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[FM24] Netherlands (D7)


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first and foremost a shoutout to the original creators of this database:See the last year thread for the FM23 database:

 

The biggest change this year is a 'revamp' from the KNVB regarding the structure of the Eerste Klasse and Tweede Klasse.
The Relegation / Promotion playoff between the Derde Divisie and Eerste Klasse should be adjusted to the new changes.
The Relegation / Promotion playoff between the Eerste Klasse and Tweede Klasse is working, but not in the way the KNVB has it in mind. I spent a lot of time trying to setup RP playoff between both klasses the way the KNVB has it planned, but due to the uneven amount of teams that would be active in a RP playoff (And me still trying to figure out how the seeding system works) it became quite task to tackle. further (minor) changes are but not limited to:

  • Deleted some obsolete database changes;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding them to their corresponding Districtbeker region;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding them to the Dutch Lower Leagues;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding missing 'stadiums' - In this case some amateur clubs were missing their 'sportparken'; 
  • Changed fixture rules for a variety of leagues;
  • Changed settings for a variety leagues (playoff for promotion / relegation etc) to only have Extra time and penalties if a match is undecided.  

Database is verified and in-game I cannot find any flaws so far, making me confident enough that is is not breaking the game. 

There is still some work left to do:

  • Making sure that amateur teams affiliated to professional teams and B / jong teams that are active in the regular pyramid can't promote out of the Jack's League; 
  • tweaking the Jack's League (Tweede Divisie) to be Semi-Pro;
  • Tweaking the Eerste Klasse Relegation / Promotion playoffs;
  • Addition of U21 & U18 league;
  • Addition of U21 & U18 Cup;
  • Making sure SV De Meteoor has a Sportpark assigned to it (The current real-life on does not exist in the database)

@Slabbekoorn provided me with a database file that included alot of other changes not mentioned above that I'd want to take a look at. Thank you for that! 

 

Nederland (D7).fmf

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To give an insight in the issue that I'm encountering with the Eerste Klasse <-> Tweede Klasse PR playoff:
The RP Playoffs between the Eerste Klasse and Tweede Klasse is based on what I could figure out on geographical districts: 

Noord - 18 teams
Oost - 15 teams
Zuid I -  18 teams
Zuid II - 9 teams 
West I - 18 teams
West II - 12 teams

none of those RP playoffs have an even number of teams that are easy turn into a singe Elimination tournament.
Lets take Zuid II for example, it has 9 teams:

 Nederlandse Eerste klasse F
Nederlandse Tweede klasse Zondag E
Nederlandse Tweede klasse Zondag F

The KNVB regulation for Zuid II (promotie-degradatie-regeling-mannen-senioren-zuid2-2023-2024 (knvb.nl)) states that:

"De nummers 9 t/m 11 zijn herkanser en spelen samen met de periodekampioenen van de 2e klassen E en F voor twee plaatsen in de 1e klasse volgens een nog vast te stellen schema voor twee plaatsen in de 1e klasse."

So 9 teams will play in a (I'd assume a singe Elimination tournament) for 2 final games. So far I did not manage to figure out a way to make a working singe Elimination tournament based on an odd number of teams.
Due do the odd number of Teams I have to give an X amount of Teams a bye for the first round and give them a spot in the second round. Seeding can help with this, but so far I yet have to find a way to make it work! 

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Amazing to see this file back for FM once again. Amazing job @Tomijssel!

I'll do some testing this week!

So pretty brain-breakers that KNVB included in their regulations. Big kudos for trying to implement all these odd rules.

Let's pray SI and KNVB can join forces and bring this as part of the official database in the future.

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Some aesthetic file improvements or new features from my side just at a first glance:

(1)
Dutch Tweede Klasse - remove the word ‘Dutch’ so it’s consistent with the others? Could also be because of my name fix files, so not sure but nice to double check. Since it's Eerste Klasse and Derde Klasse and I had to change this.

