Pyramid - FM11 4-3-2-1

First off, many thanks to Mr Hough for inspiring me to create, test and publish this tactic. Those of you that followed this forum during FM10 will know all about his tactics and the huge amount of effort and time he put into his tactics. Dave – we salute you!

Pyramid is a 4-3-2-1 tactic, this is a formation that the aforementioned Mr Hough has given his thumbs up to as a possible FM11 starting point with direct passing. So I thought I’d have a go at it.

Original testing was carried out using Man City as a strong side. This enabled me to test using quality players so that I was focusing on getting the tactic right rather than fighting to get players to do what I want. Also, I had already played a number of games in the demo with Man City trying out various published tactics, so I had a reasonable idea of the results I was looking for. I played through 7 or so games, tweaked the tactic and then reloaded the start position and played the games again. This process was done a few times until I was happy. Testing is now underway on a ‘lesser’ team. No offence Hartlepool fans! EDIT: Things going suspiciously well so far.

The Aim

What are we looking for in a tactic?

We all look for something a bit different, whether it’s flowing football, clean sheets or goal fests. However, there’s one thing that we’re all after – silverware, and for that we need consistent wins. So whilst testing the tactic I’m interested in a solid mix of all the ingredients needed for a victory. We want to see our side create plenty of chances, a good proportion of which should be clear cut chances. We want the opposition limited to less than a third of the chances that our team creates and we want our side to force a high proportion of those into being long shots. We want more than 50% of the possession, with most of that possession being in the opposition half. If we tick most of those boxes then bingo! We’ll score more than we concede and we'll win more often than we lose.

The Philosphy

So, how are we going to fill our trophy cabinet?

First things first. Defence. Just ask Alan Hansen what makes a great team and he’ll tell you (after muttering something about “Woeful, absolutely woeful… he had time to smoke a cigar…”) that all successful teams are built on a solid defence. But then again he also said that Manchester United would never win anything with kids like Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles and Beckham.

Our back four are going to be just that – ie at the back... and errr four of them. For the first time in a tactic I’m going to tell the fullbacks to stay back as part of a flat back four. The philosophy for the defence is quite separate to the philosophy for the rest of the team. I want a defence reminiscent of the great Arsenal back four of years gone by. They knew their roles were to form a barrier in front of the goal line. None of this poncing down the wing to see what the opposition goalie looks like. Defenders – know your place!

In midfield there’s only the lone MC. We’re going to be dangerously exposed in the centre if he starts wandering off, so we need him to sit in the middle anchoring the play. Win the ball then distribute it. Don’t head towards the touchline and don’t get curious about the penalty spot. As for the wide midfielders, quite the opposite is needed. Start off deep, then hug that touchline and get forward when you can.

Now for the interesting bit. The forward line. Two attacking midfielders in the hole, with a lone striker ahead of them. Our chief aim here is to cause chaos in the opposition defence. We want to make it difficult for them to pick our runs up, and we need to hit them in numbers to make man marking impossible. The key to the forward three lies in the AMCR. He’s a trequartista which is a fancy way of saying that he’s free to do what he wants. Now I’m not the biggest fan of Wayne Rooney but take a look at the highlights of England v Bulgaria at http://www.thefa.com/video/England/Mens-Seniors/2010/Bulgaria/England-4-0-Bulgaria . He drops deeper than usual, and in the second half he’s almost playing as a conventional central midfielder at times, but mostly he’s playing the ‘Paul Scholes’ role, ie he sits between midfield and attack where neither midfielders nor defenders want to mark him for fear they’ll get caught out of position. The result is utter carnage. It’s Rooney that has space to play the ball into the box for the first goal, and in the second half all three goals are the result of a Rooney assist. This is my inspiration for the AMCR. He’s the primary playmaker for the team.

As for the lone striker, I toyed with a tweaked “Complete Forward” for him but have decided on “Advanced Forward” with few tweaks. This role could be changed to suit your best forward, depending on whether his strength is pace or aerial. Have a play.

