Torres is broken

Torres misses 9/10 alone with keeper, what is wrong with him and what can I go???

Sell him for 20-30 million at least, then buy Dzeko. Sorted.

At least he is not injured all the time as he is IRL. So I guess you have to sort out your tactics somehow.

Sell him for 20-30 million at least, then buy Dzeko. Sorted.

Because IRL Dzeko is so much better....NOT.

The game has one annoying feature there is no way Dzeko is better than Torres IRL. Torres is a World Cup winner, a Premiership Top Scorer Runner-up and has a very good scoring record for a top premiership team. Dzeko is playing in a lower league, scoring not as many and has proven nothing at International level. Yet in this game he seems better to everyone. Who the heck did the research on FM? A Dzeko lover?

Player interaction, team talks, tactics, player instructions. Tinker with them. Try different things.

The amount of threads/posts I see on here saying "xxx has 6 long shots but just scored" or "xxx has a Z in his name so can't beat the first man from a corner". It's no longer about picking a team and pressing play. You've got to manage people and situations. Football Manager.

It's harder than ever in my opinion, but I love it. I got bored too quickly of the old games, as I won everthing very quickly. This one- no chance.

... there is no way Dzeko is better than Torres IRL. Torres is a World Cup winner, a Premiership Top Scorer Runner-up and has a very good scoring record for a top premiership team. Dzeko is playing in a lower league, scoring not as many and has proven nothing at International level. Yet in this game he seems better to everyone. Who the heck did the research on FM? A Dzeko lover?

Torres came to England and became the things you listed. He wasn't any of them until he came. He was a great prospect and very much sought after, but hadn't achieved a great deal. Dzeko is the same. They're going on his potential, in the same way they Torres has always been good on FMs, not just until he joined Liverpool.

And I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I don't care. I'm just saying that your argument for Torres "being better" than Dzeko is all very relative indeed.

Torres misses 9/10 alone with keeper, what is wrong with him and what can I go???

It's not Torres that is wrong. It appears to be a change in focus in the ME, which has resulted in more 1v1's going the way of the keeper. It has also resulted in players with higher dribbling stats getting past defenders easier, so Torres' 17 should get him into more goalscoring opportunities if you are getting him enough service.

Another thing (which is highlighted by the ME tweaks in 11) is form, which was made much more pronounced in 09 IIRC. So if a player is in poor form, he will miss more 1v1's. Is Torres' match rating low? If so, try Interacting and telling him your not happy with his performances. Then drop him to the bench (I do not know if this works well in 11, it did in 10). Bring him on, and he will find the net.

Torres came to England and became the things you listed. He wasn't any of them until he came. He was a great prospect and very much sought after, but hadn't achieved a great deal. Dzeko is the same. They're going on his potential, in the same way they Torres has always been good on FMs, not just until he joined Liverpool.

And I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I don't care. I'm just saying that your argument for Torres "being better" than Dzeko is all very relative indeed.

I've never had the 2 together, and was almost able to sign Dzeko in January 2nd season in my Liverpool game, but lost out to Juve because I didn't have enough time to get him to put in a transfer request before January, and I had feck all money

Not broken on my save, he's banging them in and probably missing 1 or 2/10 1 on 1's.

Probably going through a baron spell.............bare/bear with him.......what season are in you in??

Plus got Dzeko along side him and they're 40/50 goal partnership. Don't mean to rub it in 'n' all

Torres came to England and became the things you listed. He wasn't any of them until he came. He was a great prospect and very much sought after, but hadn't achieved a great deal. Dzeko is the same. They're going on his potential, in the same way they Torres has always been good on FMs, not just until he joined Liverpool.

And I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I don't care. I'm just saying that your argument for Torres "being better" than Dzeko is all very relative indeed.

Torres was top scorer for his team in the second division when he started at Atletico Madrid. He also single handedly kept the team up once they got promoted. He was among the top Spanish scorers in the Spanish league before he came to England and only came because Benitez wanted him as every other manager was reluctant to buy a spanish player, much in the same way abroad they are reluctant to buy English players nowadays. He has proven himself and proved himself in Spain which is still and was at the time a higher reputation league than the one Dzeko is playing in. To place Dzeko as a match winner in FM is wrong, at least within the confines of a top league or team because he has not proven himself at a top league.

