My Big Fat FM08 Thread

My Big Fat FM08 Post.

Note : I've been working on this for a fair old amount of time, so please excuse any gaps in information, or changes in text attitude throughout the post

Intro

I'm basically writing this post for a number of reasons. Mainly to get across a lot of my views on the game, and the series, but also to incorporate a lot of the changes I feel needed in the game. I know there are separate places that each could be placed, but I'd prefer if I could just compound everything into 1 post. Also, on the agenda, will be a few answers to a lot of the more popular asked questions. I understand that may prove worthless, if the thread dies out, or just doesn't get read, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Conents

Sector 1 - In Game Issues

-Transfers

-Youth Players / Camps

-Player P.A / C.A

Sector 2 - Records and Statistics

-Player Records

-Team Records

-Player Histories

-Player Statistics (Season Carry over)

-Manager Records

Sector 3 - Graphic Design

Sector 4 - Important Threads

Sector 5 - These Forums

Sector 6 - Typical Questions Answered

Sector 1 - In Game Issues

Transfers

Issue - I've attempted to sign a 16 year old Canadian (I'm AFC Wimbledon, in the the Blue Square Premier) - And it says he can't sign until he is 18. (Or at least his "will join AFC Wimbledon on DD/MM/YY" is the same as his 18th birthday) - I have an issue here, as I am attempting to sign the player from a free transfer. He currently has, and has never had any club. So my problem is, why can't he still come to my club and train? He's going to be out of any football action for nearly 18 months - and with no training, by that time he could be a lot worse for wear when he eventually signs.

youth Players / Camps - See "Important threads section for my views on this subject

Player P.A / C.A - See "Important threads section for my views on this subject

Alongside the issue stated there, its widely known that the AI "bump" their prices when a human manager is involved in the transfer. This seems largely illogical that an AI team can firstly distinct the difference between a human manager, and an AI manager, as it should not have the power to do so.

Sector 2 - Records and statistics

Player Records

So far, there are minimal amounts of Player records available. 16, to be exact. In a world where stats and records are thrived upon, and the fact that FM is a statistically based game, this stuns me. I'm one of the people that love to go 'overboard' on things like this, and take much pleasure in reading Dafuge's FM08 Records Thread from time to time, just to compare stats and records, that should be already included i the game. Of the records there, I do feel the game would benefit from a core group of records being added, along with a whole host of potentially useless ones. One of the other main factors missing with the records, is the fact that you only get to see the Number 1 record holder. I would absolutely love to see a top 5, maybe even a top 10 list of the record holders for any particular record.

Player Records I'd like to see included -

Top 5 All Time Club Scorers

Top 5 All Time Club Appearances

Top 5 All Time Club Assists

Top 5 All Time Man of the Match Awards

Top 5 "Goals in a Season"*

Top 5 "Season Appearances"

Top 5 "Assists in a Season"

Top 5 "MotM Awards"

**All records included from here on, I would like to see a "Top 5" list for. (Otherwise, I'm going to have to write out "Top 5" for all the records I note )

*** I also feel all records should be Season AND Career records. For example, the "Most shots on target" record could be something like

Most shots on target in a single season - Joe Bloggs - 82 Shots on target - 2009/2010

All Time Shots on target - Joe Bloggs - 534 Shots on target (2008 - 2014)****

Most Hat-Tricks in a season

Most Hat-Tricks in a row

Most Career Hat-Tricks

Most consecutive Games scored in (E.G - Joe Bloggs, 7 Consecutive Games (12 Goals) )

Most consecutive games assisted in (E.G - Gordon Benett, 3 Consecutive Games (4 Assists) )

Most Passes Attempted in a season

Most Passes successful in a season

Most Shots in a season

Most shots on target in a season

Most shots off target in a season

Most Consecutive Clean Sheets (GK Records)

Most Consecutive games conceded in (GK Records)

Most Consecutive games played (Joe Bloggs - 32 Games)

Most consecutive minutes on the pitch (Joe Bloggs - 2357 minutes)

Most Tackles Attempted in a season

Most successful tackles in a season

Most awards won by a single player (Joe Bloggs, 17 awards)

Youngest Scorer

Oldest Scorer

Quickest Goal Scorer (Joe Bloggs, 39 Seconds)

International Records - Would also be something similar to this.

