Wolfsong's guide to team talks - Fm08

[DiscoStu94]

You sir are my hero. Using your guide, I just drew against Leicester 3-3, away, with Stevenage! Brilliant! And we cam from behind twice, before going ahead, then going a man down at 75mins! Wow!

[thelegendof_yrag]

Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

One thing that annoys me about team talks id you can be two up at half time and there isn't always any option for encouragement. So all you can really put is pleased and a few individual talks, but i find from this the players just sit back and don't make much more effort, and rarley score any more goals!

anyone else find this?

[Joor]

Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

One thing that annoys me about team talks id you can be two up at half time and there isn't always any option for encouragement. So all you can really put is pleased and a few individual talks, but i find from this the players just sit back and don't make much more effort, and rarley score any more goals!

anyone else find this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2-0 or 3-0 at home ?.. everyone got a 7, except a few with 8s' ? . Yes I get this alot with my milan team.

I say "dont let your performance drop" to everyone except those with lower morale (ok and good) and youngsters - I tell them " have faith" . Say "delighted" if they scored in first 45 min.

Professional players react well to this, "gained focus" is quite common.

[Joor]

I also just want to say that even if a player have "Nothing specific noted" at both pregameteamtalk and halftime he can still give a great performance. I see this alot, with Kaka f.eks who made 2 goals and got MOM vs inter("for the fans at home").

[Joor]

About my last comment; it might have something to do with its against a rival and hes morale is superb before the match and at halftime.

So he doesnt need extra motivation..

[Kongdo]

great guide

great guide

[thelegendof_yrag]

Originally posted by Joor:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

One thing that annoys me about team talks id you can be two up at half time and there isn't always any option for encouragement. So all you can really put is pleased and a few individual talks, but i find from this the players just sit back and don't make much more effort, and rarley score any more goals!

anyone else find this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2-0 or 3-0 at home ?.. everyone got a 7, except a few with 8s' ? . Yes I get this alot with my milan team.

I say "dont let your performance drop" to everyone except those with lower morale (ok and good) and youngsters - I tell them " have faith" . Say "delighted" if they scored in first 45 min.

Professional players react well to this, "gained focus" is quite common. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i started using that but some players are confused by it?

[Joor]

Thelegendof_yrag, look at those players personality . Maybe they are too ambitious or just not very Professional. I would never say dont let your performance drop at halftime to someone who has a 7 and was "looking forward to play against xxx" before a game.

[thelegendof_yrag]

There's a couple of players who seemed confused by dont let your performance drop so i say pleased instead, and for players on 8, usually two or three i say you have faith which provides a good reaction, but everyone else if i say pleased they dont seem to turn up for the second half and i conced a stupid late goal, and the opposition enjoy a lot of chances even though they only had 1 in the first half.

I dont understand how dont let your performance drop can have a negative effect, in my eye's it should help them regain focus to see the game out till the end?

[bandi15]

This is hilarious. I just spanked a full strength Chelsea team 7-0 away. I'm Arsenal, first year, and Adebayor and Gallas were the only two first teamers.

[bandi15]

oops, wrong topic, sorry

can't seem to delete my post

[lfc7]

hi got a scenario wondering if u could help am through to the fa cup final am going to be playing chelsea ive been drawn as the away team so what should i say at start? for supporters or we can win this game?

i had arsenal in the semis and i was drawn as the home team and i said do it for the supporters and we won 3-1.

[lfc7]

can anyone help with above post please?

[DominicForza]

Sometimes that 2-0 half-time lead the best thing to say is Nothing! I do find that "pleased" often seems to see the squad play lethargic in the second half (or course this could also simply be that the opposition manager has fired up his troops).

I always feel pretty confident up one or tied, but up two is nervous times.

[RockinRobin]

If only i had discovered this earlier. It has helped me bring my bottom of league palace team up to 22nd although it took 5 games for moral to get to a point where i started to draw games. I just dont seem to win enough games in spite of this useful tool. I also dont see as much reaction as it seems everyone else does. I also get a lot of didnt seem to listen from my full time team talks.

