Özil + 10, a tactical exercise on FM14 with Arsenal

[noikeee]

Been a while since I last posted but I just figured out a variation on this which is very handy. I had both Walcott and the Ox injured so was pretty much forced to play Vela on the right wing. He's left-footed and quite the quick dribbler so is very suited to IF/S on that position. To balance it, I put Podolski on the left wing as W/A (basically almost a reverse of what I do usually with the winger on the right and a playmaker on the left). I now no longer had a AP/S on the pitch, so gave that role to Özil.

As it happens this was against Fulham who by chance don't use a DM in their formation (4-4-1-1). We thrashed them 4-0 and Özil was fabulous as AP/s particularly with no direct opponent to fight against. Moreover he intercepted quite a few balls deep in midfield and initiated counters, not just provided the final pass - which would never happen as a Trequartista.

I did have him with "more roaming" instruction, so he wasn't fully static but I think a AP/S which is a static-ish role connecting the lines really takes advantage of the hole when the opposition don't field a DM. When they do I think I'd rather have a Trequartista to help drag him out.

Also by having him as AP/S it no longer makes sense to have another AP/S on the wing so you have a different thing with a dribbler coming inside as IF/S. Doesn't necessarily need to be with Vela on the right - you could have Walcott as the W/A on the right and Cazorla as the IF/S on the left.

[nozshand]

I found play two inside forward with lone striker drop deep is the best way to go, I was on a 55 games unbeaten run before lost 1-4 to Man utd away. I also don't like to play DLP on support role because I think it requires the whole team to work around him which is contradict to have since ozil is almost certainly going to play Trequartista.

Btw Arteta is absolutely amazing playing as DLP(d), 18 first touch, 20 composure, 19 decision

[noikeee]

Amusingly I've also just ended a decent run at Man Utd away They had 41 shots lol (19 of them long this quirk of the current ME really is ridiculous)

[Babak G]

I found play two inside forward with lone striker drop deep is the best way to go, I was on a 55 games unbeaten run before lost 1-4 to Man utd away. I also don't like to play DLP on support role because I think it requires the whole team to work around him which is contradict to have since ozil is almost certainly going to play Trequartista.

Btw Arteta is absolutely amazing playing as DLP(d), 18 first touch, 20 composure, 19 decision

You mean a CF deep? or what type of forward?

[llama3]

Amusingly I've also just ended a decent run at Man Utd away They had 41 shots lol (19 of them long this quirk of the current ME really is ridiculous)

Lost my start of 10 consecutive wins with a 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford too

[abhid30007]

Lost my start of 10 consecutive wins with a 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford too

sounds like real life save

[Bittah Dreamer]

Just finished my first season and won the league by 3 points, with United in second. At one point I was 10 points up but two consecutive away losses to Spurs and Man City, and then a limp home draw against Villa nearly threatened to ruin my season. I was playing a similar formation to most here at home.

Away though, I was never really sure how to approach the game, and never really settled on a convincing approach for away games. I changed between 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 depending on the opposition. Obviously you will always be up against it against the bigger teams away from home, but I recall Swansea having over 70% possession against me at the Liberty Stadium (think i somehow managed a draw though).

Anybody found an approach that works?

I'm also trying to think how should I approach the upcoming transfer window and my team's approach for next year.

I already have Lewandowski coming in on a free. Although Giroud was joint second top scorer in the league this year (behind Danny Graham of all people), he was too inconsistent at times.

I'm thinking that maybe a move to 4-1-2-2-1 might be better than 4-2-3-1, even at home. I think at time play got too congested in the final third with 4 players so high up. However, I feel I would be failing to make the most of Ozil by playing him on a wing.

I also have choices to make on my wide men. I think Walcott on 100k per week is way over priced. He was actually effective for me on the right wing, but I still feel his only real strength is speed. I also feel that Cazorla didn't deliver either, and his attitude annoyed me (outright refused to tutor younger players for example, and never really accepted criticism when he had a stinker).

So I have identified Shaqiri, Draxler and El Shaarawy as possible alternatives for them. Shaqiri on the right for Walcott and the other two on the left. Each plays best as inside forwards.

A lot of my attacking play came through Walcott on the right as a winger - especially on the counter. On the left, most of my attacking play came through Baines, with Cazorla or Vela sitting in a bit as an advanced playmaker and inside forward respectively.

If I go to an inside forward on the right, I may lose some of the directness Walcott offered. The move to 4-1-2-2-1 is intended to try and compensate to an extent by leaving more room for the inside forwards to cut in and run at the defence. I would also obviously have players who had more to offer than just their pace, and could hopefully influence the game in more ways.

