The SI Sports Centre - DISCUSSION THREAD

[rvd313]

The higher creativity doesn't help as that makes him be more advanced at times as he's ignoring how he's been instrcuted to play and using his own brain, that's not what I want in my forward. I prefer a less selfish striker that's why I said it . A Treq has no defensive duties but I like mine to get stuck in if needed.

Ah, so lowering his creative freedom will make play less selfishly? My striker is a very intelligent and creative type, but as my assistant notes, he is also a fairly selfish player.

I agree with the strikers getting stuck in part - that is why I never play a 'pure' trequarista.

[yonko]

This type of formation should allow you bossing a midfield, but with short passing and no RFDs for CMs you probably nullify your own team's strenghts. Try more rigid philosophy, default or direct passing and less roaming + one BWM/S or B2B as CM (for me it works).

As I said, my problems and failure wasn't because of my offense not working. It was because of my defense. In fact, in all my replays of the same match vs Mallorca, my team controlled possession and had more chances. But my defense got killed from the little chances Mallorca was creating.

The 2 MCs are given roles that allow them to control the flow of the ball and they are always available for their teammates for easy passes. When I made one of them as DLP/support and the other one as AdvP/support (default settings, which gave him mixed RFD) the play wasn't all that much different, for better or worse.

The only problem was simply the way the 3 defenders in both versions act based on the ME. And I'm not sure how I can instruct them to act better with this ME.

The higher creativity doesn't help as that makes him be more advanced at times as he's ignoring how he's been instrcuted to play and using his own brain, that's not what I want in my forward. I prefer a less selfish striker that's why I said it . A Treq has no defensive duties but I like mine to get stuck in if needed.

I'm not sure I would agree with that one. I think that the PPM "comes deep" has a lot to do with how a STC involves himself in attacking movements. Messi is a player that has many various PPMs, some of which a fitting for one role, others for other role. I've tried using him in different roles in different formations, both my 3-4-3 experiments, my favorite 4-3-3/4-1-2-2-1 and the current 4-2-3-1 with MCs. He is simply amazing in the Trequartista role more than in any other role for a STC. As a DLF on Attack he is isolated and easily marked out of the game by one or two DCs.

I even have him set up as Trequartista with mixed RFD and he still comes back deep to collect the ball and run with it to score or set up a perfect through ball to the overrunning AMC or to cutting in AMR/L. Other times he makes a run off the ball past the defense to receive a through ball or over the top ball and score. For him specifically, there is no better role than as Trequartista, even though he may fit in other roles/positions.

I personally want my forward to play a dual role - goalscorer and provider, the former being the first priority. But I don't want him isolated like the DLF/Attack makes my STC. FYI, David Villa also plays best in the same role as Messi, more than in any other role (for example: Poacher, AdvF or DLF).

[Kamil-S]

As I said, my problems and failure wasn't because of my offense not working. It was because of my defense. In fact, in all my replays of the same match vs Mallorca, my team controlled possession and had more chances. But my defense got killed from the little chances Mallorca was creating.

The 2 MCs are given roles that allow them to control the flow of the ball and they are always available for their teammates for easy passes. When I made one of them as DLP/support and the other one as AdvP/support (default settings, which gave him mixed RFD) the play wasn't all that much different, for better or worse.

The only problem was simply the way the 3 defenders in both versions act based on the ME. And I'm not sure how I can instruct them to act better with this ME.

I'm not sure I would agree with that one. I think that the PPM "comes deep" has a lot to do with how a STC involves himself in attacking movements. Messi is a player that has many various PPMs, some of which a fitting for one role, others for other role. I've tried using him in different roles in different formations, both my 3-4-3 experiments, my favorite 4-3-3/4-1-2-2-1 and the current 4-2-3-1 with MCs. He is simply amazing in the Trequartista role more than in any other role for a STC. As a DLF on Attack he is isolated and easily marked out of the game by one or two DCs.