I have yet to see the wonderful turn arounds that people talk about despite my team being pretty good (in my opinion). Any other help would be good!!

Also what is to stop the opposition doing the same to you with an outstanding team talk? I have been losing 2-0 and got back to 2-1 by the end of the game but the commentators say the oppositions teams performance was a joy to behold!?

[bandi15]

In my current game my players always underperform in the first half and they only step it up if I shout their heads off at haltftime. Any ideas why this could be?

[Joor]

Originally posted by bandi15:

In my current game my players always underperform in the first half and they only step it up if I shout their heads off at haltftime. Any ideas why this could be?

You could try to expect a performance from more in the first 45 min...which team is it you control ? since it depends on your players mentality.

[bandi15]

It's QPR after one season. The squad personality is supposed to determined. We're in the PL now so I'm not expecting to much, but I get sixes all around the place at halftime and it's a little annoying. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it.

[Joor]

Originally posted by bandi15:

It's QPR after one season. The squad personality is supposed to determined. We're in the PL now so I'm not expecting to much, but I get sixes all around the place at halftime and it's a little annoying. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it.

Notice the pregame odds tho, how your player respond . If your not a favorite dont expect to much .

I say "expect a performance" to those who are looking forward to play against team xxx or fired up etc.

[canvey!!]

Excellent work, Wolfsong!

I had attempted to follow this guide before, but found it too much work for too little effect. However, I am happy to admit that I was wrong - and now I will be sticking to this like the bible.

A 2-0 and 6-1 away win converted me, and then a 3-1 home win for my struggling BSS Mangotsfield convinced me further. If there was an award for post or topic of the year (well, last year), I would certainly nominate this.

Thanks a lot, you've made many happy.

[WoIfsong]

Hi guys, sorry I havnt been replying much. Thanks Joor and everyone else for replying to this thread and contributing.

I have started a new game with the 2nd version of 8.0.2 a few days ago. First of all I'd like to say that I personally think that the 8.0.2 match engine is much much better than 8.0.1, no more stupid 1v1 misses, no more superkeepers, a lot more beautiful and realistic goals and mental stats are at least as important as physical stats now. The only issue for me is too many corner scores (which SI is trying to fix for the next version/fm09 according to the bugs forum) but you can avoid using that 'cheat' by using a different corner settings). Anyway I'd just like to recommend everyone to start a 8.0.2 game if you have not already.

Back to teamtalks, in 8.0.2 playing as R.Madrid in the first season, I have noticed a lot more instances of 'seemed demotivated. looked delighted" by the use of "you can win" "wish luck" and even "encourage" when your team is on a winning streak and morale is superb. However, I think I have found a way or a guide for avoiding these:

- If home match odds favour you and if most players are on superb to very good morale, it is almost always better to say 'expect a win' than 'you can win', as the latter can have demotivating effects.

- If away match odds favour you, (e.g. home team faces your 'difficult challenge') and if most of your players are on Superb to very good morale, it is often better to NOT say anything pre-match when you are away; if you really worry about not saying anything (which I have not yet found a negative effect assocaited with it) then you can say 'for the fans' which never ever gives any negative effects (nor positive ones) noted, but I personally tend to save those for derby matches.

- If most players are on superb but a couple are on OK or poor, it is often good to say nothing as general team talk and 'you have faith' to the low morales.

- If you are on a winning streak and pre-match odds favour you heavily, it is undesirable to say 'you can win' either pre-match or at 1/2 time even if you are away, because I think the players interpret that as 'we can just play however we like because we can win anyway' and get demotivated.

- If you have a really important away game (e.g. R.Madrid vs Barca), the odds favour you slightly, your morale is high, you don't want to say 'expect a win' because that risks getting your players nervous, you don't want to say 'you can win' or 'wish luck' as they sometimes demotivate one or two of your players, you don't want to say 'for the fans' because it's not your home ground, you can manually say 'you have faith' to everyone. If this derby game is home, then of couse a 'for the fans' does the trick.

