Bringing through Youth Players

[stephensmedley]

Is it worth sending them out on loan?

Or should I just use them sporadically in the first team? At the moment I've got a few youngsters who have good Potential but there Current Ability isn't good, 4.5 Silver Stars worst to 1 Gold Star best.

Should I keep playing them occassionally in my first team as subs? Or has anyone noticed a massive increase in progression if they start?

[mikelfc8]

Try here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/417573-Development-Match-Experience-And-Everything-In-Between

[todo por ella]

I think in most people's experience loaning out your best youth players will not get great results. The best way is to keep them with you, tutoring and tailoring their training accordingly, and using the best youngsters every now and then in first team. If their potential ability is there, they will gradually keep getting better in CA. One exception I'd make though is if a top-class team come in with a loan offer. I've had quality youngsters in the past who are not quite ready for 1st XI. Six months at Juventus, or Benfica and they never left the first team afterwards.

[stephensmedley]

Try here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/417573-Development-Match-Experience-And-Everything-In-Between

That page was quite useful, and looking at other stuff he has written makes things a bit easier to understand. Thank you.

I think in most people's experience loaning out your best youth players will not get great results. The best way is to keep them with you, tutoring and tailoring their training accordingly, and using the best youngsters every now and then in first team. If their potential ability is there, they will gradually keep getting better in CA. One exception I'd make though is if a top-class team come in with a loan offer. I've had quality youngsters in the past who are not quite ready for 1st XI. Six months at Juventus, or Benfica and they never left the first team afterwards.

I have read about the problems with loaning them out. I doubt one of those top clubs will wanna loan a young player from good ol' Derby County but you never know! I have been playing them sporadically, some of them are definitely improving.

My problem is having faith in them for starting matches or even playing more than 20 minutes.

[baboyray]

I normally bring them into the first team squad at 17 or 18 and start them in home games.

[stephensmedley]

I normally bring them into the first team squad at 17 or 18 and start them in home games.

What team do you play as or is this just one of your unwritten rules?

My problem is I don't want to compromise performance for potential youth gain. I'm in my second season with Derby, promoted in first season and currently in 4th place with 9 games to go.

I know it's already better than I could of hoped for (I thought best case scenario would be 10th-12th) but now I'm here I want to give it my best shot. I have been trying to include one of my young strikers though recently, but bringing him on as sub if I'm winning by at least 2 goals.

[Hairycull]

I start to loan players out at around 18. Wont accept loan bids from clubs that are in very low divisions and they must be first team players.

Once they get to about 20 I will start looking at giving them games in my team.

Its not the best method for each individual player but if your like me and only really focus on signing young players it works out better in the long run.

when you have 40 players under the age of 20 that have the potential to be in your first team you cant give enough games to them. So loaning out is the only option.

[stephensmedley]

I don't have much of a budget so I cannot sign too many players that's why I'm choosing youngsters because you can get some of them for a steal and my first team is solid atm not spectacular but solid.

Started a couple of youngsters recently, performances haven't been as good but won 1 drew 1. Going to learn to pick and choose the matches they play and how many play in each match.

[stephensmedley]

I have another question regarding youngsters

This chap has just come through the youth candidates.

My problem is I don't know which position he'd best fit in my team.

This is how my team lines up

Any ideas?

Cheers again

[Snorks]

I will loan out youth at 17-20 yrs old if, and ONLY IF they are going to a club with better youth facilities/staff OR they are getting regular 1st team football there.

Otherwise they stay in my u18 team until they are too old. If they are good enough, or have enough potential I make them available for the u21s which puts them on my tactics screen and they become 3rd or 4th choice for their posiition, picking up game time here and there. This also gives me quick feedback on their form & performance levels in the u21s and I can decide whether they have earned a crack at the first team.

they may get a run in the cup games or against much weaker opposition, but giving them 20 mins in a game that is already won doesn't do much for them developmentally apart from settling nerves and 'getting used' to the level

Having said all that, I tend to spend my time as an LLM so may be different in the upper reaches of he game.

[askeyt]

I like to send young players out on loan to an affiliate club for a season for two, then when they are 19-21 stick them straight into the first team. Using an affiliate in a decent-ish league (top flight of Holland/Belguim) where the club doesn't have any 'real players' so you know your players are guaranteed games.

[Smurf]

I had a pretty good youth player but no room to play him in my team.

I sent him on loan for a few seasons. By the time he was 24 he was worth €40m. So I sold him, still no room in the team and I netted €75m for a player who never even played for the first team but came through the youth system.

Pretty epic.

