[FM22] Overhauling SAD Franchise, (completed) and now Portugal. (Portugese edition). (Youth Only)............... Maybe!

[Jimbokav1971]

Jul & Aug 2033.

Liga Bwin. A decent start with both home games won, but both away games lost by a single goal. 

Europa Conference. When we conceded late goals in the 1st leg against Sparta Rotterdam I thought we might have blown it, but we were really good in the 2nd leg. 

Taça da Liga Allianz Cup.

Goal-scoring GK's. 4 GK goals in the opening few games is a good start when you consider we only scored 5 in the whole of last season. 

 

 

 

Finances. We desperately needed this money.   

Edited December 1, 2021 by Jimbokav1971

[Sonic Youth]

13 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Having said that, his Dirtiness is 15. I never know with these things if high is good or bad. Is 15 75% dirty?  

I still think it's more to do with him being caught wrong-side though. 

High is bad! 

Does he have high consistency as well 

His skills could suggest that he makes the right decisions, sees what he has to do, doesn’t quite make because he didn’t work hard enough and took them down “professional foul” style. Or leaves a little bit too much niggle in his challenges 

[Sonic Youth]

Looks like we need the popcorn early for Europe this season, with some exciting progress through the qualifying stages 

Group stages in Europe has a kerching sound to it 

[Jimbokav1971]

Sep 2033. 

Liga Bwin. Not a good month in terms of results in the league, but we actually played quite well. We dominated without scoring against Leixões SC, were dominant against Moreirense and might have nicked something against Gil Vicente. Even against Sporting we were in the game until late on. 1 point from 12 isn't great though and it sees us plummet down the table. 

Europa Conference. Things are looking better in Europe though. While the plan was to play the 2nd string in the Group Stage, we went with a 1st choice squad against Sochi in order to give us a morale boost and hopefully get us back on track. 

Goal-scoring GK's.

 

Records.

Finances.   

[Jimbokav1971]

12 hours ago, Sonic Youth said:

High is bad! 

Does he have high consistency as well 

His skills could suggest that he makes the right decisions, sees what he has to do, doesn’t quite make because he didn’t work hard enough and took them down “professional foul” style. Or leaves a little bit too much niggle in his challenges 

Consistency 11. 

He started off the season behaving himself. 

But it wasn't long before he was up to his old tricks. (6 yellows in his last 8 games). The pattern of play 1/miss 1 shows you that I'm generally trying to play with 2 different teams at the moment. While it's not really working in terms of results, it is of course giving the next generation some much needed 1st team exposure. 

[Jimbokav1971]

12 hours ago, Sonic Youth said:

Looks like we need the popcorn early for Europe this season, with some exciting progress through the qualifying stages 

Group stages in Europe has a kerching sound to it 

Group Stage doesn't seem to be a problem. It's just about collecting points, money and experience. 

How far we go after that will probably depend on who we get drawn against. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Oct 2033. 

Liga Bwin. We've only drawn 1 of 11 games so far in the league. We need to change that. We never seem tot eke out narrow draws. Even the 1 game we drew was a game that we completely dominated and should have won by about 3. 

Europa Conference. 

Taça de Portugal Placard. I again opted to rotate the squad in this game and they did quite well. 

Goal-scoring GK's. He might be up to 68 career goals, but all is not going swimmingly for (23e) Valente (POR) 6'4". He is only contracted until the end of the season and we simply can't afford to sign him to a new contract. He wants £36k per month and the most the board will allow me to offer is £21.5k per month. I am working with a self-imposed limit of £20k per month for all other players, (with no exception), but for my Goal-scoring GK I wanted to pay him whatever was required to keep him. His unhappiness with this has contributed to him, (in my opinion), missing 3 of 9 penalties this season.

I have finally managed to get him to sign a new 5 year deal, (which will take him through to until he is 31), but I had to promise him 25% of any sale value. The truth is it will be worth it to keep him at the club. 

Finances.   

[Jimbokav1971]

Nov 2033. 

Liga Bwin. 2 wins is great and moves us back up the table, but we need to continue this form. 

Europa Conference. You can see by the goal-scorers that I am still rotating the squad for European games. 

Taça de Portugal Placard. You might not have seen (32c) Tomás (POR) before, so allow me to introduce you. 