Hope these help and I will continually update any more findings through my 8.0.2 game.

[David Beckham_7]

Nice one Wolfsong

[din]

good man

i have some problem about these

first,

Can you talk about "prove your point" in individual talk"

second,

i played home team and my team got a red card.

first half 0-0 my 5 players got 6 points and other got 7 points. how should i do?

sorry my english is not very well.

[Flair]

Wow. Tried this for the first time. Was 2-0 down by halftime. So did the dissapointed on my 6'ers with just the two 7 guys getting i have faith.

20 minutes into the half.... only changes is one of my 7 guys is now a 6, and one of the 6s is now a 5, and they have scored again.

Pulled one back... but that was through a sub who didnt get any team talking.

[WoIfsong]

Originally posted by din:

good man

i have some problem about these

first,

Can you talk about "prove your point" in individual talk"

second,

i played home team and my team got a red card.

first half 0-0 my 5 players got 6 points and other got 7 points. how should i do?

sorry my english is not very well.

1 - I always find no effect in using 'prove a point' or similar, it is a new addition in fm08 and I've never used it after the first few times trying.

2 - I'd substitute 2 players on (provided you have got quality substitutes), say 'you can make the difference to them' if they are attacking players. I'd say 'disappointed' to rating 6 players with very good - superb morale, while having a 'you can win' as a general team talk, provided that your team is unlikely to get complacent listening to 'you can win' - my previous post.

Hope these help

To Flair: I think information on home/away, morale, prematch odds, squad personality and actual teamtalk feedback after the match would be helpful for me to analyse what went wrong in your scenario.

[Skyon90]

Excelent WoIfsong.

I would like to ask you if i can post it in a portuguese Football Manager forum with your permission.

Thanks

[WoIfsong]

Sure Skyon, thanks.

[Ginger]

Wolfsong, I have emailed you about using the article in The Bootroom magazine, could you let me know if this is possible?

Thanks

[oilybandit]

Thanks for updating for 8.02. In my Barnsley game I tend to use "You can win today/for the fans" and nearly always win the first half home or away with high moral already in place. Howver I very rarely score any or more than one in the second half while the comp usually bosses the show. Tired all the drop downs and only "don't let performance drop" seems to let them hold their own but not done in depth reseach really. Any further 8.02 tips ... maybe halftime-wise you've discovered? Or is it a case that the inital tips you first posted for half times on 8.01 still work?

Thanks for all your hard work mate.

[The Gaffovski]

Originally posted by Jeff:

Great post and a fantastic guide. I never bothered to do the team talks.

I am on a 7 games unbeaten run right now.

But, I have not yet seen the option 'you can make a difference'.

Any suggestions?

Yes. That one's my favourite. If I'm drawing or losing at half-time, and the option "You can Make The Difference!" is available, I give it to the 3 or 4 players who have the lowest rating.

For example, the average rating throughout the team might be 7, but I give Team: Disappointing (or Angry). And 3 or 4 might have 6's, to those I give the You Can Make The Difference talk.

Works in my team (very determined).

[ashley.knott]

Wolfgang..you absolute hero. Epic.

[Joor]

I just want to say that even tho they have very high determination you cant just say Disappointing everytime they have a 6 at halftime.

If a player lack professionalism he gets angry, or lost confidence.

F.eks with Seedorf(19 determination, 18 pressure and 11 professionalism), when he have 6 at haftime and I say Disappointing to him - its always angry or lost confidence..sometimes nothing specific notice. Encourage or have faith work so much better.

With a player like Oddo(13 determination, 18 pressure and 18 professionalism), Disappointing when he has 6 at haftime is 8 out of 10 times a "fired up"...

[Amaroq]

Hey .. I just wanted to add about the full-time team talk "Warn against complacency in the next match".

