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Simeones tactics

Pablo Sanchez

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Experienced Defender

Experienced Defender

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Pablo Sanchez said:

No i dont want to download i just wanna know some of the in game instructions i might use for a defensive 4-4-2

Well, if I were to replicate Simeone's 442, I would most likely go with something along these lines:

TQ      PFat

 

IWat      CMde     BBM       Wsu

 

WBsu     CDde     CDde     FBsu

SKde/su

Balanced mentality

- play out of defence, higher tempo, hit early crosses

- counter (and sometimes counter-press)

- standard D-line, lower LOE, use tighter marking, get stuck in

That would be the base, and then small gradual tweaks may come if needed.

 

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mc22

mc22

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Posted
On 14/08/2019 at 09:20, Experienced Defender said:

Well, if I were to replicate Simeone's 442, I would most likely go with something along these lines:

TQ      PFat

 

IWat      CMde     BBM       Wsu

 

WBsu     CDde     CDde     FBsu

SKde/su

Balanced mentality

- play out of defence, higher tempo, hit early crosses

- counter (and sometimes counter-press)

- standard D-line, lower LOE, use tighter marking, get stuck in

That would be the base, and then small gradual tweaks may come if needed.

 

Could you use a wide midfielder or wide playmaker in this if its based on Simeone? I feel like Koke is the perfect example of those roles in his system.

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Experienced Defender

Experienced Defender

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2 hours ago, mc22 said:

Could you use a wide midfielder or wide playmaker in this if its based on Simeone? I feel like Koke is the perfect example of those roles in his system.

You can, depending on who plays where in a given match. Koke can play as both a central and wide midfielder, and can be utilized in a number of roles.

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mc22

mc22

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On 16/08/2019 at 14:21, Experienced Defender said:

You can, depending on who plays where in a given match. Koke can play as both a central and wide midfielder, and can be utilized in a number of roles.

which of the two wide roles would you recomment swapping out for a WP, I tried this set up and while I was having a hard time creating many chances I tried to switch the inverted winger for a WP, but just want to get your input. Overall though i think its a promising baseline, unfortunately the first match trying it was against Liverpool in semis of champions league so probably not the best test for it.

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Experienced Defender

Experienced Defender

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mc22 said:

which of the two wide roles would you recomment swapping out for a WP, I tried this set up and while I was having a hard time creating many chances I tried to switch the inverted winger for a WP, but just want to get your input. Overall though i think its a promising baseline, unfortunately the first match trying it was against Liverpool in semis of champions league so probably not the best test for it

Are you playing this system with Atletico or some other team?

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mc22

mc22

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Are you playing this system with Atletico or some other team?

Not Atletico, just tried it out with my Everton save which is a few seasons in so I've strengthened them quite a bit, I do alot of my recruiting based on what I imagine an atletico type team would be in real life.

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Jean0987654321

Jean0987654321

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On 20/08/2019 at 14:43, Oakland Stomper said:

That screenshot was from the season opener last weekend. I think that the point is that Atletico appear to be playing a very different formation, very much a 433. Simone is flexible and apparently evolutionary. 

Nah...that's just a lopsided 442 shape. That is his bread and butter. Saul sitting in when attacking and Lemar acting as a inverted winger. Joao Felix at the 9.5 spot as well...

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Jean0987654321

Jean0987654321

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, carloshcorbalan said:

que sugieres Jean.....

cual es tu visión táctica de éste  atlético  Madrid  ???

I think it is key to keep it a bit simple at first and then add pis/tis at your own judgment (ala Simeone)

 

But here is where I would start

GK

CWB (a)-CD-CD-CWB (a)

WP (a)-CM (d)-MEZ (s)-WM (a)

SS (a)-----

---------PF (a)

 

PIs

WP - Get Further Forward

WM - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside, Roam From Position, Cross Less Often, Dribble Less

SS - Roam From Position

PF - Roam From Position, Move Into Channels

 

Mentality - Counter (or Cautious)

Tis

More Direct

Pass Into Space

Whipped Crosses

Counter

Counterpress

Take Long Kicks

Distribute to (good player in the air)

Defend Narrow

Much Urgent Pressing

Tighter Marking

Prevent Short GK Distribution

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Oakland Stomper

Oakland Stomper

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Nah...that's just a lopsided 442 shape. That is his bread and butter. Saul sitting in when attacking and Lemar acting as a inverted winger. Joao Felix at the 9.5 spot as well...