The Formation

4-3-2-1

Positions

Generally, I’m a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” guy. In other words, I leave the settings on their default unless I have a reason to change them.

Goalkeeper

Self Explanatory. Set ‘Roam From Position’ to Yes if you want to relive some of those classic 1970’s comedy howlers, otherwise LEAVE IT ALONE.

Fullbacks

Left and right have the same settings. Both are set to defend. I’ve been generally happy with them so far and so have not tweaked anything.

Centrehalves

The DCR is set to Limited Defender/Defend. He’s the “in case of emergency, hoof it out” guy. He’s your more defensive minded centre half. I would tend towards placing your player with the higher marking/tackling/positioning here.

Key Attribs - Marking, Tackling, Determination, Positioning, Jumping, Strength

The DCL is set to Central Defender/Defend. Still a very defensive centre half, but this guy will try and play his way out of trouble a bit more, thus increasing possession. I tend to give this role to the centre half with higher composure and decisions.

Key Attribs – Heading, Marking, Tackling, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Determination, Positioning, Jumping, Strength

Central Midfielder

As mentioned previously, this guy’s role is to win the ball and distribute it. He’s our anchor in the middle of the park. If he wanders off then we have a hole the size of Portsmouth’s overdraft in our formation. He’s set to Ball Winning Midfielder/Defend. When we lose possession this guy is our first line of defence, when we have possession he’s available to receive passes from the flanks if the wide players come up against a brick wall, then he can redistribute it. Over the years you might think of David Batty, Nicky Butt, or more recently Nigel De Jong at Man City (hopefully without the career ending tackles… )

Key Attribs - Marking, Tackling, Bravery, Determination, Positioning, Teamwork, Work Rate, Stamina, Strength

Wide Midfielders

Even though these guys are playing in a deep midfield position, they are very much part of our attacking department. Set to Winger/Attack. Their ability to dribble at pace with strong crossing is what I’m looking for. Examples Gareth Bale, James Milner.

Key Attribs – Crossing, Dribbling, Technique, Decisions, Flair, Off The Ball, Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Pace

Attacking Midfielders

AMCL

Attacking Midfielder/Support. This guy is the more regimented of the two. He sits in the hole joining midfield play to attack play.

Key Attribs – First Touch, Long Shots, Passing, Technique, Creativity, Decisions, Flair, Teamwork, Work Rate, Balance.

AMCR

Trequartista/Attack. Our most stylish player. He has the freedom to wander around, find space, get into the box when he feels it appropriate. Think Denis Bergkamp, Paul Scholes, and being a NUFC fan myself, dare I say Kevin Nolan 

Key Attribs – Finishing, First Touch, Passing, Technique, Anticipation, Composure, Creativity, Flair, Off The Ball, Agility

Centre Forward

As I mentioned earlier, he’s currently set to Advanced Forward/Attack but I feel that this can be changed around to suit the player’s strengths. I’ll have a play with it.

Key Attribs – Dribbling, Finishing, Heading, Anticipation, Composure, Flair, Off The Ball, Work Rate, Pace

DOWNLOAD

Delta http://www.filefront.com/17494324/4-3-2-1 Pyramid Delta.tac

Sigma http://www.filefront.com/17494325/4-3-2-1 Pyramid Sigma.tac

Please see post below for explanation of when to use each tactic.

FAQ

What Opposition Instructions do you use?

I don't, you can if you like them, but I don't.

What size should my pitch be?

I tend toward a wide pitch to enable my wingers to gain maximum advantage.

Your tactic sucks! I've had better results using TacticDude's 0-0-0-0 tactic.

Errr ok. I welcome constructive criticism

What teamtalks should I use?

There's plenty of posts on the forum advising teamtalk startegy. I'm not an expert at this so I would advise you read posts from people that are.