I've got a top-of-the table, determined/professional team at the moment. We'd lost once all season, and that was a shock 3-0 against a team I was sure we would beat.

Now, I normally "look ahead" in the schedule, so I know what matches are coming up.

On my second-most recent match, away against a team we really should have beaten, we played very poorly: yes, we eked out a 1-0 for our sixth straight win .. but it was fairly ugly, with several narrow escapes, mistakes at the back, etc; 10 7's and an 8 for the goalscorer.

Before I gave my FT talk, I knew what my next match was: at home against a bottom feeder, a match we would be 100% expected to dominate. It was, to my mind, the classic trap game, the one which catches you out and the other team scores on their only shot on goal. In fact, it was the very team that had handed us our only loss .. and our play looked just like the situation that had led to that earlier defeat.

So:

FT from the 1-0 match: "Warn against complacency". (Nothing specific noted for any player)

No pre-match media comment.

Pre: "I expect a win", plus "Pick up where you left off" for the goalscorer. (Nothing specific noted for any player)

Result? He does just that, scoring in the 5th minute. We completely dominate play for the first half: the team looks much much crisper than we had the previous match, and the oppo. aren't getting a sniff. Its still 1-0, but we've spent the entire 45 minutes at their end. 7's across the board, with an 8 for the goalscorer.

HT: a routine 11-man "Encourage" - which somewhat unexpectedly got "delighted" from about half the squad.

Second-half, continued to dominate, team visibly hustling all over the pitch. Knocked in a second, and really played all-out when the oppo. went to their late-game attacking formation: every defender seemed to block a shot, great tackles in the box, never a loss of concentration anywhere, no shaky back-pass or late comeback - and an injury-time third to put the game out of reach.

Oddly, it also seemed that Condition dropped less than normal in this match: despite my perception that the guys were working really hard for each other, most didn't drop below 80% .. in a late-December match. Finished up with 6 8's, 5 7's, plus subs; opp. had mostly 5's and 6's.

FT: "Well done" (Nothing specific for 8 players, 1 "looked delighted", 2 "Happy, looked delighted")

. . .

Not sure it would work every time - but it had very much looked like we were getting complacent, and entering a match where complacency would be a big issue.

Would be interested to hear others' results with it!

[ashley.knott]

RIGHT. After my comment yesterday I am disappointed to report that your guide wolfgang does not work away from home, I went out the champions league. Also, it is not always possible to sub players on a 6 at half time for another sub, for example, I had rooney and owen up front, I followed your away guide and said 'you have faith' to them both and they both ended on a 6. I did better letting my assistant do the team talks to be honest.

[ashley.knott]

also I find dont let your performance drop to be highly effective as their performance does not drop, also if majority have sixes at half time and they are expected to win I find a good rollicking tends to do the trick, I think you may all be looking a bit too much into it, if they have a 6 tell them off, if they have an 8, dont let your performance drop then praise at full time.

[mikemanutd]

most of the time, the comment you van make the difference never appears for me. Does anyone know why. Maybe it is because I am near the start of the season and does anyone know when to use Go out there and prove a point?

[mikemanutd]

Sorry another question. Does this team talk guide work on the latest patch as I followed it for wiining 1-0 at home and drew 1-1 with a team I was much better then.

[Tony Tunnycliffe]

Thanks Wolfsong, very useful

[WillemII@Tilburg]

When playing with a big team, I have very poor results if I tell my squad they can win the game for away games... I have far better results if I simply expect a win against inferior opposition (even if it is away from home) of if I wish the team luck against strong opposition. No middle ground.

Another thing I noticed (allthough not very surprising) is that the half-time bullocking ("I expect a win, no excuses) works VERY well at home against your close rival. I was down 0-2 against Roma (I was Lazio and had a poor team compared to Roma), but after that speech, we won 3-2 and I was complimented for my half-time talk (I told my sub ST he could make the difference or that I had faith in him, can't remember which one). Hope this helps everyone.

P.S. GREAT thread this!

