Game is too hard

Well I just got the urge to start playing again after I uninstalled it 2 months ago. This time I started as Blackburn because I thought it would be fun to build them into champions and I won't get relegated and I wouldn't have much time to play anyway since I got uni exams coming up.

So I pop in my old tactic and place players in their appropriate positions and thought voila! I am the special one.

12 months later, I've barely missed relegation and in the second season I have gotten 12 draws 6 losses and only 5 wins. The game was just frustrating to me. Like I could be leading 3-0 going into half-time and they'll somehow win 4-3 time and time again. It's getting pretty comedic that I just minimise FM so save myself the anger when it's in extra time and I am leading and they use the 4-2-4 formation.

Why can't they make it easier for guys like me that have other things to do and only have around an hour or two to play. I just want to play the games/press continue without playing with tactics for an hour and by that time all my free time have been used up. It's such a chore I rather study for my exams. Screw this game /rant. And yes, I uninstalled it, again.

If you don't want to spend any time on your tactics, and just want a game where you can press continue and play the matches, then I don't think FM is really the game for you anymore.

Originally posted by Kain:

If you don't want to spend any time on your tactics, and just want a game where you can press continue and play the matches, then I don't think FM is really the game for you anymore.

Which is a shame really, I use to love this game cause I could actually have fun playing it and winning things. Now it's a chore to do anything.

I know someone is going to chime in and say use a downloaded tactic. But I love my 442 diamond, however it seems FM decided that it shouldn't work anymore no matter what even though I been using the same tactic basically for the last 4 versions and had great success with it. And no, I am not going to download some of those weird as 3-5-2 tactics with enough farrows to give you a seizure. Why can't they make the 442 work grrrrrr.

I just feel I shouldn't have to touch and adjust 50 different settings every match to ensure I don't concede, which is way too much effort for a casual gamer like me. I really hope SI tone it down a bit for FM09 and the game goes back to its root of the fun days like 01/02 where everything is so easy and simple to do.

I agree with Kain.

Football Manager is in no way, shape, or form, a quick game. It's a dedicated simulation, intended to be slow and difficult.

And unfortunately, I don't think there are many alternatives for your requirements. Even the more casual FIFA Manager is gonna require time and thought. It's just the nature of this type of game.

Making the game simplistic would defy everything it is about. I do agree that sometimes it's frustrating when you don't have much time and just wanna have a little fun, but toning it down would cause massive problems with the FM fanbase (myself included), as we always crave more and more realism. In my opinion, this game should have implemented an adjustable difficulty level long ago, which would surely please both types of gamers.

Originally posted by B. Stinson:

I agree with Kain.

Football Manager is in no way, shape, or form, a quick game. It's a dedicated simulation, intended to be slow and difficult.

And unfortunately, I don't think there are many alternatives for your requirements. Even the more casual FIFA Manager is gonna require time and thought. It's just the nature of this type of game.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I am hating all this micro management part of the tactics. In the old versions you'll just have defend/attack etc but now you have got bars for all kind of things which is just plain confusing. Now I know it's a simulation but this is just a bit too much for me. In real life you don't see managers on the 80th twinkering with their tactics in so much depth like you have to in FM.

I've tried FIFA before and I hate to say it but it is more fun for casual gamers like me. Yet I keep coming back to SI cause I am just attached to this series. But I am afraid this feeling might be soon gone cause this game just isn't fun anymore. You got to understand that although it is a real life simulation this is still a game, it should still be fun. By making it so hard it is taking the fun away from the game, might as well play with Microsoft Excel.

just curious, have you try to use only the standard tactics without any detail tweaking?

The reason i ask that is because, from my own experience, using the standard tactics with only minimal tweating (in my case, reduce Creative freedom) work suprisingly well. I don't win all the games, but my team usually perform reasonably well. Got Chestfield promoted to championship in three seasons (spending 10k in total), and Leeds in EPL in two seasons playing that way.

Maybe you should have a go at that, see how far it will take you

Just download a few from the forum and try them out. I don't like to dedicate a ton of time either and that's what I do. You may not win as much as you would with hours of tweaking, but you'll do well enough.

