Overhaul The Regens' Template/Database

[yevinand]

Hi guys, i love playing FM especially when it's in the future (e.g. 7-10 years from original database) where the regens/newgens are beginning to take the football world, the reason i like this type of game is because i love developing those hideous looking kids into some WC players if they have the talents needed, or in this case, sufficient Potential Ability.

But somehow until FM 17, the "template" (i don't know how to call it) used to generate all the random numbers so the regens have their related attributes when they're appearing on the youth intake day so they can be perceived on their natural position, well the "template" is kinda obsolete and does not represent/recreate the original database and (it's always been like this since past FM).

Here are the problems i found that need to be addressed:

1. Lack of Natural Inside Forwards (well, "lack" is a bit understated, maybe "rare" is the correct term): 9 of 10 AMR/AML regens is a Classic Winger, the right footed on the right and vice versa with their Classic Winger stats as well (RUN, CROSS, RUN) so the chance that they can be retrained to the opposite flank is not so good because they can't shoot the ball, it's better to retrain some fast strikers to Inside Forward role, i mean, most of the teams in the world no longer/rarely use the Classic Winger on their attack, we all know 2 of the GOAT right now are Inside forwards and other WC players like Hazard, Neymar, Alexis, so please do update on this AMR/AML newgens because i feel a bit annoyed if i found a WC potential AML/AMR regens who's only good at crossing and running but ***** at direct penetrating.

2. Lack of Natural Wing Backs: Still related to No. 1, because of the Classic Winger role is considered as not-so modern role, the duty of winger to cross the ball from wide is now become the usual work of the full backs (on the Wing Back role in the game), so the IF will cuts inside, then the Fullback bombs forward to provide width and anticipate to cross the ball from out wide, the problem is the full back regens generated in the game are MOSTLY a Classic Full Back, most of them have ridiculously low attributes on dribbling, crossing, quickness because they are born to be classic full back who always stays at the back and try to clear the ball, and if somehow a FB regens who have potential to be WC player then it's absolutely disappointing since they'll eventually have only fairly decent attributes of a modern wing back and will never be a great attacking full back like Marcelo or Dani Alves.

3. Lack of Central Defenders who can pass: The central defenders are no longer an ultra defensive unit in the team, right now the central defenders considered as a first line in the build up play, but in the game, it's more of the same like issue number 2, most of the CD regens is a Classic CD who have very low attributes on passing, first touch, and even lower on technique, THAT is NOT how modern defender play, they need to be all-rounded, not just tall and strong.

4. Too many player who has great potential gonna choke on big games): This is the issue that make me realize that i have to play god by using FMRTE because of the Important Matches Attributes are frustratingly low on some great regens, and this is painfully disturbing because if you have some Messi-esque regen who regularly bang goals in the league but he'll never score or have low match rating when he is playing a derby or some final stages, i get it that not all player can handle pressure of a derby day, but come on, i've seen in the FMRTE that way too many players who have potential ability above 160 only have 5-7 important match attribute, and you should know that this attributes is fixed and won't improve.

5. Too many Inconsistent but somehow talented players.

6. All Regens only have 1 natural positions.

Maybe you're thinking that i'm just don't understand the basic principle of statistics, the normal curve or stuff, but when i said too many, then it's true, that "too many" is another form of "It shouldn't be too many". And go find yourself about this issues, use FMRTE or Genie Scout, i know that i'm not alone in this because i've read the few same threads on the bugs forum but never got the proper attention. Heck, even there were a guy who do statistical research on that low important matches attributes and he compared the regen on his database with the original database and find out that the "template" needs to be revamped. 

And yeah, i know that Training in the game can change one or two things above, but it won't help much, i assure you that.

So that's all what i've found, and i get it that not every player is the same, but i just want the regens to be accurately depicts the real-life modern football, and i believe that most of the FM players doesn't want to have a team full of great players but can only do 1990-ish playing style.

[ilkork]

Agree to everything!
 

1 hour ago, yevinand said:

Heck, even there were a guy who do statistical research on that low important matches attributes and he compared the regen on his database with the original database and find out that the "template" needs to be revamped.

do you know how many times I tried to enlighten the people? Check this and all the posts from FmPeace that follow this (yes, FmPeace was my alias, the staff know about it, was banned, old story).

Mate I'm sorry to say this, but don't expect any major improvements. To them, "everything's fine".
The newgen attribute templates are at least 75% different than the original players attribute templates. But no, to them it's "diversity that improves experience"...
I tried to improve the situation with this, but eventually got banned again for "abusing the staff" and lost all interest in that experiment.

[rimisark]

Agree.

Аnd strikers (talented) with low work rate, teamwork and vision.

[Jaffa]

Agree with this, I've found regen quality to be poor, especially in England for some bizarre reason

[Schmidy]

Maybe, as a suggestion, SI should consider creating a somewhat basic "template" that looks at the player's position and preferred role, before creating their skills by looking at the preferred roles Primary skills, Secondary skills and then the rest of the skills.

Based on the players CA/PA, the skills will fill in starting with Primary skills, Secondary skills and then the rest. Now, you can't expect all players to be perfect so an out and out winger might have 16 dribbling but only 12 crossing, however, he has an exceptional first touch and so that is 17. The player could then have a PPM that suits something along those lines... okay not the greatest of examples, but I hope it makes sense.

This being said, they could already have this sort of "template" in place which means it might need some small tweaks here and there.

[Schmidy]

27 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

Agree with this, I've found regen quality to be poor, especially in England for some bizarre reason

Are you talking about your club, or are you talking in general throughout England?