I even have him set up as Trequartista with mixed RFD and he still comes back deep to collect the ball and run with it to score or set up a perfect through ball to the overrunning AMC or to cutting in AMR/L. Other times he makes a run off the ball past the defense to receive a through ball or over the top ball and score. For him specifically, there is no better role than as Trequartista, even though he may fit in other roles/positions.

I personally want my forward to play a dual role - goalscorer and provider, the former being the first priority. But I don't want him isolated like the DLF/Attack makes my STC. FYI, David Villa also plays best in the same role as Messi, more than in any other role (for example: Poacher, AdvF or DLF).

Try moving AMC to DMC position with support role. I played W-M on my Barcelona's save and I feel like I'm taking candy from a baby - winning with no effort. Cleon's formation and roles are pretty good, the rest is an art of using shouts. I checked Tactical Theorems 2010 Appendix for some details about Beckenbauer's 3-5-2 and Chapman's "W-M" team's principles and I found some similarities:

- rigid philosophy;

- no short passing;

- no aggresive pressing;

- no roaming.

[yonko]

Try moving AMC to DMC position with support role. I played W-M on my Barcelona's save and I feel like I'm taking candy from a baby - winning with no effort. Cleon's formation and roles are pretty good, the rest is an art of using shouts. I checked Tactical Theorems 2010 Appendix for some details about Beckenbauer's 3-5-2 and Chapman's "W-M" team's principles and I found some similarities:

- rigid philosophy;

- no short passing;

- no aggresive pressing;

- no roaming.

How was your defense when you used the W-M with Barcelona?

So you suggest I try this:

DMCR = anchor man, defend

DMCL = defensive midfielder, defend (support?)

MCR = DLP, support

MCL = advanced playmaker, support (attack?)

Here is my problem with this. Xavi is only competent as DM - he will require re-training. Keita is also just competent at DM. The only real DMs are Busquets and Mascherano.

I would still have concerns on how to make the back 3 defend better.

[Kamil-S]

How was your defense when you used the W-M with Barcelona?

So you suggest I try this:

DMCR = anchor man, defend

DMCL = defensive midfielder, defend (support?)

MCR = DLP, support

MCL = advanced playmaker, support (attack?)

Here is my problem with this. Xavi is only competent as DM - he will require re-training. Keita is also just competent at DM. The only real DMs are Busquets and Mascherano.

I would still have concerns on how to make the back 3 defend better.

I bought Yann M'Villa and create anchor man, DM/support duo behind Box2box (Iniesta) and DLP/defend (Xavi). Barcelona doesn't have hard-working team players on wings (AML/AMR) so I left the idea of DC, DC, DC setting. RB, DC, LB works better even without pure defender player types as fullbacks (FB/D or FB/S when opponent is parking a bus).

[glowny]

Hi. Cleon, can i ask what is your training schedule for ganso?

[Cleon]

Read the thread and you'd know

[rvd313]

The higher creativity doesn't help as that makes him be more advanced at times as he's ignoring how he's been instrcuted to play and using his own brain, that's not what I want in my forward. I prefer a less selfish striker that's why I said it . A Treq has no defensive duties but I like mine to get stuck in if needed.

I think I solved the problem by simply setting HUB to yes.

I tried setting him up as a DLF with lower creative freedom, but I couldn't notice any discernable difference - it was only when I used his previous settings (max creative freedom, no forward runs) with HUB ticked that I saw real improvement. I'm very happy with how my striker is now performing, and some of his movement and link-up play is a joy to watch at times. As a consequence of all this, my inside forwards are now on fire, scoring goals at an alarming rate, with copious assists from my striker.

[Cleon]

I think I solved the problem by simply setting HUB to yes.

I tried setting him up as a DLF with lower creative freedom, but I couldn't notice any discernable difference - it was only when I used his previous settings (max creative freedom, no forward runs) with HUB ticked that I saw real improvement. I'm very happy with how my striker is now performing, and some of his movement and link-up play is a joy to watch at times. As a consequence of all this, my inside forwards are now on fire, scoring goals at an alarming rate, with copious assists from my striker.