For a long term game, I'd strongly recommend Ipswich. They have a lot of $ so you can get easy promotion first season and build from there. TBH Blackburn is a tough game because your squad is pretty thin and you have very little money to work with unless you sell the best players.

Why on earth would you want the same tactic to win every game in every version of this game? The attitude of, "I want to win every game doing something completely exploitive" really baffles me.

Originally posted by Fire Bracelet:

Why on earth would you want the same tactic to win every game in every version of this game? The attitude of, "I want to win every game doing something completely exploitive" really baffles me.

I am going to pretend that you didn't just call me a cheat and basically imply that my 442 diamond tactic is an exploit.

Originally posted by themavsman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fire Bracelet:

Why on earth would you want the same tactic to win every game in every version of this game? The attitude of, "I want to win every game doing something completely exploitive" really baffles me.

I am going to pretend that you didn't just call me a cheat and basically imply that my 442 diamond tactic is an exploit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay.

I still think one of the ways to address this kind of concern would be to have some sort of feedback or advice on tactics available from your assistant - so themavsman could at least get a suggestion as to what's going wrong with his formation.

Seems like it would be easy to make this completely optional, so if you didn't want any help you'd never have to get it, and it would help a lot of players with FM's pretty daunting learning curve.

Unfortunately SI seems dead set against anything like it, which i think is unfortunate.

It seems one problem with this game is that almost nobody wants to watch full matches game in and game out. It seems the AI has the advantage of altering strategies during a full match, even when you're only watching key plays. The human manager seems to be at a disadvantage under these circumstances.

I wish SI would give you a "sit in the stands" option where you could give a pre-game strategy to the assistant. You could tell him under what circumstances you want changes to be made during the match, and leave the rest to his judgment. Then, if you want, you could just sit back and watch the game, and not have to worry so much about frenetic tactics changing every few seconds to match the AI manager. I think it would make the game more fun and seem a little bit more fair.

Sitting on the formations screen during the match helps. Altering your formation depending on the other team's success and strategy helps a great deal.

Originally posted by themavsman:

I guess what I am trying to say is that I am hating all this micro management part of the tactics. In the old versions you'll just have defend/attack etc but now you have got bars for all kind of things which is just plain confusing. Now I know it's a simulation but this is just a bit too much for me. In real life you don't see managers on the 80th twinkering with their tactics in so much depth like you have to in FM.

The tactics aspect of the game has been roudnly criticised for a while now and hopefully it will be looked at in FM09. The one thing I would say is, people continue with this thing about "no real life manager would say attack by 11", yeah this is true, but no real life manager would say "attack, mixed passing, medium tackling, don't counter attack", which is what the previous versions were like.

It was all a bit too simplistic. As said above, if you want something easy and LMA'ish, then FM is not the game for you, but I wouldn't be put off just yet. Tactical tinkering is a bit of a myth created by these forums, there are jsut as many people who have great success with only one tactic that they never change as people who make changes every other minute.

Why can't they make it easier for guys like me that have other things to do and only have around an hour or two to play. I just want to play the games/press continue without playing with tactics for an hour and by that time all my free time have been used up. It's such a chore I rather study for my exams. Screw this game /rant. And yes, I uninstalled it, again.

This is all possible and I only get about 30 mins of playing time a day, yet i'm in 2018. I don't muck about with tactics and rarely make too much of a change to my starting line up.

You can't have the best of both worlds, i.e. an incredibly in depth game, which is as close to real life management as a game has got (FM) or a fluffy easy walk in the park, that is just a bit of fun and only takes 20 mins (Fifa).

Being hard is what makes FM fun.

i think we all have our favourite tactic. We then go out and buy the players for those positions and then just when we think we've got the balance right, boom! you get humped 3 nil! which can be a bit of a heart breaker. after all you've played previous versions, you know what you like for your team, you think you've got the wealth of knowledge and then it all comes crashing down.

But it could be a lesson in disguise, after all, how many managers stick to the same formation week in week out? no two teams are the same, thats why we have to do our homework a bit on the opposition to exploit any weeknesses to our advantage. thats what they'd do in real life.