If you base your logic on the fact that FM has always been based on potential then players at Barcelona B should all be world class yet some of them have appalling stats. In fact why is the top scorer in the Polish league not considered as good as Dzeko is in game, to have an example.

My "argument" is not relative. There is evidence based on performances and a world cup winners medal.

Torres was top scorer for his team in the second division when he started at Atletico Madrid. He also single handedly kept the team up once they got promoted. He was among the top Spanish scorers in the Spanish league before he came to England and only came because Benitez wanted him as every other manager was reluctant to buy a spanish player, much in the same way abroad they are reluctant to buy English players nowadays. He has proven himself and proved himself in Spain which is still and was at the time a higher reputation league than the one Dzeko is playing in. To place Dzeko as a match winner in FM is wrong, at least within the confines of a top league or team because he has not proven himself at a top league.

If you base your logic on the fact that FM has always been based on potential then players at Barcelona B should all be world class yet some of them have appalling stats. In fact why is the top scorer in the Polish league not considered as good as Dzeko is in game, to have an example.

My "argument" is not relative. There is evidence based on performances and a world cup winners medal.

The world cup winners medal had very little to do with Torres though. He has never been top scorer in any league he has played in and he certainly wasn't 'among the top scoreres in Spain'- I believe the most he ever got in one season in Spain was 19. Never the less he is clearly better than Dzeko IRL. I am currently playing as Liverpool and he has done fine for me when played as a lone striker or paired with Levazzi

Torres was top scorer for his team in the second division when he started at Atletico Madrid. He also single handedly kept the team up once they got promoted. He was among the top Spanish scorers in the Spanish league before he came to England and only came because Benitez wanted him as every other manager was reluctant to buy a spanish player, much in the same way abroad they are reluctant to buy English players nowadays. He has proven himself and proved himself in Spain which is still and was at the time a higher reputation league than the one Dzeko is playing in. To place Dzeko as a match winner in FM is wrong, at least within the confines of a top league or team because he has not proven himself at a top league.

If you base your logic on the fact that FM has always been based on potential then players at Barcelona B should all be world class yet some of them have appalling stats. In fact why is the top scorer in the Polish league not considered as good as Dzeko is in game, to have an example.

My "argument" is not relative. There is evidence based on performances and a world cup winners medal.

I wasn't arguing over who was better, if you read. In fact, I stated that I don't care. I don't even rate Dzeko on the game, and for what it's worth I think Torres should be better than he is.

All I was saying is that Torres became the things you listed after joining Liverpool. Things that many other players could become upon joining a top side.

Re: the potential thing, I didn't say anything about FM "always being on potential". Stop putting words in people's mouths (posts?) just so that you can write big replies. Say something new and of worth, and people might listen.

Shh now.

The world cup winners medal had very little to do with Torres though. He has never been top scorer in any league he has played in and he certainly wasn't 'among the top scoreres in Spain'- I believe the most he ever got in one season in Spain was 19. Never the less he is clearly better than Dzeko IRL. I am currently playing as Liverpool and he has done fine for me when played as a lone striker or paired with Levazzi

Torres was third top national scorer the season he scored 19 goals. I said the top scorer for his team and he was. In fact Tamudo has always been there in the Spanish league and yet in FM he has never been classed to the level of Dzeko and that is clearly an oversight for FM.

I wasn't arguing over who was better, if you read. In fact, I stated that I don't care. I don't even rate Dzeko on the game, and for what it's worth I think Torres should be better than he is.

All I was saying is that Torres became the things you listed after joining Liverpool. Things that many other players could become upon joining a top side.

Re: the potential thing, I didn't say anything about FM "always being on potential". Stop putting words in people's mouths (posts?) just so that you can write big replies. Say something new and of worth, and people might listen.

Shh now.