Goal-scoring GK's. He's missed another penalty, (his 4th miss of the season, or should I save he had a 4th penalty saved because they have all been on target). He hasn't missed more than 1 in a single season before now so I'm looking for reasons. Before I got him to sign a new contract I put it down to his unhappiness about his contract situation but now..... Maybe this most recent one is the one that he was always going to see saved and the others should have been converted by a happy and settled keeper? 

I'm not willing to take the chance and will do whatever it takes to get rid of any negativity, so his individual training is being changed and I will keep an eye on it. 

Job interviews/offers. The only roles I would consider at this stage would be something Guinea-Bissau, Angola or Cape Verde related, (although I might be persuaded by a Portugese age group). 

Shortlist. The only player here I'm really interested in his (25a) Soares (POR) *, (remember him), but I just can't afford to spend £2.3M to trigger his relegation release clause. 

Finances. I think we're over our wage budget because of the new deal I agreed at the end of last month for GK (23e) Valente (POR) 6'4" *. I just hadn't realised until now so will move some Transfer budget over to Wage budget to cover.    

[Jimbokav1971]

Dec 2033. 

Liga Bwin. I was furious with the Braga result.  Our XG was more than double theirs and our star striker (23d) Hugo (POR) *, (who's already scored 22 goals for the season), only tested the GK with 3 of his 8 shots. We should have romped the game but (23d) Hugo (POR) * miss-fired so we didn't score so we lost.  It's made worse by the fact that they are 1 of our rivals for a European spot and we were at home. 

Europa Conference. 

Taça de Portugal Placard & SAD  Franchise Derby. They led us 3-1 and the pressure was on, but (23d) Hugo (POR) * brought his goal haul for the season to 22 by nothing 4 goals to see us through.  The only way this gets any better is if it was a Final. 

Taça da Liga Allianz Cup. How close was this Group? 

Goal-scoring GK's. He missed a penalty against Sochi that cost us the win. He's now converted only 6 of 11 penalties this season.  I'm at a bit of a loss to explain it if I'm honest. 

Youth Intake preview. I am of the opinion that the Youth Intake preview was next to useless in previous issues of the game and am starting to think the same again now. Just because it has some bright new letters doesn't really make it any more accurate. 

Interviews and Job offers. 

Finances. The Europa Conference prize money is just allowing us to keep our head above water without selling players. It can't continue like this. We need to either sell players or start playing in the Europa League or Champions League.    Damn. I forgot to transfer the wage budget over last month.  There you go. That's better.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Jimbokav1971

[Quiche Magnet]

I've been reading this thread for a week now when I can and I absolutely love it! Especially the detail you go to about what you're doing and the star ratings. Definitely a challenge but well on your way to challenging that top 3, just hope some of those positions are accurate on the youth intake preview. Hard to battle with some of the PA that Benfica and Porto are able to attract

[Thebaker]

The youth intake is still pretty random, the players names, nationalities and positions are fixed at the intake preview. I think they have a PA and CA range which is what the preview indicates.

But they may be at the top or bottom of any range and as a result completely different and the preview ends up looking wrong.

[Jimbokav1971]

5 hours ago, Quiche Magnet said:

I've been reading this thread for a week now when I can and I absolutely love it! Especially the detail you go to about what you're doing and the star ratings. Definitely a challenge but well on your way to challenging that top 3, just hope some of those positions are accurate on the youth intake preview. Hard to battle with some of the PA that Benfica and Porto are able to attract

Thanks very much. Glad you are enjoying it. 

The quality the big 3 generate gives me reason for optimism because I know that it's possible to get them. I "just" need to get our reputation to that level, (which is obviously easier said than done). 

[Jimbokav1971]

3 hours ago, Thebaker said:

The youth intake is still pretty random, the players names, nationalities and positions are fixed at the intake preview. I think they have a PA and CA range which is what the preview indicates.

But they may be at the top or bottom of any range and as a result completely different and the preview ends up looking wrong.

I'm not sure that the intake is completely random, (from the preview), in terms of quality, but it's also not accurate enough. (Having said that, I haven't run many multiple Youth Intakes from the same preview so happy to believe you if you have done. A lot of my thinking is from previous games which can obviously be flawed).  That one I posted about from last season was definitely bugged, (you can't give a Golden Generation E's and F's).