The set pieces are a bit 'wonky', what's up?

I haven't had time to investigate the set piece creator yet, so they are set to default.

I seem to taking a lot of long shots, what's the deal with that?

Yeah, I've noticed this but I'm not convinced it's necessarily a bad thing as long as your players are able to put some of them in the net. I'll play around with the AMC players settings and see what happens.

Finally can I just say that this tactic is not intended to be a 'diablo' style win everything 28-0. It's early days in FM2011 and we all have much to learn about the match engine, what works well and what doesn't. This tactic is intended to be a base from which we can try things, discuss and improve. I welcome your feedback, and any improvements people can come up with. Don't blame me if you get relegated! At least I tried :-)

Happy managing!

Recoil

Which tactic to use and when?

I'll try not to be too patronising here hehe....

I originally called the two tactics 'Home' and 'Away' but that's just plain incorrect. So I toyed with 'Attacking' and 'Defensive' but that's totally misleading too. So Delta and Sigma it is.

The difference between the two is actually pretty minor. When I first started testing, the differences were much greater but it wasn't working the way I wanted it to, so I just made a few minor tweaks and built it from there.

Sigma

This tactic is for 'narrowing the gap'. An example - I'm managing Newcastle United and I'm about to face Chelsea at St James. Clearly Chelsea are some way in front of me in terms of squad ability so I want to narrow that gap and make it a much closer encounter. I use Sigma. Another example is from my Man City test. I'm playing away in the Euro Cup at a strong Spanish side so I use Sigma and win 1-0. I also used it at home to Man Utd, result we won 2-1. At hartlepool we played Championship 5th placed Doncaster at home in the cup. We were expected to take a drubbing, but I used Sigma and got a 2-2, we lost 3-2 after extra time but there was no shame at all. I used Delta in a test and lost 3-0.

I might prep Defensive Positioning before the match.

Delta

This tactic is used to 'widen the gap'. An example - I'm managing Real Madrid and we're playing at home to Almeria. I'm clear favourite at the bookies and the fans are hoping for at least a three goal margin. I want to make the gap in class as wide as possible so I use Delta. An example from my test, non league new boys Newcastle City have a bunch of 16 year olds and a small handfull of ragtag free transfers (one of which is the wrong side of 40 and is mistaken by our 12 fans for the mascot!.... no, he's not wearing a Mr Blobby outfit, that's actually him) but we're at home to Edinburgh City, who make our lot look like world beaters (trust me, the centre half used to work for me and I've seen the state he's in on the night before the match). So I use Delta and turn what would have been a 1-1 if I'd used Sigma into a comfortable 3-0.

I might prep Attacking Movement before the match.

I hope that makes sense. I'm now happy switching tactics to suit given that I can put both tactics into the preperation screen and know that my players understand both versions.

In conclusion, the tactics are not great..... they're ok and they'll do me until Mr Hough presents his new FM11 one (and, yes he IS working on at least one, got a pm from him the other day.)

Good luck and let me know how things go.

Recoil

Any other links

Filefront doesnt work for me

i'd love to test it with the magpies !

http://rapidshare.com/files/429220877/4-3-2-1_Pyramid_v1__Hartlepool__Jul_2010_.tac

Try the slow free rapidshare one....

Good luck. Gutierez should do quite well, god knows what our defence will be like though!!

Thanks mate !

i intend to use this tactic for away games against big teams !

http://rapidshare.com/files/429220877/4-3-2-1_Pyramid_v1__Hartlepool__Jul_2010_.tac

Try the slow free rapidshare one....

Good luck. Gutierez should do quite well, god knows what our defence will be like though!!

It's the patch 11.1?

It's the patch 11.1?

Yep. Can't imagine there'll be too many for 11.0

Ok,Thanks Mate..

Downloading..

How are you getting on with the scum (Hartlepool?) :-)

I'm trying a very similar formation myself, only difference is that I have a DMC instead of MC.