Do you really see yourself as some kind of expert? The only one who should shh is you. In fact you keep putting words in people's mouths. I never made big replies, I simply stated facts. Something which you don't. For the last 2 editions Dzeko has been severely overrated. For some reason the researcher seems to consider him World Class, he has yet to prove it and until then he should not be so definining in-game.

Now Matthew I suggest you go and make yourself a tea and stop acting as a football pundit, we dont care.

Because IRL Dzeko is so much better....NOT.

The game has one annoying feature there is no way Dzeko is better than Torres IRL. Torres is a World Cup winner, a Premiership Top Scorer Runner-up and has a very good scoring record for a top premiership team. Dzeko is playing in a lower league, scoring not as many and has proven nothing at International level. Yet in this game he seems better to everyone. Who the heck did the research on FM? A Dzeko lover?

Doesn't matter who's better IRL, this thread was talking about the game.

I simply stated facts. Something which you don't

Calm down, Rafa.

In fact you keep putting words in people's mouths.

No I do not. Read the posts again. Or if you like I could continue quoting.

Do you really see yourself as some kind of expert?

Au contraire.

Now Matthew I suggest you go and make yourself a tea.

Thanks, I just did.

So, to summarise: I think I agreed with you on a lot of what you said, and went so far as saying Torres should surpass Dzeko's ingame ability. I just questioned your comparison of Torres to any player, not even Dzeko, given your relative parameters and timescale of comparison. This is a forum. Relax, big dog.

Torres scored masses for me in a brief Liverpool save. He very rarely missed a one-on-one. It's the same with Barrios in my current Dortmund save, so I don't think it's a match engine or game issue. My guess would be that it's to do with morale/motivation.

Edit: incidentally, I play(ed) both as Defensive Forwards, which I find works very well. You may want to try that, although it shouldn't make a difference to finishing when through on goal.

How can you say Dzeko hasn't proved anything at int level. He's got 16 in 30 which is pretty good going for a rubbish team in international football and would probably walk into 15 of the 20 premier league teams, the reason why on FM he gets noticed is cause he is easy to purchase with the transfer bug. Dunno why ppl are still playing the game it reminds me of ultimate soccer manager 2

Does anyone else have # Morning has brok-en, like the first morn-ing # in their head because of this thread title?

Calm down, Rafa.

No I do not. Read the posts again. Or if you like I could continue quoting.

Au contraire.

Thanks, I just did.

So, to summarise: I think I agreed with you on a lot of what you said, and went so far as saying Torres should surpass Dzeko's ingame ability. I just questioned your comparison of Torres to any player, not even Dzeko, given your relative parameters and timescale of comparison. This is a forum. Relax, big dog.

I simply compared Torres to Dzeko not any player. So its good to know you agree with my initial post which made the "argument" compltely unnecessary.

I read the thread title and was convinced it was Woy Hodgson!

How can you say Dzeko hasn't proved anything at int level. He's got 16 in 30 which is pretty good going for a rubbish team in international football and would probably walk into 15 of the 20 premier league teams, the reason why on FM he gets noticed is cause he is easy to purchase with the transfer bug. Dunno why ppl are still playing the game it reminds me of ultimate soccer manager 2

Suker did the same with Croatia and there are many other players who score a lot for "rubbish" teams yet they havent proved anything at International level. If he was that good he would single handedly qualify the team or near enough yet it hasnt happened. Shevchenko for instance got Ukraine quite far considering he was their only quality player for most of the time.

Excellent. Just to clarify, you do know that by "argument" I meant the: two or more people putting forward their opinions to fuel debate and interesting exchanges, rather than the: aggressive act of standing someone's ground over a point or concept?

Good.

try playing against torres, then tell me the evil goal scoring machine is broken -.-

Excellent. Just to clarify, you do know that by "argument" I meant the: two or more people putting forward their opinions to fuel debate and interesting exchanges, rather than the: aggressive act of standing someone's ground over a point or concept?

Good.

That is considered a debate, not an argument. An argument is an aggressive discussion over something.

That is considered a debate, not an argument. An argument is an aggressive discussion over something.

"... a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal".