[Thebaker]

4 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I'm not sure that the intake is completely random, (from the preview), in terms of quality, but it's also not accurate enough. (Having said that, I haven't run many multiple Youth Intakes from the same preview so happy to believe you if you have done. A lot of my thinking is from previous games which can obviously be flawed).  That one I posted about from last season was definitely bugged, (you can't give a Golden Generation E's and F's).

i did reload one year to see if it made a difference, this is why i think they have ranges generated at the preview.  The preview is based i think on a point in that range for the players, maybe midway. They could be much worse or much better than the preview.

Often the best rated ones will be the same players but not always, in the same way the worst ones will often be towards the bottom of any rating. Hence they may be at the bottom of the range in one save and midway or near the top in another save.

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan 2034. 

Liga Bwin. We've still only drawn 1 league game all season and maybe I'm being a bit greedy, but certainly the Boavista game and possibly even the Maritimo game I think we might have got something out of. We're doing ok, but we're capable of more and not really firing on all cylinders at the moment. 

SAD  Franchise Derby. They had a man sent off,  and although they did quite well for a while, they ran out of steam in the end and we punished them. 

Taça de Portugal Placard. We're in the Semi's and while it would have been good to get Guimaraes, I don't really mind getting Benfica. 2 more games against the Big Boys will be more good experience for us. 

Goal-scoring GK's. He's missed another penalty!  He's now only converted 6 of 12 penalties this season after converting them at 50% all the way through his career. This isn't random. This is something specific that has changed. I just don't know what. 

Oh hang on.....

Despite me changing his individual training last month, he's now even more unhappy than he was then. 

I've now changed it and this is what it shows now. The unhappiness is past tense rather than current tense. Fingers crossed trhat will do it. 

Finances.   

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, Thebaker said:

i did reload one year to see if it made a difference, this is why i think they have ranges generated at the preview.  The preview is based i think on a point in that range for the players, maybe midway. They could be much worse or much better than the preview.

Often the best rated ones will be the same players but not always, in the same way the worst ones will often be towards the bottom of any rating. Hence they may be at the bottom of the range in one save and midway or near the top in another save.

This surely can't be how it was designed. I reported it as a big anyway, but at some point I'm going to have to do a test of 1 particular intake from a save point on the preview day and analyse it to death. 

[turnip]

13 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

This surely can't be how it was designed. I reported it as a big anyway, but at some point I'm going to have to do a test of 1 particular intake from a save point on the preview day and analyse it to death. 

Honestly, I'm fairly sure that was how it was designed.

There are obviously a bunch of different things that go into determining what you get through your Youth Intake, but if there's any way of 'setting' how your players get generated, then people playing the game will figure it out. If it's at the Youth Intake Preview, then they'll save/reload before the Youth Intake Preview; if it's Intake Day, then save/reload before Intake Day. 

Really, the best way to do it is either to pick a random day between the Preview and the Intake to 'fix' the players, or to have what I think is in the game - some general guidelines are set before the Intake (probably before the Preview, otherwise that's save/reload-able) and then players are generated based on those guidelines and some weighted odds. So if the Preview says "Hey, there's a great striker coming through", there's a 50% better chance of a good striker coming through (or whatever). He might be crap when he's generated, but that's the odds/percentages system. 

[Jimbokav1971]

4 minutes ago, turnip said:

Honestly, I'm fairly sure that was how it was designed.

There are obviously a bunch of different things that go into determining what you get through your Youth Intake, but if there's any way of 'setting' how your players get generated, then people playing the game will figure it out. If it's at the Youth Intake Preview, then they'll save/reload before the Youth Intake Preview; if it's Intake Day, then save/reload before Intake Day. 

Really, the best way to do it is either to pick a random day between the Preview and the Intake to 'fix' the players, or to have what I think is in the game - some general guidelines are set before the Intake (probably before the Preview, otherwise that's save/reload-able) and then players are generated based on those guidelines and some weighted odds. So if the Preview says "Hey, there's a great striker coming through", there's a 50% better chance of a good striker coming through (or whatever). He might be crap when he's generated, but that's the odds/percentages system. 

I get the thinking, but if there isn't a fixed link to the preview, (even a vague link), then what's it's purpose? 

