious so I sign ambitious coaches to match up with. In the hope of them becoming favored personel for some of my players as well. I don't have much success with, but using the "coach recommandation" private chat option should be useful in that case, a few time players came up with a name, I signed the guy and everybody is happy . Because of this I tend to think personality actually matters.

My next point is closely related to the first, I think language issue you guys have brought up should matter as well for building strong relationship between coaches and players. If possible, I try to sign coaches speaking the same language than the country I am managing in. If he doesn't speak the language, then I look at adaptability attributes. If it will take ages for him to settle in his new country, then I pick someone else, if he is able to deal with it quickly then it is not a problem in the medium-long run.

Of course, all the above is only when you can afford too choose among coaches, in LL you usually don't have enough coach spot, money, reputation to do all of this.

My next point is closely related to the first, I think language issue you guys have brought up should matter as well for building strong relationship between coaches and players. If possible, I try to sign coaches speaking the same language than the country I am managing in. If he doesn't speak the language, then I look at adaptability attributes. If it will take ages for him to settle in his new country, then I pick someone else, if he is able to deal with it quickly then it is not a problem in the medium-long run.

I agree with your general point but I think that there is more than one way to skin this particular cat. And there is anecdotal evidence to back up this particular line of discussion even if not to prove it.

While it is entirely valid to go down the route of refusing to sign individuals that don't speak the same language to avoid any settling in problems, I have seen plenty of evidence to support the opposite approach. The opposite approach would be constructing a highly "multicultural" or "metropolitan" club where there is one common language but there is also large numbers of people speaking many other languages as well.

Clearly this is only going to be an approach open to a few clubs in the entire game but I have reason to believe this approach actually works to reduce "settling in" problems. I will explain my reasoning.

1: Everyone will have seen the "new signing press conference" question where the journalist asks you if not speaking the common language will be a problem, and then asks if X player who speaks the new signings language will be used to help out.

This indicates two things. One that languages actually matter and probably matter a lot. Two that other people in your club that speak a similar language to a new signing can help him settle.

2: My own "Domestic Player Bias" manager stat is a princely 2. This again means several things, one that I buy a lot of "foreign" players and two that I keep a lot of "foreign" players.

In the five seasons of my save that it has taken me to achieve this might "2" rating I have never once had a problem with a player being unable to settle, regardless of who I bought and quite clearly I must buy a vast majority of non-domestic players.

Either I am exceptionally lucky in always buying players that find it easy to settle in a foreign country, or the vast amount of foreign languages spoken at my club make it significantly easier for players to settle at my club.

I think the latter is the more likely.

In terms of Coaching alone, no. One specialised coach per training category plus an Assistant strong in man management and motivating involved in all coaching categories is something I would consider "optimal".

However you didn't mention Backroom Advice nor Youth and Reserve Team Management. If I was setting up a group of backroom staff (and had heaps of cash and a high rep club) I would want to maximise these areas as well. Even if I don't particularly follow all backroom advice, if I am going to be getting it anyway I would want it to be good.

So here is how I would work it:

Coaches. The primary aim of coaches is to train. Their advice is a bonus.

Assistant. Yours is already high in Man Management, and likely also Squad Management Advice. His role is motivating players during training.

Youth/Reserve Managers. This leaves essentially two jobs and four areas of Backroom Advice, or two Areas of Backroom Advice per job. I would specifically head-hunt "experts" in Tactical, Recruitment, Training and Youth Development advice and install these people as my Youth and Reserve Managers. Clearly these individuals are likely to cost a lot of money as you will want them to offer the best advice while also being highly effective at actually managing a football match.

So simply by adding to your backroom staff by an additional two extremely good coaches you can be confident of not only nailing the training side, but also the advice and youth/reserve team management side. If you can't find the perfect individuals then you may want to hire a few more coaches but ideally the overall "optimal" backroom staff should look something like this:

Assistant : Skilled in Man Management/Squad Management (ideally, but others may have different needs).

Reserve Team Manager : Skilled in Tactics and Perhaps Recruitment.

Youth Team Manager : Skilled in Training, Youth Development.

First Team Coaches for all Categories.

Youth Team Coaches for all Categories.

SFraser,

With the Youth Team manager and the Assistant Manager do you have these two coaches also invloved in training? Or are they solely left to manage those two teams?

Mark, IIRC he has them also take one coaching schedule. What I do is have them oversee all the schedules, bringing superior man-management skills to add to the specialist coaches coaching skills.

Mark, IIRC he has them also take one coaching schedule. What I do is have them oversee all the schedules, bringing superior man-management skills to add to the specialist coaches coaching skills.

Oh ok, thanks for that. Actually I meant to ask if he has the Youth Team Manager and Reserve Team Manager involved but I assume it would be the same answer.