I don't really get this altering tactics depending on your opposition stuff. I started FM08 and played a variety of saves with different teams and devised a few tactics, now I have only 2 tactics, one for home games and one for away games. I've used these tactics every game for 10 seasons and have won 8 titles and 2 CL's with different teams, i've played in German, Spain and England. I never make any changes during the match other than subs, I suppose this is more unrealistic than changing tweaking your tactics, but I genuinely think that sometimes we are forced into beleiveing we need to because of these forums.

i suppose what i'm saying is that if one week you've got a numpty winger who has no pace and the next week you've got ronaldo, youre going to close that wee bugger down before he does some critical damage. if you leave it on a standard instruction that you've played in the last 10 games, then it will be found out and the damage will be done.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

I don't really get this altering tactics depending on your opposition stuff. I started FM08 and played a variety of saves with different teams and devised a few tactics, now I have only 2 tactics, one for home games and one for away games. I've used these tactics every game for 10 seasons and have won 8 titles and 2 CL's with different teams, i've played in German, Spain and England. I never make any changes during the match other than subs, I suppose this is more unrealistic than changing tweaking your tactics, but I genuinely think that sometimes we are forced into beleiveing we need to because of these forums.

Totally agree. I don't even go as far as having a home and away tactic, I have one balanced 4-4-2 tactic which has won me the Champions League and Premier League with Gateshead!

I'm proper lazy and never tweak. I basically stick the game on auto-continue so me missus doesn't think I'm ignoring her and only touch the game on a match day (apart from in transfer windows). Because I've got my team talks, training, media interaction and tactics sorted I don't need to do anything except play the match. I don't even bother with opposition instructions any more. And I'm currently doing pretty well in my new Sunderland game. Although I only finished 13th in my 1st season I've now been able to strengthen my squad and I'll be expecting a top 6 finish this year.

Not wanting to tweak all the time is a poor excuse for saying the games not for you. Tweaking can be very successful, but it's certainly not essential. The problem you're having by the sounds of it is that your tactics no good to start with. It's probably either too attacking or too defensive, if you don't want to tweak it needs to be very balanced. It also sounds like your team talks are poor if you're often losing 3 goal half time leads.

To be honest with you i had a bit of a problem with this incarnation of FM, and i am kind of in your situation, whilst i do have time to play constantly at the moment i'm not that regular a player.

However i have managed to get a successful tactic that allowed me to get Man City the League Cup and the Prem in my first season. This is not a bragging post, but after being a bit crap at the game i found that 30 minutes of checking out the various tactics stickies in the training and tactics forum allowed me to create my own tactic very quickly. On top of this i have not found the need to change the tactic at all, the only time i touch it is to pull back my full backs and time waste when i'm ahead, that takes like two seconds.

I guess what i'm basically saying is that there are a massive amount of guides and posts out there that can help your situation, hell if they can get me winning anyone can do it.

well i still play 2006 i am only into my third season and i have never downloaded a tactic ever. i am with barnet who were expected to fight bravely against relegation in my first season. i have won the leyland daf in my first 2 seasons i finished 4th and lost the playoffs in my first season and finished 2nd in my 2nd season and went up. my 3 assistant managers say i need to strengthen every area of the pitch to avoid relegation in my first season in division one. so far i have won 6 and drawn one game. so i am very successful in my first ever game of football manager. in my first 2 seasons my transfer budget was 10k. i believe in order of importance you need to pay attention to these points.

1 Players. Try to get at least one have decent player in every position, by half decent i dont mean killer players (not that i can get any at barnet) just decent players with stats that are appropriate eg Finshing, pace for strikers, tackling heading for defenders etc You can do this by loaning players from big teams or if you play someone like barnet like i do free players or cheap players will greatly improve your squad.

2 Formation - Goto the screen where you can move the blobs around and create arrows etc and alter them appropriately. i have 2 cb two wb(though i often play fullbacks) and have them press up field a bit. a have a defensive midfielder and a central midfielder. normally i have 2 wingers cutting in towards the centre forward postion and two centre forwards. i do occassionally play normal left/right midfielder positions depending on strentgth of my opponent.