In truth I would probably not be overly pleased if it was 100% set in stone too, so I do want some fluidity. I just want more of a link to the preview.

If the preview suggests that 1 of the best players coming through is a striker, then I would at the very least expect the striker to be in the top half of players on intake day. If there is no link between intake preview and intake day itself, then this is a good idea, (like so many), that has just not been fully fleshed out and is simply a cosmetic addition. 

[Sonic Youth]

52 minutes ago, turnip said:

Honestly, I'm fairly sure that was how it was designed.

There are obviously a bunch of different things that go into determining what you get through your Youth Intake, but if there's any way of 'setting' how your players get generated, then people playing the game will figure it out. If it's at the Youth Intake Preview, then they'll save/reload before the Youth Intake Preview; if it's Intake Day, then save/reload before Intake Day. 

Really, the best way to do it is either to pick a random day between the Preview and the Intake to 'fix' the players, or to have what I think is in the game - some general guidelines are set before the Intake (probably before the Preview, otherwise that's save/reload-able) and then players are generated based on those guidelines and some weighted odds. So if the Preview says "Hey, there's a great striker coming through", there's a 50% better chance of a good striker coming through (or whatever). He might be crap when he's generated, but that's the odds/percentages system. 

 

43 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I get the thinking, but if there isn't a fixed link to the preview, (even a vague link), then what's it's purpose? 

In truth I would probably not be overly pleased if it was 100% set in stone too, so I do want some fluidity. I just want more of a link to the preview.

If the preview suggests that 1 of the best players coming through is a striker, then I would at the very least expect the striker to be in the top half of players on intake day. If there is no link between intake preview and intake day itself, then this is a good idea, (like so many), that has just not been fully fleshed out and is simply a cosmetic addition. 

The other problem with this is deciding if the staff member giving the rating is actually someone who is qualified and of a level to give an accurate-ish review.

Couple that with a standard deviation of the intake CA/PA’s and could get wildly inaccurate previews to intakes.

Though throwing around Golden Generation is happening to much.

[Jimbokav1971]

Feb 2034. 

Liga Bwin. I wasn't expecting anything from the Sporting or Gil Vicente games, (but we might have nicked a point against Gil Vicente), but dropping 2 points at home to Moreirense is a blow). 

Goal-scoring GK's. After missing 3 penalties on the bounce, (caused in my opinion by his unhappiness with 1st his contract and then his training), (23e) Valente (POR) 6'4" * notches his 69th goal with the winner against Leixões SC. On the plus side we have now been awarded 13 penalties this season, (a big increase on previous years), and this suggests that things are moving in the right direction. Possibly as a result of our players developing and us becoming a stronger force, but also as a result of PPM's (I think). 

Finances.   

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Intake day. Mar 2034. 

I have high hopes of thus intake. Another potential Golden Generation. 

It's a really poor intake. Really poor. 

Squad by PPA. 

Squad by actual PA. 

(34a) Ribeiro (POR) seems to be the stand-out player from this intake. 

[ToMexico!!]

Ribeiro looks class though theres quite a few ahead of him on the comparison there. 

[Ceching You Out]

I’m a little bit behind the discussion here but a couple tidbits that might be useful:

The HoYD (or whomever you have responsible) only impacts the positions, archetypes, and personalities of your intakes - not the CA or PA. I’ve seen that confirmed by SI employees.

I’m almost as certain that other staff have some, but much less, impact on your intake. But I’m hazy on the details like first team vs U19, personalities vs the rest.

FMScout has this to say on rough CA:

• 130 - Decent Premier League player
• 140 - Good Premier League player
• 150 - A leading Premier League player
• 170 - A world-class player

That lines up with what I’ve heard over the years as well. There’s also a CA calculator there I’ve been playing around with lately to see how it compares to PCA.

[abulezz]

Ribeiro looks like an absolute beast already!

[Jimbokav1971]

6 hours ago, ToMexico!! said:

Ribeiro looks class though theres quite a few ahead of him on the comparison there. 

Yeah, he does look very good. We have a few decent strikers on the production line at the moment. 

[Jimbokav1971]

21 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

I’m a little bit behind the discussion here but a couple tidbits that might be useful:

The HoYD (or whomever you have responsible) only impacts the positions, archetypes, and personalities of your intakes - not the CA or PA. I’ve seen that confirmed by SI employees.