*Currently, we have "Joe Bloggs - 35 2009/2010"

I would like to see

1. Joe Bloggs - 35 2009/2010

2. John Smith - 33 2012/2013

3. George Brown - 32 2008/2009 etc.

And the same for "Season Appearances, Assists, Man of the Match Awards"

**** - You can see here, I've put the opening and closing years of the player record in brackets. This is something I've always wanted put into the game, but there hasn't been much demand for.

Thats the player records pretty much covered. I'm sure there are a fair amount I've missed out, but they are the core group of records that I really would love to see, especially the "Top 5" sections.

Now for the confusing part

Not so much confusing, as possibly a lot of work. But I would love to see all the records for "Club" - but also by competition. IRL, on a Champs League day, sometimes Sky Sports may show - "Arsenal Top 5 Champions League Scorers". Why can't we have this in FM? I would love a drop down menu to sort all these records into the following categories...

[Club Records]

[League Records] + Specific Leagues (I.E - If the club was in Division 2, but got promoted, I'd like to see Div. 2 AND Div. 1 Records)

[Cup Records] + Specific Cup (I.E - F.A Cup, League Cup, Brazillian Super Cup, etc etc etc)

I know thats probably a huge amount of work, but its something that I would drool over were it ever to be included.

Team Records

Much the same as Player records really, where I'd just like to see a whole bunch of team records added, along with the records being broken down into specific competitions.

(I.E - "Biggest Win" - 9-1 / League 9-1 / F.A Cup 3-0 / League Cup 4-1 etc etc)

Records I would like to see added -

Consecutive Games Scored in.

Consecutive Games Conceded in.

Minutes without conceding

Minutes without scoring

Most own goals in a single season

Best start to a season (10 Games)

Worst start to a season (10 Games)

Highest Passing % in a single game

Highest Passing % in a single season

(Same as above for Crossing, Possession, Tackling and Heading)

Fastest Club Goal

Most Hat-tricks in a season (18 Club hat-tricks)

Again, I'm sure there are many more I've forgotten - but there's a group I would like to see added.

Player Histories

Something people seem to be in a tussle over. I would personally like to see the total goals / assists / motm etc in the player history, over ALL COMPETITIONS. I know some people don't like this idea, but surely we can have the option of both? It wouldn't be too hard to add a drop down menu with the option of "League Only - All" in it, would it? I know there's a few follow forumites that strongly agree with me here, but there's also a few that strongly disagree. So the drop down menu would satisfy both.

Player Statistics

Something I've never seen mentioned before, but I think is important. Currently, in the player stats section, it will give you information such as "Minutes since last goal" - 956 minutes. Thats great, except, at the start of the new season, this stat is reset. I had a player (Striker) who played over 20 hours without a goal, and now the new season has started, (and he still hasn't scored in over 10 hours more) - I can't prove that he played 20 hours without a goal, since the stat is no longer there. So could we please have a carry over in player stats on that screen please.

Manager Records

Finally, for this section, I'd like to bring some attention to manager records. Currently, there are a few "stats" in the mangers information screen, but I'd like to see some sort of table for these stats, to compare against the other managers in the FM world. (Yes, I know there is already some form of this, but not in a "record" format, and merely a statistics page)

Sector 3 - Graphic Design

Not a massive section here, just a few little thoughts I'd had on the graphic design while traipsing through the Graphics forum.

-It took me an age to learn a few little .xml codes to change around the layout of my "Team Selection" screen so it would look like

this - but I'd like to be able to have the option of changing the columns on this screen, without having to edit the skin. It's possible in the Manager Overview screen to change things around, so why not here?