(2)
If you want to add more realism, competition colors can also be added. I got the official RGB codes here, also for licensed leagues:

Eredivisie (ERE)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 32 G 24 B 96
Kleur decoratie: R 230 G 29 B 73

Keuken Kampioen Divisie (KKD)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 216 G 8 B 32
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Betnation Divisie (BND)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 35 G 51 B 106
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 92 B  0

KNVB Beker en Districtsbekers (BEK, DBE)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 4 G 47 B 54
Kleur decoratie: R 0 G 123 B 39

Johan Cruyff Schaal (JCS)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 255 G 202 B 8
Kleur decoratie: R 35 G 32 B 119

Unofficial colors (these are not defined by KNVB, but it makes it look a bit nicer than just black - you can skip these if you want to)

Derde Divisie (DER)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 4 G 157 B 75
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Vierde Divisie (VIE)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 0 G 96 B 255
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Eerste Klasse (EK), Reservecompetities (RES), O19 competities (O19)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 255 G 156 B 0
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Tweede Klasse (TWK)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 6 G 183 B 173
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Derde Klasse (DEK)
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 156 G 88 B 202
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

Lagere Divisies
Voorgrond: R 255 G 255 B 255
Achtergrond: R 127 G 127 B 127
Kleur decoratie: R 255 G 255 B 255

I also have a .fmf file for implementing all these colors but the colors are of course not mapped on created leagues or the top level league. Let me know if this would be helpful.

(3)
Advanced Rules > Netherlands > List (Geavanceerde Regels > Nederland > Lijst) maybe reorganize so that they are in the correct order? That also helps with some overviews in game (e.g. Eerste Klasse Zondag & Zaterdag are mixed up in order)

 

(4)

Clubs such as Ajax Amateurs or SC Feyenoord are not using the kits of their respective Pro-level club.

List of clubs with same kit and prevent from promotion + prevent playing in the same league as their Pro-level club:

  • Ajax Amateurs
  • PSV/av
  • SC Feyenoord
  • SC N.E.C.
  • FC Eindhoven amateurs
  • ADO Den Haag amateurs (extinct)
  • FC Dordrecht amateurs
  • RV & AV Sparta

(5)

Vierde Divisie is showing up here while it should be hidden and it should only show 4 leagues: Zaterdag & Zondag A&B

(happens when you're on a league page and hit search up top)

image.thumb.png.52da73c7d674d200e417cfcd2d707dda.png

(6)

It looks like some Tweede Klasse leagues have a higher reputation than the districtsbeker, which is why they show up over here compared to the other clubs. For the Derde Divisie and up that would make sense, but not for the Tweede Klasse. I remember this was one of the things introduced as a workaround some time back, maybe good to double check.

Schermafbeelding2023-11-18om22_58_26.thumb.png.7917cbf14b8b0789b914e250c9b5bc31.png

--

That's it so far.

Scherm­afbeelding 2023-11-18 om 18.28.26.png

image.png

Edited by wfm18
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Question: I have installedboth files, but I (still) get Hoofdklasse A and Hoofdklasse B instead of Vierde Divisie. C and D Are Vierde Divisie C and Vierde Divisie D. Anything I can do about this? I already changed it in the editor, but it still shows up this way. Seems like the game gets the name from the original database and not from the edited file. 

image.png.cf198bf24a0cc0c2b0c364bd68bb5055.png

 

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I holidayd a season through this, but my u19s for eredivisie teams are not playing any games. It might be because there shouldn't be an u19 because there should only be u18?

image.png.8df9de7fe27957b29ea26c8902122d83.png

This is the top league of the u19s and it only has eerste divisie teams (and lower).

image.png.5b7ef69cb78bd2c14e2d4a79a8c366e1.png

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For seedings, you can make whichever teams are at the top your "teams" list for that stage get the bye (if you want to sort them by league stats, there are ways to do that too). Under stage/general make sure "reverse teams" is active and unchecked (same with "randomize teams"). Under "team list changes" further below, add an entry covering all the teams (so starting at 0 and ending at 8 if there are 9 teams) and make sure "reverse teams" is checked here

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On 25/11/2023 at 19:28, wfm18 said:

I've done some testing again today and experienced the same issue as reported above by @rschprs for the U19 teams.

