Poor Set Piece Defending is Ruining the Enjoyment of FM24 - How to Counter This?

[bababooey]

Forgive me if this is a known bug, but how on earth did this make it through testing?

The defensive scrambles that ensue after a set piece are giving me nightmares. Every single time there is a throw-in, occurring in my defensive half, it's almost guaranteed to result in a shot on goal for the opposition. Defending in these situations is virtually non-existent.

In this first example, the other team has a free kick, and effectively, a free goal.  We don't bother marking the attacker at all! It's like our defense isn't even trying.

In this next example, off a throw in, the defense is basically paralyzed. Just standing around doing nothing.

I've got the best possible set piece coach. I've got elite players at every single position on the pitch. This isn't just a one-off, it's happening in many games. If we don't score 3+ goals per game, we risk dropping points because of these awful set piece scrambles.

But it's not just me, either.

This is huge problem.  What can be done *tactically* to fix this?  Do I have to manage set pieces manually and set them up to be ultra defensive?

 

Edited March 15 by bababooey

[vrig]

The first video isn't an example I see very often, but the second one obviously is. In my experience, the defending team really struggles with the second phase after the initial ball. In theory setting up zonally should somewhat limit this, but it still looks confused to me, and I basically start my commiserations the moment I see an unmarked opponent on the edge of the box for a corner. It's actually quite difficult to stick it in the top bins through a crowd of 20 players, but FM footballers are just built different I suppose.

Fortunately I support Manchester United, so I'm quite used to being despondent every time the other team gets a corner. At least we can give as good as we get in FM.

As to your closing question, don't give up too many set pieces. One of the numerous reasons a high press is easier to be successful with in the game is that your fouls and blocks are happening further from your goal. But more than that is just keeping the ball so that your team is the one getting fouled and blocked. Your "score more" strategy is also pretty sound.

[crusadertsar]

Don't give up set pieces. But seriously try to limit the amount you give to AI. Best way to deal with it.

Edited March 15 by crusadertsar

[bababooey]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Don't give up set pieces. But seriously try to limit the amount you give to AI. Best way to deal with it.

How does one not give up set pieces ?

[bababooey]

5 hours ago, vrig said:

The first video isn't an example I see very often, but the second one obviously is. In my experience, the defending team really struggles with the second phase after the initial ball. In theory setting up zonally should somewhat limit this, but it still looks confused to me, and I basically start my commiserations the moment I see an unmarked opponent on the edge of the box for a corner. It's actually quite difficult to stick it in the top bins through a crowd of 20 players, but FM footballers are just built different I suppose.

Fortunately I support Manchester United, so I'm quite used to being despondent every time the other team gets a corner. At least we can give as good as we get in FM.

As to your closing question, don't give up too many set pieces. One of the numerous reasons a high press is easier to be successful with in the game is that your fouls and blocks are happening further from your goal. But more than that is just keeping the ball so that your team is the one getting fouled and blocked. Your "score more" strategy is also pretty sound.

It's just infuriating that winning games 2-0 is now risky business because the opponent can easily score from these "set piece scrambles" or second phase after the initial ball.

I dont understand how this got through testing.  It's so obvious that it's painful to watch.

[Litmanen 10]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

It's just infuriating that winning games 2-0 is now risky business because the opponent can easily score from these "set piece scrambles" or second phase after the initial ball.

I dont understand how this got through testing.  It's so obvious that it's painful to watch.

Like I told you in the general feedback discussion: especially the throw-in issue is something that has been in the game for ten years already. I bet it would hand been fixed if it would be possible with the current match engine. 

Someone who has FM 2013 could check if they were already there. 

[herne79]

2 hours ago, bababooey said:

It's just infuriating that winning games 2-0 is now risky business because the opponent can easily score from these "set piece scrambles" or second phase after the initial ball.

I dont understand how this got through testing.  It's so obvious that it's painful to watch.

 

1 hour ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Like I told you in the general feedback discussion: especially the throw-in issue is something that has been in the game for ten years already. I bet it would hand been fixed if it would be possible with the current match engine. 

Someone who has FM 2013 could check if they were already there. 

Seeing as this has been in the game for “10 years” and it’s now so “risky” being 2-0 up, it should be pretty easy for both of you to go through your season’s results, count how many goals you’ve actually conceded from throw-ins during that time, open a bug report, post those findings and upload your saves.  Or at the very least quantify exactly how large a problem this is in this thread.