Sector 4 - Important Threads

Just a list of threads containing discussions I feel important to the game.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/5382040104 - "Advice from fellow managers" - nearly didn't include it, but the discussion there is admirable. A great thread containing helpful info into the FM World.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/4502093472 - Cleons "Unofficial Tactics Bible" - Contains threads deemed important in the T&TT Forum. Only the best discussions about tactics make it in here.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/717198912/m/2102058104 - Genie Scout 3 - Beta Thread, for those that use it.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/717198912/m/3722049283 - FMM Thread, again, for those who use it.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717...312046582#7312046582 - MTK's Training Guide - A breakdown of the attributes needed to get the 7* Training Set. Also so great information on Training.

"Corner Cheat - Debates" - Just a couple of threads, involving some information on the impact of the Corner Exploit

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/9342010204 - Best Player to Exploit the Corner Cheat

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/4092049104 - Is Challenge Keeper Cheating?

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8812060104 - What the hell, a 19 year old retiring? - A thread much unused. Exposes a big whole in the FM world.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8432066004 - North American Regens - Discussing the abnormal amount of talented North American Regens.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/6472066004 - FM09 - Can we finally have match results actually affected by player skill? - A great debate about the way the Match Engine works.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8522036693 - FM09 - Graphic Speak Louder than words.! - Mock Ups Included

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/5902011993 - People don't want 3d engine because they have no faith in si - Started out about SI, ended up a 2d match engine debate. A good read.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8462086783 - Why an "Unsackable" option would be beneficial to players and si

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8932083393 - "Unstoppable Stikers"

Please note - I'm sure I've missed out a whole host of threads deemed important. Please excuse me on this one. I had all the threads I thought deserved here in a separate text file, and for some bizarre reason, it just wont open. There are also 3 threads, relating back to FM07 (and include FM08) that are no longer on the boards. If you feel there is a thread that could be added here, please let me know, and I'll get a Moderator to include it.

Sector 5 - These Forums

Ok, so the change is happening "imminently". But aside from that, what the hell is going on with the forums? When I first joined these forums, (pre-dating my actual registration date, I was a reader of the forums for many years before deciding to register) - it was the most helpful, friendly place, where people could get into a discussion without all hell breaking loose. What happened there? By and large, a lot of errors people have stems from the new era of 3rd party resources, and the "am I cheating" debate rages on regardless. But lets start having a little decorum on the forum, and being a bit kinder to our forumites. Remember, the new people on here may not know where to go. Yes, they should have read the rules, but lets be honest, who ACTUALLY reads them when they join? Give the newbies a bit of a break, and lets start acting like a community to bring this place back to life, and start making FM fun again.

I hope you enjoyed my thread, and I hope its not too boring to read.

Damn it. Forgot sector 6. Will be added later when I get home.

OK. now thats just poor form on my behalf. Also forgot the youth sections in sector 1. Sigh. Lots of work left. was happy when I thought I'd finished it.

Good so far Nep. Definately lik the ideas about the records -thats one thing I would also like to see improved

And Nep, don't forget this thread.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/9192054193 - MLS in FM/WWMS: What's wrong, and how to fix it

I'm biased to include this thread but whatever

And I agree with your points, I would want more records in the game.

That was a good read Nep, and some thoroughly thought out ideas I particularly agree with the stats, I LOVE stats, I can't get enough of them, so the more included, the better for me! I think its brilliant when you're watching a game on tv and the commentator gives you these little tit bits, its fascinating!

:clap: :clap: Nep that is awesome, I love the idea of more stats I have pretty much worked on compiling mine on an Excel spreadsheet and working it from there which takes for ever but at least I have some sort of stats.

As for the forum, I have noticed it too, and I grabbed myself when I slipped into ripping someone out, and have tried to be nicer about it since, all around I think you have excellent ideas, and as an extension on the player not coming until his 18th birthday, I got one contracted as you showed, but then 3 days short of the birthday he retired because of lack of interest...

I agree with there being a need for more stats and more customisable team (and other) screens. I'd also agree that Human Managers should be on the same footing as the AI when it comes to transfers.

I'd also like to see better decision making from players in regards to contracts. Reputation matters aside, if I offer a player a high wage and a key role AND he list the team as a favourite due to being on loan with us for the last three years, why does he reject it to take on a bit part with lower wages at a club lower down the pyramid?

