80s Style European Competitions (FM23)

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

After much deliberation I finally decided to get hold of FM23. The first thing I set about doing was to repeat my 80s style European Competitions from FM22. Here is last year's link with a thorough description of how things came about https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/563004-80s-style-european-competitions/. 

So here it is, 1970s and 1980s knockout European football. No group games, just straight on in with the 2 legged cup matches, and the crucial away goal is king of course! So I've removed all the modern day competitions and replaced them with the following: 

European Cup - 55 teams (Champions of each country plus the winner of the European Cup to defend their crown). Straight knockout with a Qualifying Round, First Round, Second Round, Quarter Final, Semi Final, and Final. 

European Cup Winners' Cup - 54 teams (Domestic FA Cup winner of each country). Straight knockout with a Qualifying Round, First Round, Second Round, Quarter Final, Semi Final, and Final.

UEFA Cup - 120 teams (Best next placed teams in leagues of each nation, ranging from 2 places to 4 places depending on nation's coefficient). Straight knockout with a Qualifying Round, First Round, Second Round, Third Round, Quarter Final, Semi Final, and a 2 legged Final.

European Super Cup - This replicates how it used to be, with the winner of the EC playing the winner of the ECWC.

Update 11th Feb 2023:- I've added Awards to the competitions except the Super Cup.

Known Issues: 

• I've embraced and accepted the hard coded rule that in the event of a domestic league and cup double, the Cup Winners Cup spot goes to the next place in the league rather than the runner up of the cup. I've got used to this now! 
• I cannot get the foreign player limit in squad selection rules to work. This would appear to be a bug and I am going to report it as such.   FIXED
• As I've lived in the editor for the last 2 weeks I really don't know if you'll hear any Champions League music being played! (Is that an issue??)
• I don't know if the dynamic nation movements actually works. I think it does as in some years a nation that had 3 UEFA spots would sometimes have 4 or vice versa. But it's quite sporadic so not entirely sure if it works as intended.
• There are a few nations that will have a European Playoff. This was mainly designed for qualification for the Europa League, and Conference League. I found it very complicated trying to remove these from nations. I have decided to keep them. Most provide a little entertainment, although Romania becomes a pointless playoff, and Belgium is just bizarre as to what team qualifies....  Load it and see!
• The Club World Championship works in the game, but I have haven't got my head round how teams are picked. To be fair, I have paid no attention to it. The winners of the European Cup are instructed to qualify for it. I have started work on a Club World Cup which will make my understanding alot easier.
• The 3rd Round of the UEFA Cup plays during the 2022 World Cup. It's FIFA's fault. The calendar is bunged so I just left it be. It'll only clash that year. 
• I have allowed Russia and Belarus to take part. This is not me condoning the war in Ukraine. I just prefer to see all playable nations being allowed to take part.
• Finally if you want the Dutch Cup to work you must also use the Dutch file I have attached. 

So that's it, enjoy it the way proper European football used to be! 

 

Dutch file for 'Appy's 80s style European Comps.fmf

 

'Appy 'Ammer's 80s style European Competitions (FM23).fmf

Edited February 12, 2023 by \'Appy \'Ammer
Added an awards update

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

I have fixed the error where the incorrect squad selection in fixtures rules was not working. There was no bug and it was all down to me . I have updated the file at the top of the page.

[Wolf_pd]

Belgium league system is indeed a bit bizarre. They are a glutton for their own punishment I guess.

Good to see you back in the next FM iteration btw

[LazgoNNO2000]

1 hour ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

I have fixed the error where the incorrect squad selection in fixtures rules was not working. There was no bug and it was all down to me . I have updated the file at the top of the page.

hey dude can you do 90s Style European Competitons and 00s Style European Competitons

and can you do 16 teams club world cup and 40 teams world cup

[Rob 396]

Excellent work mate

[LazgoNNO2000]

54 minutes ago, Rob 396 said:

Excellent work mate

we need someone else to make 90s and 00s european competitons style

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

The world is your oyster @LazgoNNO2000. Fire up that editor and get making those competitions! I'm happy in the world of the eighties!!!