I can't believe I just had to do that. An argument doesn't have to be aggressive. Least I didn't think so.

Anyway, we've all had a cup of tea. Let's leave semantics out of it.

Because IRL Dzeko is so much better....NOT.

The game has one annoying feature there is no way Dzeko is better than Torres IRL. Torres is a World Cup winner, a Premiership Top Scorer Runner-up and has a very good scoring record for a top premiership team. Dzeko is playing in a lower league, scoring not as many and has proven nothing at International level. Yet in this game he seems better to everyone. Who the heck did the research on FM? A Dzeko lover?

No way Dzeko is better? I agree, not better. But not (significantly) worse either. Don't get me wrong, but Dzeko's numbers have been outstanding for the last 3 year now. He can score in a variety of different ways and does so regularly. Dzeko needs 134 minutes per goal this season. Torres need 200. This is the comparison in the league.

Dzeko playing in a lower league? Are you kidding me? He is, as per the current UEFA 5 year standings, playing in the 3rd best league in Europe. So you are saying that a standout player in the 3rd best league cannot be rated at around 170 CA in this game? In that case I want De Rossi, Eto'o, Maicon, and a whole lot of players in the Italian league downgraded drastically, because the Italian league is even worse looking at the rankings.

I don't think you ever saw Dzeko play. And I am not a Wolfburg supporter at all. I just see this guy play regularly and he really is the monster (stat wise) he is in the game. Obviously the ME is favoring his skills too much which makes him overperform a bit, I agree with that.

He hasn't proven anything internationally? what do you expect? Bosnia winning the EC or the World Cup?

Torres was top scorer for his team in the second division when he started at Atletico Madrid. He also single handedly kept the team up once they got promoted. He was among the top Spanish scorers in the Spanish league before he came to England and only came because Benitez wanted him as every other manager was reluctant to buy a spanish player, much in the same way abroad they are reluctant to buy English players nowadays. He has proven himself and proved himself in Spain which is still and was at the time a higher reputation league than the one Dzeko is playing in. To place Dzeko as a match winner in FM is wrong, at least within the confines of a top league or team because he has not proven himself at a top league.

If you base your logic on the fact that FM has always been based on potential then players at Barcelona B should all be world class yet some of them have appalling stats. In fact why is the top scorer in the Polish league not considered as good as Dzeko is in game, to have an example.

My "argument" is not relative. There is evidence based on performances and a world cup winners medal.

Did you see Torres play (or rather vanish) at the WC? FYI the guy who scored the goals was a man called Villa, not Torres. Then, comparing the German league to the Polish league disqualifies you completely. After all, there was no Polish team in the Chamions League final last year, nor a team in the UEFA Cup Semis, was there?

The world cup winners medal had very little to do with Torres though. He has never been top scorer in any league he has played in and he certainly wasn't 'among the top scoreres in Spain'- I believe the most he ever got in one season in Spain was 19. Never the less he is clearly better than Dzeko IRL. I am currently playing as Liverpool and he has done fine for me when played as a lone striker or paired with Levazzi

Why do you think that scoring 19/20 goals a season for Liverpool or Athletico is a bigger feat than scoring 26 and 22 + now already 8 after 12 matches for Wolfsburg? In fact, at least since he is at Liverpool, Torres was the first option on attach for a team that surrounded him with some other close to world-class players. Dzeko on the other hand wasn't even the (single) first option in a good team that surprisingly won the league with just decent support players (Grafite was taking up a lot of opportunities you know). He clearly is now, and if it wasn'T for his goals Things would be far worse for Wolfsburg.

Oh, and just look at the DB CA as the beginning of the game. Torres has a higher CA, and Dzeko can merely match Torres' CA with his PA. In fact, Dzeko has a PA 12 points below Torres in the starting DB. as said, it is not the researcher's or Dzeko's fault that the ME currently prefer's the type of player Dzeko is.

Do you really see yourself as some kind of expert? The only one who should shh is you. In fact you keep putting words in people's mouths. I never made big replies, I simply stated facts. Something which you don't. For the last 2 editions Dzeko has been severely overrated. For some reason the researcher seems to consider him World Class, he has yet to prove it and until then he should not be so definining in-game.