My inside forwards are always the top scorer too, almost a goal a game over a full season

Glad you sorted it

[yonko]

I bought Yann M'Villa and create anchor man, DM/support duo behind Box2box (Iniesta) and DLP/defend (Xavi). Barcelona doesn't have hard-working team players on wings (AML/AMR) so I left the idea of DC, DC, DC setting. RB, DC, LB works better even without pure defender player types as fullbacks (FB/D or FB/S when opponent is parking a bus).

Anchor man behind DLP and DM behind Box2Box?

I'm in my 2nd season with Barca and I too have bought M'Villa. I also have Thiago Silva and Neymar. Muniesa & Deulofeu promoted. Keita, Maxwell and Afellay are gone.

BTW, Pedro is a hard-working team player on the wings for Barca.

[Kamil-S]

Anchor man behind DLP and DM behind Box2Box?

I'm in my 2nd season with Barca and I too have bought M'Villa. I also have Thiago Silva and Neymar. Muniesa & Deulofeu promoted. Keita, Maxwell and Afellay are gone.

BTW, Pedro is a hard-working team player on the wings for Barca.

If your DLP is on defend role then place Anchor Man behind B2B. Generally I play defend role behind support and support role behind attack when using box midfield but for W-M Cleon's setup is good. The only midfield difference is left CM role - I replaced BWM/support with B2B/support (to play Iniesta or Fabregas here). The rest is about partnership - right CM with AMR (DLP/defend with IF/support), left CM with AML (B2B/support with IF/attack) and Messi as DLP/attack playing in line with AMR/AML.

For me players like Pedro (with his low stamina) or even Modric (with his good teamwork, workrate and stamina) can't cover whole flank as they lack some defensive attributes. They can press but against quick counters it's not enough. 3xDC setup with only wide players at AMR/AML could be possible with additional Dani Alves on left wing

[Cleon]

I'll get around to updating the thread at some point over the coming week

[MilanoBaros]

I was wondering, when playing a 442, would playing narrow and through the middle help in the midfield battle against formations that have 3 man midfield?

[Cleon]

I was wondering, when playing a 442, would playing narrow and through the middle help in the midfield battle against formations that have 3 man midfield?

How would that help? You'd still be out numbered no matter how narrow you played. But not only that, you'd be playing against the biggest advanatge of the 442 and that is the wings. That's the key to a good 442 especially against 433/451 as that's the areas you have more space and time in. To beat a 3 man midfield you should play around them.

[MilanoBaros]

What if I played narrow and gave the wingers the 'hug touchline' command?

[Cleon]

What if I played narrow and gave the wingers the 'hug touchline' command?

You'd still be out numbered in midfield lol. 2 vs 3 no matter which way.

[MilanoBaros]

Dang it haha.

So playing a narrow width with a 442 is not so good? In the TC I try to play defensive and counter attack and it chooses a quite a narrow width.

I tend to play with weaker teams.

[dz47]

I think playing narrow is not so much of a problem (Cleon might correct me though!), as it will leave space on the flanks for your wingers to exploit (assuming they are good enough to do so). Playing down the middle is not such a good idea though IMO, as you don’t want to focus your passing where the other team has the 3v2 advantage. I’d rather play narrow and exploit flanks in 442V451/433.

[Cleon]

Dang it haha.

So playing a narrow width with a 442 is not so good? In the TC I try to play defensive and counter attack and it chooses a quite a narrow width.

I tend to play with weaker teams.

It does work, just not as a general rule when you are out numbered in the middle for the reasons explained below.

Well if you play narrow and are already a man short in the middle, all you are doing is making the space a lot more compact meaning 5 players all in simliar areas and only 2 of them are yours. If you do that, then you are making it easier for the opposition to cut off your supply to your wingers. How? Well most of the supply needed for the wingers would come from your central players or should. It also means they are likely to be closed down easier (your MC's) and not find that little bit of space to join in attacks.