[ilkork]

8 minutes ago, Schmidy said:

This being said, they could already have this sort of "template" in place which means it might need some small tweaks here and there.

They say that they do have templates. Even the pre-game editor has "Fill in attributes based on role" or something like that.
And I'm like this ---> , cause their templates are awful.

[Schmidy]

11 minutes ago, ilkork said:

They say that they do have templates. Even the pre-game editor has "Fill in attributes based on role" or something like that.
And I'm like this ---> , cause their templates are awful.

haha, I haven't looked at the database at all this year... going to have to go take a look now

[ilkork]

1 minute ago, Schmidy said:

haha, I haven't looked at the database at all this year... going to have to go take a look now

Well, don't waste your time, they don't show the attribute distribution (% or something like that).
You only get to see the end result once you play the game.

These templates are for players who have 0's pre-game (and I guess they use the same templates for the newgens). You know.
You can have a look here cause I did some comparisons.

[Schmidy]

7 minutes ago, ilkork said:

Well, don't waste your time, they don't show the attribute distribution (% or something like that).
You only get to see the end result once you play the game.

These templates are for players who have 0's pre-game (and I guess they use the same templates for the newgens). You know.
 

1

I see that, I can understand why it's created like that... but it's annoying knowing that you have to start a game know what range those attributes will be.

[yevinand]

17 hours ago, ilkork said:

Agree to everything!
 

do you know how many times I tried to enlighten the people? Check this and all the posts from FmPeace that follow this (yes, FmPeace was my alias, the staff know about it, was banned, old story).

Mate I'm sorry to say this, but don't expect any major improvements. To them, "everything's fine".
The newgen attribute templates are at least 75% different than the original players attribute templates. But no, to them it's "diversity that improves experience"...
I tried to improve the situation with this, but eventually got banned again for "abusing the staff" and lost all interest in that experiment.

Well hello stats guy

I'm still hoping that there will be changes in FM18 regarding this issue tbh

Maybe people are often overlook this kind of thing in the game because they don't pay attention enough to the numbers, kind of ironic considering FM is essentially a statistical simulation game.

[yevinand]

16 hours ago, rimisark said:

Agree.

Аnd strikers (talented) with low work rate, teamwork and vision.

I forgot that! and that is not quite good too because the complete forward-type or false nine will be rare in the game's future because most of the regen ST are either target man, poacher, or defensive forward.

And most of them are poorly rated in passing.

[yevinand]

11 hours ago, Jaffa said:

Agree with this, I've found regen quality to be poor, especially in England for some bizarre reason

Fun Fact: in FM17 United will always have the best regen in England who gonna end up in reserves with their potential wasted because United always have 1-2 big transfers every summer

[yevinand]

11 hours ago, Schmidy said:

Maybe, as a suggestion, SI should consider creating a somewhat basic "template" that looks at the player's position and preferred role, before creating their skills by looking at the preferred roles Primary skills, Secondary skills and then the rest of the skills.

Based on the players CA/PA, the skills will fill in starting with Primary skills, Secondary skills and then the rest. Now, you can't expect all players to be perfect so an out and out winger might have 16 dribbling but only 12 crossing, however, he has an exceptional first touch and so that is 17. The player could then have a PPM that suits something along those lines... okay not the greatest of examples, but I hope it makes sense.

This being said, they could already have this sort of "template" in place which means it might need some small tweaks here and there.

Couldn't agree more with this.

Especially the mental attributes, i just realize that even any best regen, example: a defender regen is compared with a real life defender who's only decent or fairly good then the regen is easily have the worse mental like lower aggression, concentration, and/or composure.

All the regens in the game only have upper hand on physical attributes than their real life counterparts, and that is kind of useless because strong players will easily get outsmarted by more creative and mentally-able players.

[Schmidy]

Something that could possibly combat the "poor" mental attributes is how they improve. They do improve over time, but should a youth player be part of the Senior squad (so actually in the First team Squad), training with the first team and being around the experienced players should see their attributes improve a lot quicker than those who are in the u18/19/20 (in their respective leagues). If players start to play for the u23/Reserve squads then they should get a boost based on the players they play with.

Again, this could be in the game. I have mostly only played a Gibraltar game and so my u19's and Reserve squads aren't great. I haven't had many players coming through either. Most players are bought at a young age and so are already established.

[Cint]

I support the idea. I think it could be resolved by simply by addting in staff descriptions "prefered roles" to prefered tactics, etc. That would influence many aspects of game engine. First of all managers will seek to buy players who suit their prefered roles, making their tactics more effective. Secondly, for youth coordinators they will generate players mostly for their prefered roles, which will resolve the problem that author described.  For scouts this could work as an area of expertise (they would recommend players mainly for their prefered postions). Coaches would be most effective in training attributes connected with their prefered roles, etc.

[tajj7]

Yeh agree from what I've found, very rare to find a regen who you don't have to mould A LOT to actually be useful and they still have many weaknesses. 

it should all be linked, or at least should be influenced by club, the staff, how they play etc.  Because these players IRL will be training with the clubs from the ages of 8 or 9, I can't see say Arsenal who play technical possession based style of football and likely IRL replicate this throughout their youth teams, produce a Wes Morgan like limited defender. 

I know Southampton IRL very specifically have all their youth teams playing the same formation and in a similar way to the first team and focus a lot on technical attributes, passing, movement etc. rather than physicality. You should be able to instill this sort of template onto your teams and see it reflected in your regens, if your U18s play with wingbacks then some wingbacks should come through etc. 

 

[Neil Brock]

Reviewed so locked.