[FM 24] the difficulty of defending

[Coldspur]

Hi. I have played FM since its first edition, every year less though. Year after year the game has become more and more challenging, but I have always managed to find a way to succeed. However, now its seems that that road has come into end. Defence is leaky and attack is ineffective.

Results since November in my current save with 24.3.0:

 

I have tend to play with 4-4-2 over the years, because in my opinion it offers everything whats needed in football. 2 strikers, solid defence, width and all around compactness. Also 4-4-2 offers great base for counter-attacking football, which I personally favour over control possessing, total voetbal, tiki-taka etc. systems with hardcore pressure.

 

Above is my latest draft. CDs and CMs seems to be the achilles heel of the system. They tend to be over aggressive at times and result of that they allow opponent to walk through them, Kobel faces a lot of 1v1 situations

 

I have already tried following things:

This makes Sabitzer to be too passive and Can's plot is way too big. Also opponent's ST runs between CDs are increasing:

I have also gone over my comfort zone and attached Heavy-metal style of football

 

I am wondering what am I doing wrong as this has been a trend, similar kind of behaviour was with PSV I played earlier. Any help would be appreciated

[caco4003]

yeah defending is an issue in this fm24, its very hard to keep a clean sheet which sometimes can be frustrating

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, Coldspur said:

Hi. I have played FM since its first edition, every year less though. Year after year the game has become more and more challenging, but I have always managed to find a way to succeed. However, now its seems that that road has come into end. Defence is leaky and attack is ineffective.

Results since November in my current save with 24.3.0:

 

I have tend to play with 4-4-2 over the years, because in my opinion it offers everything whats needed in football. 2 strikers, solid defence, width and all around compactness. Also 4-4-2 offers great base for counter-attacking football, which I personally favour over control possessing, total voetbal, tiki-taka etc. systems with hardcore pressure.

 

Above is my latest draft. CDs and CMs seems to be the achilles heel of the system. They tend to be over aggressive at times and result of that they allow opponent to walk through them, Kobel faces a lot of 1v1 situations

 

I have already tried following things:

This makes Sabitzer to be too passive and Can's plot is way too big. Also opponent's ST runs between CDs are increasing:

I have also gone over my comfort zone and attached Heavy-metal style of football

 

I am wondering what am I doing wrong as this has been a trend, similar kind of behaviour was with PSV I played earlier. Any help would be appreciated

[thizaum]

I think the discussion is (or should be) much deeper than this.

What's the xG in comparison with conceded goals looking like?

You should aim to have a low or very low xG against you, but sometimes you concede in a corner, for example.

 

Then, and I'm not saying this will solve your problem, I think the way you play may leave your defense exposed. Not a lot of help from FBs or DMs. Frankly, in a 4-defender formation, I always aim to have one extra helper (FB or DM). Usually this means having this guy a defend duty, but depending on mentality or PIs, it can work with support as well.

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, Coldspur said:

I am wondering what am I doing wrong as this has been a trend, similar kind of behaviour was with PSV I played earlier. Any help would be appreciated

Try using traps for a more defensive style this year, here's an ongoing thread for defensive football on FM24 

I would sort out the left hand side of your tactic defensively and try dropping the midfield two back to the DMs. This gives access to the SV(s) who is basically a defensive BBM. At the moment your midfield duo is a little static.

You're also Dortmund and not many teams will be willing to bring the game to you in Germany which can make a low block tricky.

Lastly, you've got shorter passing on w/a fairly isolated striker pairing. If you want a fluid counter, look to bridge that gap or consider playing more direct. I'd prefer a striker pairing who offered a bit more out of possession in a low block 4-4-2.

Edited March 1 by Cloud9

[caco4003]

hace 49 minutos, Cloud9 dijo:

Try using traps for a more defensive style this year, here's an ongoing thread for defensive football on FM24 

I would sort out the left hand side of your tactic defensively and try dropping the midfield two back to the DMs. This gives access to the SV(s) who is basically a defensive BBM. At the moment your midfield duo is a little static.

