4-3-3 Bayern Style - High Possession & Pressing

[burnum]

I have initially designed these tactics to work with FC Bayern. However, after some testing and tweaking I realized they also work for smaller teams, as I have successfully led Brentford to the Premier League and then into the Euro League with these exact tactics.

I've adapted the corner setup from MagicNut - credit to him for that.

Basics:

We use a 4-3-3 shape with the 3 midfielders in one line, as opposed to using the DMC or AMC positions. This enables our midfield to get more width to defend against opposing fullbacks. We use a high defensive line, so make sure you have good and pacey centre-halves. In attack, the wingbacks provide crosses, the IFs create havoc and the striker should get a lot of easy goals.

The tactic usually gets you at least 60% possession and creates a lot of CCC. It will work well against equal or lesser opponents, probably also against slightly better opponents. However, due to its reliance on possession and pressing it can struggle against teams that are a lot better than your team.

Tactics:

Results with Bayern (one season test save):

Results with Brentford (career save):

1st season: Won Championship, gained promotion to Premier League

2nd season: Finished 5th in Premier League, qualified for Europa League

3rd season: Finished 4th in Premier League, qualified for Champions League, won Europa League & FA Cup

4th season: Finished 2nd in the Premier League, won the League Cup

Team Talks & Opposition Instructions:

I leave team talk to my assistant (make sure he has high motivation skills if you do this as well).

No OI - never!

Training:

In pre-season 50% match training, focussing to get the tactics fluent as quickly as possible (use the tactic in all 3 slots). When tactics are fluent I usually change to 30% match training. I switch the focus between 'attacking movement' and 'defensive positioning', based on the upcoming opponent (attack when I play a weaker or even side, defense when I play a stronger side). If you have good defenders you can always train 'attacking movement' once the tactic is fully fluent.

Positional Preferences:

GK: Just use your best possible GK, if you can choose it's a nice bonus to have a Sweeper GK, as our D-Line plays quite high.

Wingbacks: pace/acc is vital; they need to be decent crossers and have solid positioning & tackling; make sure you have a left-footed player at DL and a right-footed player at DR - David Alaba is a role model for your DL.

Centrebacks: In a perfect world you use a BPD with good passing skills and a standard CB. If you don't have a technical sound BPD you can also use two CD. Just use any good centre-half, premium should be placed on pace/acc as they have to cover a lot of ground due to our high D-Line.

DLP: Basically a Regista-type DMC in the MC position. Doesn't need huge physical stats but he needs good technical & mental stats - think Xabi Alonso or Andrea Pirlo

BBM: Needs to be a workhorse with good passing & off the ball skills. Steven Gerrard in his prime would've been perfect in this role.

AP: He's the creative mind of the team. Needs good passing and some finishing skills. This is basically an AMC playing in a MC position.

Inside Forwards: Need to be speedy with good technical & finishing skills. The PPM 'Cuts Inside' is your friend here. Also it helps if they have 'inverted feet' (right-footed player at AML, left-footed player at AMR). Robben & Ribery have played these roles to perfection in the last 5 years. Depending on your squad you could also change one of the IFs to Raumdeuter. I would't do this on both sides though. This works especially well if you play against a very defensive formation.

CF: Here it's really up to your personal preference. I've had success with big, towering strikers (Andy Carroll, Phillip Hofmann) but also with quicker or more balanced strikers (Saido Berahino, Jordan Rhodes, Robert Lewandowski). If your striker can't play the CF role you could also change it to AF or DLF but make sure 'Moves Into Channels' is ticked on.

General Preferences:

All players (with the excepion of the CD) need to have good passing skills to fit our short-passing style.

All players should have at least decent skills at Technique and First Touch. You don't want to give away possession and run into a counter-attack because your midfielder stumbles over the ball.

Download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/sjbdzo5cjzvh5gt/4-3-3+Burnum_685D2229-4774-4590-8983-1AD2CF33E5C5.fmf

Update: For an updated version of this tactic (for 16.2) see post #42.

Update II: For an updated version of the attacking version see post #106.

Update III: All the latest versions can be found in post #131.

[burnum]

4-3-3 Bayern Style - High Possession & Pressing

Tactical Tweaks:

If you play a very defensive opponent and can't find any space: untick 'Play Into Space' - no need to try if there's no space anyway.