And when he does, can I at least know the reason why? Sometimes you get a reason, (training facilities, etc.) but a lot of the time it feels completely random.

Now I play by strict LLM rules and so am used to these sorts of things but the game needs to give us more infomation - loads of it. If you don't want to read it you don't have to, but it should be there for those of us who do.

Wow, that's some post. Well done for taking the time out for this. I admit I scanned over some of the more cosmetic things like records and graphics, as these things will develop however SI want them to without our input.

Couple of responses to your more solid points, though:

Alongside the issue stated there, its widely known that the AI "bump" their prices when a human manager is involved in the transfer

I disagree with this, to a point. Yes, if no one else in interested you do end up paying a premium. However, a club's valuation fluctuates on the game, same as real life. I have a couple of examples(playing as Chelski): 1) I tried signing Micah Richards for 2 seasons, but with my self-imposed challenge I couldn't pay what Man City were demanding despite having the money in the coffers (they wanted 60M+ for him). I got him 3rd season for £38m + 25% sell-on, which in the scheme of the game is quite reasonable for this player. 2) I tried to sign Breno in the 2013 summer transfer window from Lazio and was quoted £45m. Again, I was unable to sign him for that amount. In January, Barca had a £32m bid accepted, and this was just inside my limit. Lazio ACCEPTED my £32m bid, which is a £13m drop.

So I don't think the game conspires against the human in the transfer market any more than it does with the match engine, which is not at all. The market is merely unrealistic in general, but it IS fairly consistent IMO.

Sector 4 - Important Threads

A sticky at the top with "well worn" subjects and links to the most active threads would suffice here, I think. It's annoying reading all these "HELP ME" threads and finding out it's another whinge about chairmen not appreciating the fact you put out a weakened team against Bognor and THAT's why you drew 1-1.

what the hell is going on with the forums?

What happened is X-Factor, Xbox and, before that, Watchdog. People demand instant success - especially the younger ones - and if they don't get it they kick off. It's modern life. With Xbox (and similar) consoles, most games are about skill, and if you play them long enough you get better and better, and you master them; FM isn't like that because it evolves along with you, and unlike platform games and the like when you start a new game you can't just repeat what you did last time and have the same success. And finally, Watchdog inspired a generation of people to complain, complain, complain, which seems to have passed down to the new internet generation. (I used to be a manager in a shop, and the number of idiots complaining about non-existent faults and trying to get money back through technicalities that they THOUGHT were law was unbelievable). Combined with the annonimity of these forums it's easy to kick off and vent your spleen when, actually, there's not that much worth yelling about.

In short, I agree this place should be a resource and not a slanging match. Good point.

I'm sure others will have comments about your remaining content.

Originally posted by backpackant:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Alongside the issue stated there, its widely known that the AI "bump" their prices when a human manager is involved in the transfer

I disagree with this, to a point. Yes, if no one else in interested you do end up paying a premium. However, a club's valuation fluctuates on the game, same as real life. I have a couple of examples(playing as Chelski): 1) I tried signing Micah Richards for 2 seasons, but with my self-imposed challenge I couldn't pay what Man City were demanding despite having the money in the coffers (they wanted 60M+ for him). I got him 3rd season for £38m + 25% sell-on, which in the scheme of the game is quite reasonable for this player. 2) I tried to sign Breno in the 2013 summer transfer window from Lazio and was quoted £45m. Again, I was unable to sign him for that amount. In January, Barca had a £32m bid accepted, and this was just inside my limit. Lazio ACCEPTED my £32m bid, which is a £13m drop.