You're also Dortmund and not many teams will be willing to bring the game to you in Germany which can make a low block tricky.

Lastly, you've got shorter passing on w/a fairly isolated striker pairing. If you want a fluid counter, look to bridge that gap or consider playing more direct. I'd prefer a striker pairing who offered a bit more out of possession in a low block 4-4-2.

ive tried using trap outside + invite crosses since i believe crosses should be easier to defend (at least it was like that last year) but this year im having a really hard time defending crosses

[NineCloudNine]

I would personally drop your CMs to the DM strata. You'll be more defensively solid and - IMO -it's a more accurate reflection of how 2 CM midfields work IRL.

I'm also a little sceptical about using Step Up More with a Low Block since this means when your defenders get it wrong the opposition are likely through on - and close to - your goal.

Edited March 1 by NineCloudNine

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, caco4003 said:

ive tried using trap outside + invite crosses since i believe crosses should be easier to defend (at least it was like that last year) but this year im having a really hard time defending crosses

Do you have height in your pivot? If they're dropped back to the DM strata they will be better positioned to deal with the crosses you're inviting. 

Your wide roles / profiles are flair players and offer little defensive output. If you're pushing opposition into these areas you'll want a different profile player. AP(a) + AMC strata + Julian Brandt stands out here, particularly w/a wingback(s) behind him. WM/DW are much better suited to holding / aggressively contesting wide spaces. 

If you want to make things work defensively and in a similar mold to what you're doing now, move the directness up, drop Brandt back to a WP role in the CM strata, the CMs to DMs, and your WB to FB(a).

Otherwise, I'd consider playing a Brazilian style 4-4-2 where the wide player's cut inside to create a 4-2-2-2 type formation in possession. This would be abandoning your defensive roots, but since you're the 2nd biggest side in the Bundesliga that might not be a bad thing. 

On trap outside being easier to defend that trap inside: That's not really the case, it's dependent on your setup and your opponents. You won't look to use outside traps in every system because they're "strong," you'll look to use them because your team can deal with crosses and can double up on opponents in wide spaces (at the moment that's not the case in your setup due to wide roles and player profiles). You'd also use trap outside when the opponents game plan is to flood the center of the pitch, which is common on FM24 w/IWBs and positional play.

• A well put together 4-4-2 is extremely versatile, capable of trapping inside and outside with the right changes. If you want to trap inside on a 4-4-2 you'd want to have a striker pairing who aren't isolated from the CMs, as you'd need them to complete the pressing box in the center of the pitch. Again, an isolated AF+TF provide little out of possession which makes this difficult. I would typically reduce the width of the formation when attempting to pull off a central trap and consider moving the DMs up to the CM strata for this. 
• When using traps, it's important to make changes for the opposition. If you just set up your defensive style and play every match the same, you'll get burnt against unsuitable opposition.

Other than that, I would recommend watching how your team concedes goals in matches and make small adjustments from there. 

Edited March 1 by Cloud9

[g1nh0]

8 hours ago, caco4003 said:

yeah defending is an issue in this fm24, its very hard to keep a clean sheet which sometimes can be frustrating

Definitely this, it's a very poor ME this year with the game geared much more towards offensive / gegenpress football. So you're better off going with an offensive approach, otherwise you'll just end up getting frustrated. This especially if you play in a network game, it will just be even more evident.

I also know there were a lot of issues raised about the 442 not being useable this year too on previous patches, so maybe it is still a problem trying to implement this formation effectively in this particular engine.

[whatsupdoc]

The main issue with defending is that defenders do not actively engage their opponent enough, especially when dribbling. 

They also run away from dangerous players receiving the ball to mark other attackers. 

There's not a lot you can do about this other than play in your opponents half. 

[Dr Naysay]

There's a video out on YouTube of a guy that created a defensive tactic and conceded 5 goals in 11 games whilst having played with Luton all whilst taking 5 points off of Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle.