Thoughts?

I am also wondering how best to play Lewandowski. I had Giroud as a target man (attack) and he did well. Lewandowski is best as a complete forward per my scouts. he should have the strength to do a target man job as well, but if I am moving to using inside forwards on the wings I wonder might I be best to try and get him to bring them into the game more. If so, a DLF or F9 role might work, but I would then be sacrificing some goal threat from him.

should I just leave him on complete and let him try and do it all?

This did not work out well for me at all.

I got carried away a bit with revamping the team, and get young talent in, so ended up buying in too many players without enough thought into them. I also sold much of my old team (Mertesacker, koscielny, Reveilliere, Scezny, Flamini, Walcott, Cazorla, Giroud and Vela all left - 6 of whom were first team startes). Moreover my formation switch didn't go to plan, and struggled to break teams down. I think I had my team instructions all wrong for a 4-1-2-2-1 and ended up 9th by December. I switched back to 4-2-3-1 and play improved but the damage to my season had already been done.

I decided to revert back to a summer save, and keep the 4-2-3-1 approach. I kept Walcott and took a different approach in the transfer market. I brought in Hamsik as my marquee signing (in addition to Lewandowski on a free), and didn't go on such a rampant dismantling of a title winning team. I kept Giroud, Walcott, Mertesacker, koscielny, Scezny and Reveilliere, though the last three might still go). I also brought in N'kolou for the first team and Vitinho as a squad player. The core of my first team will remain largely the same though.

However, my desire for incremental change is being strongly tested by Lamela going on the transfer list by request at spurs. I have a bid accepted of almost £45 million plus another 15-20 in add-ons. I think he might make me reconsider keeping Walcott.

Unfortunately Walcott lost £10-15 from his value over the summer for some reason, so my chances of getting £40 million for him look extremely remote. Will probably be lucky to get £30m, especially as the start of the season is a week away and most teams will likely have spent their budget.

Still Lamela as IF on the right, Ozil as a (over-qualified) winger on the left and Hamsik maruading through the middle could be good.

[noikeee]

You can all safely disregard my "advice" in this thread, I had a dismal end to the season, finished 5th, lost the FA Cup final to Man City and now the board want to sack me. Very frustrated now.

[llama3]

What went wrong noikeee?

[noikeee]

If I knew I'd have done better!

We just had an extremely tough batch of fixtures at the end of the season, with Tottenham, City, Chelsea in the final 4 matches and mild difficulty away matches before and after, also got knocked out by Real in the Champions League which didn't help morale. I attempted a more restrained version of the 4-2-3-1 (with the central AP/s) at the beginning of the run, but was conceding goals and not scoring much neither; switched to 4-3-3 and continued to get dominated but now we weren't even scoring anymore. Then to further complicate things Özil and Behrami got injured.

We were 1 point from the top at the start of April, as you can see from there on all hell broke loose, ended 11 points back...

[llama3]

Ouch, so what system were you playing for the majority of it?

[noikeee]

Think I started April with the 4-2-3-1 and switched to 4-3-3 for the 2nd Chelsea match.

[llama3]

Having the wing backs on both side caused me a rough run of form in late-december to early-january, the moment i switched sagna back to FB(S) behind the W(A) on the right flank we were much more defensively solid again.

[bababooey]

That is one of the craziest run of games I've ever seen..

After reading through this entire thread the one thing that keeps sticking in my head is that you changed your main approach from a control strategy to standard. Arsenal are a top tier club, and they should be able to control matches against almost anyone, save for those Real Madrid matchups you had, and perhaps City / Chelsea.

Obviously everyone plays the game differently and some people choose one strategy and would rather make smaller tweaks (what I do) and others change their strategy constantly in game depending on how it's going. I think in the case of Arsenal though, it may be a greater benefit to maintain a controlling approach, simply because of the type of players Arsenal have at the club. The best defense is usually a great offense, no? Looking at your results, you guys did brilliantly in the games you won. A lot of lopsided scores. 4-1, 3-1, 3-0, 5-1, etc. etc. But in the games you guys lost (or drew) you usually had 1 or 0 goals. That tells me that you guys dropped the level of intensity in attack, so you probably played Counter, or Standard, or whatever else.

I'm not saying to go to the Santiago Bernabeu and try to control the game but as the 12-step guide says the strategy names are quite plastic, and even the attacking strategy can defend very well.

If I were playing as Arsenal I would try my best to out score the "bigger" teams. That may seem counter-intuitive but as I've been told the smaller clubs give you LESS space, and the bigger clubs generally leave more space open as they try to come after you. You could exploit that space with Arsenal better than I probably could have with Inter before I resigned. You know what I mean?