Personally I don’t see such issues.  That doesn’t make me right and you wrong, and there may well be room for improvement in the ME, but please post exactly what the problem is rather than all of these anecdotes.  How many goals have you actually conceded from throw-ins in your current season / previous season?  How many goals in total did you concede during the same period?  And also tell us (or, better, tell SI in your bug report) how many you’ve scored / scored in total.

I’m really not having a go here, it’s just that generalised statements never lead anywhere.  Quantify exactly what the problem is, back it up with hard facts not anecdotes of 10 year old issues or struggling when being 2-0 up .

(btw if you struggle when 2-0 up you probably have other issues than throw-ins).

[Cloud9]

13 hours ago, bababooey said:

This is huge problem.  What can be done *tactically* to fix this?  Do I have to manage set pieces manually and set them up to be ultra defensive?

I'm just letting my set piece coach do it and it's not been a problem for me! We're a mid table side, and 2/13 isn't too bad  I'm playing a 4-3-3 counter attacking system w/ tackle harder & a high defensive line to defend farther away from the goal. 

IRL a little less than 1/3rd of goals are scored from or directly after a set piece is taken, the rework is an attempt to address this.

Edited March 15 by Cloud9

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, bababooey said:

How does one not give up set pieces ?

Play more aggressively and keep AI out of your own zone. High-defensive line possession style. Of course this might not be possible depending on the quality of your team.

But seriously people need to stop blowing this out of proportion. I agree with both @herne79 and @Cloud9 It's not a huge problem at all. AI will barely score enough set piece goals to affect your final league position. You might see less than a handful during season. It's more a problem when human players use it to cheese the game engine. But even then who cares, people have the right to get enjoyment out of a single-player game however they wish right? 

Edited March 15 by crusadertsar

[Litmanen 10]

41 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Personally I don’t see such issues. 

With all due respect: then you are in denial. Because in general a large parts of build-ups do start from throw-ins and they do create a lot of chances. This is a fact, not a claim. 

I could challenge you also: post some comprehensive highlights of your games and show us that significant amount of build-ups don't start from throw-ins. 

I never said anything about too many goals being scored from set pieces. I would also think that I am actually scoring more than I am conceding. 

But the way that throw-ins work has been the same for about ten years and this is once again a fact. I have clocked so many hundreds of hours as a beta tester and posted so many examples of this issue in the past that I remember it quite well. Also checked my hard drive and had tens of examples from FM 2015 at least still saved.

Edited March 15 by Litmanen 10

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, bababooey said:

It's just infuriating that winning games 2-0 is now risky business because the opponent can easily score from these "set piece scrambles" or second phase after the initial ball.

I dont understand how this got through testing.  It's so obvious that it's painful to watch.

Do your defenders have poor mentals? it looks like the opposition are reading the game better than you in those set piece clips. Anticipation/concentration are two of the big ones for me when I'm looking at player's who I can rely upon to not switch off like that.

Edited March 15 by Cloud9

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, Litmanen 10 said:

With all due respect: then you are in denial. Because in general a large parts of build-ups do start from throw-ins and they do create a lot of chances. This is a fact, not a claim. 

I could challenge you also: post some comprehensive highlights of your games and show us that significant amount of build-ups don't start from throw-ins. 

I never said anything about too many goals being scored from set pieces. I would also think that I am actually scoring more than I am conceding. 

But the way that throw-ins work has been the same for about ten years and this is once again a fact. I have clocked so many hundreds of hours as a beta tester and posted so many examples of this issue in the past that I remember it quite well. Also checked my hard drive and had tens of examples from FM 2015 at least still saved.

Then you have plenty of facts to tell SI in your bug report when you start it .

[Litmanen 10]

1 minute ago, herne79 said:

Then you have plenty of facts to tell SI in your bug report when you start it .

I think I have done my part trying to help SI to improve the match engine in the past. My work nowadays comes with a price tag. 

Edited March 15 by Litmanen 10

[crusadertsar]

Mental attributes for good defending are absolutely essential. But I gotta stop preaching when it comes to defence in the game . It's rather simple. And it all starts with attributes. That's all. 

Edited March 15 by crusadertsar

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Mental attributes for good defending are absolutely essential. But I gotta stop preaching when it comes to defence in the game . It's rather simple. And it all starts with attributes. That's all. 

I frequently retrain Fullbacks and Defensive midfielders into other positions for those nice attributes! My right winger(s) at the moment is one of these player's so it's a bit more of a lopsided 4-4-2 (like Ancelotti's Madrid at times w/Valverde on the right wing, although a lot worse). 