Trouble I'm having is that gap you talk of in the centre!

How are you getting on with the scum (Hartlepool?) :-)

I'm trying a very similar formation myself, only difference is that I have a DMC instead of MC.

Trouble I'm having is that gap you talk of in the centre!

Not bad at all, surprisingly! I restarted with the release version of the tactic and amjust playing through the preseason games with it. Only lost one where the left wing got himself sent off right at the start. First time Ive had a red card with the tactic, and even then we only just lost.

First game against Port Vale we were winning 4-0 with 5 mins to go and then conceded 2 goals from set pieces, so I'm going to have to see how the set piece creator works.

I've not made any transfers, just using the base squad to test with. That Yantomo is an absolute beast! I'll post a screeny of the ratings so far in a bit. And what's the deal with the guy in a monkey costume who keeps running up and down the touchline??

haha!

I've played 2 games with your tactic with Spurs, won twice against Auxerre.

Unfortunately, my left back in both games has had a red card!

Tried it with Newcastle and it looked promising when i beat At. Madrid in my first friendly but after that i god destroyed by Carlisle 7-1, my players seemed to be running away from the ball. I'll see what happens in the next few games

Good tactic when playing at home, won every game with Lecce in season 3 so far. But away its a bit too aggressive, losing fairly big. My best away result so far is a 3-2 loss at Sampdoria.

Ooops, edit: Just crushed Inter 5-0 in Milan. I'm actually on top of the table atm, but the victory against Inter is my first away from home.

Thanks for the feedback folks. Clearly plenty of work for me to do!

I'll stick v2 up in in a few minutes. No major changes as yet, but I've tried to sort out set pieces a bit more as I noticed most of the goals I was conceding were from corners.

I'm testing as a VERY non league side at the moment. Mostly 16/17 year olds with a sprinkling of more experienced free transfers. So far so good, in one match we were getting beaten 3-1 at half time, but I threw some tea cups in the dressing room and the lads scored 5 in the second half to win 6-3!!

Will give it a try mate.

And yes,dave is a magician,i hope he will recreate his brilliant tactics from FM10.

Looks promising. Will give it a go with United :-) I´ll give you feeback after a little while.

This is with the Pyramid. No tweaking what so ever.

Like i previously posted, I win almost every home game. Since the impressive away win at Inter things went a little better on the road.

As you can see, my three most attacking players have been instrumental. Aissati came in for a merely £3.4m while Maazou came in for 3,2. The rest are basically free transfers or below 1,5.

One question. Do you think Cristiano Ronaldo will play well in the Mr(winger) position? or he should be played a little bit ahead?

Started with napoli and doing great.I'm 1st place in the league and just lost my 1st game to Sampdoria on Away after recieving an early red card.

A bit tweaking on the defence and this tactic will be perfect.

One question. Do you think Cristiano Ronaldo will play well in the Mr(winger) position? or he should be played a little bit ahead?

ST will be good for him.

thanks mate!!!! Gonna test him like that too!!!

Thanks folks, I'm having a look at the away issue in my current game. In the meantime it might be an idea to set 'attacking' to 'control' at the beginning of the match in the inbstructions.

Simone, thx for feedback. What are you finding is the main reason that away games are not as strong? Is it lack of possession or are the opposition just creating too many chances??

Mkabas : Unfortunately Ronaldo is not a natural AMC or he would be ideal for the AMRC role. As Ernest points out, he should suit the striker fine but thay means leaving out Higuain AND Benzema at Real Madrid. Such are the problems of managing a side with too many great players hehe!

playing with leyton orient

the team play really well, never had less than 5 CCC per game

yet i've only won twice... keep losing 1 or 2 nil and normally the opposition team only have 1/2 shots on goal or on target

creates loads of one on ones but my striker is yet to score one (playing fabien brandy upfront 12 composure 12 finishing)

so frustrating cos going forward the football is so good

to be honest its like watching Aresnal...

all the possession, all the passing, all the chances

yet the other team have one shot, score and win

where do i place this??

some good feedback here, im gonna test it out myself....will post results.....cheers

Thanks for sharing your tactic.

whats the difference between V1 and V2 and which one is the best??

thank you.

