Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hey, everyone. Quick question - but felt the answer might benefit everyone so set it up as a thread - is there still a Target Man mechanism within the match-engine causing players with a TM role to attract the ball, similar to a playmaker? I remember years ago we used to select designated Target Men or tick a box and they'd attract the ball more. Not sure if that is still the case. Obviously assuming no other changes, in terms of the player, team around him or any other tactical tweaks literally just will a Target Man (Support / Attack) attract the ball more than a role with identical PIs, the only difference being not a designated "Target Man"? Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Hey, everyone. Quick question - but felt the answer might benefit everyone so set it up as a thread - is there still a Target Man mechanism within the match-engine causing players with a TM role to attract the ball, similar to a playmaker? I remember years ago we used to select designated Target Men or tick a box and they'd attract the ball more. Not sure if that is still the case. Obviously assuming no other changes, in terms of the player, team around him or any other tactical tweaks literally just will a Target Man (Support / Attack) attract the ball more than a role with identical PIs, the only difference being not a designated "Target Man"? Cheers. Yes- the targetman role still attracts the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 30 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said: Yes- the targetman role still attracts the ball. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlaaZ Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just to pick up on this, does it encourage long hauls up to the targetman or will players just be more likely to play the ball to him (not necessarily through a long ball)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, KlaaZ said: Just to pick up on this, does it encourage long hauls up to the targetman or will players just be more likely to play the ball to him (not necessarily through a long ball)? Yes it does, and I think the best way to see this is watch your GK distribution. Even if you have him set to distribute to backs, short passing, less risky passes, he will still often lump it forward to the targetman. There are things you can do to limit the times this happens, but it will still happen at times no matter what you do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Yeah, you'll often see these lumps toward the target man when they run out of options, so it's an 'out' ball to play. Not that it is exclusively how a target man will be used though. He'll also be the target when crossing etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Out of interest - is there anywhere we can find a comprehensive list of the mechanisms in the match engine making certain roles perform differently to typical roles in their position, beyond what's available on the player instructions page? For example, I know of: Playmakers attracting the ball and having higher creative freedom. Certain playmakers prioritised higher than others, observed with AP(A) > DLP(S) Target Man attracting the ball. Defensive Midfielder making the Defensive Line drop deeper. Observed in the Tactics Creator, but not obvious. Half-Back dropping deep between in early phase possession Centre backs spreading wide but only if there is no player in the DR / DL spot. Any others? No need to include things people can observe in the PI screen, as that's easy to see. Example: False 9 has more movement than typical striker roles, because they have Roam From Position hard-coded. Unless, a False 9 has more movement than another striker role with the same mentality and Roam From Position selected. Ball-Winning Midfielder closes down more, because they have closing down hard-coded. Playmaker roles all play differently but differences are clearly observed in changes to their PIs. May be a helpful resource. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: prioritised higher than others, observed with AP(A) > DLP(S) not just between playmakers... id also like to know if a target man supercedes an AP(a) for instance. i.e. if I have a DLP or Reg in DM and an AP in CM and a TM upfront... will the cbs look first for the TM or play through the playmakers as priority who then look for TM. I'd assume/hope TM is top priority ... if I want to play a->b->c->d football I wouldn't employ a TM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue_donym Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 5 hours ago, westy8chimp said: not just between playmakers... id also like to know if a target man supercedes an AP(a) for instance. i.e. if I have a DLP or Reg in DM and an AP in CM and a TM upfront... will the cbs look first for the TM or play through the playmakers as priority who then look for TM. I'd assume/hope TM is top priority ... if I want to play a->b->c->d football I wouldn't employ a TM. I don't know the answer to your question, but if you want to avoid the issue (and you imply that you want to play direct football) why use two playmakers in any event, both of whom will attract the ball? Genuinely curious don't meant to come across as critical/sniping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, sue_donym said: I don't know the answer to your question, but if you want to avoid the issue (and you imply that you want to play direct football) why use two playmakers in any event, both of whom will attract the ball? Genuinely curious don't meant to come across as critical/sniping your point is valid... it's more hypothetical query rather than a formation or style of play im specifically trying to adopt. Let's say AP>TM ... a practical use of this