heartandgroin Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Got to say this is a very solid tactic. Got off to a dream start on my Villa save! Ayew is tearing it up in the CF role. Grealish is just starting to tick now in the AML postion. Good work mate indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Credit where credits due. This set of tactics works very well. Really like how the midfield and inside forwards work in the base. Rmd on one side can be very good as well! The change of roles and duties in the attack and defence versions offer good plan b and c. Messing around with TIs depending on match situation is also interesting. All round very good and works very well and keeps the interest. Nice job and thank you for posting. Deserves more attention. Thank you, sir. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 First of all thank you burnum for this tactics, I was one toe away to give up on FM16 and turn back on my gameboy colour.... I started a new save with FC Zurich (swiss team) so I dont got any Messi, Ronaldo or Neymar but it still works very well. The Base tactic is great but in my eyes the Attack tactic works even greater, and the tactic familiarity still aint fluid !!!!!!!!!! I use the Base tactic with a Raumdeuter on the right wing, when my right winger is right footed and it works very good. I dont know why but my right side (right winger, right defender) mostly gets better ratings then the ones on the left. The next change I do is the striker roles (target man type of striker = advanced striker, false 9 type of striker = deep dying foward (S)) and i'm sure that 'move into channels' is on. When I use the Attack tactic I dont change nothing but the striker roles! Since I know that sky aint the limit cause there are footsteps on the moon, there is always something to upgrade.. there are 3 little points I noticed and I need your advise! - My main striker is struggling to score (5 games, 1 goal in the league) my wingers are the ones who score especially the right winger! - Against certain formations my defender are struggling to defend, my goalkeeper saves unbelievable things - We permanently get yellow cards (5 games, 13 yellow cards in the league) what I'm not very happy with it... And do you use any Team Talks during matches (Encourage, Push Foward, Concentrate)? Sorry for the late response, I've been away all weekend. As for your 3 questions/suggestions: 1) Get a striker who scores. I've tried a lot of guys, some work, some don't. This is one of the most important positions for these tactics, so don't be cheap here. My striker is usually my best scorer now. 2) Yes, there are some formations that can be pretty hard to defend with this set. No tactics are perfect for all situations/purposes and this set of tactics is no exception. My only advice would be to recognise which opposing formations you're struggling with and try some changes for those games. 3) 13 yellows in 5 games is an average of 2.6 per game. The average in German Bundesliga this season is 1.9 per game, so you're correct - the amount of yellow cards is slightly high. Personally, I tend to sub players who are booked at halftime if the situation allows it, especially if they're defensive players. This could be something I'll have to take a look at for future versions (if there's ever another patch). As for team talks - I always let my AssMan do the talking. I know there are some guys who think it's an important part of the game and you absolutely have to do it yourself. Personally, I think FM is so deep these days that you can't do it all if you want your game to advance at a good speed, so there are just some aspects of the game that I leave to my AssMan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ingersoll Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 have to say.. I decided to give this a try with Bournemouth. added three guys and the results so far are impressive. im not just winning, im winning big. its still early so wont get carried away but if anyone is using this and they need a winger... check into getting richie from Bournemouth. going in he was the one i wanted to replace but so far he is outplaying Gradel by a ton. in 4 matches has a rating over 8.0 and has 7 goals. But i know its early so i will monitor it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyBroadband Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 burnum this has been my favourite tactic for FM16, definitely. Fingers crossed it doesn't get hit too much in the next update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Hi, been using this tactic and have been very impressed. I'm Boro and doing great in the league - couple of changes I've made to the base tactic defensively , I've changed one CD to cover , found that I was getting done by through balls and also changed the sweeper keeper to attack for the same reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Sweeper Keeper to Attack seems reasonable. I also used him in that role with Neuer when playing with FC Bayern. But there just aren't too many keepers who are good as SK(a), most keepers in the game seem to be better in more a traditional keeper role. As for changing a CD to cover, I think it contradicts playing the offside trap (everyone needs to be in one line for the offside trap). So if you change a CD to cover you'll probably also want to turn offside trap off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yeah fair point, offside wasn't cutting it but that's due bro my poor defenders. How's the tactic performing for you with the new patch? I seemed to really dip in form, but sure if that's a coincidence or the ME fixes have something to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 In the new patch there aren't any ME updates outside of some tweaks to throw-ins and penalties, so tactics that worked under 16.2 should also work under 16.3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akuji2012 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 can confirm tactics are still working. won play off and play off final since patch and doing well