Wijnand

Thanks for sharing your tactic.

whats the difference between V1 and V2 and which one is the best??

thank you.

Wijnand

I assume V2 is much more playble after some tweaks.

Thanks for sharing your tactic.

whats the difference between V1 and V2 and which one is the best??

thank you.

Wijnand

I'll stick v2 up in in a few minutes. No major changes as yet, but I've tried to sort out set pieces a bit more as I noticed most of the goals I was conceding were from corners.

^^ see above

Thinking of using this for my Barcelona save. The idea of Iniesta and Messi together the AMC roles feeding through for Villa is mouth watering. Only issue I'd find is suitable people for ML and MR

Hey guys,

Answers first - As ginger roy pointed out the differences are just that the set pieces are a little better. STill not as good as I want them defensively though.

Where do I place this? - In your tactics folder.

DJ Backchat - Hmm, sorry to hear that you're not putting the ball in the back of the net. On the subject of conceding goals when the opposition are limited in chances, I would tend to look critically at the keeper. Is he up to the job?

Now an update, I've had a play with some changes to tighten up defence. I moved the MC to DMC and gave him a tweaked anchor role for starters. He's basically doing the same job just in front of the centrebacks instead of in the middle of the park. I also puuled the defensive line back a bit and changed the fluid style to a more rigid one. Looked promising at first, but I just wasn't happy with it. It detracts too much from the attacking focus, which means I'm conceding too much ground and allowing the opposition more possession than I would like. Though the defence is tougher to break down, I'm giving away too many chances and not creating as many of my own.

So the testing continues. I'll try a few other things.

P.S. Having had a good play with the match prep screen, I'm beginning to wonder if we should start seriously looking at one tactic for home and one for away at tough opposition. This would certainly reflect real life a lot more. In the old days we couldn't really do this because the players would never get used to a tactic if you are continually swapping it in and out. Now we can prepare multiple tactics for them to get used to.

I thought it might be useful to talk through a tricky away match using the new 'in test' v3 Pyramid tactic.

Though I really liked the idea of switching the MC to DMC, I've had to accept that this is a none starter. It gives the opposition too much space in midfield as we retreat towards our own penalty box. So, I've elected for various team level tweaks rather than altering the individual players.

The match I've chosen is Man City away at Trabzonspor in the Euro Cup. Though Man City should win this, it has the potential to be a much more tricky affair. To set a benchmark, I tested with some of the more popular FM11 tactics from the forum. The first is a nightmare, they have 24 shots, we have 2. They win 5-0. This is the sort of benchmark I like hehe, shouldn't be too difficult to do better than that.

Minute

1 : Off we go. v3 should see us a little less adventurous but more in control of the match, the starting strstegy is Control as opposed to Attacking.

30 : Much happier with this version so far. Chances are 8-3 in our favour, they haven't had any clear cut chances and we've had 55% possession. The passing has been crisp, and the extra width I've given them is giving us more space to stretch the opposition. We're not getting players in the box in numbers, but then I have to expect that there's a cost to having greater control.

45: Half time. Trabzonspor are just not getting any rythm. We've looked solid at the back and they're resigned to shooting from range. I'm much more happy with possession, a steady 55% and we're not backing off and giving Trabzonspor the midfield. I'll stick with this for a bit in the second half and see how it goes.

63: Ok, time unleash the forward line. All I do is set the instruction for strategy from Control to Attacking.

68: Already I can see a difference. The lads are being more positive and we're getting players up in numbers.

72: GOAL! Having players in the opposition box pays off. There's a game of pinball in the box and finally Tevez smashes it into the net. 0-1.