I’m almost as certain that other staff have some, but much less, impact on your intake. But I’m hazy on the details like first team vs U19, personalities vs the rest.

FMScout has this to say on rough CA:

• 130 - Decent Premier League player
• 140 - Good Premier League player
• 150 - A leading Premier League player
• 170 - A world-class player

That lines up with what I’ve heard over the years as well. There’s also a CA calculator there I’ve been playing around with lately to see how it compares to PCA.

Good post. Thanks.  I'm going to respond in multiple posts. 

[Jimbokav1971]

22 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

The HoYD (or whomever you have responsible) only impacts the positions, archetypes, and personalities of your intakes - not the CA or PA. I’ve seen that confirmed by SI employees.

I believe you, (although haven't seen that confirmed). 

The obvious question is, (assuming it's true), and with the knowledge that we know that the HoyD is part of the Coaching Team rather than the Recruitment Team, what is the purpose of his highlighted attributes if he doesn't do any coaching? 

I know he's part of the coaching team. 

But I also know that he isn't involved in the training of either the U19's, U23's or B Team squads, and although he is involved in Senior training, doesn't lead any sessions. 

So we know that he's only involved in the Senior squad, (surprisingly), but when I go to look at the training he's doing, he's not on the list at all, so it's not a question of who I'm delegating to not tasking him with any work, but that he's not available for work. 

Now this is interesting. Although he is only listed on the Senior Squad page, he is available and working with the U19's.. 

U19's. 

So effectively he's a coach who's personality is a tiny bit more important than normal but his Preferred Formation is important. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Ceching You Out said:

I’m almost as certain that other staff have some, but much less, impact on your intake. But I’m hazy on the details like first team vs U19, personalities vs the rest.

I "think" that when you see a Newgen cone through with a player on their favoured personnel list, I think they have also influenced the player, (slightly). 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Ceching You Out said:

FMScout has this to say on rough CA:

• 130 - Decent Premier League player
• 140 - Good Premier League player
• 150 - A leading Premier League player
• 170 - A world-class player

That lines up with what I’ve heard over the years as well. There’s also a CA calculator there I’ve been playing around with lately to see how it compares to PCA.

I will have to take your word for it. Despite occasionally looking at CA and PA, it's all still a little murky for me. I don't trust it because we all know that you can have a player with great CA, but if he isn't good at what you are asking him to do, then it's just not going to work. 

Give me a rubbish player who is very good at what I specifically want him to do any day. In FM21 I had a striker in 1 of my saves, (the Scandi one I think), who was pretty average but scored a ridiculous number of goals. He attributes just seemed to find a sweet spot with the role/duty and the tactic. It's a little like the African striker I had at Barca, (Moukoko). He was ridiculously good. 

If I look at the top CA in our players now. (and remembering that this is Portugal rather than England), we've got quite a few at 100+, but particularly we have 3x 18 year olds at 100+ who have a good chance of reaching their potential. 

While I might not be overly impressed with this intake, there are a few who certainly seem capable of progressing into the Seniro squad. I was just hoping for more I think. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, abulezz said:

Ribeiro looks like an absolute beast already!

Yeah, he's certainly got my attention. 

We have quite a few players who have better CA than him, but I'm not sure there are too many who are as well balanced as him. I really like him. I worry about his low Det though and it will be interesting to see how he develops with that in mind. He's good enough to get onto the bench occasionally already. I don't spend lots of time referring back to CA and PA values, so even knowing that his PA is a modest 117 and if I look up at (30b) Horta (POR) * with a better PA of 133, I am inclined to play them on how they look rather than what their actual PA is, (although PPA does impact my decision making). 

[Ceching You Out]

36 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I believe you, (although haven't seen that confirmed). 

[snip]

So effectively he's a coach who's personality is a tiny bit more important than normal but his Preferred Formation is important. 

I remember coming across it in one of the threads here, but a needle in a haystack for as much as I read . I agree with the latter part, except I think the personality of HoYD (or intake-r) is slightly more important than “tiny” and I’d add that his style is supposed to be important too (e.g., Route 1 should be hoofball defenders and athletic forwards).