Nope, I watched the match. It was a 433 from the outset. Simeone has done something similar in low key cup matches against side that bunker and by rep that's what he expected from Getafe. Simeone was trying to flood the midfield but Bordales, who's a brilliant manager, simply tucked and dropped. From a tactical standpoint it was a brilliant match. 

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jc577

jc577

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Oakland Stomper said:

Nope, I watched the match. It was a 433 from the outset. Simeone has done something similar in low key cup matches against side that bunker and by rep that's what he expected from Getafe. Simeone was trying to flood the midfield but Bordales, who's a brilliant manager, simply tucked and dropped. From a tactical standpoint it was a brilliant match. 

But we must remember that formations in FM represent your defensive shape, so whilst Atleti’s Attacking shape resembles that of a narrow 433, their formation (in FM) should be a 442, as that’s how they defend. You can easily get a 442 to transition to this narrow 433 in attack with the right roles and duties.

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mc22

mc22

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Posted

One of the things I get stuck on trying to recreate Atletico, is the roles of the wide players, I know on one side they would use a WP, but not sure what do use on the other flank, usually I would assume a Wide Midfielder, since Simeone often plays 4 center mid type players, but now that they have Lemar would a winger or inverted winger be more realistic? I would think both roles would be ones that cut inside and sit narrow, since traditionally both fullbacks behind them were fairly attacking and provided the width.

Im thinking the following lineup is what I'm going to play around with:

                   SK (d)

FB(a) - CD(d) -  CD(d) - FB(a)

WM(s) - BBM(s) - CM(d) - WP(s)

           PF(s) - CF(a)

 

Make the team defend and play narrow, more disciplined, lower line of engagement, play down both flanks, higher tempo, pass into space

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Oakland Stomper

Oakland Stomper

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jc, I'm very well aware of how formations work in FM.

I just went back and watched the match up until the two red cards and both Jean and I are incorrect. Simeone lined his side up in a VERY unique 4312/433 which likely cannot be replicated in FM. 

The central defenders are bog standard with short passing. Outside of them there were two complete wingbacks on attack (very!).

The midfield was where it became interesting as all three players were in the DM strata. Partey appears to have been a halfback, while Koke and Saul moved wide in possession to cover for the space left by the outside backs. They also acted as deep playmakers and the central defenders seemed partnered with them in building out of the back. Neither ventured too far forward. I'm not sure what their role would be in FM. 

Up top is also a bit challenging to replicate. Out of possession Lemar stayed central and slightly deeper than Morata and Felix, but not always. In attack there was lots of movement and position changes. He might be a Support Striker, but I fear that role might drop him too deep. False 9? Morata dropped deeper than slightly deeper than Felix, but not much as both stayed pretty high up the pitch. Maybe Pressing Forward on support for him. Felix was more advanced and less involved in defending, so Advanced Forward seems right for him. 

This is the same shape as Simeone used for part of the pre-season match against Real. We'll see if he sticks with it. 

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yellowforever

yellowforever

Posted
Posted

I thought I'd just chime in with my thoughts.

I'm playing on the updated database with Bolton, and thought I'd turn to Mr Simeone to provide me with the inspiration. My reasoning being that I'd need to punch above my weight and an organised defensive approach would be a good start.

I've tried to do a (mostly) faithful recreation of Diego's tactics at Atletico - but like with everthing, I've had to adapt it to the players I have available to me. I have a home set up, which is either a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-4-2 on balanced mentality. My away tactic is a 4-4-2-0 to simulate how Simeone's side play against the big teams in Europe. Been tinkering with OIs to try and emulate the wonderful balance between pressing and sitting that ATM do.