in league. may I say tho the defensive tactic is brilliant and can win every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyPass Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Still working for me too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyBroadband Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Just to say; it is still working wonders in 16.3 for me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akuji2012 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 prefer the original attacking tactic to the new one, with the old one, u always score one more goal. ok even if u need more its good. with the new attacking tactic I concede too many Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ingersoll Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 seems to be working great. i used it for the entire season with Palermo and won series A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I gave up far too easy on this tactic I think. I've re read the whole thread a couple of times and made some notes. I've been sacked in my game and took over Rotherham who have just finished 24th in the championship, 26 points off safety with 6 games won all season. No one will drop down to League 1. Every single continue is another player moaning. Anyway, I'm really gonna give it a go this tactic. If i get stuck I'll be on here asking for advice instead of switching to a different tactic. Wish me luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 burnum - quick question - what should I have general training on? I have my match prep on tactics, should I also put the general training on tactical too? This is during pre season. I saw your notes saying about having 50% match training. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 burnum - quick question - what should I have general training on? I have my match prep on tactics, should I also put the general training on tactical too? This is during pre season. I saw your notes saying about having 50% match training.Thanks General training affects player development, it doesn't affect tactics as far as I know. Anyway, I usually set general training to Fitness for the first 2 weeks in preseason, then to Cohesion for the rest of preseason and switch to Balanced once the season starts. No idea if that's good/perfect but it works for me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Thanks for the response burnum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisandroo Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Hello Burnum, I could spend the link to the latest version of your tactics. Since I wanted to download and when put, instead of being passed 4-3-3 4-2-3-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisandroo Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Hello Burnum, I could spend the link to the latest version of your tactics, as the Download and when I put on my computer instead of the same form 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 shape Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisandroo Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sorry for my English, because habo not had to use the Google translator Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 All the latest links can be found in post #131. Also, the opening post gives you all the information you'll need for this set of tactics to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I thought I'd update you with how my season is going with Rotherham United in League One. In my managerial career so far, I lasted nine months in the job at Newcastle (sounds familiar Steve?) before I was sacked with four games remaining. I was in the relegation zone when I left and to be fair, the person who replaced me got 3 wins from the remaining 4 games to preserve their status. I was offered a couple of jobs in the Scottish Championship but decided to move to The New York Stadium where Rotherham had just been relegated to League 1. They endured a miserable season in the Championship, conceding over 80 goals and managing just 6 wins all season (bizarrely this included doing the double over Middlesbrough who made the playoffs). Anyway, I dealt with inflighting, most of the squad wanting to leave. It seemed that every time I pressed 'continue' someone was complaining. I decided to give burnum's tactic a go, paying particular attention to what was needed in each position, reverting to defensive when holding onto a lead, pushing for a goal if required etc. This is how I stand a third of the way through the season. This is where I was predicted to finish so I'm doing what is expected of me. I have been using the base tactic all the way through the season and tinkering with the team after 70 minutes as per the OP's suggestions. I'm focusing on attacking movement when I play a team who were predicted to finish lower than half way and teamwork when playing anyone else. As you can see, I'm not fluent yet in any of the tactics so I should improve even more. What I have done though in this save (something I don't normally do) is choose players specifically from the loan market for their role according to the tactic. The days of trying to fit a tactic around the players is long gone. Perhaps I need to look at the backroom staff though as after a total of perhaps 25 games, this tactic really ought to be fluent. I'm not losing any sleep over it though. Here are some team stats for you to look at. I love how much I dominate possession in this game. Possession is normally around the 55-60% mark. Over 300 more passes than my nearest competitor. I even managed to hold onto the ball more than a PL team. This was at the start of the season too. I lost due to a mix up at the back from a corner. If you look at the stats though, we matched them effort for effort. Here are some player stats. I would say it's definitely important to have some players with good passing skills in the midfield and all areas if you can. I understand that you have to offset weaknesses but I'd advise passing ability (as well as First Touch and Technique, as burnum suggests) I have