16 hours ago, bababooey said:

If we don't score 3+ goals per game, we risk dropping points because of these awful set piece scrambles.

Most of the goals I'm conceding in my own save are actually when I'm looking to take the game to the opposition myself, not when I'm sitting back to defend.

I'll go full Mourinho and stop playing expansively at times and post how the results go at the end of my current season. If you're managing the game well, usually you have a fatigue advantage compared to the team attacking so seeing out the game is actually where you're strongest. 1-0 ahead with a half to play and we're cruising.

• If you're playing on the front foot instead and struggling to see out games, your player's fatigue compared to the opposition is again a factor. Also if you're an attacking side, conceding space and dropping back isn't necessarily a good way to see out games. It can work but if the team can't handle that pressure they'll collapse. Learning to control and see out games in a way that favors your players is important (that can be a possession based style of play as well). 

Here's my first few games from the season which all started against big opposition. As you can see, keeping clean sheets again superior opposition is not only doable but also repeatable throughout your save. 

Edited March 15 by Cloud9

[TommyToxic]

Defending corners vs AI is rarely a problem.

Hightlights from a throw in are very repetitive.

[Litmanen 10]

@herne79 even SI have marked this as a known issue. This was my first visit to the bugs forum so hadn't noticed it before. 

[herne79]

19 minutes ago, Litmanen 10 said:

@herne79 even SI have marked this as a known issue. This was my first visit to the bugs forum so hadn't noticed it before. 

You seem to be trying to make a point for some reason.  You should understand that known issues don’t necessarily affect everyone in the same manner.  As I said, I personally don’t regard this as being an issue (apparently I’m not alone in that) and as you do you should raise a bug report (or, as the case may be now, contribute to the existing one with examples).

btw, even though SI state it’s a known issue that shouldn’t preclude anyone from uploading specific examples - the more actual examples SI have (such as match pkm or game saves) the better to help them track things down in the code.  So if you’re going to reply to me again, reply there instead with a pkm - it’ll be far more constructive.

[Cloud9]

Here's a little mid season update after committing to the Mourinho style play (this is to demonstrate that conceding is not inevitable regardless of how you feel about set pieces):

Spoiler

2 goals in 9 games (neither from set pieces or penalties), although really it's the highest tackles in the league that makes me proud of the lads.

Edited March 16 by Cloud9

[warlock]

4 hours ago, Litmanen 10 said:

even SI have marked this as a known issue

Sorry, but this is one of my biggest complaints about the forums. SI marking something as a known issue just means they know people are complaining about it. Too many people read this as "SI know it's a bug", which isn't at all the same thing. 

Personally, I've never thought my teams were conceding too many from set-pieces, and certainly not from throw-ins.

[Litmanen 10]

28 minutes ago, warlock said:

Sorry, but this is one of my biggest complaints about the forums. SI marking something as a known issue just means they know people are complaining about it. Too many people read this as "SI know it's a bug", which isn't at all the same thing. 

Personally, I've never thought my teams were conceding too many from set-pieces, and certainly not from throw-ins.

Doesn't work like that as far as I know. The thread would have a status 'under review', 'information provided' or 'open' if it wouldn't have been already identified as something with an issue. 

And like I mentioned before: it's not about how many goals you score or concede, it's about how these scenarios (throw-ins in this case) generally work. 

I for example am not claiming that the statistics are showing that too many goals are scored for them and never said anything like that. 

I don't care either about me conceding, I also count the ones that I am scoring.

[lied90]

7 hours ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Doesn't work like that as far as I know. The thread would have a status 'under review', 'information provided' or 'open' if it wouldn't have been already identified as something with an issue. 

And like I mentioned before: it's not about how many goals you score or concede, it's about how these scenarios (throw-ins in this case) generally work. 

I for example am not claiming that the statistics are showing that too many goals are scored for them and never said anything like that. 

I don't care either about me conceding, I also count the ones that I am scoring.

This.

I concede almost no goals from AI set pieces (human set pieces are a different story). Main problem is how weird throw ins and corners play out.

Throw ins high up for me turn into highlights all the time and it always looks the same:

- Set fancy dribble man to take throw in
- Fancy dribble man gets a pass back after the throw
- Proceeds to cut inside or give a high quality cross, resulting in a goal or high xG chance.

Corners:

- Aim for front post
- Have 3-4 players outside the box
- You either score from a direct header, or the AIs defense can't deal with the ensuing chaos and I score from a long shot just outside the box.

I'd like to add that I only have 1 player back on defense, and I've NEVER conceded a goal from this.