Now Matthew I suggest you go and make yourself a tea and stop acting as a football pundit, we dont care.

You stated facts? Comparing the German league to the Polish league? Saying that Torres has provem himself internationally with the WC winners medal? Neglecting the fact that there are quite a few team out there thinking about splashing out 40 m€ for a guy you consider to by about as good as the top scorer in the polish league?

Your facts, in fact, are nothing else than your opinion. People may or may not share your opinion. I do in a way that I consider Torres to have more skills overall. As a pure scorer, I think Dzeko is just as good. This is reflected in the database, but obviously not as much in the ME. I did never have Torres on my team, but I'm pretty sure I could get this guy to have similar numbers to Dzeko (whom I bought for a lauchable 15 million € at the start of the 3rd season).

Its not just Torres.

A lot of one-on-ones are missed by any player, its a ME thing.

Ive got to LOL at some of the comments on here regarding Torres. Yes he's a good player but using him having a World Cup winners medal to justify that is some of the best comedy ive heard for years. Torres offered next to nothing at the World Cup and got a medal simply for being in the squad.

Does anybody remember Stéphane Guivarc'h? Striker for France at the 98 world cup and didnt even score a goal. He still got a World Cup winners medal. Does that make Guivarc'h better than Dzeko because he has a World Cup winners medal?

To be fair, I think Torres has a very low effectiveness in real life (goal/shots ratio).

As a Spanish guy myself I really hope that Fernando Llorente finally takes his place and Torres is relegated to the bench, as he's so much better than him.

I don't know about Liverpool, but here are the numbers for the Spanish National Team:

- List of Spanish players (in Spanish)

Torres has played 81 matches with Spain and only scored 26 goals, that is, 0.321 goals per match.

Ironically, Fernando Hierro (Spanish historical center back who played and was captain of Real Madrid for many years) scored 29 goals in 89 matches before retiring, that is, 0.326 goals per match. Yes, mate... a center back managed to pull a better goal scoring ratio than Torres in roughly the same number of matches. It's true that he used to take most penalty kicks, but stil... a center back.

Of course, comparing him to other strikers is just an excercise of humiliation: 0.638 for Villa (in only 69 matches), 0.431 for Raúl, heck even Julio Salinas (who wasn't the best of strikers so to say) managed to pull a 0.393 ratio in just 56 matches.

And he did pretty much the same in Atlético de Madrid. In his last two seasons before moving to Liverpool, he played everything (36 league matches and 4 cup matches) and scored 13 and 15 goals. That is, a 0.325 and a 0.375 ratio. Coincidentally, the year he moved away and allowed Agüero and Forlán to take the lead, Atlético boomed and their results improved a lot.

Now, I don't know what Benítez did to make him score 33 goals in his first season in England, and 22 goals in 33 matches wasn't bad for his last season either, but still, if you ask me... he just needs loads and loads of chances to just score one goal. Llorente, on the other hand, has already scored 7 goals in just 12 matches with the Spanish National Team, and he has come in as a sub in most of those matches, as (unfortunately) Torres is usually still the first choice striker for the starting eleven in most matches, despite his below-average performances.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he's a "bad" player by any means as he's got a lot of good qualities (such as his aerial play, his speed and a decent dribbling), but he's one of the most uneffective strikers I've ever seen at such high levels. He just misses one chance after another and it becomes desperating, then sometimes manages to rub one in at the last minute or something. Right now Llorente beats him in almost everything but pace and dribbling, being very superior to him in the air as well.

So when you say you can't score with him I just think about the matches I've seen of him with Spain, then look at the numbers, and think... "yep, sounds about right".

He seems vastly overrated and overhyped for me, but that's just my opinion

I have loved this thread.

Had Dzeko with Torres in FM10, TOTALLY AWESOME

Had Dzeko with Torres in FM10, TOTALLY AWESOME

Ah, but don't sit on the fence, WHICH ONE WAS BETTER???!!!

snip

Great post

<snip>

It is indeed a great post, I love it when myths are exploded with fact.