3 Fitness - I very very rarely start a player who has less than 90% fitness even if he is a star player if i do play a semi fit player he often gets injured.

4 Morale - Morale is very important you will often get sub par performances from a player if his morale isnt superb there is no harm in playing a few players on good/very good morale or average morale just dont expect a good performance if you do.

I tend to have a LOT of player movement eg i have 90 players altogether, when i get a decent offer to one i ship them out so i can get money in to change my squad.

You may have noticed i have not mentioned the sliders, that is because i RARELY change them. I look at the player prefered moves and he has so looks to get forward or whatever i will put a up arrow on the formation for him that is about it for me with the tactical sliders i have never altered them otherwise.

With this style of play i have a poorly performing reserve side but have finished 2nd in the youth leagues in my first two seasons with barnet.

To the OP: sounds like your main problem is the 4-2-4 tactic. Do a search - there's a hundred threads on how to counter this, both here and in the tactics forum. Should cut your draws in half.

try football manager handheld

it is a basic version of this game

easy to pick up and play

not much tactics needed to win everything

i had stalbans to premierleague so easy on 07

but that bored me because of the slimplicty so now i play both but hardly the psp version because pc is so god damn good!

anyways get fmh (Y)

Originally posted by Mortified Penguin:

Being hard is what makes FM fun.

I'd have to disagree with you there.I think its being hard is what makes FM rewarding,the game can often be far from fun in my experiences,but its when you finally win something that makes it feel all worthwhile

Yeah it is hard and it is getting harder with every new release, looks like they want to kick the casual players out of the game.

To the OP

Try 4 defense flat

3 MCs , right left with DM skills and an AM in the middle (with marking ability) , make an arrow up on the AM (moving to AM position)

3 STs , right and left with winger skills , make them an arrow to move towards the corners or the winger positions (this only in extreme cases).

use a fast guy in the middle of the STs

adjust the sliders as you want and experiment

use the "down both wings"

Give it some serious testing ( reload friendlies ) ; since fm06 this is the best non cheating tactic around (and it is not mine)

delete 4-2-4 tactic from Ai's tactical folder

i do hate to spend time in tactics screen too

Too be fair I like the slow and hardworking aspect of FM because it is a alot like life, if you want the best things you have to earn it and will take time plus winning the Champions League is awwwwesome!

I agree that the whole basis that FM has been built on is about its realism and at times complexity to incorporate as much of the mordern managers experience as possible so watering it down wouldn't really interest me.

However it is a valid point that there maybe should be an option at the beginning of the game to choose maybe an easy, medium or hard option or maybe even better a detailed or less detailed option. This way people that want the whole realism can have it and people who really want just the basics can also enjoy the game.

Harder, I agree but that does not neccessarily mean that the game has gotten to a stage of insufferable difficulty.

If you are comparing the game to Championship Manager editions of old you have a point. 00/01 & 01/02 were fast, simple and easy, different games to Football Manager of now.

Nowadays Football Manager does require some actual knowledge to get by but it remains easier than people give it credit for. I regularly do well and I'm not big on tinkering and don't go into as much detail as some people believe they have to. I have one tactic rather than one that I change depending on the situation and that I use regardless of whether I am home or away. I toggle with opposition instructions a little to combat particularly dangerous forwards and make sure I'm clued up on team talks but that's roughly about it.

Unfortunately the same tactic wont work with every game. You have actually been rather fortunate that it has worked for you so long. As far back as I can remember, I have had to use a different tactic with every new edition of the game. I too like a 4-4-2 diamond and I have one that works a treat.

Personally I think SI have the balance just about right between too difficult and too easy and the 'adjusting of fifty settings every match' is only appropriate if you want to do something very special eg. winning the Premier League with Derby. I found a tactic that works for me and then I buy my players and press continue. I don't bother with training, tactical changes based on the opposition or anything like that.

It's worth having a bit of faith. To start with getting the right tactic is probably the major obstacle but once you have that out of the way you're laughing on the road to silverware.