[LazgoNNO2000]

1 hour ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

The world is your oyster @LazgoNNO2000. Fire up that editor and get making those competitions! I'm happy in the world of the eighties!!!

so you will stay in eighties okay

maybe this will take long time that to think

[Rob 396]

Wondered if you can explore a way of still having a UEFA Youth League at all?

It's cool if not though, I can imagine that's probably a headache

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

7 hours ago, Rob 396 said:

Wondered if you can explore a way of still having a UEFA Youth League at all?

I just looked at that and my head is aching at the thought of setting that up! I shall hide behind the fact that the UEFA Youth League was not around in the 1980s 

[valve]

To be fair I expected more variety among winning nations, especially in the CWC. But in like 50 years only one minnow (Bohemians) reached the final.

In the days of yore, there used to be big ties as early as the first round - does FM prevent that by some sort of seeding?

[Rob 396]

Just noticed my game seems to be pulling through two Spanish teams to the European Cup

I'll just double check it's not a parallel data file causing me issues first...

* In fact your own screenshot has 2x Spanish teams in a final at one point hah

Edited January 22, 2023 by Rob 396

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Is that in the European cup? There will be 2 teams from 1 nation. So winners of the EC the previous year are invited back to defend their crown, and then the winners of the same country's league. In the scenario where the European champions also win their domestic league then the next place in the league takes the spot in the EC. Thus 2 teams from 1 nation each season. It is entirely possible, as in your example @Rob 396, that a final could contain 2 teams from the same nation. 

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

6 hours ago, valve said:

To be fair I expected more variety among winning nations, especially in the CWC. But in like 50 years only one minnow (Bohemians) reached the final.

In the days of yore, there used to be big ties as early as the first round - does FM prevent that by some sort of seeding?

I've no seeding in the draws other than byes for the top nations into the first round. 

Edit: I've just checked the file and a long term holiday save up to 2090. There is the odd top seed clash (nations 1 to 8). In the 22/23 of my EC test save, AC Milan played Bayern Munich in the first round. I agree alot of the winners are traditionally big teams. Maybe this has alot to do with the finances of today compared to back in the 80s when it was more of a level playing field?

It is still going to be very difficult for a minnow to lift one of these trophies unless there has been continual success with financial reward to build better squads. If Bohemians, for example, were to make it through to the first round of the European competitions then they will receive financial rewards up to €50 million depending on the competition. This money, can allow the club the opportunity to dominate their league. So regular first round appearances will allow the club to grow continentally, and gradually get further into the competitions each year. However drop out at the qualifying round, or worse still, don't qualify will make things harder for the minnows to make it to the super big time.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by \'Appy \'Ammer

[Rob 396]

2 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Is that in the European cup? There will be 2 teams from 1 nation. So winners of the EC the previous year are invited back to defend their crown, and then the winners of the same country's league. In the scenario where the European champions also win their domestic league then the next place in the league takes the spot in the EC. Thus 2 teams from 1 nation each season. It is entirely possible, as in your example @Rob 396, that a final could contain 2 teams from the same nation. 

Aaah, winners are invited back in this one, fair play mate!

I forgot that was even a thing for a minute 

I might amend it so they aren't, and just make it so that Vaduz always enter for the Lietchenstein entrant, for fun Vaduz challenges 

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

The European Cup always had this rule. Here is an example from 1978/79, Nottingham Forest played Liverpool. Liverpool were reigning European champions, and Forest English champions. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by \'Appy \'Ammer

[Rob 396]

13 minutes ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

The European Cup always had this rule. Here is an example from 1978/79, Nottingham Forest played Liverpool. Liverpool were reigning European champions, and Forest English champions. 

Aye I know it's been there, I'm just an absent minded sod and forgot lol

It's just a thing I don't like, so I think I will amend the version I downloaded to get rid

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

I have added awards to the competitions (except the super cup). A new download link has been added.