If you get beaten by long balls over the top: drop defensive line deeper so the space between the centrebacks and the GK is smaller. If you have a GK who is good as a Sweeper Keeper (e.g. Neuer/Horn) you could also change his role to SK(s) or even SK(a).

Crosses: If you have a big, towering striker change to 'Float Crosses', if you have a small, pacey striker change to low or drilled crosses.

When protecting a lead (end of game scenario):

1. Switch mentality to 'Counter' or 'Defensive'

2. Untick 'Play Out Of Defense' and 'Look For Overlap'

3. Change both Wingbacks to support or defense duty, change AP to support duty

4. (optional): Close down less (depending on how opponent plays)

When in need of a goal (end of game scenario):

1. Switch mentality to 'Attacking'

2. Switch to higher tempo

3. Change the striker to an attacking duty

4. (optional): Untick 'Work Ball Into Box'

[Wyer]

I'm going to give it a go.

Losing the love for FM16 and I need a decent tactic.

[Wyer]

Won 1, lost 2.

The win was at Home to Man Utd, then back to back away defeats to Spurs and Liverpool (I'm in the 2nd season as Villa).

[burnum]

Won 1, lost 2.

The win was at Home to Man Utd, then back to back away defeats to Spurs and Liverpool (I'm in the 2nd season as Villa).

Give it a bit of time until tactics are fluent. Those 3 opponents mentioned are all among the tougher opponents in England. As mentioned in the OP, this tactic is designed to beat lesser or even opponents, it can struggle against opponents who are a lot better than your own team.

[gbaby610]

After a stuttering start to my Newcastle season (2016/17 - second season) I was losing the love for FM16, especially the match engine. In my first season I scraped to a Euro Cup place but didn't feel safe in any game due the match engine and inconsistent tactics. I gave this tactic a go after losing 3 games in 4 in September.

18 games later and it's the midway point in the season. I'm sitting in 4th in The Premier League and I've reached the knockout round in the Euro Cup. In the league, I average the second highest amount of possession and the highest pass completion ratio. Had I used this tactic from the beginning of the season, those stats would be even better.

As you can see from the screenhot, I'm doing well but there are inconsistencies, as you would expect from a team like Newcastle performing above expectation. I've no doubt that a strong Champions League team would demolish their league with this tactic. Of the 3 games that I've lost in the league with this tactic, the Chelsea game came off the back of tricky games at City and Spurs as well as a Thursday game against Feyenoord and the players were shattered. The Watford loss shows what can happen when you play a fully rotated team (with an eye on the upcoming Arsenal match) with a slow back four. Finally the Man Utd loss was simply because they were far better in every department; something that you occasionally have to acknowledge! Below are a few screenshots I took during this season at difficult games:

All in all, I think this is a great tactic and it's pretty on the eye too. There are a few inconsistencies and following the above instructions for chasing a game rarely works for me. It can be frustrating against defensive opposition. You absolutely must have quick cb's and wb's or you just get done on the counter all day long but I've still had some success without the ideal players for midfield and attacking positions, indeed with Ayoze Perez as my only fit striker, I changed the striking role to a F9 and he's been on fire. My only grumble is that it relies on the wb's too much. Even with fully fit ones, they usually are down to 65% condition towards the end of the game, meaning they have to be subbed when you're winning by a small margin and trying to hold onto a lead. I have to use 3 lwb and rwbs in my squad to give me enough cover for 3 games a week or they just don't recover!

Most importantly though, this tactic has been the only one that has let me enjoy FM16 so great job!

[burnum]

Glad to hear it's working for you. Keep it up. If you're looking for a quality player have a look at Jairo Riedewald from Ajax (if he's still there in your save). He doesn't come cheap (I got him for around 20M) but is worth every penny IMO. Can play left back or centre back.

[Wyer]

I saw an upturn in results myself.

Ended up finishing 10th, I'm happy with that.

Now I can build around the tactic.

Thanks for the hard work you put in to it

[Wyer]

Been testing your tactic even further.

Its not a tactic that is going to work with a struggling side like Villa.

The players I have bought in prior to starting to use the tactic coupled with the players I've bought to fit the tactic.

Played 11 games in the 3rd season, lost 7 of those with a -12 GD.

GK - Begovic

RB - Richards, CB - Rojo, CB - Padadopoulos, LB - Robertson

That's not a bad def at all.

