Set Piece Coaching: really?…

[phd_angel]

Is set piece coaching a real thing?… The announcement says “elite clubs now have it to get that extra 1%”.

I think it makes sense in England where set pieces is a big thing, but really…

What’s next?… I’d rather see psychology coaching, a motivational speaker, or even a New Age guru…

Edited September 29, 2023 by phd_angel

[rristola]

Could this be something like mixture of scouting the opponent and analyzing our own game in set piece situations?

I have seen a clip on TV, where an analyst told that he had made instructions for a team to win the ball more in throw-ins... And he told that it had helped.

It seems to me that, of course, teams know how to play set pieces, but this way they could get more info on what set piece tactic to play and when.

 

On the other hand, is that whole set pieces setup already complete?

Like, why are there only a few "slots" where I can put my players - why can't I put them where ever I want? Can I use whatever setup also "mirrored" or in any chosen tactic?

Yeah, a few years back I searched for throw-in set piece tactics from Steam - there were NONE. I would like to see new "tools" in set pieces setup.

[kingjericho]

Set pieces needed a revamp so this is a welcomed change.

What I believe was unnecessary were set piece coaches' traits. What info can you realistically scout from real set piece coaches? You'll get these from PL staff and not much more.

[rristola]

12 hours ago, kingjericho said:

What info can you realistically scout from real set piece coaches?

First, this isn't anything that I have read from somewhere (these new infos), so this is purely guessing.

 

Could it happen like this... We have an attacking corner. Our scouting says that our tall players (for headers) vs. theirs are as good (=attributes), so it should be OK to use outside 6 yard box.

Set pieces coach could say NO, because recently they have won every corner played that way, We should do something else, like short corners.

 

But, this is still uncertain for me, are these new staff members coaches or coach-analysts?

If you see a full description on that job, give here a link.

[Jack Joyce]

Set piece coaching is absolutely a 'real thing' and a vital component of most team's backroom staff.  Every team works on set pieces in training!

The specific 'set piece coach' job title has become increasingly popular in recent years, however even before that it was (and still is) very common for set piece duties to be assigned to an assistant coach or goalkeeping coach in cases where the specific job title does not exist. Even if a team does not have a specific 'set piece coach' job, it's very likely that some other coach is doing the job as a dual-responsibility.

Set pieces contribute to over 30% of goals in football, so it's a vital aspect of the game that teams are always making sure to pay attention to, and certainly not just at Premier League level either - Italy won the Euros in part thanks to Gianni Vio, but at club level many sides in Denmark, Italy, England, Germany, Spain etc. all have dedicated set piece coaches, including some teams as far down as the conference level in the English pyramid.

[autohoratio]

4 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

Set piece coaching is absolutely a 'real thing' and a vital component of most team's backroom staff.  Every team works on set pieces in training!

The specific 'set piece coach' job title has become increasingly popular in recent years, however even before that it was (and still is) very common for set piece duties to be assigned to an assistant coach or goalkeeping coach in cases where the specific job title does not exist. Even if a team does not have a specific 'set piece coach' job, it's very likely that some other coach is doing the job as a dual-responsibility.

Set pieces contribute to over 30% of goals in football, so it's a vital aspect of the game that teams are always making sure to pay attention to, and certainly not just at Premier League level either - Italy won the Euros in part thanks to Gianni Vio, but at club level many sides in Denmark, Italy, England, Germany, Spain etc. all have dedicated set piece coaches, including some teams as far down as the conference level in the English pyramid.

I'd just like to add a couple of bits of info to this - some (many?) set piece coaches aren't exclusively employed by their clubs, but are brought in on consultancy bases and can work for multiple clubs at once (e.g. Andy Parslow "Currently working as a consultant to clubs across the Football League and beyond"). and according to the Athletic, they might not even work directly with the players ("Reid does not work directly with their players. Once a week, he joins a meeting with the coaching team by video call to share his expertise and hopes for success at the weekend."), or they'll only work on them for 20 minutes a week on the training pitch.