[Cleon]

I'm going to be using another tactic soon, so would people be interested in seeing how its created from the beginning and discuss why I set roles and watch games and then change it? Basically it would be the evolution of a tactic and see how its created from start to finish so to speak.

[R0ca]

Yes please would give a great platform for us to discuss ideas how we all set up our sides

[Cleon]

Yes please would give a great platform for us to discuss ideas how we all set up our sides

Ok no worries.

So the general outline of the next few updates is;

Finish the W-M dicussion about players and their roles

Create a new formation and highlight and discuss in depth how it was created and why

See how the formation evolves during a season

Do a general outline for all the popular formations and tell you how to counter them

That's the general plan for now

[grimness]

I hope next tactic will include front three like WM does. I really like playing true wingers upfront and spent some time playing with settings of AMC player. Trying out "un enganche y tres puntas" system made only with TC.

[dz47]

Sounds great cleon. Looking forward to reading all that!

[MilanoBaros]

Ahhh so frustrating.

No matter what I change, most of the oppositions goals are from the striker running right through my CB's with no real pressure.

In increase closing down, they still find a way. I decrease it, still no change. Change the width, nothing. Increase my CM's closing down or decrease. STILL

[Cleon]

Ahhh so frustrating.

No matter what I change, most of the oppositions goals are from the striker running right through my CB's with no real pressure.

In increase closing down, they still find a way. I decrease it, still no change. Change the width, nothing. Increase my CM's closing down or decrease. STILL

Using what system?

Do you use zonal marking or man marking?

Do you use tight marking?

Do you use opposition instructions?

[Marsupian]

Ahhh so frustrating.

No matter what I change, most of the oppositions goals are from the striker running right through my CB's with no real pressure.

In increase closing down, they still find a way. I decrease it, still no change. Change the width, nothing. Increase my CM's closing down or decrease. STILL

I say hard tackling and hope for the best! Probably not the best advice I've ever given...

Basically there can be three problems:

1. Your defender makes a move on the attacker and the attacker dodges it and skips past him (closing down too high or tackling too high or closing down too high and tackling too low or just too aggressive)

2. The defender doesn't put enough pressure on the attacker and lets him turn after which he dribbles past him (closing down too low, not aggressive or attacking enough, not marking tight enough)

3. The attacker outplayed your defender due to high skill or nimbleness or your defender playing badly or not being good enough (skill gap between defender and attacker, attacker having a moment of brilliance, defender having a laps in concentration, morale of the defender is low or morale of attacker is high)

Maybe there could be something else going on but you can probably narrow it down to those, it's often difficult to see in the ME what actually happened so maybe you have to try a few different solutions.

If you answer Cleon's questions that could give us a better idea of what the problem is in this case.

[Cleon]

I say hard tackling and hope for the best! Probably not the best advice I've ever given...

Basically there can be three problems:

1. Your defender makes a move on the attacker and the attacker dodges it and skips past him (closing down too high or tackling too high or closing down too high and tackling too low or just too aggressive)

2. The defender doesn't put enough pressure on the attacker and lets him turn after which he dribbles past him (closing down too low, not aggressive or attacking enough, not marking tight enough)

3. The attacker outplayed your defender due to high skill or nimbleness or your defender playing badly or not being good enough (skill gap between defender and attacker, attacker having a moment of brilliance, defender having a laps in concentration, morale of the defender is low or morale of attacker is high)

Maybe there could be something else going on but you can probably narrow it down to those, it's often difficult to see in the ME what actually happened so maybe you have to try a few different solutions.

If you answer Cleon's questions that could give us a better idea of what the problem is in this case.

You're spot on with the 3 different sceneraio's. I touched upon that in the analysis section of the thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it like that

[MilanoBaros]

Using what system?

Do you use zonal marking or man marking?

Do you use tight marking?

Do you use opposition instructions?

Flat 442 that's what I always use. And I don't want to change it.