Thanks for posting the tactic and allowing me to try it out.

[gbaby610]

Isn't Padadopoulos that giant Greek from Schalke? If so, he's slower than me.

[burnum]

A lot of different things can influence the results (as with any tactics). Fluidity of tactics, team morale, injuries, player skills, form can all play a big role. Just because it didn't work well for your Villa side doesn't necessarily mean the tactic doesn't work. As mentioned in the OP, it was initially designed to be used with bigger teams (I designed it using Bayern Munich and went unbeaten with them in an entire Bundesliga season while testing the tactics). Out of curiosity I tried the tactics out with Brentford in the Championship and to my surprise it worked well - not as good as with Bayern but still good enough to get me promoted to the PL and to reach 5th place in the first season in the PL.

It's a key to have speedy defenders and quality Inside Forwards for the tactics to work.

[Wizard boy]

I'm managing Southampton and was close to getting sacked so I tried this and so far 2 wins out of 2 . looked at total passes for last match on prozone and it was 468 which over 200 more than they usually do. Not played any of the big teams with it so I'll see how it does against them but so far so good.

[burnum]

I'm managing Southampton and was close to getting sacked so I tried this and so far 2 wins out of 2 . looked at total passes for last match on prozone and it was 468 which over 200 more than they usually do. Not played any of the big teams with it so I'll see how it does against them but so far so good.

Yes, it's based on short passing and pressing, both of which lead to high possession. Make sure all your players are decent passers (VERY important for the 3 midfielders).

[burnum]

Just finished season 3 of my Brentford save, using this tactic. The results are impressive, to say the least...

I've finished 4th in the Premier League, won the Europa League and won the FA Cup. Really had a great run of form at the end of the season.

[Wizard boy]

Yes, it's based on short passing and pressing, both of which lead to high possession. Make sure all your players are decent passers (VERY important for the 3 midfielders).

I'm pretty sure they're over 16 for passing. One is Kevin prince boateng who has performed best for me this season.

[Wizard boy]

Played quite a few games now with this. Considering I don't have midfielders with high passing like I thought I did I'm in 12th and since I was 19th before I used it I'm happy with it. Giuseppe Rossi was available on a free so offered him a contract. I scouted him and he's not a worthwhile signing but he's way better than what I have. Would he fit this tactic?

[burnum]

He could fit the tactic but I'd rather get someone else as Rossi is really injury prone. For the striker position you really have some flexibility in this tactic, I've had success with both, quicker and bigger strikers. Currently going with Saido Berahino as my starter and Jordan Rhodes as his backup in my Brentford save. What team are you managing?

[leschko]

This works great for my Hammers side!! great tactic, we get more than 60% possession now!

[Wizard boy]

He could fit the tactic but I'd rather get someone else as Rossi is really injury prone. For the striker position you really have some flexibility in this tactic, I've had success with both, quicker and bigger strikers. Currently going with Saido Berahino as my starter and Jordan Rhodes as his backup in my Brentford save. What team are you managing?

Managing Southampton. Got pelle upfront but he's a bit hit and miss. I have jay Rodriguez has left winger and if pelle isn't performing then I'll put jay upfront. Usually bring tadic on for left wing. It's saved me a few times coming from behind to win. I also bought callum Wilson but seems a.bit injury prone too.

[burnum]

This works great for my Hammers side!! great tactic, we get more than 60% possession now!

Good to see it's working for you. If you want to increase possession even more, you could also add 'Retain Possession' in TI. This will increase possession but slow down attacking pace a bit. I usually use it to wear down an opponent when I'm up 2 goals in the second half.

[Wizard boy]

Bony and benteke have been transfer listed but benteke doesn't seem to fit the role and demands high wage.

[burnum]

Bony and benteke have been transfer listed but benteke doesn't seem to fit the role and demands high wage.

Benteke is too much of a classical target man in this game but Bony should fit in perfectly, he's that well rounded, complete striker you want in this tactic. I'd go for him.

[Wizard boy]

Benteke is too much of a classical target man in this game but Bony should fit in perfectly, he's that well rounded, complete striker you want in this tactic. I'd go for him.

Just tried to get him. failed on work permit though and window closed before appeal went through.