Mixed bag so far. 3 wins, 2 draws, 6 losses. I've largely been hamstrung by how young the squad is, and how little quality there is. Takeover happened after the end of the transfer window, and so I wasn't able to bring anyone in bar a few youngsters from Premier League clubs where I don't have to play their wages. The biggest issue remains the defence, where I have two youth players who are probably non-league standard in centre half. Quite simply I just don't have the mental attributes available for this style of play. Will be sticking with it though, and seeing if I can keep them up!

Bolton Wanderers_ Overview.png

Bolton Wanderers_ Overview-2.png

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mc22

mc22

Posted
Posted
On 22/08/2019 at 00:36, Jean0987654321 said:

I think it is key to keep it a bit simple at first and then add pis/tis at your own judgment (ala Simeone)

 

But here is where I would start

GK

CWB (a)-CD-CD-CWB (a)

WP (a)-CM (d)-MEZ (s)-WM (a)

SS (a)-----

---------PF (a)

 

PIs

WP - Get Further Forward

WM - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside, Roam From Position, Cross Less Often, Dribble Less

SS - Roam From Position

PF - Roam From Position, Move Into Channels

 

Mentality - Counter (or Cautious)

Tis

More Direct

Pass Into Space

Whipped Crosses

Counter

Counterpress

Take Long Kicks

Distribute to (good player in the air)

Defend Narrow

Much Urgent Pressing

Tighter Marking

Prevent Short GK Distribution

This seems very aggressive, but I'm a huge fan so definitively going to try this

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Oakland Stomper

Oakland Stomper

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Posted

Simoene's tactics are not about formations, nor are they formationally rigid, though he does require complete adherence to the plan. 

He had spent the bulk of his playing career in Italy and that influenced his initial style of play. When he arrived at Atleti he found a team of disparate parts that was playing far below it's potential. That was in fact the recent history of the club. His first task was the stabilize the situation and impose (that cannot be emphasized enough) his ideas on the club. If a player wasn't capable or willing to abide by this they were benched and eventually jettisoned. So if you want your team to play like Simeone's, the first thing that you need to do is get the correct players AND get rid of those who aren't right. If a player is anything less than 15 in determination, work-rate and teamwork, they won't play for Simeone. Of course one might need to compromise at lower levels, but certainly don't go below 13 in any of these traits. Also, look very carefully at the professionalism of the player. If it's dodgy, get rid of them. The club is a reflection of who Simeone was as a player. It was a Spanish side playing like and Italian one. 

As for the actual tactics, yes, Simeone has used a 442/4411/4222/42211 in the bulk of his matches in charge. I think that was his comfort zone. All the same, he's used a very aggressive 433 in matches against clearly inferior clubs, and 451/4141 in tough Champions League matches. The things that are unwavering are the core concepts. 1.) Never let the other side attack down the middle. 2.) Use the touchline as your friend; push the opposition wide and trap once they're there. 3.) Win the ball in the middle 3rd and attack very directly from there, hopefully getting in behind the opponent quickly. 4.) If the ball is won in the defending 3rd, never boot it aimlessly, play out of the back. 5.) Outside backs, not midfielders provide the width and will cross often and sometimes early. 

Use this advise to set up a Simeone tactic and you should be most of the way there. Simeone's sides never played cautiously or on the counter except for on occasion in the Champions League or maybe in his 1-2 years in La Liga. Rather, they were usually balanced or sometimes even positive, with a lower line of engagement. 

At least thus far in 2019-20, Simeone has evolved. Atleti are no longer inferior to Barca and Real. In fact it's pretty clear that they've surpassed their Madrid rivals in terms of the quality of the first 11. They have a beautiful new stadium that they fill and they have had Champions League money coming in for 7 years, so there's no point in sitting back any longer. They are an elite side and their style of play reflects it. 

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