This thing about only being able to succeed defensively by using Gegenpressing tactics is tiresome. If you believe the match engine is to blame for your woes it is best to take this to the General Discussion forum.

None of this is aimed at OP btw, if you are wanting to play a defensively solid game OP I really would recommend reading that defensive football thread that has been posted or actually searching YouTube to get some ideas on setting up a defensive tactic because I can see some issues with your tactical setup that I think would leave you flat during defensive transitions.

Edited March 2 by Dr Naysay

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

There's a video out on YouTube of a guy that created a defensive tactic and conceded 5 goals in 11 games whilst having played with Luton all whilst taking 5 points off of Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle.

This thing about only being able to succeed defensively by using Gegenpressing tactics is tiresome. If you believe the match engine is to blame for your woes it is best to take this to the General Discussion forum.

None of this is aimed at OP btw, if you are wanting to play a defensively solid game OP I really would recommend reading that defensive football thread that has been posted or actually searching YouTube to get some ideas on setting up a defensive tactic because I can see some issues with your tactical setup that I think would leave you flat during defensive transitions.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The claim that this year's ME is only geared towards Geggenpress attacking is a lazy response that doesn't take many factors into account. In fact that claim has been around since FM19 or FM20 at least or around the time when geggenpress changes (counterpress instruction, line of engagement, ect) to tactics creator have been around.

Sure you could download one of them "meta" Geggen tactics (you know which ones, especially those with maxed tactical intensity in the red zone and every single team instruction selected) and then win every trophy with Luton. Or you could actually take time and set up your defence so it actually makes sense and fits with your team. Or actually check which opposition you play or whether it's Away or Home game. Make little tweaks match to match, rest your key players. Give team talks and maintain good morale. That takes time and effort and is most definitely not lazy. And it shows via results, especially in defending stats. 

Edited March 2 by crusadertsar

[Rashidi]

22 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

The main issue with defending is that defenders do not actively engage their opponent enough, especially when dribbling. 

They also run away from dangerous players receiving the ball to mark other attackers. 

There's not a lot you can do about this other than play in your opponents half. 

I can’t agree with this. I’ve had a lot of success with a high and a mid block, playing possession football without once turning to gegenpressing as a style. 
 

The positional play feature is too strong on FM, if someone understands how the roles move, it’s easy getting optimal spacing for your players and when that happens it’s easy to disrupt the oppositions tempo.  
 

If you see players running away from dangerous players or players engaging the wrong targets that’s definitely user related. It’s so easy in the game to ensure you only have one player closing down a target while the rest shut down passing lanes.

It’s your structure that defines how well your team defends. At the moment I hardly use, counter and  maximum trigger pressing and it’s just a game of keeping clean sheets. 

With my Gloucester team playing with conference standard attributes in L2  I used a 442 and played higher up the pitch and had my players set up in a 325, each time we attacked and lost the ball we won it back against Accrington Stanley. After scoring a goal we went into a mid block 424 where the opposition struggled to dribble through our lines. With their attacks breaking down we scored 2 more on the counter.

There’s plenty a person can do to play different styles of football.  I even laughed my head silly when someone claimed their gegenpressing all conquering tactic was gonna smash it got hanmered by my counter attacking 424 which was played on a cautious mid block. 
 

The issue for most people is:

They can’t identify what the AI is doing when it tweaks roles and duties mid game. This can have a massive impact.

They can’t do a basic comparison between their rest defense and the opponents rest defense and then identify vulnerabilties in the setup.

Finally they are just bad at player and role selection. The tactic listed by the OP has some glaring issues that will get exploited by the positional play features of FM24.

[caco4003]

hace 4 horas, Rashidi dijo:

I can’t agree with this. I’ve had a lot of success with a high and a mid block, playing possession football without once turning to gegenpressing as a style. 
 

The positional play feature is too strong on FM, if someone understands how the roles move, it’s easy getting optimal spacing for your players and when that happens it’s easy to disrupt the oppositions tempo.  
 