No way Dzeko is better? I agree, not better. But not (significantly) worse either. Don't get me wrong, but Dzeko's numbers have been outstanding for the last 3 year now. He can score in a variety of different ways and does so regularly. Dzeko needs 134 minutes per goal this season. Torres need 200. This is the comparison in the league.

Dzeko playing in a lower league? Are you kidding me? He is, as per the current UEFA 5 year standings, playing in the 3rd best league in Europe. So you are saying that a standout player in the 3rd best league cannot be rated at around 170 CA in this game? In that case I want De Rossi, Eto'o, Maicon, and a whole lot of players in the Italian league downgraded drastically, because the Italian league is even worse looking at the rankings.

I don't think you ever saw Dzeko play. And I am not a Wolfburg supporter at all. I just see this guy play regularly and he really is the monster (stat wise) he is in the game. Obviously the ME is favoring his skills too much which makes him overperform a bit, I agree with that.

He hasn't proven anything internationally? what do you expect? Bosnia winning the EC or the World Cup?

Did you see Torres play (or rather vanish) at the WC? FYI the guy who scored the goals was a man called Villa, not Torres. Then, comparing the German league to the Polish league disqualifies you completely. After all, there was no Polish team in the Chamions League final last year, nor a team in the UEFA Cup Semis, was there?

Why do you think that scoring 19/20 goals a season for Liverpool or Athletico is a bigger feat than scoring 26 and 22 + now already 8 after 12 matches for Wolfsburg? In fact, at least since he is at Liverpool, Torres was the first option on attach for a team that surrounded him with some other close to world-class players. Dzeko on the other hand wasn't even the (single) first option in a good team that surprisingly won the league with just decent support players (Grafite was taking up a lot of opportunities you know). He clearly is now, and if it wasn'T for his goals Things would be far worse for Wolfsburg.

Oh, and just look at the DB CA as the beginning of the game. Torres has a higher CA, and Dzeko can merely match Torres' CA with his PA. In fact, Dzeko has a PA 12 points below Torres in the starting DB. as said, it is not the researcher's or Dzeko's fault that the ME currently prefer's the type of player Dzeko is.

You stated facts? Comparing the German league to the Polish league? Saying that Torres has provem himself internationally with the WC winners medal? Neglecting the fact that there are quite a few team out there thinking about splashing out 40 m€ for a guy you consider to by about as good as the top scorer in the polish league?

Your facts, in fact, are nothing else than your opinion. People may or may not share your opinion. I do in a way that I consider Torres to have more skills overall. As a pure scorer, I think Dzeko is just as good. This is reflected in the database, but obviously not as much in the ME. I did never have Torres on my team, but I'm pretty sure I could get this guy to have similar numbers to Dzeko (whom I bought for a lauchable 15 million € at the start of the 3rd season).

How many European competitions have Italian teams won and how many have German teams won? Says it all. UEFA coeficients do nothing as they are based purely on modern data. Italy has gone through an economical bust hence the poor positioning however the Italian league is far stornger than the German league in terms of numbers. There are at least 5 or 6 teams who can win it, in Germany its always a case of will Bayern Munich win it or not. The rest simply make up the numbers and are never able to maintain a constant challenge. Borussia Dortmund were up there then collapsed, Werder Bramen the same, Kaiserslautern equally adept. The case is Dzeko cannot be considered so good in game, he has not proven anything IRL at a top team or International stage, be it European or World Championships. Torres has at both and won both. Case over really.

Torres is better than Dzeko though. There's a significant CA cap between them, with Torres being rated as one of the best strikers around and Dzeko in the category below that.

Torres is better than Dzeko though. There's a significant CA cap between them, with Torres being rated as one of the best strikers around and Dzeko in the category below that.

I agree with that but Dzeko had a better strike rate for my Sunderland side than Torres did for my Liverpool side. Then again so did Bent, Gyan and Campbell.

My "argument" is not relative. There is evidence based on performances and a world cup winners medal.