@ginomartens I think your issue with the names of the Vierde Divisie are part of the namefix file you are using.

That was indeed causing the issue, already forgot I had a name fix somewhere. Removed the name fixes for the lower league and now shows up fine.

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Made a small file fixing the affiliated clubs for Pro clubs relative to their amateur club (Ajax - Ajax amateurs), using the same kit and making sure they cannot play in the same division.

I know we could go much more in depth as clubs often have multiple amateur-partners that are definitely not registered in FM. Just as an example, which is just a small part of the full list: https://www.ajax.nl/artikelen/ajax-bekrachtigt-samenwerking-met-tien-nieuwe-partnerclubs/

wfm18 sortitoutsi.net FM24 Affiliated clubs (Netherlands).fmf

Edited by wfm18
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New file, I've striked through all of my feedback that I could implement with this.

Other additions:

  • I now also see why I had these competition issues with the Eerste Klasse leagues. They are not separated by Zaterdag/Zondag anymore, so they are now called Eerste Klasse A-J. I've added these changes but it's wise to check with you namefix file as that could be different completely.
  • I've also added in colors and the Affiliated clubs file above and tried to work out the semi-pro status for Betnation Divisie by adding a rule to oth Betnation as KKD for what should happen with clubs when they are relegated in terms of their professional-status. I've set this to two years. No clue if that worked out well, we have to test.
  • Affiliated amateur clubs not able to promote out of Betnation Divisie

I have no understanding of how to bring the U21/U18 teams in, which I think is the biggest issue with this file still, some research below:

I think the struggle is that most Pro clubs are still in their U18 leagues which are disabled and the game creates 40+ groups for all U19 teams of the other teams. But it's random to me as ADO or MVV are also assigned to these groups, but still their U19 make it into that first group.

image.thumb.png.34add23482ef01f77eb8a5d7393b3b24.png

image.thumb.png.dbedda1ccae840483a5f1808efcee7df.png

image.thumb.png.f6ca881397f2bb6b7481fb5189e0a21c.png

image.thumb.png.72bf73801a17643aa66c5ef1cd22f727.png

Nederland (D7) edited.fmf

Edited by wfm18
File update with small changes
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So with a couple of small changes this morning I also got the U21/U19 league working; which is just generated by FM just like the others. I think this file is pretty playable, but @Tomijssel you could still create the leagues as you suggested in your first post.

Changes in this file:

  • Added 'sportpark' for SV De Meteoor
  • Added Eredivisie and Eerste Divisie teams to U19/Tweede elftal FM generated competitions
  • Added semi-pro statuses to multiple clubs

So that leaves the initial to-do list to this:

On 18/11/2023 at 15:34, Tomijssel said:

There is still some work left to do:

  • Making sure that amateur teams affiliated to professional teams and B / jong teams that are active in the regular pyramid can't promote out of the Jack's League; 
  • Tweaking the Jack's League (Tweede Divisie) to be Semi-Pro; (check needed)
  • Tweaking the Eerste Klasse Relegation / Promotion playoffs;
  • Addition of U21 & U18 league;
  • Addition of U21 & U18 Cup;
  • Making sure SV De Meteoor has a Sportpark assigned to it (The current real-life on does not exist in the database)

One small remark is that I removed one of the direct promotion/relegation spots between the BND and KKD as I think this is more realistic.

Nederland (D7) edited.fmf

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Is it possible for you to add the "Beloften teams"? The Netherlands has a 2nd promotion tree into the "Tweede Divisie" Which is the U21 and then U23 A and B.

