Barnet 4-3-3

[ajw10]

Bit of background behind the point of this thread. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/374982-Tactics-Luck-Bugged-All-Three-Game-feels-utterly-random.

Here's my tactic.

Player instructions are down to a minimum, I've got my inside forward running with the ball more as I want him running from deep and cutting in (which he does very well). I also have my attacking players shooting less as the board want me to play possession football and long range shooting has always been awful on FM games.

As you can see I'm second and I've achieved back to back promotions so things are going well but recently our form has dipped. The thread I've linked to shows me dominating games yet my previously reliable striker missing easy chances and we're mostly conceding from set pieces and long range efforts. I am still of the belief that there's more to it than tactics, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

So yeah, what's wrong?

[daylight]

Can you maybe add a steam screenshot as it is quite hard to see the teams settings.

[Cleon]

You've not linked to any thread so I can't see this dominance you speak of. You've not really shown anything to illustrate the issues you have or anything and without this it will be hard to offer advice because you lack any kind of detail in the post.

[RTHerringbone]

Before looking at the Roles and Duties, your two Team Instructions stand out.

In tandem, they'll slow your tempo right down.

If you've had back to back promotions, your squad presumably isn't at the level of the rest of the league, so asking inferior players technically to take time on the ball may be risky.

[ajw10]

You've not linked to any thread so I can't see this dominance you speak of. You've not really shown anything to illustrate the issues you have or anything and without this it will be hard to offer advice because you lack any kind of detail in the post.

Well, what sort of information do you need?

[ajw10]

Before looking at the Roles and Duties, your two Team Instructions stand out.

In tandem, they'll slow your tempo right down.

If you've had back to back promotions, your squad presumably isn't at the level of the rest of the league, so asking inferior players technically to take time on the ball may be risky.

The technique and passing of my side is the 3rd highest on average in the league. Also I have to play possession football.

[Cleon]

My latest game. Charlton only had 3 proper attacks show up on my highlights (extended) all of which resulted in goals. One long range freekick and 2 corner goals. In isolation it looks like a proper smash and grab but there's been too many games like this recently for it to be a one off.

I don't think it does look like a smash and grab result at all. If you look at your shots the ratio on target isn't that impressive at all. Looking at the number of shots looks good but when you look closer only 7 on target, that's only 2 more than Charlton. However you had a lot off target and I think this could be down to movement in your formation.

Probably the most ridiculous of the lot this. This was my first bad result so at the time I was happy to write it off as just one of those things but now I'm not so sure. We created enough to comfortably win the game, as you can see Coventry didn't create a single CCC (I know that CCC's are buggy but I can't remember watching them create one). They score from a corner.

Ignore CCC's all together. IMO they should be removed from the game.

However how is this result ridiculous? All you've shown are stats but these don't actually show your chances were good and again you have an awful lot off target.

Can you upload the PKM for this match so I can watch it back and see a few things like, how Coventry scored their goals, see if you are over committing men and to see why you are so poor at getting chances on target.

This game come straight after the Coventry game. We absolutely dominated, creating chance of chance before Fleetwood score a goal out of nothing in the last ten minutes.

You keep throwing the word dominate about but I have yet to see anything other than possession that you actually dominated in this game.

In fact you lost out on shot percentage on target, you lost out on the aerial battle and you lost out on the physical front. So I'd like to know in what sense you actually think you dominated the game? If you mean in terms of possession that means nothing unless you are doing useful things with it.

[Cleon]

Well, what sort of information do you need?

Upload the PKM's for the games you mention in the other thread please.

[Cleon]

The technique and passing of my side is the 3rd highest on average in the league. Also I have to play possession football.

Means very little if composure, decisions or first touch is poor though.