Incidentally, I do believe there is a market for a more lightweight, quick and simpler football manager simulation on the market, in the mold of Championship Manager 00/01 & 01/02 but as far as I am aware, nothing like that exists quite yet though I've heard good things about FM on the PSP though of course you would need to have a PSP for that.

I know you say you love your diamond but if it isn't working and you cannot be bothered making a new one there are some very good tactics in this tactic forum. It's where I found the base for my 4-4-2 diamond which I then tweaked and played with to come up with something even better.

The whole constant tinkering to get success belief is definitely a myth though.

some of these replies are really condescending and a bit elitist sounding, "haw haw haw the commoner doesn't understand the sophisticated nuances of the tactical engine"

it has to be said the newest incarnation seems to be a little too tough and reliant on tiny tactical adjustements that are born more from trial and error than genuine understanding of tactics within football

Man, if today's sims are targeting customers with "some knowledge" they better put a sticker on the box saying that "if you are not a pro don't bother" .

Realism is okay if that's what you want to feel but realistically you do have to beat the engine and given the way it works i finally understood why the option to place our players in the pitch according to where the ball is was removed ; give me this and i will make you an unbeatable tactic that works any day.

Fm08 is not bad as a game i just don't like the philosophy it is built upon , everything in the game is made to make your life hard ; where is the fun with that?

I mean you go home at night , light a cigar , put some vodka on ice and load the game, then hell breaks out , chairman sells your best players to teams that use blank accounts (from non active leagues) , AI uses some super "gray" players against you , you can not sell any of the players you don't need in their selling price and you can not buy any of the players you want on their selling price , above that all personas in the game act like 9 year old girls and in the top of all this the 4-4-2 half the the clubs on this planet are using simple doesn't work .

You think "okay give me 2 hours and i will learn to play" but then 10 games after you are sucked by the club...

When this happens i start thinking that i should have stayed in the office .

Originally posted by ihateregistering:

some of these replies are really condescending and a bit elitist sounding, "haw haw haw the commoner doesn't understand the sophisticated nuances of the tactical engine"

it has to be said the newest incarnation seems to be a little too tough and reliant on tiny tactical adjustements that are born more from trial and error than genuine understanding of tactics within football

We are all in the same boat though. I've been playing FM/CM since 97, and I spend months trying all sorts out until I get it right. I got FM08 on release day and didn't even try starting a career game until the turn of the year lol. I had spent the previous few months starting game after game, managing team after team and trying every tactical possibility I could think of.

I don't think people are being condescending, but I do feel that if someone wants to buy a game and be good at it without spending time mastering it then they should know that FM is a terrible choice.

IMO it's obvious that people prefer CM/FM that little bit harder and know what to expect from it. That's the reason most people love CM01/02 (the hardest IMO of the CM series), but hate CM4 (without doubt the easiest CM/FM ever).

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

and in the top of all this the 4-4-2 half the the clubs on this planet are using simple doesn't work QUOTE]

i think SI are right to make 442 not really work at top flight cause looking at the 'top teams' in the top european leauges nowadays almost all of them play some variation of a 451 or 433 or 4231.

Generally i agree with the current tactics system is a bit complex for a casual user but id say that generally i agree with people previously that said try something new you cant always play your 'set formation'

I don't really get this casual user thing. If you are a casual gamer and don't want anything too in depth you wouldn't buy Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy, you'd buy Fifa or Pro evo. So why would a casual gamer buy FM?

Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ihateregistering:

some of these replies are really condescending and a bit elitist sounding, "haw haw haw the commoner doesn't understand the sophisticated nuances of the tactical engine"

it has to be said the newest incarnation seems to be a little too tough and reliant on tiny tactical adjustements that are born more from trial and error than genuine understanding of tactics within football

We are all in the same boat though. I've been playing FM/CM since 97, and I spend months trying all sorts out until I get it right. I got FM08 on release day and didn't even try starting a career game until the turn of the year lol. I had spent the previous few months starting game after game, managing team after team and trying every tactical possibility I could think of.

I don't think people are being condescending, but I do feel that if someone wants to buy a game and be good at it without spending time mastering it then they should know that FM is a terrible choice.