I can’t say I have strong evidence for either of those corrections, but in my current save the best personality I saw was Resolute until I hired a Model Citizen to handle intake. In the four-ish years since I’ve seen a couple Model Citizens and a handful of Professional (with high Det) and Resolute. Weirdly it seemed to come in waves - half the intakes with great personalities, half with mediocrity. There’s certainly a good deal of randomness, but I see it as one place you can impact your intakes (and I’m perhaps disproportionately concerned with squad personality).
 

33 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I "think" that when you see a Newgen cone through with a player on their favoured personnel list, I think they have also influenced the player, (slightly). 

Ahh that does ring a bell. I think I recall hearing the same in past editions and it would seem natural.

 

26 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I will have to take your word for it. Despite occasionally looking at CA and PA, it's all still a little murky for me. I don't trust it because we all know that you can have a player with great CA, but if he isn't good at what you are asking him to do, then it's just not going to work. 

Give me a rubbish player who is very good at what I specifically want him to do any day. In FM21 I had a striker in 1 of my saves, (the Scandi one I think), who was pretty average but scored a ridiculous number of goals. He attributes just seemed to find a sweet spot with the role/duty and the tactic. It's a little like the African striker I had at Barca, (Moukoko). He was ridiculously good. 

If I look at the top CA in our players now. (and remembering that this is Portugal rather than England), we've got quite a few at 100+, but particularly we have 3x 18 year olds at 100+ who have a good chance of reaching their potential. 

While I might not be overly impressed with this intake, there are a few who certainly seem capable of progressing into the Seniro squad. I was just hoping for more I think. 

Completely fair point on attribute distribution versus CA. There are a few factors that result in CA not equaling great performances - that’s one, as well as being trained in several positions, footedness, and (probably most importantly) the impact of hidden attributes which don’t change CA.

Safe to say I have little actual experience with these ranges since I’ve been all about Youth Only in poorly rated countries . I occasionally look them up as a reference point for whether we’re bringing through the caliber of players that would make European challenges even possible.

I also recognize I’m terrible at eyeballing talent levels unless it’s drastic. Hence why I’m tinkering with the CA calculator to challenge some of my conclusions and check the accuracy of PCA.

The more I talk about this, the more it becomes obvious that my next save will have to focus on looking behind the scenes with the editor to see if I can prove some of these right (or wrong).

[Jimbokav1971]

19 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

I remember coming across it in one of the threads here, but a needle in a haystack for as much as I read . I agree with the latter part, except I think the personality of HoYD (or intake-r) is slightly more important than “tiny” and I’d add that his style is supposed to be important too (e.g., Route 1 should be hoofball defenders and athletic forwards).

No, not tiny. A tiny bit more important. 

Yes, I agree about style, but it's not something that I have seen evidenced so far. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

20 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

I can’t say I have strong evidence for either of those corrections, but in my current save the best personality I saw was Resolute until I hired a Model Citizen to handle intake. In the four-ish years since I’ve seen a couple Model Citizens and a handful of Professional (with high Det) and Resolute. Weirdly it seemed to come in waves - half the intakes with great personalities, half with mediocrity. There’s certainly a good deal of randomness, but I see it as one place you can impact your intakes (and I’m perhaps disproportionately concerned with squad personality).

Completely agree about personalities, but going back to the recent intake, it surprised me.

It's just a shame that of the 6 highlighted personalities, only 2 of them, (and not Model Citizen), are in the 100+ PA group. . 

I think the time is approaching where I'm going to have to really start looking at this to see that I can squeeze the absolute most out of it. 

[Jimbokav1971]

28 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

Safe to say I have little actual experience with these ranges since I’ve been all about Youth Only in poorly rated countries . I occasionally look them up as a reference point for whether we’re bringing through the caliber of players that would make European challenges even possible.

I also recognize I’m terrible at eyeballing talent levels unless it’s drastic. Hence why I’m tinkering with the CA calculator to challenge some of my conclusions and check the accuracy of PCA.

The more I talk about this, the more it becomes obvious that my next save will have to focus on looking behind the scenes with the editor to see if I can prove some of these right (or wrong).

I'm really poor at it myself and certainly learning as I go. I don't like to look and look and really look at the editor I like just dipping in and out and taking snapshots rather than using it as a regular tool. I think I'm going to have a look at the CA/PA of the Big 3 so I can see what we're up against. 