Haha he was Spains worst player at the world cup

To be fair, I think Torres has a very low effectiveness in real life (goal/shots ratio).

As a Spanish guy myself I really hope that Fernando Llorente finally takes his place and Torres is relegated to the bench, as he's so much better than him.

I don't know about Liverpool, but here are the numbers for the Spanish National Team:

- List of Spanish players (in Spanish)

Torres has played 81 matches with Spain and only scored 26 goals, that is, 0.321 goals per match.

Ironically, Fernando Hierro (Spanish historical center back who played and was captain of Real Madrid for many years) scored 29 goals in 89 matches before retiring, that is, 0.326 goals per match. Yes, mate... a center back managed to pull a better goal scoring ratio than Torres in roughly the same number of matches. It's true that he used to take most penalty kicks, but stil... a center back.

Of course, comparing him to other strikers is just an excercise of humiliation: 0.638 for Villa (in only 69 matches), 0.431 for Raúl, heck even Julio Salinas (who wasn't the best of strikers so to say) managed to pull a 0.393 ratio in just 56 matches.

And he did pretty much the same in Atlético de Madrid. In his last two seasons before moving to Liverpool, he played everything (36 league matches and 4 cup matches) and scored 13 and 15 goals. That is, a 0.325 and a 0.375 ratio. Coincidentally, the year he moved away and allowed Agüero and Forlán to take the lead, Atlético boomed and their results improved a lot.

Now, I don't know what Benítez did to make him score 33 goals in his first season in England, and 22 goals in 33 matches wasn't bad for his last season either, but still, if you ask me... he just needs loads and loads of chances to just score one goal. Llorente, on the other hand, has already scored 7 goals in just 12 matches with the Spanish National Team, and he has come in as a sub in most of those matches, as (unfortunately) Torres is usually still the first choice striker for the starting eleven in most matches, despite his below-average performances.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he's a "bad" player by any means as he's got a lot of good qualities (such as his aerial play, his speed and a decent dribbling), but he's one of the most uneffective strikers I've ever seen at such high levels. He just misses one chance after another and it becomes desperating, then sometimes manages to rub one in at the last minute or something. Right now Llorente beats him in almost everything but pace and dribbling, being very superior to him in the air as well.

So when you say you can't score with him I just think about the matches I've seen of him with Spain, then look at the numbers, and think... "yep, sounds about right".

He seems vastly overrated and overhyped for me, but that's just my opinion

To bring up the old Spanish players who never really proved anything is a joke. Llorente has proven nothing at International or League stage for that matter, he's not even in the same league as say Villa. If you really want to bring up numbers then look up Fernando Morientes, he who was awful at Liverpool yet excelled at Monaco and helped Madrid to three European Finals. His goals ratio for Spain is a lot better than Torres or Salinas. To consider Hierro in this is a joke, to start with he was a great player but there was so much favouritism towards the Big 2 in Spain that he was always picked regardless of form. One man ended this favouritism (Aragones) and slowly its started to creep back in.

Haha he was Spains worst player at the world cup

He didnt play but he was part of the squad and the other players said on numerous occassions that they loved having him around. Building a successful team is not only about the playing but the team morale. In FM you get those comments like "Enjoys playing with x" or "Proud that x is at the club". This is where morale is helped and Torres did a lot to help Spain win the World Cup.

Take the example of England, Terry was detrimental to the squad morale, he annoyed most of the team members and unsurprisingly since the World Cup he always happens to be injured at selection time. Interesting that.

Even Rooney was a negative and Torres being injured still did more than Rooney did playing!

He didnt play. He still did better than Rooney by not playing!

He didn't play? What the hell were you watching?

He played in ALLLLLLL 7 matches

And if you honestly thought he didn't play...what has a world cup winners medal got to do with him being good?

Who cares about Rooney?