If you see players running away from dangerous players or players engaging the wrong targets that’s definitely user related. It’s so easy in the game to ensure you only have one player closing down a target while the rest make it hard to shut down passing lanes.

It’s your structure that defines how well your team defends. At the moment I hardly use, counter and  maximum trigger pressing and it’s just a game of keeping clean sheets. 

With my Gloucester team playing with conference standard attributes in L2  I used a 442 and played higher up the pitch and had my players set up in a 325, each time we attacked and lost the ball we won it back against Accrington Stanley. After scoring a goal we went into a mid block 424 where the opposition struggled to dribble through our lines. With their attacks breaking down we scored 2 more on the counter.

There’s plenty a person can do to play different styles of football.  I even laughed my head silly when someone claimed their gegenpressing all conquering tactic was gonna smash it got hanmered by my counter attacking 424 which was played on a cautious mid block. 
 

The issue for most people is:

They can’t identify what the AI is doing when it tweaks roles and duties mid game. This can have a massive impact.

They can’t do a basic comparison between their rest defense and the opponents rest defense and then identify vulnerabilties in the setup.

Finally they are just bad at player and role selection. The tactic listed by the OP has some glaring issues that will get exploited by the positional play features of FM24.

its hard to keep a plan when set peices and broken and they can easily score from a corner or a throw in

[Cloud9]

43 minutes ago, caco4003 said:

its hard to keep a plan when set peices and broken and they can easily score from a corner or a throw in

The other top thread at the moment is someone complaining they can't score enough off set pieces and it's broken  

They've reworked set pieces this year to reflect their importance IRL. I believe it's 25-30% of goals are scored from or directly after a set piece at the top level.

Yes, this will be difficult to adjust to defensively as a manager and you will struggle if you don't. 

Edited March 2 by Cloud9

[caco4003]

hace 14 minutos, Cloud9 dijo:

The other top thread at the moment is someone complaining they can't score enough off set pieces and it's broken  

They've reworked set pieces this year to reflect their importance IRL. I believe it's 25-30% of goals are scored from or directly after a set piece at the top level.

Yes, this will be difficult to adjust to defensively as a manager and you will struggle if you don't. 

well i just won a game 4-1. Out of those 5 goals 4 came from set pieces, they are definitely overtuned...

[HanziZoloman]

It’s a bit funny yes but the forum provides so much help especially for beginners. Sometimes I feel it’s all against me but it’s just a game and I like it. 

[Dr Naysay]

20 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Couldn't have said it better myself. The claim that this year's ME is only geared towards Geggenpress attacking is a lazy response that doesn't take many factors into account. In fact that claim has been around since FM19 or FM20 at least or around the time when geggenpress changes (counterpress instruction, line of engagement, ect) to tactics creator have been around.

Sure you could download one of them "meta" Geggen tactics (you know which ones, especially those with maxed tactical intensity in the red zone and every single team instruction selected) and then win every trophy with Luton. Or you could actually take time and set up your defence so it actually makes sense and fits with your team. Or actually check which opposition you play or whether it's Away or Home game. Make little tweaks match to match, rest your key players. Give team talks and maintain good morale. That takes time and effort and is most definitely not lazy. And it shows via results, especially in defending stats. 

If you go down the rabbit hole it's actually worse than that, apparently it's double mezzala 433's that completely nerf the match engine and it's the only way you can play and win. I don't mind if these people want to not see what's right in front of them and ignore all advice but I really wish it was left in the bugs/general forum. It is frustrating when someone comes on here to ask advice and people like yourself who try to help are often drowned out by the "don't bother the m.e is broken, the game is unplayable" crowd. If some of these people spent even a modicum of time to read the useful threads on here they might actually contribute more in future to others learning instead of heading down in to odd echo chambers.