[Letissier1980]

Hi cleon. When you say you lost on the physical front, I guess you mean the tackles. When it's a percentage figure how do you interprete this? The reason I ask is because I take it that it can be understood a couple of ways. 1. That the team is using stay on feet and having a high percentage due to only challenging when they know they can win the ball or 2. They are using hard tackling and making tackles here there and everywhere and winning them. Or I guess they are using normal tackling and just dominating? Oh and what did you think of the boxing result last night

[Cleon]

Hi cleon. When you say you lost on the physical front, I guess you mean the tackles. When it's a percentage figure how do you interprete this? The reason I ask is because I take it that it can be understood a couple of ways. 1. That the team is using stay on feet and having a high percentage due to only challenging when they know they can win the ball or 2. They are using hard tackling and making tackles here there and everywhere and winning them. Or I guess they are using normal tackling and just dominating? Oh and what did you think of the boxing result last night

Well it doesn't really matter how you interpret the stat imo because it still means they tackled better. Which means at some stage they got the ball from your player and if its high like the 96% stat then this is an issue because they seem to be getting the ball almost every time they make a tackle.

It seems to be an issue on almost all his screenshots. If it was in isolation I'd not be worried but because its a re-occurrence then it needs to be looked at.

Just guessing here but I think I'm right - Due to him playing retain possession and short passing he gets caught in possession a lot and this is why the oppositions tackling is so high. The PKM's will confirm/deny this though.

[Letissier1980]

Yes understood. Sorry to go off topic but if the team is out tacking you how would you approach this? The reason I ask is that when I go ahead in a game I notice the opposition come at me more. I believe they are going to attacking as they are more direct and attacking flanks and harder closing down and tackling. I tend to go to counter and pass into space as there are more gaps around but I believe due to composure or lack of it my players get beaten physically I believe this is logical so if the opposition team is upping the tempo I need to up the tempo too because if I lowered the tempo i would get out hassled so to speak. I hope I make sense. You can banish me to the stupid questions part if you feel

[Noel Gallagher]

Hey ajw10,

One thing I have picked up on, with a balanced philosophy players with an attack duty tend to play higher up and more aggressively than the rest. In addition, an attack duty across all philosophies, generally has runs from deep set to often. In your OP you have said you want your IF to run at the defence from a deep position but I don't see how this is possible from your current tactical set up.

In my opinion your IF will be making runs beyond the full back and he won't be running at the full back from a deep position. You are more likely to get this movement from playing him with a support duty.

Just my little contribution.

[Cleon]

Any update on those PKM's please ajw?

[SkillfulSpence]

Hey dude, look at WHERE the shots are coming from. You can do this in match analysis. If they are all in the penalty area and they are not going in then id be suprised. I think you may be having players take pot shots outside the area. To combat this, and if you have a great possession team, then simply check the 'work ball into the box' and your players will be less likely to shoot from outside the area.

I would recommend playing on extended highlights (im not sure if you are playing on key?) as these will show naff attempts at goal aswell as the key chances.

Let us know how you get on!

[RTHerringbone]

Still no sign of the opening poster coming back to provide any extra info? :confused:

[Cleon]

Still no sign of the opening poster coming back to provide any extra info? :confused:

I was really hoping he would too so I could explain a few things

[ajw10]

Yeah sorry, I've not played the save since, I'll upload them when I'm next on that save.

[Darrel]

What a pity, that it doesn't continue here. It would be a great benefit for other users to see, how to analyse and change a tactic accordingly.

[Cleon]

Still waiting for these.

[RTHerringbone]

Still waiting for these.

I want to see some examples of the lobs which keep getting reported by ajw10 in General Discussion.

I 100% do not experience this with any sort of regularity in my game, and am keen to understand what it looks like, and why it might happen.

Appears to relate also to the reported issue of multiple defenders closing single strikers, which again, I don't see.

[Cleon]

I want to see some examples of the lobs which keep getting reported by ajw10 in General Discussion.

I 100% do not experience this with any sort of regularity in my game, and am keen to understand what it looks like, and why it might happen.

Appears to relate also to the reported issue of multiple defenders closing single strikers, which again, I don't see.

Same here. I can't take people seriously when they can't back up what they say is happening in games though when asked to provide proof and they never follow through with it.

[RTHerringbone]

Same here. I can't take people seriously when they can't back up what they say is happening in games though when asked to provide proof and they never follow through with it.

I just want to see a few screenshots so I can try to understand what is going on.

ajw10 has done a decent job of posting stuff in the Bugs Forum and has posted two or three examples of lobs in particular, so it does sound as if he sees a few.

I want to understand the context of these lobs - is it all the time? Do they just stand out because lobs are a bit more special than some standard shots?

If you get lobbed say one game in five, is that bad? I can't find stats to show what the average should be.