How many European competitions have Italian teams won and how many have German teams won? Says it all. UEFA coeficients do nothing as they are based purely on modern data. Italy has gone through an economical bust hence the poor positioning however the Italian league is far stornger than the German league in terms of numbers. There are at least 5 or 6 teams who can win it, in Germany its always a case of will Bayern Munich win it or not. The rest simply make up the numbers and are never able to maintain a constant challenge. Borussia Dortmund were up there then collapsed, Werder Bramen the same, Kaiserslautern equally adept. The case is Dzeko cannot be considered so good in game, he has not proven anything IRL at a top team or International stage, be it European or World Championships. Torres has at both and won both. Case over really.

This betrays a terrible ignorance of German football, it is one of the closest leagues in Europe now and is certainly not a case if Bayern losing it or not. 3 or 4 different winners in the last 6/7 years is more than England, Spain or Italy can boast.

And for the record, Italian teams have won 25 European trophies to Germany's 17, only 8 different but if you remove the best from each country (Milan and Munich) the difference is down to only 5. Not a lot at all.

On a personal note, if I was asked if I wanted a season ticket for any club in Europe, I would likely choose a German club just because of the atmosphere and highly competitive football guaranteed.

To consider Hierro in this is a joke, to start with he was a great player but there was so much favouritism towards the Big 2 in Spain that he was always picked regardless of form.

Can't you read? I've clearly pointed out that they've played almost the same number of matches. There's no joke here, only oneof the most goal scoring center backs in history compared to one of the less effective strikers. I'm just pointing out facts.

He didnt play but he was part of the squad and the other players said on numerous occassions that they loved having him around. Building a successful team is not only about the playing but the team morale. In FM you get those comments like "Enjoys playing with x" or "Proud that x is at the club". This is where morale is helped and Torres did a lot to help Spain win the World Cup.

Take the example of England, Terry was detrimental to the squad morale, he annoyed most of the team members and unsurprisingly since the World Cup he always happens to be injured at selection time. Interesting that.

Even Rooney was a negative and Torres being injured still did more than Rooney did playing!

Cut the crap. He played, he was rubbish. End of.

Wait, he didn't play? So you didn't even watch the matches... ok. Case closed.

probably because the liverpool researcher or SI have had a mare

Torres is a world class player.. had a bad start to the season so they probably downrated him... BIG ERROR

Amazing what kind of football you guys watch, must be on a playstation or something.

German football always has Bayern as favourites, they will always be favourites to win. When they lose someone else has a chance, its rarely ever the same team hence why you have so many different Champions. Its not a good thing as Bayern are always the challengers to all these winners meaning that Bayern are superior to all and the rest simply prop up the table. Think of it like the Scootish league but without 1 of either Rangers or Celtic. Also I would not class Milan as the biggest Italian team, Juventus and Inter have a far more illustrious history in Italy although Milan have had the means since Mr Berlusconi took over and he has aided them to deliver.

Torres did not start all 7 World Cup games, he played bit parts in most of those games as he was injured. He contributed off the field as did Reina who provided the passion and contributed with emotional support. This is a fact and every single Spanish World Cup player acknowledges the contribution made by Torres to the team. the numbers should also be brought with Fernando Morientes who has fantastic goals to games ratio for Spain and would have been top scorer had he played more games. Both Hierro and Raul played more games than Villa and therefore more of a chance at scoring more goals. The ig 2 favouritism I was on about meaning they were always selected, irrespective of form.

ronaldo_rooney, I'm guessing you're a Man Utd fan, if not it doesnt matter but Torres contributed more to Spain in qualifiers, European Championships which they won, he scored the winning goal in the final and in the World Cup where he assisted to at least 2 goals. He was not rubbish, if you define a player simply by goals scored then Defoe or Bent should be playing at Milan, Madrid or Barcelona and I dont see any of them lining up for them.

probably because the liverpool researcher or SI have had a mare

Torres is a world class player.. had a bad start to the season so they probably downrated him... BIG ERROR

The same researcher who has put both Xavi and Iniesta with woeful stamina when in fact they play every single game for Barcelon and Spain barring injury. Yet in FM you struggle to have them last the full 90 mins.

Wait, he didn't play? So you didn't even watch the matches... ok. Case closed.

I watched the matches. He didnt start all the games, bit parts in most.He contributed 2 assists. Its more than other "world class" players contributed.