I think I might be missing something here. SFraser you suggest that we have a First Team Coach for each training category and a youth coach for each category as well. I'm playing as Arsenal and have a limit of 17 total coaches. If im to have a 1st and youth coach for eac category that means I would need at least 18 coaches in total right?

I think I might be missing something here. SFraser you suggest that we have a First Team Coach for each training category and a youth coach for each category as well. I'm playing as Arsenal and have a limit of 17 total coaches. If im to have a 1st and youth coach for eac category that means I would need at least 18 coaches in total right?

Any help on this? Im sure im overlooking something simple....

I count 8 categories.

GK

2 fitnes

Att

Def

Bal control

Shooting

Tactics

And GK and fitness trainers train both

Correct for FM11, but FM10 also had 'set pieces' as a schedule, didn't it?

Correct for FM11, but FM10 also had 'set pieces' as a schedule, didn't it?

Yes FM10 has 9 categories: Strength, Aerobic, Goalkeeping, Tactics, Ball Control, Defending, Attacking, Shooting and Set Pieces.

I count 8 categories.

GK

2 fitnes

Att

Def

Bal control

Shooting

Tactics

And GK and fitness trainers train both

Yeah so with 8 categories, I would want a First Team Coach and a Youth Team Coach for each, that would be 2 x Strength, 2x Aerobic, 2x Shot Stopping, 2x GK Handling, 2x Tactics, 2x Attacking, 2x Defense, 2x Ball Control and 2x Shooting. That makes 18 coaches.... I must be missing something here.

Very good post and an interesting read

Yeah so with 8 categories, I would want a First Team Coach and a Youth Team Coach for each, that would be 2 x Strength, 2x Aerobic, 2x Shot Stopping, 2x GK Handling, 2x Tactics, 2x Attacking, 2x Defense, 2x Ball Control and 2x Shooting. That makes 18 coaches.... I must be missing something here.

My interpretation is that 4 goalkeeping coaches would be overkill since you'd only have 2 or 3 goalkeepers in your senior and youth squads. Therefore, two GK coaches to take both senior and youth training would be sufficient. That logic wouldn't apply to 4 fitness training schedules since every player uses them.

My interpretation is that 4 goalkeeping coaches would be overkill since you'd only have 2 or 3 goalkeepers in your senior and youth squads. Therefore, two GK coaches to take both senior and youth training would be sufficient. That logic wouldn't apply to 4 fitness training schedules since every player uses them.

Ok thanks mate. Makes sense I guess, still a load of coaches!

And one other thing. What about the Coaches SFraser says to make you Reserve Team Coach and Youth Team Coach, do these fellas take any of the training schedules or just help out covering all?

When another club makes an offer to one of your prized coaches, offer him/her a new contract, add £100 to the requested wage and max out the length of the contract. Entering the sixth year of an FM10 save I have yet to lose anyone using this method (including Youth coaches offered 1st Team Coach at top clubs & management at lower EPL clubs). I may have been lucky and this might not be relevant to FM11, plus you need the cash to be able to keep doing it. But having gone to great lengths to find and procure the best Backroom staff your money can buy surely it's worth it.

Yes. In contrast to players, if you have a coach (or any backroom guy) you really want to keep, don't offer him the contract he wants; offer him the MAXIMUM amount and length that you can!

I found it too expensive to offer the maximum amount and after some trial & error found that adding £100 more than they want coupled with max length worked every time. But as I said I may just have been lucky. I did, however, get bored by the frequency of approaches for some of my staff (eg Giggs, Emerson and the like) that I had employed cheaply immediately on their retirement, so from time to time I would hike up their wage to match others at my club with comparable ratings and reputation, maybe a grand or two but a million miles from the maximum. This would stop it for a while and the occasional £100 extension was all that was needed. Once you have someone you do not want to lose there is no reason to ever offer less than max length contract, and on the up side if they do leave -and they will if you do nothing - the compensation is far higher.

Ah, if only Del Piero would stop insisting on being an ass man!

This is the most useful post I've ever read on this forum. IRL I've only been following soccer for about 5 years. I can watch my matches and make tactical adjustments and get decent results, but I was having serious trouble with training and motivation. After reading SFraser's OP and applying his suggestions to my teams in this game, I have noticed a world of difference. Morale is better, tactical decisons made by the players are much better, and my youth academy is actually now producing some talent. This game is much more fun when you're successful.

where the hell is valter di salvo in fm11? not in my freaking game.

Well writte and good insights as usual Sfraser among others.

Very helpful stuff.

I'm also for the whole 'multicultural' thing by the way and having staff and not only players from different nationalities who can speak different languages does indeed help other foreign players who you have or may buy in future settle in more easily.

where the hell is valter di salvo in fm11? not in my freaking game.