Would like to play a 442 like Newcastle do.

I've switched the marking around. Tried both zonal and man for my CB's. Didn't appear to have a differing outcome.

Not using tight marking.

Closing down is set to pretty low on most of my players.

Playing a narrow 442 passing down both flanks. High defensive line and a quick tempo.

Direct passing and counter attacking.

THis is from a tactic that worked quite a few FM's ago I just want to get something similar to that one because I really liked it.

I've never used opposition instructions. I'm hoping to get by without them.

THanks Marsupian I'll look into those.

It could quite possibly be the third point because I'm a team trying to avoid relegation.

[Marsupian]

Flat 442 that's what I always use. And I don't want to change it.

Would like to play a 442 like Newcastle do.

I've switched the marking around. Tried both zonal and man for my CB's. Didn't appear to have a differing outcome.

Not using tight marking.

Closing down is set to pretty low on most of my players.

Playing a narrow 442 passing down both flanks. High defensive line and a quick tempo.

Direct passing and counter attacking.

THis is from a tactic that worked quite a few FM's ago I just want to get something similar to that one because I really liked it.

I've never used opposition instructions. I'm hoping to get by without them.

THanks Marsupian I'll look into those.

It could quite possibly be the third point because I'm a team trying to avoid relegation.

Good luck with the relegation battle! You might want to try using tight marking for your DC's. If you defend with a reasonably deep defensive line you don't have to worry about players beating your DC's on pace (as there is no room behind them to do so) so no reason to mark loose and give them space.

[Rashidi]

Jesus how many years has this formation benn around lol. Nice to see some familiar faces here

[yonko]

Cleon,

What is the difference between zonal marking and (non-specific) man-marking in FM?

I've always used tight zonal marking and I've never had defensive problems. But that may be due to the fact that I mostly play with Barcelona or another top team and can afford top defenders.

Also, which marking system requires the most from defenders and is the most demanding on the whole team? Any comments on using a mixed marking system?

[MilanoBaros]

Well the hard tackling seems to have made a huge difference. I do little closing down on all except one midfielder and one striker.

The 2 CB's are on normal tackling, rest of team is on hard.

I'm going to trial tight marking and see how that works.

I still concede but they aren't getting all the space in the world now.

I find my team comes back stronger in the second half after soaking up a lot of pressure in the first.

Thanks guys it's made a difference.

Oh hey rashid long time no see. Still making tactics? I remember one of yours, RYBlitz.

[Cleon]

Cleon,

What is the difference between zonal marking and (non-specific) man-marking in FM?

I've always used tight zonal marking and I've never had defensive problems. But that may be due to the fact that I mostly play with Barcelona or another top team and can afford top defenders.

Also, which marking system requires the most from defenders and is the most demanding on the whole team? Any comments on using a mixed marking system?

Zonal marking is the most demanding as it requires the more attributes of your players. But non-specific man marking isn't that different from zonal marking though. I'm not sure why it's still called man marking as that is quite misleading. It's basically a more rigid form of zonal marking unless you use specific man marking.

From my own experiences mixed marking works quite well especially defensivley. It's a good way of eliminating a specific threat from certain player's especially creative ones.

Flat 442 that's what I always use. And I don't want to change it.

Would like to play a 442 like Newcastle do.

I've switched the marking around. Tried both zonal and man for my CB's. Didn't appear to have a differing outcome.

Not using tight marking.

Closing down is set to pretty low on most of my players.

Playing a narrow 442 passing down both flanks. High defensive line and a quick tempo.

Direct passing and counter attacking.

THis is from a tactic that worked quite a few FM's ago I just want to get something similar to that one because I really liked it.

I've never used opposition instructions. I'm hoping to get by without them.

THanks Marsupian I'll look into those.

It could quite possibly be the third point because I'm a team trying to avoid relegation.

Do you use 3d highlights? As that will show you exactly how the player is been beat. Have you viewed any of the clips on the analysis tab of missed tackles, interceptions? Again another great way to know exactly what is wrong. Do you have any screenshots of the tackling stats for random games where this has happened?