[Lucentio]

Hey burnum. Love the tactics. Thanks for spending the time to develop and share the tactic. I have done a little test on a few of the tactics in the forum. Check it out.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/445692-FM16-Comprehensive-Tactics-Comparison-Which-came-out-on-top-!

[adshollier11]

do you think this will work ok with arsenal?

[burnum]

do you think this will work ok with arsenal?

Yes, it should work. Make sure you stick to the instructions in the OP and use Özil in the AP(a) role (retrain him as a MC). Sanchez as one of the IF(s) should be awesome in that role.

[smetje]

Who should take the corners?

[burnum]

Who should take the corners?

Doesn't matter, just use whoever is your best corner taker. Just swap him in the attacking corner setup.

[GR Choke]

so far so good, 6/6 wins all clean sheets!! this is how i wanted me team to play but just couldn't get it right so thank you for sharing this tactic!

[442gaz]

With Spurs won league by 1 point and the Europa in first season works beautifully with them

[burnum]

Great to see it works for you guys...

[Wizard boy]

Wish it would of worked for Southampton. Got sacked. Just didn't have the players needed for it to work. Hopefully next team will have.

[GR Choke]

29 game unbeaten run with the tactic fully fluid

thanks again for this

[Wizard boy]

I've just started managing everton. Was either them or Leicester and everton had better team. Played Liverpool and got spanked 3:1. Against weaker teams im doing ok but what settings do you put it on for the bigger teams?

[burnum]

The start of the first season is usually a grind as tactics are not yet fluent. You'll see some draws or even losses in games you should win. Once the tactic is fluent (usually after 4-6 months) you'll see a noticable improvement in results.

As for playing better teams - you will lose games against teams that are better than you and I think that's ok because, after all, they're BETTER than you. This is not some 'wonder-tactic' that wins you each game without making any changes at all or reacting to the way the opposition plays. You'll usually beat even or lesser teams with this tactic, you'll also surprise the bigger clubs SOMETIMES but there's no guarantee to beat teams that are bigger/better than your team. The player ratings actually matter a lot in this year's game (which I think is a good sign).

[kf2009]

As a newly promoted Tranmere-team from League 2, I struggled in the bottom of League 1.

31 games into the season, and after 6 losses in a row, and a 0-0 draw following that - with a 4-1-4-1 counter-tactic, and firmly in the relegation zone (only 30 points in 31 matches, and behind by 9 points, with 15 matches to go), I decided to try this tactic. Some adjustments were made (i like to have my backs play wider, and shoot less often, as well as I put the AP to "more direct passes").

The result? I more than doubled the average points per game, from less than 1, to 2.0. 9-3-3 for the last 15 games of the season, rounding off with a 5-1 victory in the last round against a team which were battling for relegation with me (i didn't secure the place in League 1 before the last game of the season). I ended up with 60 points, and the first team that got relegated got 58 (!) points! That's the most I've ever seen a team have and still go down. Tightest league I've ever experienced. Anyways.

It should be mentioned that I had almost a perfect squad for this formation, with good players according to the mentioned criterias from the OP.

The three losses I had all came against bad teams. I could probably have prevented them, as most of the goals conceded was due to through balls / slow defenders / high defensive line. All three games I was leading 1-0, so I should probably have been more careful.

Anyways, keep in mind I changed to this tactic for the last third of the season. The team still isn't fluent in it, even with 15 games and 3 months of intensive match tactics training (50%). So I am really looking forward to trying this tactic next season, when I even may use match preparation for defensive / attacking purposes. If i can get my hands on a more speedy defender, I hope it can reach playoffs at least.

[SkyLanD]

any tweaks for 16.2.0 update?

current one works great!

[aurimas]

I had no problem. Played like 10 games and did not see any differences. Should have similar results as in previous version

[PeeDub]

I made one tweak to this tactic you might find useful. In the tactics creator it looks like it plays like a 4-2-3-1 with the B2B and DLP acting as a double pivot and the AP playing up high. But what I discovered is that the B2B plays up higher than the AP even does, and it gives the RWB fewer passing options (although more crossing options) as well as less linkup to the AML. I moved the DLP to be the more central midfielder and the AP to be the left central midfielder, and it plays more like a 4-1-2-2-1. The RWB has more passing options (the DLP is more available) and the AML gets more of the ball.