Playing vs Human corners (short corners)

- Fancy dribble man A takes corner and passes to Fancy dribble man B
- Fancy dribble man B takes passes it on the someone outside the box (who I have no option to man mark, and "edge of area" trackers won't mark him), resulting in a high quality chance.
- Or, Fancy dribble man A gets the ball back and creates a chance from that.

I think all this happens for two reasons:

- Defense have a hard time readjusting after the initial set piece
- Fancy dribble men getting the ball when high up and wide after set pieces creates dangerous 1vs1 situations easily

Edited March 16 by lied90

[Cloud9]

Thought I'd include the update as I just wrapped up my season where we led fewest conceded, most clean sheets, and least conceded from set pieces:

Spoiler

Spoiler

This was a season where one of my starters, an 8 who was vital in my defensive pressing, snapped his cruciate and my goalkeeper was sidelined for 6 weeks where he'd done his wrist ligaments. Again we were 14th predicted going into the season and our Brazilian goalkeeper, Luiz Junior (a great goalkeeper but I don't think he has crazy ca/pa or anything), was pivotal to this approach. As I mentioned earlier, I had my set piece coach (set piece's 18) handle it all himself. You'll also notice that we only conceded 3 goals directly from a set piece all season. Getting the goals conceded down to .58 a game (and outperforming our xGa) was rewarding but also took a look of work in managing specific opposition and approaches.

• I would recommend a tall, consistent, shotstopper capable of attacking his own box (aggression, punching, communication, decent quickness, and rushing out) to deal with set pieces.
• The high defensive line on a midblock helped us commit non dangerous fouls on top of this, despite finishing as one of the sides w/the highest fouls committed. You'll need smart defenders as I touched on above (concentration and anticipation).

This is the base for the system I used:

Spoiler

• Moved fullbacks to wingbacks (d) when going direct. Wingers are off foot.

While there are always issues in the ME, and throw ins may be one of those issues, it's not game breaking and if you're conceding 2-0 leads it's on you. It's helpful to remember that the ME is just a reflection of the numbers behind the game. A shot hitting the bar (another thing that happens more often) is the games way of reflecting that you missed, and seeing it happen frequently (while frustrating) doesn't mean you should have scored. Similarly, just because you see a throw in goal happen more often, it doesn't necessarily indicate a bug.

Here's a link for anyone looking to improve the game for future versions: https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/ However, if you want help with how to make changes to your squad/tactic to not concede leads, then this forum is the place for you  

Edited March 17 by Cloud9

[timcliffsmith]

On 16/03/2024 at 10:08, lied90 said:

Corners:

- Aim for front post
- Have 3-4 players outside the box
- You either score from a direct header, or the AIs defense can't deal with the ensuing chaos and I score from a long shot just outside the box.

I'd like to add that I only have 1 player back on defense, and I've NEVER conceded a goal from this.

I've not noticed the issue with throw-ins, but since the update, scoring corners has simply vanished. 

I have no problems defending corners, but I simply cannot score at all. I will try this set-up and hope for something. Anything would be nice. A single goal!

Also, the number of penalties is ridiculous. SI needs to cut that figure at least in half, probably by a third.

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, timcliffsmith said:

Also, the number of penalties is ridiculous. SI needs to cut that figure at least in half, probably by a third.

I conceded 3 penalty league goals over the course of the season. Again, it's how you set up your squad/tactic.

Having my set piece coach manage set pieces, we still scored plenty off corners:

Spoiler

Edited March 17 by Cloud9

[timcliffsmith]

It's not just penalties conceded, it's also penalties given for you.

Happy for you with your set piece coach. I too tried a set piece coach after failing miserably with anything else. Guess what? Scored nothing with him also.

[Cloud9]

My team scored 4 penalties in the league. I don't see any crazy numbers in my own save, which makes sense since we're not primarily playing in either box (high defensive line, mid block). The physicality I use in my defensive approach makes us dangerous from set pieces with an appropriate taker, sounds like your squad may be lacking these elements. That's not just the player connecting with the ball to score but pace to commit more members forward, a physical player to bully the goalkeeper etc. Counter attacking teams are often strong in these conditions IRL, Brentford has led the set piece charts (efficiency/goals scored) in the 2 previous premier league seasons. 

The bigger problem is that you're stating there is a issue, w/out providing data and w/out really looking to fix the issue beyond declaring it broken. If you believe there's a bug go report it w/the data you have from your save, not here. I'd compare the numbers you're seeing in game to what's expected IRL.