73: I change the strategy down a couple of notches to Standard. Why not more defensive? Trabzonspor are going to come at us now, and the last thing I want to do is sit back and invite them on. Let's make sure they have something to worry about.

84: GOAL! It works! Trabzonspor have come at us in numbers and we've countered superbly. Y Toure playing the MC role is in space in the opposition half, he spots Silva (AMRC Playmaker) on the edge off the box and plays it to him. Silva has a defender man marking him so plays it along the the 15 yard line to Wright-Phillips (AMLC), who plays a soft through ball into the box. Carlos "poor man's Messi" Tevez is on it and slides it past the keeper. This is EXACTLY the sort of play from these guys that I was looking for in the original tactical philosophy. 0-2

90: Really happy with the performance. Felt much more in control.

Post match and Tevez tells the press that the win was all down to me and my inspirational team talks. Aww shucks, stop it Carl, I'm blushing.

I'll test some more with City, then off to Hartlepool to see how lesser players cope, then finally non league.

Thanks folks, I'm having a look at the away issue in my current game. In the meantime it might be an idea to set 'attacking' to 'control' at the beginning of the match in the inbstructions.

Simone, thx for feedback. What are you finding is the main reason that away games are not as strong? Is it lack of possession or are the opposition just creating too many chances??

I should have been more clear in my post last night. The team adjusted fairly well after five or six away games (without any tweaks, incl set peices). The majority of goals conceded away came from crosses, but bear in mind that I was coaching Lecce, who at the time of appointment was going to Serie B halfway through the season. The squad was crap when I took over and with limited resources I had to go for listed players on the cheap.

The back four consisted mainly of Michel Morganella (RB), Davide Brivio (LB), Ferrario and Silvestre (CB). My fullbacks were not exactly the best players around. After a season and a half I was approached by Inter (with 6 rounds remaining of the Serie A) and I became the new manager there by the end of the season (great feature btw). I finished 6th, after a tiny collapse. The squad was just not good enough to maintain that kind of form it takes to finish top four.

I also scored the most in the league, and conceded about as much as the relegated teams. Many of the games, including at home, ended typically 4-3, 3-3 and so on.

Edit: I used the Hartlepool version!

How is it the AMCs doing in this tactic?

How is it the AMCs doing in this tactic?

The AMCs will get plenty of oppurtunity to show their class. If you scroll up a bit you can see a screen shot of SimoneDeCavalcante's Lecce ratings. Take a look at Piatti and Aissatti. I'd be pretty happy with those ratings and goals :-)

In reply to SimoneDeCavalcante

Thanks for that m8. Though I would advise against mentioning at your first Inter press conference that your tactical inspiration is Hartlepool hehe.

Interesting that the team were conceding from crosses. I'll keep an eye open for this in the v3 tests. As you rightly point out, the players are playing above their own personal level and the first question I ask myself when having issues in test matches is "Is this a problem with the tactic or is it the players?". I'll investigate :-)

Thanks again for the feedback, it's my lifeblood.

When do you plan to let us try v3 Recoil?

Just testing it now, don't want to publish something that's worse than the last version!

Going through a second set of games as Man City at the moment, then I'll test it with Hartlepool. Adjusted it slightly from the one in the Trabzonspor game.

Is there a major improvment from the latest version,Recoil ?

Better away from home, worse at home. So I'm toying with v2 at home and v3 away.

As an example of away, take the trabzonspur results from multiple test runs :

v2 2-2, 2-2 (consistent!)

v3 0-2, 1-4, 1-2

I'm on the final run through at City now.

Better away from home, worse at home. So I'm toying with v2 at home and v3 away.

I would just like to point out that with a weak team like Lecce, you're bound to be overpowered at one point or another. I lost both encounters vs Udinese for instance. FM-wise they are a stronger team and won the Scudetto in 11 and 12. Also seem to remember losing both against Napoli too.