It could be dependant on which leagues you are running?

Fantastic post, another Gem. Well Done

This is an interesting thread! I've just started a new game and want to get the best out of my backroom staff. I've got a couple of questions.

I've got a scout who's got good attributes for one of the categories of training. He's pannel shows he's got good at training players as well. But he lacks severely in man management and discipline. My assistant looks like a good motivator and I will have him "overlook" each training category. Will this compensate for the scouts lacking attributes in the stats mentioned if I assign him as a coach/first team coach?

How much will a coach's playing style effect his training methods? I would believe it has a lot to say for a tactics coach, but for an attacking coach I do not see this has to much of an impact, regarding the player attributes covered by the attack category.

Again, a very interesting thread!

This is an interesting thread! I've just started a new game and want to get the best out of my backroom staff. I've got a couple of questions.

I've got a scout who's got good attributes for one of the categories of training. He's pannel shows he's got good at training players as well. But he lacks severely in man management and discipline. My assistant looks like a good motivator and I will have him "overlook" each training category. Will this compensate for the scouts lacking attributes in the stats mentioned if I assign him as a coach/first team coach?

How much will a coach's playing style effect his training methods? I would believe it has a lot to say for a tactics coach, but for an attacking coach I do not see this has to much of an impact, regarding the player attributes covered by the attack category.

Again, a very interesting thread!

1. Lack of man-management: not a problem is your assman is covering this.

2. Lack of discipline: that will hurt a bit. '' DDM' - determination, discipline and motivation all count as well as the coaching attributes towards the coach's effectiveness. If only the discipline is poor it may cost you half a star.

3. SFraser has more to say about this - me, I'm not at all sure.

Yes, the lack of discipline makes him less effective. Of the DDM attributes, discipline is the only one he's lacking in, and he's regarded as a 4 star coach.

I'd like to chip in another question. I've just signed some coaches as first team coaches, and their star rating does not relate to their attributes at all. Most of them achieve about 2, when 4 stars was expected. Does a coach have to be labeled a 1st team coach before you sign him to be able to work as a 1st team coach?

I've got a couple of examples. I signed Lemos Filho as a 1st team coach for taking care of ball control training. His attributes suggests he should be ranked as at least a 4,5 (probably 5) star coach in this category (from the stats he's got in my game). But he get's 2,5 when I assign him to the category.

I've signed Bernhard Peters as a 1st team coach for the tactics category. He get's the right rating when I assign him to this category. So he turned out as expected. He was appointed as an yout coach at his former club.

Any suggestions why I see these results?

What do you mean his attributes don't match up to his star rating? What is his training bar level in his Personal Profile?

Infact, do you have any screenshots?

What do you mean his attributes don't match up to his star rating? What is his training bar level in his Personal Profile?

Infact, do you have any screenshots?

Thank you for your answer. I've included a couple of screenshots of one of the coaches mentioned, Filho. His attributes suggest he should qualify as a 5 star coach in the ball control category, but he get 2,5 stars when I assign him there. The training bar is quite high as well.

Thank you for your answer. I've included a couple of screenshots of one of the coaches mentioned, Filho. His attributes suggest he should qualify as a 5 star coach in the ball control category, but he get 2,5 stars when I assign him there. The training bar is quite high as well.

Yeah it does look like he should be quite high.

How many players do you have training Ball Control at the moment? If you don't have many players training in a category it gives a low star rating. All my youth goalkeepers have become old enough to take Senior Training and so my four star Senior Goalkeeping Coaches have 2 stars for taking Youth Goalkeeping.

Just double check for me and make sure you actually have a decent amount of players taking Ball Control Training.

Yeah it does look like he should be quite high.

How many players do you have training Ball Control at the moment? If you don't have many players training in a category it gives a low star rating. All my youth goalkeepers have become old enough to take Senior Training and so my four star Senior Goalkeeping Coaches have 2 stars for taking Youth Goalkeeping.

Just double check for me and make sure you actually have a decent amount of players taking Ball Control Training.

Ouch, quite embarrassing by me I have my players on a pre season schedule and none of them are assigned to the ball control category at the moment. I should have understood that when the tactical coach I assigned turned out as expected, since tactics is a part of the pre season schedule. When I added ball control to the schedule Filho got 5 stars right away.

Thank you for your help!

It's caught me out a few times too.

Nice coach by the way, young too. Make sure no one pinches him.

Did you think it is a good idea to turn your veteran players into player /coaches so, that they can get an early start as coaches, even if they are an important part of your first team ?

Did you think it is a good idea to turn your veteran players into player /coaches so, that they can get an early start as coaches, even if they are an important part of your first team ?

Give them youth team roles and find out...

Did you think it is a good idea to turn your veteran players into player /coaches so, that they can get an early start as coaches, even if they are an important part of your first team ?