IMO it's obvious that people prefer CM/FM that little bit harder and know what to expect from it. That's the reason most people love CM01/02 (the hardest IMO of the CM series), but hate CM4 (without doubt the easiest CM/FM ever). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea i agree with you it's just the replies like "bye bye then" it's just incredibly unconstructive because someone is having problems with the game which i was having and i'ce played all the incarnations and i found the newest one the toughest

i think more constructive replies with suggestions and reassurance would have been better is all

Originally posted by ihateregistering:

i think more constructive replies with suggestions and reassurance would have been better is all

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

I don't really get this casual user thing. If you are a casual gamer and don't want anything too in depth you wouldn't buy Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy, you'd buy Fifa or Pro evo. So why would a casual gamer buy FM?

Because there was no sticker on the box saying that this software is only for the pros.

If SI's intentions are all their future releases to target strictly their hard core fan base they better clear this out in a news letter instead of informing us about their new releases.

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

I don't really get this casual user thing. If you are a casual gamer and don't want anything too in depth you wouldn't buy Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy, you'd buy Fifa or Pro evo. So why would a casual gamer buy FM?

Because there was no sticker on the box saying that this software is only for the pros.

If SI's intentions are all their future releases to target strictly their hard core fan base they better clear this out in a news letter instead of informing us about their new releases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And lose a whole lot of sales?? i cant see this happening.

Besides, SI lsot touch with their consumers looooong ago. Its all about the money these days.

This game takes a little patience to get going, but once you get the hang of it, its incredibly addictive and fun.

A little less conversation, a little more action please...

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

Because there was no sticker on the box saying that this software is only for the pros.

If SI's intentions are all their future releases to target strictly their hard core fan base they better clear this out in a news letter instead of informing us about their new releases.

I've yet to see a game with a sticker telling us that it's more difficult than another game lol, you're supposed to make your own mind up. Fact is if I bought MGS tomorrow without ever playing it before I would practice it until I was good enough, I wouldn't request that they make it easier for newcomers. If the world worked like that we'd have two versions of every game, one for newcomers and casual gamers and one for people who have played it before and are willing to put the time and the effort in.

The game is hard, but it's more to do with there being no difference between AI managers and them ALWAYS being technically sound with their tactics, knowing exactly what to do to beat you. AI managers should have varying levels of tactical abilities based on their stats. i.e. playing against Alex Ferguson should require a lot of detail to tactics and the AI should be very good tactically for him, whereas the AI against Kevin Keegan should be less tactical.

See my thread here:-

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/1822064804

I think there's a lot of people like me who enjoy the role playing side of the game.

I like buying and selling players, playing mind games, looking at form, team morale, deciding what players to play and what areas of the team need improvement.

Then I like going to match day and have a result based on "do my set of players work better than their set of players?"

I don't want to spend hours playing with tactics and I just use standard default 4-4-2

I haven't found this has been so bad so far. I'm playing as Bognor Regis in my third season, we've been promoted once and are consistently outperforming expectations so I'm happy enough. It's my first game of FM 08 (and I hadn't played since the CM days) so I'm worried things will be a lot tougher in the higher leagues after reading threads like this, but so far so good.

It would be nice if you could leave tactics to the assistant manager. I don't want uber tactics, I just want mine to default to being as good as the opposition, so my players abilities and morale are what matters.

I agree this one seems to hard. Maybe I just don't want to put the work in, I'm not sure. I know they say what team plays exactly the same week in, week out. But then again, what manager has to watch the game in 2d from above?

I agree with the roleplaying aspect. The previous iterations I could just say, lets play attacking..or lets play wide this game lads. This version seems like a LOT of trial and error trying to find the exact point on a slider that gives the best results.

I think these claims of spending "hours on tactics" are being blown way out of proportion. Either that, or many people are doing it mindlessly without even trying to do less.

...Because I personally am nearing the end of my best season to-date, and on the brink of promotion to the Swedish Div. 1, and I have hardly touched my tactics all season. Just the same old 4-4-2 I started with, with some minor 10-second changes to player mentalities depending on home or away; and a quick handful of clicks for tempo/defensive line depending on the weather. Takes a total of maybe two or three minutes, including the time it takes to think about what to change.