So I don't think the game conspires against the human in the transfer market any more than it does with the match engine, which is not at all. The market is merely unrealistic in general, but it IS fairly consistent IMO.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree somewhat with both points. the AI does ask for more on occasion. can't remember who off the top of my head, but i had a £21M bid rejected, then a rival bid £14.5M and it was accepted. i bid £16.5M and it was negotiated for £24.5M. although i reduced this to £19.75M and it was accepted, i was a little annoyed.

in another example, man utd bid £32M for daniel alves who i had unsettled and appeared on his favorued personel. obviously my equal bid was rejected, but i really didn't want united to get him, so i threw £45M at sevilla. after the deal was done, i was so fed up with the transfer system i honestly didn't play that gamesave for about 4 months.

valuation is based on performance for my players, it should be the same for AI managed players. if it worked both ways and my £15M player had hid £30M asking price matched because his performances were superb, i wouldn't mind. it's as if because the AI knows PA, the asking price is set according to this. unless i use external programs, i won't know PA, i'll conclude from performances and stat development.

a couple of ideas i had

i would love to see more in depth training feedback. instead of a monthly "he did well; he didn't" from the assman, each coach could report on how their training has gone, who has improved and where etc. they could also report when they feel a schedule should be adjusted accoring to previous performances. there should also be a separate youth team training report each month.

i would also like to see ppms appear according to where a player is playing, instead of linking to a tutor, which doesn't always work. for example, a player with no ppms who plays on the right wing and is intructed to "run with ball" should develop "knocks ball past opponent" & "runs with ball down the right" if his flair & dribbling stats are high. a player with 20 for long shots should gain "shoots from range" automatically. 90% of regens don't have any ppms, in fm07 nearly every CB had "shoots from range", which was pointless if i set them to defensive with no forward runs.

Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Issue - I've attempted to sign a 16 year old Canadian (I'm AFC Wimbledon, in the the Blue Square Premier) - And it says he can't sign until he is 18. (Or at least his "will join AFC Wimbledon on DD/MM/YY" is the same as his 18th birthday) - I have an issue here, as I am attempting to sign the player from a free transfer. He currently has, and has never had any club. So my problem is, why can't he still come to my club and train? He's going to be out of any football action for nearly 18 months - and with no training, by that time he could be a lot worse for wear when he eventually signs.

Is this not to do with uk immigration law?

This seems largely illogical that an AI team can firstly distinct the difference between a human manager, and an AI manager, as it should not have the power to do so.

Wrong, SI have stated many times that the AI can't differentiate between human & AI

The rest of the ideas are good.

Originally posted by Michael Foster:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Issue - I've attempted to sign a 16 year old Canadian (I'm AFC Wimbledon, in the the Blue Square Premier) - And it says he can't sign until he is 18. (Or at least his "will join AFC Wimbledon on DD/MM/YY" is the same as his 18th birthday) - I have an issue here, as I am attempting to sign the player from a free transfer. He currently has, and has never had any club. So my problem is, why can't he still come to my club and train? He's going to be out of any football action for nearly 18 months - and with no training, by that time he could be a lot worse for wear when he eventually signs.

Is this not to do with uk immigration law?

This seems largely illogical that an AI team can firstly distinct the difference between a human manager, and an AI manager, as it should not have the power to do so.

Wrong, SI have stated many times that the AI can't differentiate between human & AI

The rest of the ideas are good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Yes, its due to players not being able to play until they are 18. But, whats wrong with him training with the club? Or at least, training with ANY Club.? IRL, if the same situation arises, the player would sign a contract with the club, then be "loaned" out to a club in a league where he can actually play. (Almost like a feeder team). So in this case, I sign him, then he has 2 years to play at another club.

As for the second point, I know what SI have stated, and I wont delve to much into it, but there is a clear, and unsettling bias towards Human Managers in the Transfer system.

Some nice ideas there, I too am a fan of stats and records and would love to see a few more like the ones you've mentioned added to the game.

i like using the forum every now and then but this is just pure gay

you would have to spend so much time making this!

Originally posted by D-Wight:

i like using the forum every now and then but this is just pure gay

you would have to spend so much time making this!

Just because somebody has a healthy interest in something like what Nep has been talking about, that someone else might find 'boring' doesn't mean it's 'gay'.

Originally posted by D-Wight:

i like using the forum every now and then but this is just pure gay

you would have to spend so much time making this!

What a mature, helpful contribution!

It's threads like this that the forum actually needs. And if that makes me 'gay', then so be it.

Originally posted by D-Wight:

i like using the forum every now and then but this is just pure gay

you would have to spend so much time making this!