[Jorgen]

On 22/01/2023 at 11:22, valve said:

To be fair I expected more variety among winning nations, especially in the CWC. But in like 50 years only one minnow (Bohemians) reached the final.

In the days of yore, there used to be big ties as early as the first round - does FM prevent that by some sort of seeding?

That is a FM thing. Only the big 20 European teams and teams from playable leagues can win EC1 and EC2. For all other teams in unplayable leagues goes that they can only win as long they have a manager. As soon as he retires or get sacked the team becomes inactive. Only to become active again if its reputation has grown enough. 

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Here are some screen shots of a recent holiday save I had done. These are the finals of the ECWC. Important factors to note are I only have the N Irish Premier League active, and no tournament around the world is in full detail. Therefore alot of the results will go on reputation. As you can see there are mainly the big teams coming out as winners but there are "smaller" clubs in the runners up positions. Another enormous factor that makes these final outcomes different to "the days of yore" is due to hardcoding, if the winner of the domestic cup has won the domestic league, then their place is taken by the next best team in the domestic league. The real life competition used to pick the runner up of the domestic cup. Therefore in FM the chances are weighted towards the "bigger" teams entering the competition as these teams are more than likely to be high up in the league. Thus you see more of these "big" teams making the final. I reckon if you were able to run this with loads of nations on full detail and many leagues, you would see more variety of finalists. You would also need alot of patience .

[irish kopite]

19 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Here are some screen shots of a recent holiday save I had done. These are the finals of the ECWC. Important factors to note are I only have the N Irish Premier League active, and no tournament around the world is in full detail. Therefore alot of the results will go on reputation. As you can see there are mainly the big teams coming out as winners but there are "smaller" clubs in the runners up positions. Another enormous factor that makes these final outcomes different to "the days of yore" is due to hardcoding, if the winner of the domestic cup has won the domestic league, then their place is taken by the next best team in the domestic league. The real life competition used to pick the runner up of the domestic cup. Therefore in FM the chances are weighted towards the "bigger" teams entering the competition as these teams are more than likely to be high up in the league. Thus you see more of these "big" teams making the final. I reckon if you were able to run this with loads of nations on full detail and many leagues, you would see more variety of finalists. You would also need alot of patience .

For the CWC and in FM23 have you tried the Qualified Teams route "Get last winner off competition" and insert each domestic cup winner with runner up as back-up. This used to work for me up to FM20 or FM19 but in recent versions this route hasn't worked for me at all. For some reason it never picked enough cup winners or runners up if necessary.

I had a bit of a breakthrough this week though! Your 80s versions have inspired me to recreate the 1996/7 European comps before they were irreparably damaged by the expansion of the Champions League to include non- title winners. Between 1994/95 to 1996/97 the CL proper started with a 16 team group phase.I used the qualified teams route mainly to avoid the FM situation where if a team does the continental double, like Real Madrid in 21/22, the domestic runner-up also enters the CL instead of the UEFA Cup. I inserted the top 23 last winners of the domestic leagues and used the "don't use later rules if number of teams found is at least 1" for the previous season's CL winners. The last rule being domestic champion of nation 24.

This worked and I've done some limited testing during the week. Maybe this might work for the CWC and the competition could run like it used to up to 1997? I should get some editing done this weekend and I'll try it myself and report back. I might release this 1996/7 version if I'm fully satisfied with it. (A lot of credit should go to you and Carlito though as you two gents have done the legwork).

I think perhaps ticking "all qualified teams play in comp" and "clear qualified teams" and "remove unused team" altogether helped the editor to get enough teams i.e 24 to start the CL. But like everything with the editor I can't say that 100% confidence.

 

 

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Trying to get the runner up thing working fried my mind when I first set out with the 80s files in fm20. I tried the use runner up as backup option and listed every domestic cup, but to no avail. It was then pointed out that the reason could well be the hard coding. I reluctantly accepted it and I didn't even try this year. I just accepted things. I've read your post several times now and I'm just about getting my head around your editor instructions. It's crazy, you got to think like a robot to understand the editor sometimes. 