noticed how many penalties I get awarded using this tactic? Maybe it's a result of the slick passing and players diving in from the opposition. Ledesma has scored 5 penalties this season and we're only a third into the season. Last point I'll make is that if you're thinking it's no use trying to change player instructions, team instructions when chasing a game, trust me it works! During my last 5 games I have picked up 9 points from 15. It could have been ALOT worse though as I've pulled back points from losing positions. It's took me a long time to figure how to attach images in my post but I think I've sorted it! Thanks for reading Update - Ledesma scoring his 7th penalty of the season... UPDATE: Rotherham just pulled off a giant killing act beating Premier League Southampton in their own back yard. I used the 4-3-3 base tactic, prepared on defensive positioning before the match in training. With 15 minutes left I protected the lead just as burnum suggests and Southampton didn't even get a sniff. Great tactic so far! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Glad to see the tactic works for you. Keep us updated... Personally, I don't have a lot of time to play FM at the moment (job related), so reading some of the other guys stories is a good alternative before finally getting back to the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Well my reward was a 4th round game at home to United. Sell out stadium, probably full of Man Utd fans. We lost 1-0 but if it wasn't for De Gea, we would have earned a replay. Still, bodes well for the future. 2/3s through the season - comfortable in front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 CHAMPIONS! THREE GAMES TO GO! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBoss Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 This is an amazing tactic I find with many possession tactics people post there's just a lot of pointless possession, keeping the ball for the sake of it and very little chances are created but with his one it's possession with a purpose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollackattack Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 who do i remove with a red? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 When I've had a red, I have removed the CF pollackattack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 who do i remove with a red? Depends on the situation. When you're ahead, trying to defend the lead, remove the striker. When you're in need of a goal remove the DLP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollackattack Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 could you also be more descriptive about the requirements for the DLP? I use Toni Kroos there testing the tactic with Real Madrid, he seems good for it. Not physical like you said but great mentals and technical stats. Not getting very high ratings, just solid around a 7 or just below most games. I expected more from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Hey guys. Any of you who have followed this thread know that I've had some success with it. I thought I'd share my season so far with you. If you take a look at one of my first posts I showed you where Rotherham finished in the Championship 2 seasons ago. Basically, 26 points after 46 games. Relegated by March/April I took them back up using burnums tactic and I've just pushed past the 26 point mark and we aren't at the end of the season. Give this tactic a go if you haven't so far. Up the Millers! rn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 could you also be more descriptive about the requirements for the DLP? I use Toni Kroos there testing the tactic with Real Madrid, he seems good for it. Not physical like you said but great mentals and technical stats. Not getting very high ratings, just solid around a 7 or just below most games. I expected more from that. Kroos would be a perfect fit for the AP role in my opinion. If you play as Real Madrid you could just bring someone in for the DLP position, as the only weakness of their squad is (in my opinion) that it lacks a true defensive-minded MC (aside from that young Brazilian who simply isn't good enough). The DLP is basically a DMC playing in the MC position. He needs good passing skills (as well as first touch & technique) and also good mental stats (decisions, work rate, teamwork) but he'll also need some defensive skills (positioning, marking, tackling) and that's what Kroos is lacking in my opinion. A signing I can really recommend for that position is Richy Bazoer from Ajax. He can develop into a world-class player and is equally good at the DLP and B2B positions (the same could be said about Arturo Vidal). You could also use a DMC and develop him into a MC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosEsDios Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 So I thought I'd give you an update, particularly for burnum as to how my save has gone on my return to the championship. With a few games of the season to go I'm sitting comfortably in midtable in 12th. Ok pretty satisfactory you might think. Take a look at my home/away form. That's right - I'm top of the home league table. 