Because we want to make the game better, and all these threads will give SI ideas to make FM09 a lot better than FM08.

Originally posted by D-Wight:

i like using the forum every now and then but this is just pure gay

you would have to spend so much time making this!

Comments like that are not welcome here.

On the subject of distinguishing AI and human managers when negotiating new transfers, I would argue that it's entirely necessary. Apart from the occasional headline transfer rumours about big names on shortlists, negotiations between AI managers should be a straightforward "your min price is lower than my max valuation [accounting for any weightings due to rivalries or competition objectives], therefore we are prepared to do business - let's see what the player thinks" to keep it as simple and undemanding on processors as possible.

The problem is that the algorithm for human manager negotiations doesn't allow for a bidding process resulting in outcomes which even closely resemble this.

Dammit!! Just wrote a huge post and it got deleted before I could post!

Basically well done Nep, great thread

Hope the people at SI consider a lot of what's been said here. Nice of Nep to round up the important threads too

I'd like to see the Best Eleven feature improved (as would many - looking at you Jimbo ). It needs to take into account further factors than just appearances and average ratings. If you are taking a club from lower leagues upwards it is common to find many of your Best Eleven remain in tact for years despite the fact that since you've been promoted, far better players have played for you (but just not racked up hundreds of appearances). Basically I hope this is improved as at the moment on one of my saves I have players in the Best Eleven from the first few seasons in Div 2 of Croatia. In the last 10 years I've been dominating the Croatian league and nearly won the Champions League - yet only a couple of players from recent years are in the Best Eleven. This isn't realistic as I'd expect more talented players to make the grade, particularly if they did something spectacular like reach a Champions League final.

Anyway rant over, well done Nep - nice of you to compile all the important threads too

Good work Nep.

Agree almost word for word on the whole records thing. Especially if you manage a club for a long time, useless trivia is nice to look back over, and it currently just skims the surface of what could be available.

I'm fairly sure I disagree entirely with you on player CA/PA mind you

I think your sad. Just play the game and enjoy

Originally posted by roooonaldooo:

I think your sad. Just play the game and enjoy

My, what a helpful post.

Brilliant thread tbh. Very well thought out and quite constructive. It's threads like this that will help the game move forward. Moaners take note. Well done Nep.

As for your ideas I think they are generally very good. Maybe I would like more development on ideas for the Graphics side of the game. That mock-up that bloke did was very good and was easy on the eyes. Just because it looks good doesn't mean it is gimmicky.

Also, very good point about the forums. They are quite hostile at times. You need look no further then the LLM forum for that. Even the mods in there are quite hostile sometimes. I know of a number of people who are LLM but refuse to use the thread. Keeps the numbers to a minimum in there...but then, maybe, thats what that they want.

Thanks for your input everyone whos actually bothered to read this thread. It means a lot to me

Although I did expect little response to this, due to its size, I did however expect a lot more input form the forumites with extra stats and what not that they would like to see. So if theres something I've missed, and you feel would be a great addition, please feel free to add it.

Isn't their another Sector to be added?

Originally posted by GreenEagle16:

Isn't their another Sector to be added?

yes, I'm working on it

Originally posted by roooonaldooo:

I think your sad. Just play the game and enjoy

That means that somebody owns 'sad'. Surely you mean you're. I guess I'm sad to mention this. Oh hum

Originally posted by roooonaldooo:

I think your sad. Just play the game and enjoy

So we should all follow your rules, huh?

My advice would be 'play the game, enjoy, if you feel inclined to share your thoughts with other fans of the game, do so.'

1. Yes, its due to players not being able to play until they are 18. But, whats wrong with him training with the club? Or at least, training with ANY Club.? IRL, if the same situation arises, the player would sign a contract with the club, then be "loaned" out to a club in a league where he can actually play. (Almost like a feeder team). So in this case, I sign him, then he has 2 years to play at another club.

I think he would not be allowed to be employed by the club, and neither would he be allowed into the country for the purposes of employment. I would say that the current situation is realistic.

Interesting read Nep, and I agree on most points apart from the 1 pelicanstuff points out above.

Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

1. Yes, its due to players not being able to play until they are 18. But, whats wrong with him training with the club? Or at least, training with ANY Club.? IRL, if the same situation arises, the player would sign a contract with the club, then be "loaned" out to a club in a league where he can actually play. (Almost like a feeder team). So in this case, I sign him, then he has 2 years to play at another club.

I think he would not be allowed to be employed by the club, and neither would he be allowed into the country for the purposes of employment. I would say that the current situation is realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regardless of employment, I could sign a pre-contract agreement with him, and then allow him to play in his own country for the 2 years until he is allowed to move.

Example.

Player A, 16 is from Canada.

English Team AFC Wimbledon sign pre-contrct with player A, so when he turns 18, he becomes an AFC wimbledon player.

Player A now has 2 years free of contract.

Toronto FC, a Canadian side sign Player A up for 2 years, before his proposed move to AFC Wimbledon.

I KNOW it happens IRL, its basically like the "work permit" clubs. Where a player cant play for you, because he's "not allowed" in the country. The 2 year void for my player, would be him attaining a work permit.

With Xbox (and similar) consoles, most games are about skill, and if you play them long enough you get better and better, and you master them; FM isn't like that because it evolves along with you, and unlike platform games and the like when you start a new game you can't just repeat what you did last time and have the same success

Competely right

NepentheZ - completely agree with most of that to be honest, just out of interest wondering why a couple of the players is your team were called 'Youth Project 2' etc?

Brilliant thread, I can relate to most of this very well, especially the stats part. Brilliant!

Originally posted by bridport_james:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> With Xbox (and similar) consoles, most games are about skill, and if you play them long enough you get better and better, and you master them; FM isn't like that because it evolves along with you, and unlike platform games and the like when you start a new game you can't just repeat what you did last time and have the same success

Competely right

NepentheZ - completely agree with most of that to be honest, just out of interest wondering why a couple of the players is your team were called 'Youth Project 2' etc?

Brilliant thread, I can relate to most of this very well, especially the stats part. Brilliant! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Each year when we get the new batch of promoted youth players, the Assistant Manager always singles out one of them as the better of the group. I take said person and try my best to develop them. To make it easy for me to locate them, I dub them "Youth Project 1" / "Youth Project 2" etc etc, and note down all the happenings in there career.

Link to example

If you go down about 18 posts, You'll see my latest update of this project. I currently have 9 youth projects running, (although 1 retired age 20 when I released him and he didn't find another club) - and there are stats there from them for each season.

Its quite interesting to read, and seems to be catching on in Dafuges Challenge thread, with a number of the participants, ehhh, participating in this little project too

Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

1. Yes, its due to players not being able to play until they are 18. But, whats wrong with him training with the club? Or at least, training with ANY Club.? IRL, if the same situation arises, the player would sign a contract with the club, then be "loaned" out to a club in a league where he can actually play. (Almost like a feeder team). So in this case, I sign him, then he has 2 years to play at another club.

I think he would not be allowed to be employed by the club, and neither would he be allowed into the country for the purposes of employment. I would say that the current situation is realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regardless of employment, I could sign a pre-contract agreement with him, and then allow him to play in his own country for the 2 years until he is allowed to move.

Example.

Player A, 16 is from Canada.

English Team AFC Wimbledon sign pre-contrct with player A, so when he turns 18, he becomes an AFC wimbledon player.

Player A now has 2 years free of contract.

Toronto FC, a Canadian side sign Player A up for 2 years, before his proposed move to AFC Wimbledon.

I KNOW it happens IRL, its basically like the "work permit" clubs. Where a player cant play for you, because he's "not allowed" in the country. The 2 year void for my player, would be him attaining a work permit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's difficult as you enter into a legal minefield when you start having "pre-contract agreements" with minors that you wouldn't be otherwise allowed to employ. Internationally as well.

I'm sure a vast majority of the time when it happens IRL, the agreement is with the other club and the player could rather easily weasel out of it if he really wanted to. under UK law, under 18s have very limited legal capacity when it comes to contracts.

Top post.

I like your team layout, any chance you can make it available for download?