[the_gaffa]

I have another question regarding youngsters

This chap has just come through the youth candidates.

My problem is I don't know which position he'd best fit in my team.

This is how my team lines up

Any ideas?

Cheers again

I'd re-train him to a new position. Looking at your current formation, I'd suggest a 'central midfielder - attack'.

[mikelfc8]

Quick question as I've never tried it - can you retrain a player into a position with which he has no tactical familiarity whatsoever ie. no circle of any colour at all?

Usually I'd try a couple of apposite tutors, but I have a 18yr old ST/AMC who cannot be tutored that I want to use as a CM.

Cheers

[Sunstrikuuu]

Yes, you can.

[mikelfc8]

Yes, you can.

Great stuff, many thanks.

[Slabbekoorn]

It depends on my team and if they have a chance to play at all. I'll give them game time if a spot opens up in the new season. And I'll loan them out if there isn't any room for them. Although I do have to say that the time they spend in the youth academy is vital for the players. You do not have to loan them out or give them first team experience while they are still under 20 years old. They will still grow if they play enough in the youth academy. Here is my plan that works perfectly fine for me:

1. It is advised that you don't have more than 22 players (2 of each position) in your academy. You can have more players but you'll have to pay close attention to each and single one of them.

2. Everyone has to play at least once a week. I advise 2 matches per week. And plan 2 friendly matches whenever there is an international break. This way your less talented players will get more play time.

3. Make sure everyone has 100% match fitness. This one is important because players growth will stall or even decrease whenever they are not match fit (although it is sometimes difficult if you have to GK because the better one will most likely always play).

4. Give them rest and time to grow before/after matches and during holidays (Christmas for instance).

5. Your youth manager/head of youth has to have tactical knowledge because players grow when they play well and they play well when they win. So winning = growth. You also have to let your youth play with the exact same tactic as your first team.

6. Keep close attention to their stats. If you have a CB with 4 strength then you have to chose to make him a back (has to have acceleration/speed/dribbling/crossing) or you have to train his strength stat. I do this a lot. My CB's get strength training right of the bat and my wingers+wing backs get pace training right away.

7. Tutor your players so that they'll get an high determination stat and a professional personality. Especially midfielders benefit from a high determination stat.

I follow these 'rules' and most of my players have a CA of 110-125 when they're done in the youth academy. This way it does not really matter if I loan them out or not because they'll make it either way.

[mikelfc8]

It depends on my team and if they have a chance to play at all. I'll give them game time if a spot opens up in the new season. And I'll loan them out if there isn't any room for them. Although I do have to say that the time they spend in the youth academy is vital for the players. You do not have to loan them out or give them first team experience while they are still under 20 years old. They will still grow if they play enough in the youth academy. Here is my plan that works perfectly fine for me:

1. It is advised that you don't have more than 22 players (2 of each position) in your academy. You can have more players but you'll have to pay close attention to each and single one of them.

2. Everyone has to play at least once a week. I advise 2 matches per week. And plan 2 friendly matches whenever there is an international break. This way your less talented players will get more play time.

3. Make sure everyone has 100% match fitness. This one is important because players growth will stall or even decrease whenever they are not match fit (although it is sometimes difficult if you have to GK because the better one will most likely always play).

4. Give them rest and time to grow before/after matches and during holidays (Christmas for instance).

5. Your youth manager/head of youth has to have tactical knowledge because players grow when they play well and they play well when they win. So winning = growth. You also have to let your youth play with the exact same tactic as your first team.

6. Keep close attention to their stats. If you have a CB with 4 strength then you have to chose to make him a back (has to have acceleration/speed/dribbling/crossing) or you have to train his strength stat. I do this a lot. My CB's get strength training right of the bat and my wingers+wing backs get pace training right away.

7. Tutor your players so that they'll get an high determination stat and a professional personality. Especially midfielders benefit from a high determination stat.

I follow these 'rules' and most of my players have a CA of 110-125 when they're done in the youth academy. This way it does not really matter if I loan them out or not because they'll make it either way.

Great post:thup:

[Terrance]

I stopped sending the to affiliate clubs because they don't guarantee playing time. I offer loan to teams who will give first team or key player status during the loan (plus I will try to add recall option just in case I need them due to injury in my squad).

Yes keep youth on your squad if you have space. When you have too many (in my case), start sending out the the players who you think will not develop well enough to play on your main squad because you need those players to impress in good competition. Playing well in a season with many games with a first team will bring up their value and make it easier to sell them before their contract ends. Who knows, one of them might develop well enough for your first team.