Anyway, you are very right  regarding resting players, making tweaks and maintaining good morale. I don't think people realise just how much of an effect a small change in squad morale can effect a tactic in one game and then snowball in to an all out bad patch. This years version is also imo one of the most tweak happy versions and if you aren't making adjustments to what you are seeing in game you will get a lot more frustrating results. For instance @Rashiditouched on this in one of his vids but if the opposition changes their static midfield role in to a RPM or any other more mobile role and you have them tight marked you are in for a bad time as your midfielder chases him all over the pitch leaving holes in your midfield, you really have to read and react.

Edited March 3 by Dr Naysay

[Overmars]

So much gaslighting in this thread. If people aren't seeing gegenpress/high-press tactics performing better than others then I don't know what game they are playing. And yes, defenders in FM really do struggle to follow dribblers. They are like traffic cones out there, and the game doesn't accurately depict how much clutching and grabbing modern defenders are doing in real life in order to slow attacks.

[Rashidi]

Hmm, ok There is a trend where people seem to feel the only way to play is via gegen pressing. So I started a 442 with Everton. The goal is to play only the 442 and I have to admit it’s a lot of fun playing it in different ways.

I will expand on this a bit more and will probably update this thread as I continue my save but, it’s entirely possible to do this.

When playing a 442 the challenge is identifying your own teams strengths and weaknesses and in most cases adapting to what the opposition is doing. Sticking one 442 in and not make changes is probably going to give you a lot of issues especially if you seek to send those fullbacks up in attack.

I am not in front of my PC and will make this short, but will update later.

1. What kind of team do you have?

Everton only have Branthwaite who has jumping reach and heading to match. And with 4 others at 14, it isn’t strong in the air.

2. It has two strong forwards and a decent IW in Danjuma. On the right a slower McNeil and probably a retrained Patterson as winger options.

3. Fairly aggressive centre mids with Garner being creative and Doucoure a threat with long shots.

First thing I did was set up set pieces to play them all short so we can keep the ball, Near and far post options aren’t very good.

I have 4 types of 442. One mid block played with 4 defend duties a winger on attack and 2 strikers on attack duty and it has done very well, shutting the Hammers down and given us a good start.

When I played Manchester City I took a leaf from Arsenal’s book and played a low block, trap outside and invite crosses, got both CMs to play on defend duty and turned both strikers to pressing forwards. We went to City and walked away with a point by being disciplined and giving them little space between the lines. 
 

You can do this both, most people I notice never adjust pressing intensity or use opposition instructions. For this match I used OIs to show the wingers to the flanks and the CMs too. City were reduced to taking long shots and because Haaland wasn’t playing I didn’t have to worry about aerial threats.

Playing a 442 well with an underdog requires thought.

[Rashidi]

On 03/03/2024 at 03:51, caco4003 said:

its hard to keep a plan when set peices and broken and they can easily score from a corner or a throw

My subscribers want the AI to file a bug report against me, cos apparently I am a set piece merchant with the short corner routine.

[herne79]

18 hours ago, Overmars said:

So much gaslighting in this thread.

Nobody is trying to manipulate someone else’s perception of reality.  It’s just a game and this is just a discussion.

18 hours ago, Overmars said:

If people aren't seeing gegenpress/high-press tactics performing better than others then I don't know what game they are playing

The reality is that pretty much any well thought through tactical system can be “overpowered”.  People in this forum have been demonstrating that for years.  The difference is that such systems tend to require more thought and effort whereas gegenpress tends to be easier to set up.  Easy is not the same thing as overpowered.

If people want to use gegenpress they can, no problem at all.  On the other hand if people want to have a discussion about how they can do otherwise, that’s when threads like this pop up.  So no “gaslighting”, just discussion .

Edited April 1 by herne79

[Dr Naysay]

I think we are in serious danger of chasing off some of the best FM tactical minds from this forum, it happened with Cleon and it happened with a few other people and it really needs to stop because we can't afford to lose people on here who hand out great advice because a minority of people are too convinced of their own truth.