The last point I have is that I would devise a secondary tactic to use when Ozil is not available. I think he's that special. As the title of your thread implies anyway.. But I would go for a 4-1-2-2-1 when Ozil isn't available. Try to pack the midfield triangle, and smash teams down the flanks with Walcott / Ox / etc. Giroud is a great lone forward so bonus there.

I feel your frustration though Noikeee.

[noikeee]

I thought I should give a little update - I survived the sack despite coming 5th, and appear to have turned things dramatically in the new season. As you can see there's lots of new players who have helped a lot too, besides the tactical changes:

Don't have the time to go in deeper into the changes right now, but the main differences were that when I play the 4-3-3 I do it almost all the time on control - exactly like the poster above me suggested (thank you for that tip!) - and I have experimented a lot with a few different strategies of pressing. Remember the "drop deeper + play wider" combo I use with the 4-2-3-1? It's great to unlock a packed defence but also invites huge amounts of pressure. When I feel I'm inviting too much pressure, I drob that combo. When I feel I'm STILL inviting too much pressure, I go "hassle opponents + stay on feet" as suggested on other threads. I've been using this latter combo on the 4-3-3 regularly too to great effect.

I've also stopped using "exploit the flanks" on the 4-3-3 to get the midfield more involved as I have 3 central midfielders, and it's useless to try to put the ball in behind the opposition defence to my wingers in this ME version anyway. The new ME update must be coming within a matter of days, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. Hopefully the tactics won't just stop working, I think they are logical and not terribly ME-exploiting but you never know...

[bababooey]

I thought I should give a little update - I survived the sack despite coming 5th, and appear to have turned things dramatically in the new season. As you can see there's lots of new players who have helped a lot too, besides the tactical changes:

Don't have the time to go in deeper into the changes right now, but the main differences were that when I play the 4-3-3 I do it almost all the time on control - exactly like the poster above me suggested (thank you for that tip!) - and I have experimented a lot with a few different strategies of pressing. Remember the "drop deeper + play wider" combo I use with the 4-2-3-1? It's great to unlock a packed defence but also invites huge amounts of pressure. When I feel I'm inviting too much pressure, I drob that combo. When I feel I'm STILL inviting too much pressure, I go "hassle opponents + stay on feet" as suggested on other threads. I've been using this latter combo on the 4-3-3 regularly too to great effect.

I've also stopped using "exploit the flanks" on the 4-3-3 to get the midfield more involved as I have 3 central midfielders, and it's useless to try to put the ball in behind the opposition defence to my wingers in this ME version anyway. The new ME update must be coming within a matter of days, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. Hopefully the tactics won't just stop working, I think they are logical and not terribly ME-exploiting but you never know...

To my knowledge there are no tactics that "stop working", however AI teams do adapt to how your team is playing / your reputation. So you may find that your typical approach loses steam.

But this is great to see Noikeee! You're doing very well. I too am doing well now in my new save. Unbeaten at September 25th and top of ligue 1. Not too shabby.

Keep it up with Arsenal!

[noikeee]

I didn't mean the AI adapting to my tactics, I meant the new FM patch coming soon, it'll change things in the match engine. For example one of my typical recurrent goalscoring opportunities is Walcott winning the byline and crossing for Giroud lots of times, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the patch made it harder for wingers to win the byline so it might affect the effectiveness of my system.

[Bittah Dreamer]

I've moved to a narrow 4-2-3-1 with three AMCs behind the striker.

It's somewhat inspired by the thread on gegenpressing, so I'm playong a very high line, closing down, tight marking, stay on feet and a fast tempo. For some reason it works an awful lot better than the wide version of 4-2-3-1. I think the two outside AMCs are still in a good position to press the fullbacks due to the very high line while being able to influence the play more in the middle.

I'm still experimenting with the roles for the front four but it seems to work really well in generation lots of shots and keeping the oppositions chances to a minimum. I'm not creating many CCCs though, or scoring lots but my team are still adapting to it (I'm at the start of October now, but only switched to this for my first league game).

If tried to switch back to the wide version every now and then but I just seem blunt up front and always seem to concede easily.

I use the same defensive set up for both formations but for some reason my defence seems a lot more intelligent, aggressive and co-ordinated on the narrow version - even after the play goes beyond my midfield.

[chroniclesofal]

I haven't managed to have any success with Özil, let alone Arsenal. I've restarted the save at least 15 times and not once have I felt like continuing. Even when I do well, goals are scrappy, I score corners for half of my goals and the football is hardly recognisable as Arsenal. I play better football with Boreham Wood in Skrill South!