It sounds to me like you might be too high and a little 'loose' in terms of marking. Try tight marking to see if that helps. Also with high d-line and fast tempo ideally you'd want to apply a lot of pressure on the opposition. As you are favourites for relegation it could be a case of you not having the players to play a high d-line. What are the attributes like for your defenders?

[Cleon]

Jesus how many years has this formation benn around lol. Nice to see some familiar faces here

Nice to see an old face around

[MilanoBaros]

Zonal marking is the most demanding as it requires the more attributes of your players. But non-specific man marking isn't that different from zonal marking though. I'm not sure why it's still called man marking as that is quite misleading. It's basically a more rigid form of zonal marking unless you use specific man marking.

From my own experiences mixed marking works quite well especially defensivley. It's a good way of eliminating a specific threat from certain player's especially creative ones.

Do you use 3d highlights? As that will show you exactly how the player is been beat. Have you viewed any of the clips on the analysis tab of missed tackles, interceptions? Again another great way to know exactly what is wrong. Do you have any screenshots of the tackling stats for random games where this has happened?

It sounds to me like you might be too high and a little 'loose' in terms of marking. Try tight marking to see if that helps. Also with high d-line and fast tempo ideally you'd want to apply a lot of pressure on the opposition. As you are favourites for relegation it could be a case of you not having the players to play a high d-line. What are the attributes like for your defenders?

Hmm so one CB man marking and one zonal? Might give that a try.

If I'm getting found out for a high dline and I just need faster defenders which would be fine by me.

I attached some screens to see if there is something glaringly obvious. The tackles and interceptions don't seem to bad since I'm relegation fodder.

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[MilanoBaros]

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[Cleon]

You don't always need fast defenders, you just need ones who are good at reading the game for the level you play. From the screenshot of the player profile you've provided, I'm assuming he is the main culprit? He has low anticipation/decisions meaning he can't make the right judgement on where the ball and the attacker are going to go. So depending on how you view the highlights it can look like the player just lets the opposition run through him. I'm guessing he games a lot of bad calls and gets his movement wrong a lot of the time. Add to that, that his concentration is only 9 meaning he can't stay focused for a full 90 minutes without switching off. Concentration is vital in defence. Do the rest of the defence have low concentration?

Your d-line is probably way to high for the defensive players you have and the fact you play with very little closing down doesn't help the matter. As soon as your team loses the ball, the defensive line will adopt the approach you have told them to and either drop deeper or push up. You may want to take the qualities of the opposition’s attackers into consideration before each match before deciding on your defensive line approach, as quicker players can get in behind an advanced line, and deeper lines can be exposed by direct play and a big target man up front.

I also see you're using hard tackling, have you always used this (if not then ignore the next bit)? Are you sure this isn't the reason why he's been skinned constant? You miss a lot of tackles especially in the midfield according to the screenshot you posted. I talked about this is the analysis section of my thread. Hard tackling doesn't always work and can lead to giving the ball away needless to the opposition and giving them more space.

Ahh just seen the right back screenshot. He's slightly better but again lacks any real defensive qualities, low marking and tackling and very low anticipation. The key for you I believe is the midfield, as defensivley you seem poor they need to contribute more on the defensive responsibilities to help cover over the cracks.

One last thing, tempo could also be a part of why, because when you do get the ball you're playing way to fast for how the 2 defenders you've shown can play. They don't have the mental stats to play fast and this could be causing some defensive issues when you lose possession and creating holes in your tactic.

I think a few of your team settings are quite contradictive in some aspects and causing quite a bit of confusion. You're set up to be very attacking, yet down closedown enough to justify it while taking a hard tackling approach. Can you see why there would be some elements of confusion?