This data graph is about a week old, but gives you an idea what's realistic. Note that this season is not completed yet, but the penalty rate is high this year (unsurprising w/VAR and increased injury time) and that penalty conversion is as well. My team is seeing .17 Goals Scored Per Game From Penalties (for and against), which is significantly below the Premier League expected rate of .25. Considering our lines I'd say that's a reasonable return. 

 

Edited March 17 by Cloud9

[lied90]

15 hours ago, timcliffsmith said:

I've not noticed the issue with throw-ins, but since the update, scoring corners has simply vanished. 

I have no problems defending corners, but I simply cannot score at all. I will try this set-up and hope for something. Anything would be nice. A single goal!

Also, the number of penalties is ridiculous. SI needs to cut that figure at least in half, probably by a third.

A player with 18 jumping reach and a simple front post corner still gets a lot of goals from direct headers, just not 30+ like in FM23.

About penalties, are you sure there are too many, or do you just FEEL that there are too many? Because giving away even one penalty feels as too many

[bababooey]

This feels like it's getting off topic.

The issue is, fundamentally, how does the defense reorganize after the initial restart of play? Regardless of this being a corner, a throw in, or a free kick.

It seems like defenses are "switched off" for a time during the restart of play, particularly during the ensuing scramble for possession if the set piece's initial throw/kick does not result in a goal directly.

That's the core issue here. I have no issues regarding the frequency of penalties, or anything like that. And my team can score plenty of goals from set pieces, which is besides the point.

[bababooey]

On 15/03/2024 at 12:58, herne79 said:

 

Seeing as this has been in the game for “10 years” and it’s now so “risky” being 2-0 up, it should be pretty easy for both of you to go through your season’s results, count how many goals you’ve actually conceded from throw-ins during that time, open a bug report, post those findings and upload your saves.  Or at the very least quantify exactly how large a problem this is in this thread.

Personally I don’t see such issues.  That doesn’t make me right and you wrong, and there may well be room for improvement in the ME, but please post exactly what the problem is rather than all of these anecdotes.  How many goals have you actually conceded from throw-ins in your current season / previous season?  How many goals in total did you concede during the same period?  And also tell us (or, better, tell SI in your bug report) how many you’ve scored / scored in total.

I’m really not having a go here, it’s just that generalised statements never lead anywhere.  Quantify exactly what the problem is, back it up with hard facts not anecdotes of 10 year old issues or struggling when being 2-0 up .

(btw if you struggle when 2-0 up you probably have other issues than throw-ins).

This is entirely fair and reasonable.

If I get the time, I will try to go back and see how many times this has been an issue.

But in the interim, I know what I've seen previously. And it's something I'm acutely aware of in future matches. For now, I've adjusted my set piece defending, manually, to ensure we have things locked down a bit tighter on the initial phase of play. The problem is, the resulting second phase, or scramble, where defending becomes much more difficult.

[Bahnzo]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

It seems like defenses are "switched off" for a time during the restart of play, particularly during the ensuing scramble for possession if the set piece's initial throw/kick does not result in a goal directly.

I agree. There's too many players who go unmarked (the corner or free kick taker for example) and this goes also for offensive players when the ball is intercepted and the team starts a counter. Too often they stand there confused about it and take too long to make an effort to get back into their defensive positions. 

[Cloud9]

9 hours ago, bababooey said:

The issue is, fundamentally, how does the defense reorganize after the initial restart of play? Regardless of this being a corner, a throw in, or a free kick.

It seems like defenses are "switched off" for a time during the restart of play, particularly during the ensuing scramble for possession if the set piece's initial throw/kick does not result in a goal directly.

This can be addressed as many have said above already:

1. Defending higher, away from an area that a set piece is dangerous.
2. Signing players capable of not turning off (high mentals).

I'll say it louder for the people in back, high mentals are the answer to most of your defensive woes on FM. 

Edited March 19 by Cloud9

[bababooey]

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

This can be addressed as many have said above already:

1. Defending higher, away from an area that a set piece is dangerous.
2. Signing players capable of not turning off (high mentals).

I'll say it louder for the people in back, high mentals are the answer to most of your defensive woes on FM. 

I'm managing Bayern Munich.  We have the best defenders in the world.  Their mental stats are insane. 

I can't do anything if things like this happen:

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

I'm managing Bayern Munich.  We have the best defenders in the world.  Their mental stats are insane. 