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

I think we are in serious danger of chasing off some of the best FM tactical minds from this forum, it happened with Cleon and it happened with a few other people and it really needs to stop because we can't afford to lose people on here who hand out great advice because a minority of people are too convinced of their own truth.

True this. Can't help but notice that the forum has become more toxic then ever due that kind of "group speak". I play this game and write about it in this forum to have fun and to share this joy with other like-minded individuals, not to incessantly argue with those few angry players that keep saying that the game is broken because there is only one "meta" way to succeed. Sure there might exist some game-breaking strategies. They always did, even going back to days of Champ Manager. But this doesn't refute the fact that with some hard work other styles of football can be viable in FM. In fact there are threads every day on here that prove this. 

Edited April 1 by crusadertsar

[El Payaso]

I actually like in this version how the match engine basically forces me to use comprehensive highlights and take nothing granted. Even though I would like to trust my defense a bit more when being one nil up in the end, it is way better that the AI can keep you on your toes instead of seeing those games where you get 25-30 shots against zero and can just go make a cup of coffee or do your laundry while your team wins comfortably without you doing anything. 

I just had a game which I won 3-0 but had to do a heck of an amount micro managing to actually get a clean sheet that I wanted. 

On the other hand the match against Parma that I lost 1-0 was probably the best defending I have ever seen from the AI on FM. We controlled the game clearly for the second 45 minutes but were not able to create anything dangerous, no matter what I tried. 

I also often see the AI teams squeezing the space away from my midfielders and force them to play safe passes back to defense. This never happened in the older versions as the midfield was all over the place in terms of closing down and marking. 

Not saying it is perfect but in general probably the best and most sensible defending that I have seen on FM. 

If you exclude throw-ins and other set pieces issues, this ME is actually really solid and for me the best after 2013. 

[Christopher S]

6 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

True this. Can't help but notice that the forum has become more toxic then ever due that kind of "group speak". I play this game and write about it in this forum to have fun and to share this joy with other like-minded individuals, not to incessantly argue with those few angry players that keep saying that the game is broken because there is only one "meta" way to succeed. Sure there might exist some game-breaking strategies. They always did, even going back to days of Champ Manager. But this doesn't refute the fact that with some hard work other styles of football can be viable in FM. In fact there are threads every day on here that prove this. 

Honestly wouldn't hate if there was some kind of rule/guideline/prevention method against this, moderation wise. I have *many* gripes with the game, both how it functions and how it's presented, but no one is constructively served by people regurgitating variations on the concept of "Playstyle X is OP, game broken". I hope you are aware that your contributions are highly regarded and appreciated by a lot of us in here!

Somewhat related to said gripes, I do take issue with something @Rashidi said further up, and want to offer a rebuttal:

On 02/03/2024 at 16:37, Rashidi said:

The positional play feature is too strong on FM, if someone understands how the roles move, it’s easy getting optimal spacing for your players and when that happens it’s easy to disrupt the oppositions tempo.  
 

If you see players running away from dangerous players or players engaging the wrong targets that’s definitely user related. It’s so easy in the game to ensure you only have one player closing down a target while the rest shut down passing lanes.

I take issue with the statements of it being easy. Easy in FM is very much a matter of perspective. I think it's almost completely inarguable that FM fails almost completely at giving players accurate and reliable information in relation to tactics. Player role descriptions will differ anywhere from somewhat to wildly from their descriptions, and so will Team Instructions and Player Instructions. Solving the issues you mentioned is easy if you know what to do in the game to accomplish it. Figuring that part out, however, is not easy. It's very, very timeconsuming, as FM provides a limited amount of reliable feedback, in terms of specificity and consistency, on most moves you make - unless you know exactly what to look for.

Obviously, none of this is to say it can't be done, nor to say that it's something only a select few will be able to do. But I think it comes off as discouraging and unhelpful; saying "it's so easy" with no further elaboration on *how* mainly conveys a sense of talking down on the person, instead of lifting them up.
I hope you don't take this as general criticism of you and/or your work or contributions in general, as you've done more than most to enrich, encourage and teach in this scene. Just figured I'd offer my two cents in a discussion that's pretty relevant to the current forum zeitgeist.