I also noticed a huuuuuge amount of crosses from the WBs that don't necessarily go anywhere. Depending on your forward, you may want to either select where the crosses go or the style of the crosses. My forward is more of a quick defensive forward type of DLF, so I set the crosses to be either low or whipped (depending on the matchup) and they're much more effective.

Thanks for the base!

[burnum]

any tweaks for 16.2.0 update?

current one works great!

There will be no updates/tweaks for my tactic in the next couple of days. I think it still works very well with the new 16.2 ME, I've just won the French League with Monaco (finishing 8 points clear of PSG, only lost 1 of 38 games). I won't rule out a later update if I spot something that should be improved, but at the moment I still feel confident this tactic can provide great results.

[Wizard boy]

There will be no updates/tweaks for my tactic in the next couple of days. I think it still works very well with the new 16.2 ME, I've just won the French League with Monaco (finishing 8 points clear of PSG, only lost 1 of 38 games). I won't rule out a later update if I spot something that should be improved, but at the moment I still feel confident this tactic can provide great results.

Well i started managing everton halfway through 2017/18 season and finished 15th. following season finished 11th and now 4th using this tactic. although i did have to change it when playing the bigger teams. usually that meant clicking off look to overlap, playing wider, no be more expressive and sometimes click off work ball into box. also finding players that fit into it. one player oliver was a star and i got him free. not sure i could have done it without this tactic so thank you.

[burnum]

Update!!!

Ok, contrary to what I wrote 4 days ago, there is an update for this tactic... PeeDub's tweak (post #39) turned out to be quite helpful, so I implemented it into my tactics (thanks, mate). The DLP(d) now works more as a central defensive midfielder while the BBM(s) and AP(a) both offer support through the centre of the pitch for the WB and IF on their respective sides.

I did some minor tweaks to the tactics as well (most notably changing the striker role from DLP to CF) - these will improve overall results of the tactics at the expense of possession (I think possession is down from around 65% to around 60% in this version but the results are better as we play with more urgency now).

The tactical set consists of 3 versions:

The Base Tactic: I use it in every game. Depending on what I see in-game I'm also not afraid to slightly change some instructions during a game. Example: If my opponent consistently overlaps my left side I might change the DL from Attack to Support or even Defend duty. If I feel my striker is isolated I might switch one or even both of the IFs to Attack duty. Be smart and trust your eyes.

The Defend Tactic: When I'm holding on to a narrow lead I switch to this version for the last 15-20 minutes. I don't recommend to use this version for a full game due to heavy focus on defense.

The Attack Tactic: When in need of a late goal I switch to this version for the last 15-20 minutes. I don't recommend to use this version for a full game due to heavy focus on attack.

It should be noted that the Base version is the absolute centrepiece of these tactics. The other 2 versions are just modified versions, adjusted for specific situations in-game. If you don't want to use all 3 of them you could also just focus on the Base version and make in-game adjustments on your own.

In my test season with Ajax (first season, no transfers) I won the Eredivisie and the Dutch Cup. I also finished 2nd in my Champions League group and only got knocked out by Real Madrid (no shame in that).

Download:

Finally, here are the 3 files:

4-3-3 Base: http://www.mediafire.com/download/v2qutzftou7qqow/4-3-3+Base_2BB3491C-2616-47B1-94EB-85258625750F.fmf

4-3-3 Defend: http://www.mediafire.com/download/3eb6ewiv2b9jh9a/4-3-3+Defend_636390B7-CF55-4677-84C3-DC168D84E767.fmf

4-3-3 Attack: http://www.mediafire.com/download/dnkm2rpr5couz34/4-3-3+Attack_263B6A26-38EC-414E-8F03-716EDCF6B675.fmf

[CarlosEsDios]

Thanks for the update. Perhaps this will help me over the Christmas period!!! Congratulations on the poster who kept Tranmere up in League 1 too!

[burnum]

Just beat rivals PSV 6-1 to start the second season. Tactic works very well on patch 16.2 once it has become fluent.

[pescefesso]

hey burnum..for me still the best tactic..really enjoy play that style of football...sometime problem with defense..

[burnum]

Thanks for the nice words. Happy Christmas!

[vamp]

i starting the use these tactics in a new game with my bayern works like a charm cant upload any screenshots sry

:applause::applause::applause:

[vamp]

[/img]

[vamp]

[/img]

[vamp]

[/img]