I can't do anything if things like this happen:

If your left back in Alphonso Davies, SI has actually given him really poor mental attributes:

Spoiler

Concentration 10, Anticipation 11, Positioning 10, and Marking 9 are all a death sentence, even for most games in the premier league but certainly so in a Champions League Semi Final. Personally I don't think this accurately represents the player at all as he is IRL (imo it's problematic and indicative of a wider issue of how players are perceived) but in game seeing him turn off like that should be excepted. There's no Var check because the runner is onside.

It's worth mentioning that you're playing against one of the best teams in the world. They're trying to score, so keeping the ball out of the net isn't something your team gets for granted. The opposition, in any match, is trying to get into goal scoring opportunities using their mental attributes (off the ball, anticipation etc.) and your defenders are using their defensive attributes (Anticipation, Concentration etc.) to try to shut that down. If you've got a system / defensive structure that can be easier to do, but in big games there's more dice rolling behind the scene (consistency, big games etc.) and those attributes can be even lower in a big match like a Champions League Semi Final than what it says on the player profile.

Utilizing defensive traps can help you become resolute at the back, in real life the right back would get yelled out for not stopping the cross which is something you can do in the match engine! Again the player who makes the cross Robertson, is difficult to influence he's incredibly quick, technically adept, and mentally strong. I'm not sure who your right back is, but he will struggle to deal with such a strong player bombing on, a midfield tweak like a CAR can give him a babysitter if he's getting exposed. I think Kimmich is Bayern's starting right back this year? He's got 12 pace, 12 acceleration which will see him burned against Robertson in a 1v1 like above. Bayern also lack a real DM, one of Tuchel's main gripes this year, and that lack of physicality in the 6 will see you get hit like this when the ball is turned over. 

Posting your tactic can help, one of the advantages to playing as a big side is if things aren't working you can be sure it's a tactical issue (and not the players) for the most part. If you've got pace like Davies, his speed can make up for his attributes like positioning on a really high line, but once you're close to the goal like that you're going to be in real trouble.

Edited March 19 by Cloud9

[Bahnzo]

24 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

If your left back in Alphonso Davies, SI has actually given him really poor mental attributes:

  Reveal hidden contents

Concentration 10, Anticipation 11, Positioning 10, and Marking 9 are all a death sentence, even for most games in the premier league but certainly so in a Champions League Final. Personally I don't think this accurately represents the player at all as he is IRL (imo it's problematic and indicative of a wider issue of how players are perceived) but in game seeing him turn off like that should be excepted. There's no Var check because the runner is onside.

It's worth mentioning that you're playing against one of the best teams in the world. They're trying to score, so keeping the ball out of the net isn't something your team gets for granted. The opposition, in any match, is trying to get into goal scoring opportunities using their mental attributes (off the ball, anticipation etc.) and your defenders are using their defensive attributes (Anticipation, Concentration etc.) to try to shut that down. If you've got a system / defensive structure that can be easier to do, but in big games there's more dice rolling behind the scene (consistency, big games etc.) and those attributes can be even lower in a big match like a Champions Final than what it says on the player profile.

Utilizing defensive traps can help you become resolute at the back, in real life the right back would get yelled out for not stopping the cross which is something you can do in the match engine! Posting your tactic can help, one of the advantages to playing as a big side is if things aren't working you can be sure it's a tactical issue (and not the players) for the most part. 

If you've got pace like Davies, his speed can make up for his attributes like positioning on a really high line, but once you're close to the goal like that you're going to be in real trouble. 

Not sure what this has to do with the VAR blowing a call, unless SI is trying to emulate how bad that is too. But nice job trying to cherry pick the one guy he possibly has on his team in a effort to explain away what he sees. 

It's 2040 in my game right now, and I have one of the best teams in the game, with impressive mentals for everyone, not just my defense. I still see guys being left unmarked on free kicks all the time, as well as the usual of leaving guys unmarked after the kick/corner is taken. It's not a "mentality" issue, it's a game issue. 

It must be uncomfortable having to wear that cheerleading outfit all the time, man.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

If your left back in Alphonso Davies, SI has actually given him really poor mental attributes:

  Reveal hidden contents

Concentration 10, Anticipation 11, Positioning 10, and Marking 9 are all a death sentence, even for most games in the premier league but certainly so in a Champions League Semi Final. Personally I don't think this accurately represents the player at all as he is IRL (imo it's problematic and indicative of a wider issue of how players are perceived) but in game seeing him turn off like that should be excepted. There's no Var check because the runner is onside.