[Iggy Hassan]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23702385.arsenals-former-set-piece-head-joins-southampton-fc-coach/

[kingjericho]

On 02/10/2023 at 10:31, Jack Joyce said:

Set piece coaching is absolutely a 'real thing' and a vital component of most team's backroom staff.  Every team works on set pieces in training!

The specific 'set piece coach' job title has become increasingly popular in recent years, however even before that it was (and still is) very common for set piece duties to be assigned to an assistant coach or goalkeeping coach in cases where the specific job title does not exist. Even if a team does not have a specific 'set piece coach' job, it's very likely that some other coach is doing the job as a dual-responsibility.

Set pieces contribute to over 30% of goals in football, so it's a vital aspect of the game that teams are always making sure to pay attention to, and certainly not just at Premier League level either - Italy won the Euros in part thanks to Gianni Vio, but at club level many sides in Denmark, Italy, England, Germany, Spain etc. all have dedicated set piece coaches, including some teams as far down as the conference level in the English pyramid.

Thanks for your input. My only doubt about this new role are the coach's traits. Does a coach really prefer "attack near post" or "prefer inswinging corners"? I would guess this has more to do with the type of players the squad has rather than a personal preference. Plus, these traits will be very difficult to scout and translate into the game.

[DarJ]

49 minutes ago, kingjericho said:

Thanks for your input. My only doubt about this new role are the coach's traits. Does a coach really prefer "attack near post" or "prefer inswinging corners"? I would guess this has more to do with the type of players the squad has rather than a personal preference. Plus, these traits will be very difficult to scout and translate into the game.

I can understand that criticism but I think it’s more for people that don’t want to do it themselves they can just sign someone that prefers they way they want it and never think about it again 

[Jack Joyce]

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

Thanks for your input. My only doubt about this new role are the coach's traits. Does a coach really prefer "attack near post" or "prefer inswinging corners"? I would guess this has more to do with the type of players the squad has rather than a personal preference. Plus, these traits will be very difficult to scout and translate into the game.

The traits are just preferences, so they should be adapting to the strengths of the squad, and the weaknesses of the opposition. 

I do agree that it could be quite hard to research, but I do also think that preferences do exist in this realm of tactics e.g. Arsenal's coach Jover really loves inswinging deliveries, last season every corner they did was inswinging. 

It also makes hiring a set piece coach more interesting, because now you have to make sure you're hiring someone that has the preferences you want from your set pieces. But i'm sure over time we'll improve this more and more.

[Gangor]

On 02/10/2023 at 10:31, Jack Joyce said:

it was (and still is) very common for set piece duties to be assigned to an assistant coach or goalkeeping coach

Will it be possible to assign a goalkeeping coach to train set pieces?

[dankrzyz]

On 29/09/2023 at 12:50, phd_angel said:

Is set piece coaching a real thing?…

Yes, it's a real thing.

• ‘Believe in the process’ – the set-piece specialists transforming football - The Athletic
• The rise of set piece coaches in football | Soccer | The Guardian
• Why set-piece coaches are sweeping the Premier League, from Tottenham's Gianni Vio to Arsenal's Nicolas Jover (inews.co.uk)
• Throw-ins, ballstriking, neuroscience: How coaching evolves - ESPN

[Dotsworthy]

On 03/10/2023 at 11:49, kingjericho said:

Thanks for your input. My only doubt about this new role are the coach's traits. Does a coach really prefer "attack near post" or "prefer inswinging corners"? I would guess this has more to do with the type of players the squad has rather than a personal preference. Plus, these traits will be very difficult to scout and translate into the game.

As an example watching Newcastle this season, Howe definitely has a couple of favourites he likes, including playing a low ball to the edge of the area for a player to ghost in.

I'm interested to know how short corners and free kicks will work. Teams in real life love using runners to deliver a ball into the box rather than directly from the kick, I wonder if we'll get more of this variety in FM24.