This is where all the "Jong #Clubname" come from in the Netherlands. They can promote into the Tweede Divisie.

I have attached the Infographic from the KNVB: https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/sites/bestand/knvb/24728/0659-infographic-onder2123-competitie-01

I tried to do it but I don't understand the pre-game editor at all, I am happy to help you if that works and spend some time on it.

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Minor issue on the database. Managing in the Betnation Divisie, it doesn't seem to show the KNVB Beker on the Competitions involved in tab. It shows the date it starts on too, even though i've passed that date (see in photo). However, by 31st August, this resolves itself as the draw for the Second Preliminary Round is made. My Betnation team joins at this stage and the Competition tab includes the cup now. This is minor, but from my experience of managing in different countries, it always lists the competitions my team is in that season even if it hasn't reached the stage my side comes into it.

MyPicture1.jpeg

MyPicture2.jpeg

MyPicture3.jpeg

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I have a problem. I started my save and noticed the transfer window didn't open until 1 January 2024 which is 175 days later... Why are the transfer windows not open in the beginning? So I see the rules in the competition, it's open from 1 July 2023 to 3 July 2023... (Sorry my bad English)

Thanks for helping🙏

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4 hours ago, Andhika Binar said:

I have a problem. I started my save and noticed the transfer window didn't open until 1 January 2024 which is 175 days later... Why are the transfer windows not open in the beginning? So I see the rules in the competition, it's open from 1 July 2023 to 3 July 2023... (Sorry my bad English)

Thanks for helping🙏

What division is this occurring? I'm managing in the Betnation Divisie and was able to sign players at the start of my save 

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I wanted to test this one as well and I found the same problem as @Andhika Binar.
I picked a random team and I found that the rules say there's only a Tweede klasse restricted transfer market till august 31st, and an open one from july 1st - july 3rd. Though it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference, since almost every player that would be interested (from the tweede klasse or eerste klasse), is basically a free agent at amateur level. After august 31st, you can only sign players starting january 1st.

image.png.932a51152536bf2b0cae08171210bf72.png

EDIT: I also tested with a third divsion club, where the same rules seem to apply. I tried to sign players from the second division because those are mostly under paid contracts and I am able to sign them instantaneously as well.
So, is the (Dutch) translation wrong and can we sign players from the Netherlands, no matter the level, and are these clubs only excluded from the international transfer market? That would sort of make sense.

Edited by rayz0rcakes
further investigation
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On 13/12/2023 at 11:26, rayz0rcakes said:

I wanted to test this one as well and I found the same problem as @Andhika Binar.
I picked a random team and I found that the rules say there's only a Tweede klasse restricted transfer market till august 31st, and an open one from july 1st - july 3rd. Though it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference, since almost every player that would be interested (from the tweede klasse or eerste klasse), is basically a free agent at amateur level. After august 31st, you can only sign players starting january 1st.

image.png.932a51152536bf2b0cae08171210bf72.png

EDIT: I also tested with a third divsion club, where the same rules seem to apply. I tried to sign players from the second division because those are mostly under paid contracts and I am able to sign them instantaneously as well.
So, is the (Dutch) translation wrong and can we sign players from the Netherlands, no matter the level, and are these clubs only excluded from the international transfer market? That would sort of make sense.

Cool findings, what happens in season 2 or 3? Are you completely unable to make transfers or only ones within the Netherlands?

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1 hour ago, wfm18 said:

Cool findings, what happens in season 2 or 3? Are you completely unable to make transfers or only ones within the Netherlands?

I've figured it out!


The period between 9-6 till 31-8/1-9 is part of the national transfer period. So whether players play Eredivisie or Tweede klasse, within that time frame, they can move freely from club to club, no matter the tier, since they're all the same. The one that lasts 2 days is the international transfer window. The real problem lies with the semi-pro till pro divisions; they also have that same international transfer window. For those clubs, it is actually problematic, since they have the financial support and reputation to sign foreign players (and it's obviously not realistic). All this seems to be persistent from year to year.