Apparently it's not just me though - in my Boreham game, Arsene had Arsenal in 15th for most of the season before pulling out a 7th placed finish and leaving. Now Marco van Basten is under pressure just a couple of months in, and Özil is on the transfer list for £14 MILLION! Has he actually been influential in anybody's game this year, whether they controlled Arsenal or not?

[llama3]

He was top assister in the Premier League for me last year with around 18 assists. AP(S), with licence to roam, move into channels and run wide with the ball.

[Yasp0]

Season 14/15: played 10 in the league, 2 goals, 9 assists, 7.82 avg

Season 13/14: played 31 in the league, 5 goals, 13 assists, 7.27 avg

[paul400mhurdler]

used these tactics and been winning for fun in pre season... first game of the season lose 3-1 to everton at home.... what the hell is wrong with this game? its the worst game that SI have ever made! why is it so frickin hard during the season??!!!!!!

[RTHerringbone]

used these tactics and been winning for fun in pre season... first game of the season lose 3-1 to everton at home.... what the hell is wrong with this game? its the worst game that SI have ever made! why is it so frickin hard during the season??!!!!!!

Amazing how it's always the fault of the game, and never of the user who has picked up someone else's tactics.

[paul400mhurdler]

Amazing how it's always the fault of the game, and never of the user who has picked up someone else's tactics.

I just dont understand how even making my own tactics, downloading others, changing things around just dont work... i aint the only one to have problems with this game and i wont be the last

[llama3]

I just dont understand how even making my own tactics, downloading others, changing things around just dont work... i aint the only one to have problems with this game and i wont be the last

If you would like some help we have wwfan's 12 step guide, then my pairs and combinations guide - if you follow the guidelines to help you won't be far off. However if you would also care to open your own thread then we can point out anything we see to help you. That is what these forums are for, and it is what I am here for - to help.

[rumbleweed]

This is a GREAT thread. Thanks, noikee, and everyone who's contributed to the discussion! It's all been very helpful. My Arsenal season is going pretty well: 2nd in the Premier League by the beginning of December, just 1 point behind Chelsea.

I followed noikee's idea of beefing up the defensive midfield with Behrami and getting a better left back in Coentrao. But I also felt like I needed another striker, for security and because I felt Sanogo would benefit from being loaned out, so Vela has returned to the squad. Center back was another position I felt could use some beefing up, so I got a young, strong CB by the name of Eliaquim Mangala.

Recently, mostly due to long-term injuries to key players Giroud and Cazorla, I've tried experimenting with the tactics a bit. One thing that's been working better than expected is a -- I dunno how to put it -- "crooked" 4-2-3-1.

I haven't really tried anything like asymmetrical formations before, and I'm a bit surprised by how well it's doing. So far, I've been able to dominate possession a lot more (around 65%) as well as generate a lot more chances for my attacking players.

I use Push Higher Up and Hassle Opponents in the hopes of forcing opposing defenders to make bad, long passes -- which my defense is happy to pick up.

Last game against WBA they managed to fire 22 shots, 7 of which were clear cut chances. They won 2-1 with goals by Podolski and Ozil, with the single conceded goal being a penalty late in the game. Before that was a 5-2 win against Hull, with Podolski producing a hat trick and a brace by Wilshere.

The tactic has yet to be tested against a team of equal or higher ability, though. A Champions League match against Dortmund is coming up, though, and I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[max787]

used these tactics and been winning for fun in pre season... first game of the season lose 3-1 to everton at home.... what the hell is wrong with this game? its the worst game that SI have ever made! why is it so frickin hard during the season??!!!!!!

lol

Arsenal losing to Everton is hardly unrealistic.

regarding your results in pre-season, I presume you were playing mediocre to rubbish teams?

[rumbleweed]

Neither team won, but the fans were treated to some entertaining football at least!

We lost the possession battle, but I'm glad to see we made the most of our chances. Half of the shots were clear cut chances on goal, all of which ended with the ball in the back of the net. I'm happy with the result, since I had to rotate a few of my better for upcoming matches and Bendtner (!) bagged 2 goals.

Speaking of Bendtner, he got the goal of the match -- a counter attack with some great passing and movement.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I didn't mean the AI adapting to my tactics, I meant the new FM patch coming soon, it'll change things in the match engine. For example one of my typical recurrent goalscoring opportunities is Walcott winning the byline and crossing for Giroud lots of times, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the patch made it harder for wingers to win the byline so it might affect the effectiveness of my system.

Did you stick with the 4-2-3-1?

Was always a leaky formation for me.

[aderow]

Waiting for those 3 playmakers in central mid to get pulled apart...

3 playmakers are working a treat for me