[wwfan]

Nobody's yet pointed out the obvious. How will a short passing, retain possession strategy set up a lone front man who isn't being encouraged to drop into space. Looks to me like he's employing a DLF/A (screenshot isn't very clear though). Now, while his deepening will be OK and perfectly adequate for a direct passing system, a retaining possession strategy will still see him isolated.

In addition, both players who might be moving in support (the AML and MCL) are moving into the space he'll probably be occupying. This will result in a deficit of through balls and delayed crosses as the target point is so compressed. It will also result in a lot of snatched final third shots, either (a) taken as a last resort because the ball player has run out of options or (b) a hurried shot in no space. The tactic will do OK because it's defensive structure is sound, but will be forced to rely on one of the forward moving players doing something special to score, because it simply isn't creating decent final third space.

[ajw10]

I've not played the Barnet save since the new update was released. The lobbed goals have been happening both for and against me on my new save. I have provided plenty examples of these in the bugs forum. I believe they are due to CB's ignoring instructions and closing down CM's leaving loads of space in-behind to exploit the space and due to goalkeepers constantly rushing out of goal. I also do not appreciate being accused about never proving what happens in games. I provide plenty of proof (check out the bugs forum) just not in here as I've not played this particular save since. I'm very sorry at the inconvenience this must cause and I'll know next time to definitely play the save so I can upload some pkm's.

My striker is/was an AF/A not a DLF/A. I wasn't having issues creating chances, it was taking them.

[wwfan]

I've not played the Barnet save since the new update was released. The lobbed goals have been happening both for and against me on my new save. I have provided plenty examples of these in the bugs forum. I believe they are due to CB's ignoring instructions and closing down CM's leaving loads of space in-behind to exploit the space and due to goalkeepers constantly rushing out of goal. I also do not appreciate being accused about never proving what happens in games. I provide plenty of proof (check out the bugs forum) just not in here as I've not played this particular save since. I'm very sorry at the inconvenience this must cause and I'll know next time to definitely play the save so I can upload some pkm's.

My striker is/was an AF/A not a DLF/A. I wasn't having issues creating chances, it was taking them.

If he was an AF/A, the the problems I pointed to would be even worse. All the reasons for your struggling to convert chances are staring you in the face in this thread.

[Cleon]

I've not played the Barnet save since the new update was released. The lobbed goals have been happening both for and against me on my new save. I have provided plenty examples of these in the bugs forum. I believe they are due to CB's ignoring instructions and closing down CM's leaving loads of space in-behind to exploit the space and due to goalkeepers constantly rushing out of goal. I also do not appreciate being accused about never proving what happens in games. I provide plenty of proof (check out the bugs forum) just not in here as I've not played this particular save since. I'm very sorry at the inconvenience this must cause and I'll know next time to definitely play the save so I can upload some pkm's.

My striker is/was an AF/A not a DLF/A. I wasn't having issues creating chances, it was taking them.

You've played FM though and it takes 10 seconds to load the game and save the PKM

It's just annoying knowing I could have solved your issues

I know you've posted some bug reports but this issue is nothing to do with those and is caused by human error. So I wanted to help you see the mistakes and possibly fix the issue for you.

[MikeH84]

Ask for help, refuse to listen to advice. Brilliant.

Using a lone striker is it vital to have one of your CM set to attack, in order to prevent him being isolated? Or can it be done on support?

[mikcheck]

I've never liked how team plays when one of the MC is asking to roam. Lots of time i find that he is needed in that spot to keep possession and to be a passing option and he is much further but i definately like to have the front 3 roaming. I dont know if you guys also share the same opinion.

[wwfan]

Ask for help, refuse to listen to advice. Brilliant.

Using a lone striker is it vital to have one of your CM set to attack, in order to prevent him being isolated? Or can it be done on support?

A BBM can sort of do the job as well. But it's a big ask.

[mikcheck]

wwfan and in this system, an AML being and Adv Playmaker support and AMR an inside forward attack, in which side do you think BBM should be?

[wwfan]

wwfan and in this system, an AML being and Adv Playmaker support and AMR an inside forward attack, in which side do you think BBM should be?

On the left as the inside movement of an IF will take away his space.

[mikcheck]

Ok thanks!