[stephensmedley]

It depends on my team and if they have a chance to play at all. I'll give them game time if a spot opens up in the new season. And I'll loan them out if there isn't any room for them. Although I do have to say that the time they spend in the youth academy is vital for the players. You do not have to loan them out or give them first team experience while they are still under 20 years old. They will still grow if they play enough in the youth academy. Here is my plan that works perfectly fine for me:

1. It is advised that you don't have more than 22 players (2 of each position) in your academy. You can have more players but you'll have to pay close attention to each and single one of them.

2. Everyone has to play at least once a week. I advise 2 matches per week. And plan 2 friendly matches whenever there is an international break. This way your less talented players will get more play time.

3. Make sure everyone has 100% match fitness. This one is important because players growth will stall or even decrease whenever they are not match fit (although it is sometimes difficult if you have to GK because the better one will most likely always play).

4. Give them rest and time to grow before/after matches and during holidays (Christmas for instance).

5. Your youth manager/head of youth has to have tactical knowledge because players grow when they play well and they play well when they win. So winning = growth. You also have to let your youth play with the exact same tactic as your first team.

6. Keep close attention to their stats. If you have a CB with 4 strength then you have to chose to make him a back (has to have acceleration/speed/dribbling/crossing) or you have to train his strength stat. I do this a lot. My CB's get strength training right of the bat and my wingers+wing backs get pace training right away.

7. Tutor your players so that they'll get an high determination stat and a professional personality. Especially midfielders benefit from a high determination stat.

I follow these 'rules' and most of my players have a CA of 110-125 when they're done in the youth academy. This way it does not really matter if I loan them out or not because they'll make it either way.

Okay I'm giving your 'rules' as you call them a whirl. All my players that I've stuck in the first team I've made available for U18's and scheduled more friendlies. I've got rid of lots of deadweight and my U18's looks half decent now. I've also set the U18's to play with my tactics so the players get used to their roles too.

On a side note, do the U18 competitions have a reputation and is that relevant to how much the players learn?

[stephensmedley]

Another question;

I've viewed a couple of Cleons threads, he seems to use very low general training but very high individual training.

So I have adopted this approach to see how it works for me, towards the end of last season it was great with lots of green arrows for all players young and old, bonus I though.

This season, I don't know if it's cus I'm europe and playing more, but I seem to be getting a lot of muscular injuries, from players who don't tend to get them. Is it just bad luck, fixture congestion or is it something to do with the training?

I should add that for the first time my squad are overwhelmingly happy with training in fact only one player at the moment is unhappy with training.

[Slabbekoorn]

@Terrance:

You can see your players chance of getting first-team game time when you are loaning a player to your affiliate on this version of FM. It's in the same screen as when you decide how much months your player is going to spend there.

@stephensmedley:

Cleons thread is pretty good. I had some useful tips from his test and results and tweaked them a bit to get my own guideline. About the muscular injuries, they just tend to happen a lot. Most of the players can't handle 2 games a week in FM. It's a shame really. I have my general training on light fitness and I have reduced training injuries and muscular injuries a lot. I have individual training on normal except for those players that recently have come back from a major injury (more than 2 weeks) and people that are prone to injuries (mostly with a low natural fitness stat) also have light training. The natural fitness stat will increase over time if he does not get injured and vice versa.

Subbing out first team players is also a great method to use when you are playing 2 times a week. This way you'll decrease the chance of them getting injured. I normally do that in the 60th minute so that my sub can get a rating (because your player has to get a rating otherwise he will not benefit if he does not get a grade).

I'm currently testing the loaning out vs reserve players. I'm managing in france now so my reserves are in the 4th league tier. The opposition is not really great but it'll do. I have a player from '95 and he kept growing in my reserves for a full year after he was done in the youth academy. His personality is not super but not bad either. I have criticized his training level (always warn a player's training level when the staff says that his stats have declined over a period) because he is stagnating. I also have changed his individual training to heavy and his stats are increasing yet again. But I do not think that I can keep him as a reserve a lot longer. There is only so much training can do for someone.

I would advise to loan out a player if he is aged 21 or above and if he is not good enough to be a sub. If he's 22 and he still isn't good enough to be a sub then you have to make a choice to force him in your team as a sub (and sell the other player) or just let him go.

I hope that this answers your questions and it can be a little guideline. Bringing through youth players in your ranks does require some serious (future) team planning.

[Terrance]

slabbekoorn, I can't see that screen (probably because I changed my skin and format). Are you able to see the chances of 1st team experience before sending them on loan?