Personally I would rather use a tactic that almost guarantee a home win (like yours), because away games will often be as tough as they come, regardless of tactic.

Look at my results away after the win against my new employer (displayed at top). Notice that the win against Inter came around mid november, after 4 straight defeats on the road. I drew against Juventus, won at Roma and a few other decent results. With a far more inferior side than my more glamorous opponents.

Gonna give this a go with Newcastle. I just completed pre-season and lost to Arsenal 6-0 in the opening game of the season. As D-ream once said, things can only get better!

Would this work with the wingers pushed in, ie xmas tree :confused:

Would this work with the wingers pushed in, ie xmas tree :confused:

Only one way to find out! give it a try.

In v3 the width is increased a bit, so you might want reduce the width setting a bit.

ok. I've posted all new downloads in the op. Please read the second post for an explanation. This is probably it until Mr Hough returns with his new tactic, then I'll switch to that :-)

I'm using this with Birmingham, had a poor pre-season. But then beat Bolton away 2-0 on the 1st day. Then was beat 3-1 at home to arsenal, lost 1-0 away to man city (with 10 men for 40 mins and balotelli scored last min) then drew 3-3 v Chelsea at home(was 2-0 up)

To be fair I've had possibly the hardest start to a season ever so it is pretty promising.

Just wondered if you could recommend which of my players to put in the front 3 positions?

Nikola Zigic

Cameron jerome

Kevin Phillips

Matt Derbyshire

Thomas necid

Neymar

Alexander Hleb

Paulo henrique

I've been playing neymar amcr and henrique amcl. Hleb lm and rotation between necid and jerome as the striker as Zigic is injured.

Any advice would be great.

been using this with my local indonesian team, and having some huge wins but also huge loses especially away and the goalie perform very bad... i'll post screenshots later... but quite great setup if have right players...

Been using this with my Crewe team (first season).....

So far in pre-season i am having mixed results, winning one game 7-1 but then losing 3-0 to a non-league side the game after.....i have won 3, lost 3 using this tactic.

Most of the goals are coming from crosses, with the striker being unmarked to put the chances away. Also notice that the opposition exploits the gap between the defence and central midfielder.

Good tactic though

Folks, which tactic were you using - Sigma or Delta? and what were the differences between the teams prior to the match? If you use the wrong tactic in the wrong situation then you WILL be overrun. Is the explanation in the second post clear??

Folks, which tactic were you using - Sigma or Delta? and what were the differences between the teams prior to the match? If you use the wrong tactic in the wrong situation then you WILL be overrun. Is the explanation in the second post clear??

Ive been using delta when im clear favourates and ive won all the games ive played that tactic, usually 2-0 or something similar, bossing possession and creating quite a few CCC.

Im struggling a little in deciding when to switch to sigma. Im playing as Sao Paulo and against Flamengo in the libertadores quarter final i used delta at home 0-0 and sigma away 1-1. Then in the semi against Cruzeiro at home started with sigma, but we were getting overrun, it was 0-0 at half time, but they were well on top, so switched to delta, played much better. The match finished 0-0, buty we dominated in the second half and the fact we didn't win is to do with my players, not the tactic, my forward has poor composure. In the second leg, I think i will again start with sigma as it worked well away from home against Flamengo.

I'll let you know how it goes in the second leg and in other games, but i may not be online tonight, and if im not online tonight it wont be until friday night as the GF's visiting from tomorrow so will be taking an FM saabatical.

Tactic looks really good and works really well, thanks for the all the effort you have put into it, I have struggled with tactics the last two editions and folks like you are really helping me to a) enjoy the game by using a succesful and fun tactic and b) improving my understanding of the new tactics module.

Tried and tested with Newcastle and unfortunately it went pretty badly. It's a shame because I had a decent setup ready for it. Thanks for posting it though and good luck with your continued tweaking!