It's worth mentioning that you're playing against one of the best teams in the world. They're trying to score, so keeping the ball out of the net isn't something your team gets for granted. The opposition, in any match, is trying to get into goal scoring opportunities using their mental attributes (off the ball, anticipation etc.) and your defenders are using their defensive attributes (Anticipation, Concentration etc.) to try to shut that down. If you've got a system / defensive structure that can be easier to do, but in big games there's more dice rolling behind the scene (consistency, big games etc.) and those attributes can be even lower in a big match like a Champions League Semi Final than what it says on the player profile.

Utilizing defensive traps can help you become resolute at the back, in real life the right back would get yelled out for not stopping the cross which is something you can do in the match engine! Again the player who makes the cross Robertson, is difficult to influence he's incredibly quick, technically adept, and mentally strong. I'm not sure who your right back is, but he will struggle to deal with such a strong player bombing on, a midfield tweak like a CAR can give him a babysitter if he's getting exposed. I think Kimmich is Bayern's starting right back this year? He's got 12 pace, 12 acceleration which will see him burned against Robertson in a 1v1 like above. Bayern also lack a real DM, one of Tuchel's main gripes this year, and that lack of physicality in the 6 will see you get hit like this when the ball is turned over. 

Posting your tactic can help, one of the advantages to playing as a big side is if things aren't working you can be sure it's a tactical issue (and not the players) for the most part. If you've got pace like Davies, his speed can make up for his attributes like positioning on a really high line, but once you're close to the goal like that you're going to be in real trouble.

Davies actually plays for Liverpool in my save.  I sold him for 90 million euros.

Our left back in the screenshot have Goncalo Inacio, retrained as an inverted full back.  He's a beast of a player.

[Cloud9]

10 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Davies actually plays for Liverpool in my save.  I sold him for 90 million euros.

Our left back in the screenshot have Goncalo Inacio, retrained as an inverted full back.  He's a beast of a player.

Inacio then doesn't sound like the issue, but it's impossible to diagnosis off of one screenshot of you conceding a goal. I've listed steps you can take that will improve your system above. FM24 is tinker heavy and requires a proactive defensive approach. It requires more effort than previous editions. 

At this point I really can't help you if you continue to insist you're doing it right and also claim the game is broken. Good luck to you both. 

[Fraser.]

I use a set piece coach and leave it to him and haven't had any issues.

[Bahnzo]

2 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Inacio then doesn't sound like the issue, but it's impossible to diagnosis off of one screenshot of you conceding a goal. I've listed steps you can take that will improve your system above. FM24 is tinker heavy and requires a proactive defensive approach. It requires more effort than previous editions. 

At this point I really can't help you if you continue to insist you're doing it right and also claim the game is broken. Good luck to you both. 

The set piece creator new this year, is it not? It's not a stretch to believe there's some kinks that need working out. Continuing to deny that doesn't help fix. 

[Dr Naysay]

2 hours ago, Fraser. said:

I use a set piece coach and leave it to him and haven't had any issues.

Yup, same here.

[R0ca]

I think it’s important to recognise a couple of points. 
 

Even if your players have maxed attributes they will still make mistakes or switch off. One of the keys in this game which will help reduce frustration is to accept your players will make mistake and they will cost you goals. 
 

If your playing with a team which dominates you can’t win every game -0, you will concede, it might be a throw in, it might a corner perhaps a long shot but you will concede. 
 

Once you accept this you will enjoy the game a lot more. 

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

The set piece creator new this year, is it not? It's not a stretch to believe there's some kinks that need working out. Continuing to deny that doesn't help fix. 

Over on the GD forums you’ve shown you have great success producing quite a few 1 nils with Dynamo Dresden.

Would that have been possible if set pieces were entirely bugged? Based on what you guys are saying, you’re conceding almost everytime, but your screenshot says otherwise.
 

@bababooeyI would be keen to see your set piece set up. 
 

As far as free kicks are concerned defending sides are always going to be outnumbered so your setup is important and your priority lists as well.  
 

I would like to see the set ups of those who are having issues. Naturally having a bunch of short players in your side never helps, I find that at minimum you need at least 4 players who can win headers.

[poma]

12 hours ago, Fraser. said:

12 hours ago, Fraser. said:

I use a set piece coach and leave it to him and haven't had any issues.

 

9 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

Yup, same here.

Same here but didn't score a single goal from corners in 38 games (Premier League) 

 

[Bahnzo]

20 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Over on the GD forums you’ve shown you have great success producing quite a few 1 nils with Dynamo Dresden.