2 losses in 19 games. So you know what that means about the bottom.... I don't know how to rectify this... I've tried a combination of all three tactics, done some positional tweaking, played players with high morale etc. It's been 10 games since I've won a game on the road. The majority of games I've lost by the odd goal. Any suggestions? I actually think it might be because my players aren't quite good enough to get into the top 6. After all, they are mostly the same players from League One last year. What's really frustrating is that the board have scrapped my youth set ups, I'm constantly at a capacity of 12k per match so i can't even furnish my own money to buy better players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysrovers Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have a pretty good home record but a shocking away record, also dont know how to rectify it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBoss Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have a pretty good home record but a shocking away record, also dont know how to rectify it This actually happened with me too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescefesso Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 i can say that the main tactic (the base one) drop down after 16.3 especially away. i really cant have same results that i have in 16.2. is strange because the match engine didnt change. is a big mistery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 i can say that the main tactic (the base one) drop down after 16.3 especially away. i really cant have same results that i have in 16.2. is strange because the match engine didnt change. is a big mistery. Sorry to hear that but I'm 100 percent sure that your recent drop in results must have other reasons than the tactic. The ME wasn't changed (aside from throw-ins and penalty logic) and many people already confirmed that it still works in 16.3 - so far you seem to be the only one to have problems under the recent patch. For me (and also a lot of other users here) it still works pretty well under 16.3... This isn't CM 01/02 anymore - the tactical side of the game is no longer THE most defining factor in winning or losing. All the other aspects of the game have become equally important over the years and there's no simple "diablo-win-it-all" tactics anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescefesso Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 probably right. keep trying with the base. is the style i love. tank's burnum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
volldergeier Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 just having an insane unbeaten run with this tactic in my first season with Dortmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loisvale Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Burnum These two tactics are really terrific and have been great fun to play around with. I would be very interested in your views in setting up a counter-attack version of the 433 standard. I think with the very top teams the defensive set is not particularly needed but occasionally against top-class opposition a powerful counter-attack would be welcome. I was thinking of dropping the DLP into the DM strata and changing into an anchorman. Changing the wing backs and AP to supporting roles and changing the team instructions to merely, pass into space, play out of defence and tighter marking. Not quite decided if the striker role is to change. I would keep the player instructions you have already provided in order to keep the style. Would you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 BurnumThese two tactics are really terrific and have been great fun to play around with. I would be very interested in your views in setting up a counter-attack version of the 433 standard. I think with the very top teams the defensive set is not particularly needed but occasionally against top-class opposition a powerful counter-attack would be welcome. I was thinking of dropping the DLP into the DM strata and changing into an anchorman. Changing the wing backs and AP to supporting roles and changing the team instructions to merely, pass into space, play out of defence and tighter marking. Not quite decided if the striker role is to change. I would keep the player instructions you have already provided in order to keep the style. Would you think? Feel free to give it a try... I'll keep the 3 versions from my tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loisvale Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Fair enough. I'll let you know if it's any good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imchrisjones Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Put this into my Brighton save where I was struggling big time - won 2 of my last 3 league games and went to the death in a cup game away at Southampton after missing a few sitters too. I'll use this for the season definitely, great work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhansen Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Does these tactics still works? If so, what's the latest versions of them? Are they in the OP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imchrisjones Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Does these tactics still works? If so, what's the latest versions of them? Are they in the OP? Base tactic definitely still works, drew at home to united, beat arsenal 5-0 and liverpool 1-0 away. The attacking one may need a few tweaks though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ingersoll Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 i use it, never had any issues, in my first season with Bournemouth i finished 3rd in the league and won the capital one cup with only one player brought in and that was stocker from hertha due to gradel being injured Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imchrisjones Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Using this one my Wigan save, it's still very good. Leaking a few goals though (had a few 2-2 draws) but some of the goals have been screamers tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabs Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Tactic was brilliant in Premier League, La Liga, international and even lower belgian division. But since I've tried it with Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, I can't seem to beat any of the clubs who play 4-4-1-1. I'm usually the better team, have the better chances yet they get me on the counter, set piece or the killer cross. Seriously, it's as if it's unbeatable. Oh and goalkeepers are averageing 7.5 against me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Does these tactics still works? If so, what's the latest versions of them? Are they in the OP? Yes, it still works. Everything you need can be found in post #131 and the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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