Porto by CA. The personalities look pretty decent here. High Pro to the fore. 

Porto by PA. 

Sporting by CA. Sporting look older than Porto and also seem more Det based than Pro based. 

Sporting by PA.

Benfica by CA. They seem older than both the previous squads and possibly as a result also more Pro. 

Benfica BY PA. Oh wow.  Look at that Brazilian at the top of the list. 

That gives us a clearer indication of what's possible in Portugal, but also serves to show us how far we still have to come. 

[Ceching You Out]

19 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Completely agree about personalities, but going back to the recent intake, it surprised me.

It's just a shame that of the 6 highlighted personalities, only 2 of them, (and not Model Citizen), are in the 100+ PA group. . 

I think the time is approaching where I'm going to have to really start looking at this to see that I can squeeze the absolute most out of it. 

Feels like a roll of the dice on whether the good personalities line up with PCA/PPA. It can lead to a situation that I agonize over - star youth who is good enough to play from the off but with a bad personality that needs time to change. There's the potential that he performs and/or develops too fast that he moves up the squad hierarchy, leading to his personality essentially cementing or, even worse, becoming the central influence on future generations.

I've tried a few different things in these scenarios but I'd be hard pressed to declare one (or any) the right strategy. Part of the challenge is some approaches make sense when you think your squad is hitting a talent plateau and few youth go directly to the first squad (i.e., slowing players down to manage personalities more) but look silly if your squad is going to be on a steady treadmill upwards for a few seasons.

[Ceching You Out]

15 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I'm really poor at it myself and certainly learning as I go. I don't like to look and look and really look at the editor I like just dipping in and out and taking snapshots rather than using it as a regular tool. I think I'm going to have a look at the CA/PA of the Big 3 so I can see what we're up against. 

Porto by CA. The personalities look pretty decent here. High Pro to the fore. 

Porto by PA. 

Sporting by CA. Sporting look older than Porto and also seem more Det based than Pro based. 

Sporting by PA.

Benfica by CA. They seem older than both the previous squads and possibly as a result also more Pro. 

Benfica BY PA. Oh wow.  Look at that Brazilian at the top of the list. 

That gives us a clearer indication of what's possible in Portugal, but also serves to show us how far we still have to come. 

I think that's a smart way to use the editor. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep from seeing too much with it, either intentionally or accidentally. Don't want to steal away  unpredictability unless I'm doing it intentionally to better understand how everything works.

That's quite interesting to see the Portuguese Big 3 by CA. I think my FC Encamp side is probably 2-3 seasons behind your side in terms of CA (assuming the CA calculator is relatively accurate), so seeing the gap between your side and the brightest lights.... All three have roughly 20+ players better than your best by CA. Some of that gap can be made up by beating the AI at morale management, putting players in the right roles, and coherent tactics, but still.

[Sonic Youth]

8 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Yeah, he's certainly got my attention. 

We have quite a few players who have better CA than him, but I'm not sure there are too many who are as well balanced as him. I really like him. I worry about his low Det though and it will be interesting to see how he develops with that in mind. He's good enough to get onto the bench occasionally already. I don't spend lots of time referring back to CA and PA values, so even knowing that his PA is a modest 117 and if I look up at (30b) Horta (POR) * with a better PA of 133, I am inclined to play them on how they look rather than what their actual PA is, (although PPA does impact my decision making). 

You should check out @_Ben_ story about training ratings and warning/fining for raising that Determination 

[karanhsingh]

1 hour ago, Sonic Youth said:

You should check out @_Ben_ story about training ratings and warning/fining for raising that Determination 

How does he do it?

[karanhsingh]

I know it's not directly relevant but thought this may be a good place to ask - how do you find good coaching staff for your youth side? The filter to only select people who want to join your youth team does not seem to work. 99% of the people it throws up are interested in a senior role at way higher money.

[Sonic Youth]

35 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

How does he do it?

He’s been tracking training ratings and seeing at what level players are unhappy with being warned/fined. A positive response to a warning/fine can result in a bump to Determination and Work Rate.

[_Ben_]

11 minutes ago, Sonic Youth said:

He’s been tracking training ratings and seeing at what level players are unhappy with being warned/fined. A positive response to a warning/fine can result in a bump to Determination and Work Rate.