Would that have been possible if set pieces were entirely bugged? Based on what you guys are saying, you’re conceding almost everytime, but your screenshot says otherwise.

Like I said earlier, I've got a *great* team. They don't concede many goals, period. That doesn't mean there's not issues with how players react on set pieces. Like constantly leaving the corner taker unmarked to the point you can basically get a 2nd free corner. And that's not just when I defend, it's defending against me as well. 

As I said, it's a new feature right? It's not uncommon there's gonna be bugs here and there.

[Rashidi]

45 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Like I said earlier, I've got a *great* team. They don't concede many goals, period. That doesn't mean there's not issues with how players react on set pieces. Like constantly leaving the corner taker unmarked to the point you can basically get a 2nd free corner. And that's not just when I defend, it's defending against me as well. 

As I said, it's a new feature right? It's not uncommon there's gonna be bugs here and there.

I have a great team too, 60% of my matches playing a low block ended with the opposition never scoring a goal off any set piece or open play.  There is also a very simple answer to why players are unmarked which you haven’t addressed by showing me your set pieces. I don’t have the same problems others are having with direct free kicks either, the one where someone is left unmarked for a simple shot on goal. There are times when the Ai leaves that player unmarked and I can see why. 
 

Like  I said earlier people need to see these set pieces before they agree with your point of view. 
 

if you want everyone marked from a corner then you have to set it up right. The AI sometimes does it and sometimes doesn’t which boils down to the AI managers set piece routine. There might be bugs, but I am one of those who when defending a corner or a free kick has no worries about defending.

[Bahnzo]

5 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I don’t have the same problems others are having with direct free kicks either, the one where someone is left unmarked for a simple shot on goal. There are times when the Ai leaves that player unmarked and I can see why. 

Then why not show us or tell us? Why is it always, "we need to see your <tactic/set piece> before we can help"? Why not just post your set piece and show us how you are doing it? Same with the corner taker being left open. I'd love to see how you fix that. 

[Rashidi]

2 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Then why not show us or tell us? Why is it always, "we need to see your <tactic/set piece> before we can help"? Why not just post your set piece and show us how you are doing it? Same with the corner taker being left open. I'd love to see how you fix that. 

Cause I don’t need to. It’s not fixing a problem, it’s simple math. Have the right numbers defending and be smart about the priority lists. Want a guide go read one or watch a video. There are plenty out there. If you have 4 in your wall then you are doing things wrong. Wanna shut down the extra man have 2 edge of area. Wanna close down corner taker, choose the right players.

[Bahnzo]

8 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Cause I don’t need to.

Ya, you kinda do. When you are telling people "I don't have that problem because I set up things correctly", then show it. It doesn't need a video or a long guide, just explain how do you set up your set piece. Or just link to it. But don't come here and tell us we're doing it wrong and then tell us you don't have to show us how to do it right. Put your money where your mouth is, man. 

[Rashidi]

21 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Ya, you kinda do. When you are telling people "I don't have that problem because I set up things correctly", then show it. It doesn't need a video or a long guide, just explain how do you set up your set piece. Or just link to it. But don't come here and tell us we're doing it wrong and then tell us you don't have to show us how to do it right. Put your money where your mouth is, man. 

Like you should too. Cos I call on you to prove it’s a match engine flaw. Show me your set pieces. It cuts both ways. SI also have data that shows how many goals are being conceded from set pieces and it’s all within acceptable ranges, but you said it “constantly” happens, and then have a save where you have got loads of clean sheets! Which is it? Constantly? Cos by you mr own admission it’s not happening “constantly” otherwise you would have never produced an invincible season with loads of clean sheets.

Or are your trying to make sure you NEVER concede from set pieces? Cos that sounds insanely unrealistic.

I don’t need to prove anything to you. My help is reserved for the OP should he require it.

[Bahnzo]

1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

SI also have data that shows how many goals are being conceded from set pieces and it’s all within acceptable ranges, but you said it “constantly” happens

I don't say it's constantly scoring too many goals, I say it's leaving people open constantly. It's not a problem for me, because I have some great players who negate that. But I see how people are complaining about it, because I do see those flaws. When I didn't have all these super star players, it was an issue. 

Go ahead and cop out man. You wanna tell us we're wrong, but then not how to fix it? Sure thing. 

btw - I'll have to go watch your twitch again and see how much you rag on me and others about this. I had to stop watching when you called some guy from this forum a "muppet" and a "loser" because he said his private multiplayer league banned the exploit which allowed tons of crosses. Ragging on people from this forum on your twitch ain't a good look for you, man.