Give them youth team roles and find out...

Do players playing attributes decline quicker once their coaching ones appear? I've always steered clear of recommending my veteran players who still play regularly become coach in case this does happen to be the case.

Should I also tick use current match tactics because I am not sure If I should since this may limit the coaches ability since he may not have the necessary attributes to play may tactics ?

Give them youth team roles and find out...

The Fury strongly agrees with this advice

Should I also tick use current match tactics because I am not sure If I should since this may limit the coaches ability since he may not have the necessary attributes to play may tactics ?

Yes, I believe it helps them get used to your tactics. But if your best youths have positions that don't fit your tactics, they may not get picked to play until retrained to a compatible position. Check regularly and if this is happening, you could tick it every other match so they get some playing time.

It can actually be useful, when your coach plays someone regularly in an unfamilar position(because he doesn't fit into your tactic), it's a good indicator as to the way to go if you want to retrain him to a new position.

Do players playing attributes decline quicker once their coaching ones appear?.

I would also like to know.

Cheers

Do players playing attributes decline quicker once their coaching ones appear? I've always steered clear of recommending my veteran players who still play regularly become coach in case this does happen to be the case.

I don't think so, player CA and staff CA are separate things and I don't think they will influence each other.

So this is going to sound stupid but I'm curious anyways...

I have a team (was low-level, unplayable when FM10 started) now in its 6th year in EPL (year is 2050).... won league twice in a row now, and reputation still isn't that high (compared to united, west ham in my game has been dominant, man city). Its getting up there but still not ridiculous like the top teams in europe. I say this because most of my coaches are at minimum of national, most are continental and world class (I have bought from all-over the world, I think 4 of my coaches are from England, rest aren't). I say that because I don't really care about them becoming better, as they already are. So I don't need to worry about having rookies in youth team best in 1st team as they all could be in 1st team.

Anyways, all the teams in the game none of them have two assmans, they only have one. But then they have like 3 1st team coaches, 2 youth coaches, and then like 5 coaches. Should I have multiple assmans?

I have 26 spots available for coaches, and I have 1 assman, 3 1st team coaches, 3 youth team coaches, 2 fitness coaches, roughly 15 coaches (that are specialized per a category) and then like 2 spots left open. MY 1st team and Yth coaches all are general and cover all areas, and only the coaches and fitness coaches are specialized in certain areas.

I guess what I am asking is, if you have a large amount of coaches available, how do you displace them? Each position for senior AND youth have 4-5 coaches per position, so workload I can't imagine is that large.

Should I have multiple assmans? Have 7-8 1st team and 7-8 youth coaches? Then have 5-6 general coaches? Does it matter having one GK coach for 1st and one GK coach for youth? Or just have 2 that work with both?

I feel like I'm doing it wrong having so many coaches, but can't find another example of a club having so many specialized youth and 1st team coaches. They only have 10 total, and are split evenly...

So this is going to sound stupid but I'm curious anyways...

I have a team (was low-level, unplayable when FM10 started) now in its 6th year in EPL (year is 2050).... won league twice in a row now, and reputation still isn't that high (compared to united, west ham in my game has been dominant, man city). Its getting up there but still not ridiculous like the top teams in europe. I say this because most of my coaches are at minimum of national, most are continental and world class (I have bought from all-over the world, I think 4 of my coaches are from England, rest aren't). I say that because I don't really care about them becoming better, as they already are. So I don't need to worry about having rookies in youth team best in 1st team as they all could be in 1st team.

Anyways, all the teams in the game none of them have two assmans, they only have one. But then they have like 3 1st team coaches, 2 youth coaches, and then like 5 coaches. Should I have multiple assmans?

I have 26 spots available for coaches, and I have 1 assman, 3 1st team coaches, 3 youth team coaches, 2 fitness coaches, roughly 15 coaches (that are specialized per a category) and then like 2 spots left open. MY 1st team and Yth coaches all are general and cover all areas, and only the coaches and fitness coaches are specialized in certain areas.

I guess what I am asking is, if you have a large amount of coaches available, how do you displace them? Each position for senior AND youth have 4-5 coaches per position, so workload I can't imagine is that large.

Should I have multiple assmans? Have 7-8 1st team and 7-8 youth coaches? Then have 5-6 general coaches? Does it matter having one GK coach for 1st and one GK coach for youth? Or just have 2 that work with both?

I feel like I'm doing it wrong having so many coaches, but can't find another example of a club having so many specialized youth and 1st team coaches. They only have 10 total, and are split evenly...

Personally, I wouldn't be looking to compare my setup with any AI club.

Your setup is similar to mine except for one thing.............You have two empty slots??

If you are getting the results you are looking for, with the setup you have, then just go with it.