Checking some other country's rules and an unmodded save, it's clear that this needs fixing and happens ONLY in The Netherlands. I've taken a look in the editor file as well to see if I could fix it, but I'm not an experienced editor. And from what I can tell, the in-game rules don't seem to align with the rules the editor is feeding me. So yeah, maybe someone else can take a look at this!

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On 15/12/2023 at 10:56, rayz0rcakes said:

I've figured it out!


The period between 9-6 till 31-8/1-9 is part of the national transfer period. So whether players play Eredivisie or Tweede klasse, within that time frame, they can move freely from club to club, no matter the tier, since they're all the same. The one that lasts 2 days is the international transfer window. The real problem lies with the semi-pro till pro divisions; they also have that same international transfer window. For those clubs, it is actually problematic, since they have the financial support and reputation to sign foreign players (and it's obviously not realistic). All this seems to be persistent from year to year.

Checking some other country's rules and an unmodded save, it's clear that this needs fixing and happens ONLY in The Netherlands. I've taken a look in the editor file as well to see if I could fix it, but I'm not an experienced editor. And from what I can tell, the in-game rules don't seem to align with the rules the editor is feeding me. So yeah, maybe someone else can take a look at this!

Can you research for each league what the correct start and end date would be? I’m willing to give it a try as well, @Tomijssel probably knows for sure.

Happy holidays!

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17 hours ago, wfm18 said:

Can you research for each league what the correct start and end date would be? I’m willing to give it a try as well, @Tomijssel probably knows for sure.

Happy holidays!

After reading your post I have, and it's kind of complicated (in terms of application) and I don't recommend using the real life rules. 

First off; the pro leagues have accurate dates in the original database. Those shouldn't be tampered with.

Here's the rules for the semi pro and amateur leagues, so starting from the third tier down:

Summer window:

  • Starting the second weekend of March, up until and including June 15th, players and clubs can apply for transfer registration. These will only be registered on July 1st.
  • These rules count for both international transfers, contract-to-contract situations and free agents.

Winter window:

  • This one starts on January 2nd and lasts until January 31st, 23:59.
  • Only players who are under contract or those who move to or from international clubs are qualified to transfer.

Then, there's the dispensation rules. Those state that from June 16 up until March and including March 1st, players can apply for dispensation, in case of home and job relocation for example.

I feel like this wouldn't work in-engine. To start off, talks with players year round are hardcoded into the game (I believe). So dispensation rules are basically non-existent. Plus, there are no rules exclusive to free agents. Also, the summer transfer window would realistically last one day (July 1st) and I don't think that the AI would use a transfer window like this. Plus, even if it would work, this could make one day take minutes to process which I don't think would be very beneficial to the experience.

So with the AI and player in mind I would suggest the following for the Tweede Divisie and under:

Summer window

International and national, June 15th (around 2 weeks before contracts end) - July 1st 23:59

Winter window

International and national, January 2nd - January 31st, 23:59

If anyone else thinks they have a better solution, feel free to propose corrections.

Hope this helps!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 17/01/2024 at 10:08, Dirkjan said:

Can teams change from amateur to semi-professional and professional over time? (if I bring my local team to KKD or ERE?)

Yes, but it’s a bit weird as KKD clubs become amateur in a league of semi-pro clubs (BND). No clue how to iron that out.

On 26/01/2024 at 14:06, PlayRoom said:

Hello guys, wish you all a great 2024.

Is this file playable? I would love to try it out.

Yes, still playable but needs an update for the winter patch obviously.

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  • 1 month later...

Something about missing a team in one of the lower league.  Yeah I don't know how to fix it either :(

13 hours ago, wfm18 said:

So... anyone knows how to make this file work for the winter patch? I got errors right away and this is not my field of expertise. @Tomijssel or @rayz0rcakes maybe? I know @rayz0rcakes made some more updates to the file after the latest file in the thread above.

 

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