Edited April 1 by Christopher S

[Cloud9]

21 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Somewhat related to said gripes, I do take issue with something @Rashidi said further up, and want to offer a rebuttal:

The comments on the Positional Play being overturned and making the game easy are just directed at the loud, ill-informed users on the forumn that argue that the only way to win is limited to a singular approach. 

The point is not that the game is easy and that you are therefore bad, but that many different play styles are possible and effective with a bit of know how (which people on this forumn, like Rashidi, are more than happy to help out with). 

The other issue with the "game is broken" posts, is that even if it were true... this isn't the place for it. Go post it in the bug report section after compiling sufficient data that there is an issue.

• Here's the link: https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/

There are features that imo don't work as they should. I for one struggle to get "Play Out From The Back" to actually improve my squads ability to do just that. Posting here for help on how to get something to work that you're struggling with (or that you feel the game is limited in) is a totally different approach than just saying, "unplayable! you can only gegenpress" which is what we're seeing far too much of atm. 

Edited April 1 by Cloud9

[crusadertsar]

27 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Honestly wouldn't hate if there was some kind of rule/guideline/prevention method against this, moderation wise. I have *many* gripes with the game, both how it functions and how it's presented, but no one is constructively served by people regurgitating variations on the concept of "Playstyle X is OP, game broken". I hope you are aware that your contributions are highly regarded and appreciated by a lot of us in here!

Somewhat related to said gripes, I do take issue with something @Rashidi said further up, and want to offer a rebuttal:

I take issue with the statements of it being easy. Easy in FM is very much a matter of perspective. I think it's almost completely inarguable that FM fails almost completely at giving players accurate and reliable information in relation to tactics. Player role descriptions will differ anywhere from somewhat to wildly from their descriptions, and so will Team Instructions and Player Instructions. Solving the issues you mentioned is easy if you know what to do in the game to accomplish it. Figuring that part out, however, is not easy. It's very, very timeconsuming, as FM provides a limited amount of reliable feedback, in terms of specificity and consistency, on most moves you make - unless you know exactly what to look for.

Obviously, none of this is to say it can't be done, nor to say that it's something only a select few will be able to do. But I think it comes off as discouraging and unhelpful; saying "it's so easy" with no further elaboration on *how* mainly conveys a sense of talking down on the person, instead of lifting them up.
I hope you don't take this as general criticism of you and/or your work or contributions in general, as you've done more than most to enrich, encourage and teach in this scene. Just figured I'd offer my two cents in a discussion that's pretty relevant to the current forum zeitgeist.

Thanks for the kind words mate. I think we all secretly wish that we had @Rashidi 's footballing brain. He does make it look easy and it probably is if you have the time to watch matches in full, and analyze every minute detail ect. Unfortunately, a lot of us, myself included, who have been playing this game for over a decade just don't have that kind of time anymore. I don't play/stream FM for a living, wish I did haha. And the aspects that I enjoy the most are mostly youth development and growing my club longterm over time. Sometimes tactics get in the way of that. Like recently I have been struggling with Real Sociedad for past 5 seasons with barely any trophy to show for it (except one Spanish Cup). Just can't break the Barca Real Madrid deadlock on the league. Despite trying to include all those new Positional Play bells and whistles in my tactics. And I refuse to use those overpowered Geggenpress tactics. Maybe one day I'll finally give up and switch to one of those 

Edited April 1 by crusadertsar

[Christopher S]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

And I refuse to use those overpowered Geggenpress tactics.