Not for training, no (although I have been making team selections based on this). I warn or fine players using the ‘discuss’ button and it can have an impact on their Det/Work Rate if they agree. 

[karanhsingh]

Just now, _Ben_ said:

Not for training, no (although I have been making team selections based on this). I warn or fine players using the ‘discuss’ button and it can have an impact on their Det/Work Rate if they agree. 

Warn/ fine them for what?

I have not seen any impact of warning for training or fining for red cards (in line with code of conduct). They react positively most of the time but there is no change in determination or work rate.

[_Ben_]

25 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

Warn/ fine them for what?

I have not seen any impact of warning for training or fining for red cards (in line with code of conduct). They react positively most of the time but there is no change in determination or work rate.

Sorry - I missed that bit off!

If they rate below 6.5 in a match, you often have this option. I think it can be used a finite number of times per week/month etc but often works quite well. 
 

EDIT - for purposes of realism, I always follow this with a chat criticising exactly why - e.g. passing wasn’t good enough, didn’t leave the line etc. I have no idea the impact of that but it feels realistic!

Edited December 6, 2021 by _Ben_

[Punch]

57 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

If they rate below 6.5 in a match, you often have this option. I think it can be used a finite number of times per week/month etc but often works quite well. 
 

EDIT - for purposes of realism, I always follow this with a chat criticising exactly why - e.g. passing wasn’t good enough, didn’t leave the line etc. I have no idea the impact of that but it feels realistic!

Is the follow up an FM22 function?

 

I generally issue a warning for a rating of 6.3 and 6.2, and a fine for 6.1 or below, depending on the circumstances.

[_Ben_]

12 minutes ago, Punch said:

Is the follow up an FM22 function?

No. It’s a separate entity. One is ‘Discipline player for poor performance’ and the other, if I recall, is Criticise -> Poor Performance Last Game. It’s here where you get those specific options for their actual game play. 

I’ve no evidence to say that it has an impact on x thing you’ve criticised, but, for me, it feels a more realistic part of that warning/fining process. 

[raz4la]

8 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

No. It’s a separate entity. One is ‘Discipline player for poor performance’ and the other, if I recall, is Criticise -> Poor Performance Last Game. It’s here where you get those specific options for their actual game play. 

I’ve no evidence to say that it has an impact on x thing you’ve criticised, but, for me, it feels a more realistic part of that warning/fining process. 

This is interesting, I have tried to track this on my save with the warnings and fines but I haven't found anything special. Might have to try this too, thanks.

 

@Jimbokav1971 Do you have a screenshot of Geilson at Benfica?

[karanhsingh]

38 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

No. It’s a separate entity. One is ‘Discipline player for poor performance’ and the other, if I recall, is Criticise -> Poor Performance Last Game. It’s here where you get those specific options for their actual game play. 

I’ve no evidence to say that it has an impact on x thing you’ve criticised, but, for me, it feels a more realistic part of that warning/fining process. 

I have just tried this for the first time, hope it works! We lost the last game 0-4 so seemed like a good opportunity 

@Jimbokav1971 sorry for de-railing your thread, we shall stop now!

[Punch]

54 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

No. It’s a separate entity. One is ‘Discipline player for poor performance’ and the other, if I recall, is Criticise -> Poor Performance Last Game. It’s here where you get those specific options for their actual game play. 

Thanks, I will give that a look next time I need it.

 

55 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I’ve no evidence to say that it has an impact on x thing you’ve criticised, but, for me, it feels a more realistic part of that warning/fining process.

I like it

[Sonic Youth]

10 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

@Jimbokav1971 sorry for de-railing your thread, we shall stop now!

 Yes, we should stop derailing Jumbo’s thread.

Thanks @_Ben_ for correcting my misconception of the ratings used, and the training selections 

That was an interesting derailment though, especially how many people are doing slightly differing and similar methods of tracking and experimenting 

[Jimbokav1971]

5 hours ago, Sonic Youth said:

You should check out @_Ben_ story about training ratings and warning/fining for raising that Determination 

Yeah, I've been meaning to look into that because someone mentioned it in the Youth Challenge thread in CSU. It triggered that he said it very matter of factly, (as if it was a done deal), so I have been meaning to look into it. @_Ben_is the perfect person if he's documenting it. Thanks.