information could be if you play 442 you might still want to employ a TM because TM>DLF for ball attraction your defence will play to AP more than a bbm or cm... and then the AP will play to a TM more than a DLF ... so could be either that the TM is more of a threat or just that you want the second striker to make runs beyond the TM and receive flick ons etc... whereas if its confirmed a TM>AP for ball attraction yet you do want to play through midfield rather than direct... you would then not want to use TM at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I don't know that there has ever has been a list like that, and I honestly don't think the Devs would ever release that sort of information (or ever have). It's one of those mysteries of the ME that can only really be solved by hundreds of hours of observation and with a tight control of the variables, which without developer tools is probably nigh on impossible to do. It does appear that the TM is prioritized over the playmaker when one is used, but again, without being able to control for all the dozens and dozens of variables at play, I don't know that it can ever be a definitive statement. My belief about that is anecdotal, but I will also note that if you use an AP, then you also reduce the number of balls lumped toward the target man. It is possible to play through the middle with a targetman depending on how you are setup, but he will get more balls aimed toward him than you might want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 makes sense... and all part and parcel of trying different tweaks ... thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 10 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Out of interest - is there anywhere we can find a comprehensive list of the mechanisms in the match engine making certain roles perform differently to typical roles in their position, beyond what's available on the player instructions page? For example, I know of: Playmakers attracting the ball and having higher creative freedom. Certain playmakers prioritised higher than others, observed with AP(A) > DLP(S) Target Man attracting the ball. Defensive Midfielder making the Defensive Line drop deeper. Observed in the Tactics Creator, but not obvious. Half-Back dropping deep between in early phase possession Centre backs spreading wide but only if there is no player in the DR / DL spot. Any others? No need to include things people can observe in the PI screen, as that's easy to see. Example: False 9 has more movement than typical striker roles, because they have Roam From Position hard-coded. Unless, a False 9 has more movement than another striker role with the same mentality and Roam From Position selected. Ball-Winning Midfielder closes down more, because they have closing down hard-coded. Playmaker roles all play differently but differences are clearly observed in changes to their PIs. May be a helpful resource. I can categorically tell you that there is no priority system in the game for playmakers. This has been verified by the developers when I asked them. Playmakers work together and share the load but there isn't any thing in the game that prioritises one over another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I've noticed the opposition will man mark your playmaker (s) usually in the second half. When I use two playmakers in the MC strata against 442, the AI will man-mark my playmakers with their MR and ML. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Rashidi said: I can categorically tell you that there is no priority system in the game for playmakers. This has been verified by the developers when I asked them. Playmakers work together and share the load but there isn't any thing in the game that prioritises one over another. Useful to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomit Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It's just such a shame that you can't make a striker with the instructions of a TM, but without this ball-magnet mechanic. The nearest would be a DLF, but not quite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPalma Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 On 09/03/2017 at 09:28, westy8chimp said: not just between playmakers... id also like to know if a target man supercedes an AP(a) for instance. i.e. if I have a DLP or Reg in DM and an AP in CM and a TM upfront... will the cbs look first for the TM or play through the playmakers as priority who then look for TM. I'd assume/hope TM is top priority ... if I want to play a->b->c->d football I wouldn't employ a TM. hey guys! i dont know what happens in theory, i just observed what was happening in my game. I had my GK using shorter passes as well as less risky ones so i could have a solid construction from the back, then the idea was to accelerate the game using midfielders with long and/or more risky passes to a winger, raumdeuter or target man. What i noticed was that mainly in the goal kicks (but also, to some extent, when he secured the ball and started an attack), my GK would always use a long pass towards the TM, ignoring my roaming playmaker (this role given to a DM, so id expect with him nearer the area the goalie wouldnt be a asshole and give away possession like that), so much that i had to change from TM to CF... With the CB's that didnt happen, they usually passed to the roaming playmaker unless there was space on the flanks, then theyd bypass the midfield to send the ball to the winger or raumdeuter (but i have "explore the flanks" or something on the TI, so its not surprizing) Hope this is helpful! (and i apologize if my explanation isnt very clear, my english is very rusty these days any doubts please ask!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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