I accidentally ended up using a system that apparently ticks most of the boxes for "meta gegenpressing tactic". I looked at my players, knew my teams level compared to the rest, noted down the key tenets of how I want to play based on players + my personal footballing philosophy. That resulted in a 4-2-3-1 DM, with Attacking, Shorter Passing, Higher Tempo, High Pressing and Pass Into Space. The problem I've come across is that I've not been able to get my players to do what I deem "correct" in a give situation without most of those settings. And at some point, it becomes a matter of "How much time can I defend spending on finding an alternative way of getting them to do do what I want them to?". No Segundo Volante, no Advanced Forward AND I use an AP-sup as the 10, so I'm halfway excused. Yes, it feels kinda bad playing a meta system. But on the other hand, it closely replicates how I think football should be played, and if I can't achieve that without spending unreasonable amounts of time (by my definition), why shouldn't I use the system? Plus, the results are phenomenal. Won the League + Cup in Norway 3 times with Vålerenga, plus a UCL semifinal AND winning the UEL (Jan 2023 - Jan 2028). Took over Real Betis in 2028 in January, sitting in 17th place on track to get relegated. Ended up in 5th that same year. Won the league the following two years, and am about to win a third (Real are pushing me REALLY hard though). Can confirm that Real + Barca are hard as nails, though; we're 23 games into the season in 31/32, and all three of us are undefeated still. Complete madness.

Somewhat related;

I honestly think the mentality settings do a lot of heavy lifting this year. From my experience, I notice a significantly bigger difference between Positive > Attacking than I do between Balanced > Positive, for example. I honestly wonder if the various "under the hood" sliders are just set too conservatively across the board. The type of movement, passing and decision making I used to see consistently on Positive in FM22 (my previous version, I skipped 23), I now almost exclusively see on Attacking. It's probaby a lot more complex than that, but effects of Mentality and specifically "Pass Into Space" seem to be exaggerated in the ME to me.

Edited April 1 by Christopher S

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, Christopher S said:

honestly think the mentality settings do a lot of heavy lifting this year. From my experience, I notice a significantly bigger difference between Positive > Attacking than I do between Balanced > Positive, for example. I honestly wonder if the various "under the hood" sliders are just set too conservatively across the board. The type of movement, passing and decision making I used to see consistently on Positive in FM22 (my previous version, I skipped 23), I now almost exclusively see on Attacking. It's probaby a lot more complex than that, but effects of Mentality and specifically "Pass Into Space" seem to be exaggerated in the ME to me.

Mentality is important because as a risk modifier it affects several things in the game. Pass into space affects the whole team and encourages riskier use of the ball.

When one understands this they can apply it to tactics. The challenge is not being encumbered by what other people say. I had someone come on my stream insisting that the only reason I won was because I switched to attacking mentality. The next season I played the entire season on cautious to prove a point.

Whenever I want to be very defensive and seek to use the 442 in a low block playing a style which aims to reduce passing options between the lines I also opt for more disciplined play and if I want to park the bus and make sure I don’t hand the ball to the AI each time, I time my use of pass into space. Without revealing too much of what happened from my Everton series, the low block 442 produced some fantastic results away from home.

Using the same low block I had another game at home against a top 4 side and opted for the same settings with one key difference - I played on attacking mentality with a low block. When you do this it shifts the DL, LOE, adjusts the width, passing and tempo slightly higher. And with the team aiming to be a bit more risky with the ball, we beat a top 4 side by reducing their space. I do tend to score a fair few goals from setpieces, these normally happen after an in-game tweak.

A lot of what I do is recognising how the AI is trying to play and then slightly tweaking my formation to make it harder for them. It takes practice and while it appears easy for me, it only works because I have a deep understanding of how the roles move and what players are capable of with their attributes. It takes time, but from feedback I get from other players it’s something that is richly rewarding once the effort to learn reaps dividends.

[aditya]

The problem with FM defence is that its always 1 vs 1, when in reality, as an example with gengenpress you could press 2-4 players in one player, that doesnt occur too often in FM. Same goes with transition or attacking, it seems like only one player is going after the ball (selected by the ME) when sometimes two players going for the ball could result in better fluidity when possession is won or lost on the duel.