Long Term AI

[ViG1980]

The problem of poor AI has been with FM for a long time and this year I still do not see much of an improvement.

I do see a slight improvement in the AI managers playing some of the young players that have potential.

Where I see very poor management is letting the squads age. EG. Madrid and Barca in my game have such an old squad, some of which should no longer be playing. Quick example on that for Madrid - players still there and in the first 11: Navas, Ramos, Ronaldo (deservedly). Varane, Carvajal, Kroos, James, Isco. It is 2020 and many of these are not good enough.

The other problem is not just the aging squad, it is what is there once they are no longer good enough. No amazing youngsters at all at Madrid or Barca - highly unlikely.

I'm being brief but what will it take to get this fixed? (Clearly it is not easy).

[Spurs08]

I think it has slowly improved, but it's clearly a very difficult thing to get right. Hopefully one year we'll just get a breakthrough and it'll suddenly improve drastically after all the hard work, but I don't think it's something you can really put a timeframe on.

[Kriss]

It gets attention every year but "get fixed" isn't a term to even use in relation to this, it will always be ongoing and subject to resources and as spurs08 points out, priorities in the plans.

[Fancy Gaffot]

I pretty much already decided that I am not going to be buying FM17 because of this. I am in 2027 and

- tons of players who are not developed properly and don't reach their potential

- teams having 1-2 goalkeepers across all squads (must be a bug) thus having to play grey generated ones

- top teams relying on 35 years olds

- teams appointing terrible managers

- because of all this every season league tables look very different. One year West Ham are 3rd the season after they are 17th etc. And if a below average team (media prediction 14th) manages to finish in a good position (5th) then next season returns to where it belongs (12th) they usually sack their manager and appoint someone with stats below 10 across the board.

[ViG1980]

I am surprised that I haven't seen a thread about this for 2016 - seen a few off-the-cuff comments within threads but that is it.

Either people don't care about it that much or just accept it.

It also makes the game unbelievably easy after a few seasons.

[DavidPengilley]

I'll probably get a bit of a bashing for this, but I'm not sure this is that much of a problem as I'd guess that FM isn't/wasn't designed to be played past (like) 5 seasons.

If every AI manager was further tuned to "do/think" more, it could be more intensive on the processor, RAM etc grinding the game to a halt (perhaps) on PCs that can usually run it.

[Mitja]

..5 years is nothing. I remember one of the first games of CM it was briliant in this department and that was 15 years ago probaly.

lack of any kind of competition is FM biggest problem. also people were much more vocal and demending on this forum years ago, plenty of constructive discussion back then.

[themadsheep2001]

..5 years is nothing. I remember one of the first games of CM it was briliant in this department and that was 15 years ago probaly.

lack of any kind of competition is FM biggest problem. also people were much more vocal and demending on this forum years ago, plenty of constructive discussion back then.

Not really true on any front. AI wasn't anywhere near advanced on any front in early FMs. And it certainly wasn't as constructive back then either, about 5 years ago this place was quite frankly a cesspit, and most devs simply stopped interacting because of it.

[themadsheep2001]

I'll probably get a bit of a bashing for this, but I'm not sure this is that much of a problem as I'd guess that FM isn't/wasn't designed to be played past (like) 5 seasons.

If every AI manager was further tuned to "do/think" more, it could be more intensive on the processor, RAM etc grinding the game to a halt (perhaps) on PCs that can usually run it.

Its much simpler than that. It's just an incredibly complex process, and its going to take time (ie multiple iterations), and probably more hardware resources. Lots of people think it's a click and done. Its not just long, but also extremely difficult to do.

[Ross Ingersoll]

100 percent correct. while i never have posted a lot, ive always lurked. There is a major difference in constructive discussion and out and out blatant trolling. which is pretty much what was going on

Not really true on any front. AI wasn't anywhere near advanced on any front in early FMs. And it certainly wasn't as constructive back then either, about 5 years ago this place was quite frankly a cesspit, and most devs simply stopped interacting because of it.

[Draakon]

It's not terrible (it doesn't make a game unplayable in any way), but you have a point. If tactics on the pitch and getting a good season together and win trophies (in other words - tactical side of the game) can be really challenging to human players, then strategy-wise it's not difficult to succeed - to bring in cheap, but talented youngsters who your scouts pick up, build a squad around them, sell them for milions and invest it into team looks fairly easy. To take over small club, bring it to premiership and European glory in ~10 years is easy in the game and AI plays it's part in it too.

What concerns old squads in OP, probably AI values reputation more than potential/skill/attributes.

[bestbrother]

Do you find this a problem in leagues that you have running? Or if they are not selected?

Does that even make a difference to how the AI manages?

I mean for example I have a save in 2031, im playing in Colombia (have done all save) and I have many other leagues running in 'View Only'. So although I cannot comment at all on how good for example Real Madrid are, and im also at the point where by 'regens' are the norm in the game over the original players. I look at Real and they have a strong squad and have been able to compete at the top, this goes across most of the major leagues with teams in the main remaining competitive and having squads that 'look good'.

Maybe there is a 'middling' of the game when players who start in the DB are good, that the AI relies on and then once they start drifting out of the game, the AI picks itself backup and rebuilds using regens into competitive teams?

Would be interested to know tbh, especially anyone else deep into a save as to how teams look etc

[ViG1980]

I think it is an issue with reputation (just like prior years) whereby players that age and should be dropped are still getting picked because of reputation. What that would mean is that AI squads get worse until all those players are gone. And then, so long as reputation doesn't come into play with newgens, the problem should be slighter.

However, I can still pick up every great youngster in the game before the bigger teams - they just don't seem to be scouting anything.

[santy001]

The biggest problem is that its become a bit of a block for all games across all genres when it comes to AI decision making. The game is designed in a way in which whatever information the AI can access a human player can access. It's a level playing field except for one thing, we can see a players reputation as one of the supposed best in the world but still work out for ourselves afterwards if that is genuinely true or not. Most of us will pick teams and pursue players by specific attributes we can work out as being what gives a player in a position an edge and I don't think the AI can ever truly become close to replicating this.

If all we were given was a scouting report and no glimpse at all of the attributes screen I think it would keep squad building more of a close run thing, you'd probably be a lot more reluctant to spend £30m+ on youngsters if all you had was some brief information and the players reputation. Particularly if that player in his mid-30's still had a good report card and high reputation.