And in-game is the same deal. Small changes here and there if the situation calls for it, and that's it.

In fact, that's probably why so many people can't win... It's not that you're not making enough changes - you're making too many. The game does pick-up on this behaviour, and will penalise you for it.

Originally posted by B. Stinson:

I think these claims of spending "hours on tactics" are being blown way out of proportion. Either that, or many people are doing it mindlessly without even trying to do less.

...Because I personally am nearing the end of my best season to-date, and on the brink of promotion to the Swedish Div. 1, and I have hardly touched my tactics all season. Just the same old 4-4-2 I started with, with some minor 10-second changes to player mentalities depending on home or away; and a quick handful of clicks for tempo/defensive line depending on the weather. Takes a total of maybe two or three minutes, including the time it takes to think about what to change.

And in-game is the same deal. Small changes here and there if the situation calls for it, and that's it.

In fact, that's probably why so many people can't win... It's not that you're not making enough changes - you're making too many. The game does pick-up on this behaviour, and will penalise you for it.

Definately. Like I said earlier I spent hours spread over months working on tactics when I first got the game, but come December I had good tactics and since then i've never made a change to them. I never tweak during a match or before it, I don't even set opposition instructions and i've won 8 leagues and 2 CL's on that long term save.

He's also right about the game penalising you for making changes too often. The players need to get used to the tactic and when I take over a club it takes maybe 5/6 games for the team begin to play the way I have set them to play, and then I get consistency and good results. If people change it as much as they make out they do then their players are going to be learning 3/4 new tactics every match

I am spending time in tactics because i love to build tactics and learn how the engine works.

You don't have to play through a season , reloading friendlies works okay , specially when you want to try some tricks , set traps, side overloads etc .

The game is hard not because you fail to win some matches but because all the time (outside match engine) it looks like it was built to torture you with annoyances .

Last night i bought a grand strategy game that is tough as hell ( supreme leader 2020) and although it will take me time to learn it the engine treats me like AI

Box is 100% right , managers with low CA should always use wrong tactics against you , AI club's scouts with low judgment should always sing crap players etc

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

Box is 100% right , managers with low CA should always use wrong tactics against you , AI club's scouts with low judgment should always sing crap players etc

I don't think they should always use the wrong tactics against you because that would mean there could never be a Barnsley - Chelsea easque surprise, which is part and parcel of football and should be incorporated.

In my first season at FC Bayern I won the German cup, the following season I went out in the first round to a non league team. Since then i've lost at most 3 games a season against lower CA managers and that is realisitic, if it was a matter of never losing against a lesser manager then SAF would win everything every year and never lose a game.

Losing against a manager with a lower CA than yourself is your own fault, it certainly was in my example with FC Bayern because I fielded a second string team thinking it would be an easy win. If SI made it easier i.e. made lower CA managers always make a mistake then it would be totally unrealistic, losing to an AI manager because we mess up is tiotally realistic.

As for signing crap players, it's well documented how often teams buy crap players for extorinate amounts so as far as i'm concerned that's already in game. The problem with your argument is that you want it to happen all the time, whereas even IRL crap managers sometimes get it right.

The problem is that a Barnsley-Chelsea surprise comes once a few seasons.

In FM, they come a couple of times within a season for the human player, and this kills the game because the human player is often always chasing the title, and with the AI being so supremely good at playing against itself, a few odd draws here and there costs the human player the title.

Originally posted by xiaoken777:

The problem is that a Barnsley-Chelsea surprise comes once a few seasons.

In FM, they come a couple of times within a season for the human player, and this kills the game because the human player is often always chasing the title, and with the AI being so supremely good at playing against itself, a few odd draws here and there costs the human player the title.

I'm 11 seasons into the game and I have suffered only one loss to a non league team in that time. I have lost at most 4 league games in one season (only ever losing to fellow title challengers) and have only ever lost in the CL to superior opposition. How come it doesn't happen in my game, but does happen in your game? It can't be because of the AI or surely I would have experienced exactly the thing you describe.

(I'm not being cheeky i'm just trying to say it as clearly as possible).