[EnigMattic1]

This is the sort of file I can get used to. It is something I always wanted to try and make, but I would always get distracted by expanding North American pyramids.

My pet hate is that the so called "Champions League" isn't, as the name would suggest, a league of champions.  It irks me that a nation like England or Spain can have 4 teams in the competition. How can one domestic league have 4 champions?

Looking forward to using this file.

[irish kopite]

14 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Trying to get the runner up thing working fried my mind when I first set out with the 80s files in fm20. I tried the use runner up as backup option and listed every domestic cup, but to no avail. It was then pointed out that the reason could well be the hard coding. I reluctantly accepted it and I didn't even try this year. I just accepted things. I've read your post several times now and I'm just about getting my head around your editor instructions. It's crazy, you got to think like a robot to understand the editor sometimes. 

I got the CWC working as intended last night- runner up of domestic main cup goes into the CWC instead of league runner-up where the league champion also wins the domestic main cup. I've run a small test from seasons 2022/23 to 2024/25 as it was late. Sorry I should've taken a picture. I'm away from my PC for the next 2 days.

Edited February 19, 2023 by irish kopite

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Hey well done @irish kopite. I just loaded up the editor to have a play around but it seems you've done the hard work. This is a game changer. Well done again. When you're back on line again would you mind uploading it or send it to me and I can update this file? (if I haven't managed to do it myself.)

[Lord Rowell]

On 22/01/2023 at 14:59, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

I've no seeding in the draws other than byes for the top nations into the first round. 

Edit: I've just checked the file and a long term holiday save up to 2090. There is the odd top seed clash (nations 1 to 8). In the 22/23 of my EC test save, AC Milan played Bayern Munich in the first round. I agree alot of the winners are traditionally big teams. Maybe this has alot to do with the finances of today compared to back in the 80s when it was more of a level playing field?

It is still going to be very difficult for a minnow to lift one of these trophies unless there has been continual success with financial reward to build better squads. If Bohemians, for example, were to make it through to the first round of the European competitions then they will receive financial rewards up to €50 million depending on the competition. This money, can allow the club the opportunity to dominate their league. So regular first round appearances will allow the club to grow continentally, and gradually get further into the competitions each year. However drop out at the qualifying round, or worse still, don't qualify will make things harder for the minnows to make it to the super big time.

 

I think also the prize money is extremely high for the latter stages, 50m EUROS for the winner is about 2.5 x real life. More money for the latter stages will reinforce inequalities.

I really should add though, fantastic mod you have made here.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Lord Rowell

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

2 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

I think also the prize money is extremely high for the latter stages, 50m EUROS for the winner is about 2.5 x real life. More money for the latter stages will reinforce inequalities.

I really should add though, fantastic mod you have made here.

Thanks for the kind words @Lord Rowell. Try the 23.4 version. It is far more polished than the earlier incarnations and is the best version I've produced.

Regarding the finances.... I agree with what you say about the prize money, but part of me wanted to make the European competitions extremely appealing to clubs. This puts such a massive emphasis on winning the league to get into these competitions. If a team misses out it is going to hurt domestically, and could prove extremely costly for big teams missing out. The Champions League, for example, gives teams 4 bites of the cherry (in England) to enter the top European competition. With my file it is one bite, one chance, that's it. The financial reward is definitely appealing. Manchester City will have made over 90m euros in prize money and TV revenue in this year's Champions League campaign. The prize money in my file comes to 137.5m euros (for getting to and winning the final) plus TV revenue of 500k per match. So there is the potential to add another 4.5 million euros to the coffers in TV revenue. A rather large carrot for the winner is what I have dangled here . The Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup are also attractive but on a sliding scale.

[jeffafc]

My favourite database, I hope we get one for FM24

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

I will bring version 3.15 into fm24. I'll want to do a fair bit of testing with it though first.