[ashley.knott]

Hello Willem, I completely agree with what you wrote. I found saying 'you can win this' or 'wish luck' when away from home tends not to work and normally resulted in bore draws. Also I agree with the rollocking thing.

[ashley.knott]

also I have a real problem with the nicey nicey approach, my players after a while were annoyed at lack of discipline, so I started to have a real go in the team talks and they settled down again

[WoIfsong]

Thanks guys for your contribution.

I have noticed changes to the effect of 'we can win' and 'wish luck' when I am playing as R.Madrid. Now I tend to use 'we can win this' when I lost the last game, if I use it when I am on a winning streak, it is likely that players get complacent. This is a good change because back in 8.01 and fm07, 'we can win this' is 95% guaranteed no-negative effect. Now this is more realistic.

Also I have noticed that for a strong team like R.Madrid, 'i expect a win' away also works.

Mikemanutd - the comment you can make the difference does not appear at H/T when you are leading.

ashley.knott - In my guide I recommend using 'you have faith' on strikers with rating 8 and occassionally with 7, I have too noticed that 'you have faith' on rating 6 strikers rarely works. Also lack of discipline is often caused by too many red cards and no fining, to me it is rarely caused by teamtalks.

Hope these help

[mikemanutd]

"you can make the difference" doesnt appear when im losing or drawing, it hardly ever appears and I was wondering the effect of individual team talk PM "i expect a performance" and HT "go out there and prove a point."

[biffydl]

Great post!

In my second season with Arsenal(2008-2009) I won the quad. League Cup, FA Cup, Premiership, and Champions League. Used your advice on team talks all season and it definitely had an impact. Thanks for making Football Manager fun again.

[biffydl]

Forgot! It was 1-1 at full time in the Champions League final and using these team talk guidelines I scored 5 goals in extra time to win 6-1 against Barcelona.

[stelly999]

Wolfsong - do squad and individual personalities have no bearing on team talks then???

[mikemanutd]

I seem to be getting the impression from my game that your team talk doesnt hae as such a big impact on the patch 8.0.2 because sometimes it works but a lot of the time it isnt having a positive impact and doesnt seem to work as well as people here are saying. That just my impression from my game.

[WoIfsong]

Hey mikemanutd, as I've pointed out I tried 'expect a performance' and 'prove a point' before and they never gave me any feedbacks i.e. nothing specific noted, so I just don't bother using them.

And you are right about 8.02 in that 'we can win' and 'wish luck' have higher chances of giving 'seemed demotived' result now. However, everything else in the original guide still works.

I am not too sure why you never see 'you can make a difference'...anyway when I don't see it, I just use 'you have faith' instead.

Just a screenshot from 8.02 RMarid game to show that the guide is still working

stelly999, squad and individual personality does matter but how exactly they matter I am not sure...I've tried my approach on determined/ambitious/professional squads and it worked on all of them. Individually, 'you have faith' and 'disappointing' work more often on some players than some others, for every new team I take over I just do trial and errors and then make adjustments according to the results.

[Dirty_ACE]

So is it better now to tell players that you expect them to win any time you are favorites whether you're home or away?

[Dirty_ACE]

I've been observing the effects of team talks in my first season using 8.0.2 patch. Seems more of them have been rendered useless more or less. I'm finding that now I have only a very limited variety of talks I can give because otherwise the team starts playing like they're suffering from narcolepsy.

My pre game talk consists of either "I expect a win" or "Have faith" or no talk at all. Anything else and the effects are negative.

At half time I usually do either "Have faith" for players with 8 or 7 or "Dissapointed" for ones with a 6. Seems that "Encourage" or "We can win this" puts my team to sleep and they start leaking goals early in the second half.

At full time I usually say "well done" or "dissapointed" depending on results.

I don't understand why the talks have been reworked like this. Why some talks that are supposed to be positive instead are negative.

This guide worked so well in 8.0.1 but now I'm a bit lost. I'd appreciate any help or tips.