Looking at the attributes of your players is also a good way to determine what type of football they can play. Whether you want to play defensive or attacking football the attributes are very important to determine if they can play this way. I think this is an area that is overlooked by most folks and they just tend to pick how they want to play off the top of their head. Regardless of if they have the right players available to play this way. This is why so many people struggle to find consistency in my opinion because they don’t have the correct players. So let’s take a closer look at the attributes and see what you should look for.

Defensive

To play a defensive type of game it is important that your team is able to keep the shape at all times. This will make you hard to break down and mean you are well organised. When playing defensive if you don’t keep the shape it will mean you have holes in your tactics and the opposition will exploit them. Plus if you don’t keep shame then the whole philosophy is flawed to begin with. The players must be alert for the full 90 minutes and be on-the ball so to speak. Any lapse in concentration can be very costly especially late in games. It also requires you getting men back behind the ball. Remember also that someone defensive minded will be less ambitious with their passing.

Technical Attributes

Tackling – This is important for all players who will be back behind the ball.

Marking – You’ll want the player’s to be able to pick up their man and stick with him. One slip up by not marking properly and you could start to see gaps appear in your shape.

Heading – Because you’re defensive the chances are a lot of balls over the top and crosses from the wings will be a big issue. So you’ll want the defenders to be able to cope with these. Heading across the field in general will be a big bonus but it’s vital for the defence to be able to deal with aerial threats.

Mental Attributes

To be able to stay focused and keep the team shape players need to be mentally aware of problems and potential problems. So they must have good mental attributes to excel under pressure and reduce the amount of mistakes they make.

Anticipation – Player’s need to be aware of danger before it happens

Composure – The calmer the player is on the ball the less hurried his next action will be. You want people who won’t panic on the ball and give possession away cheaply. Especially when in your own half

Concentration – It’s no use having players who might switch off at any moment. You need them focused at all times.

Positioning – You want them positioned well enough to force pressure if it’s needed. This also helps the players keep the shape of the formation.

Teamwork – As the team will be playing as a defensive unit then it’s important all players are on the same page and working together.

Workrate – Players need to have a good work ethic as they’ll have lots of running about to do. You need the players to want to work hard for the result.

Physical Attributes

Acceleration – You need people to be able to be fast over short distances to cover other players. Or for them to pick up and loose balls quickly. It will also help with getting across to mark a player or to close him down.

Balance - A player who falls over easily and isn’t on his feet is out of the game.

Jumping – This will help in defensive situations. Remember this is needed for the heading attribute and works hand in hand with that.

Strength – Having a high attribute for this will ensure he can hold his own against the opposition should they get close to each other. You don’t want your players to get out muscled and knocked off the ball.

Stamina – You’ll want players who won’t get tired after 20 minutes of a game. The higher the attribute the more they can cope with high level physical activities.

Some might argue that other attributes should be on the list and that could possibly be the case. But for me these are the important ones for playing defensively. A few of you would have probably put decisions on the list and I'd agree to a certain extent. But for me playing defensively is more about getting the players to follow my own instructions I've set rather. So for this reason I omitted decisions from the list.

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A Normal Approach

A normal approach is neutral and doesn’t concentrate on one aspect more than the other. It will provide the right balance between defence and attack. Meaning the players are less likely to take risks defensively or attacking.

Technical Attributes

First Touch – You want the players to be comfortable when receiving the ball. This prevents risks if they can control the ball at first time of asking.

Passing – It’s important that the players don’t take risks and lose the ball needlessly.

Tackling - The midfielders will need decent tackling so they can win the ball back and start attacks early.

Mental Attributes

Anticipation – This attribute is important for all most everything. So it’s no surprise I think its need here again. Much for the same reasons already mentioned further up the guide.

Aggression – Having a high attribute for this will make the player more likely to get involved in an incident and get stuck in.

Composure – The calmer the player is on the ball the less hurried his next action will be. You want people who won’t panic on the ball and give possession away cheaply.

Decisions – Making the correct decision is important for any good football player. As you are playing a more neutral game its important they make the correct decision.

Teamwork – It probably feels like I am repeating a lot of attributes and that would be the right assessment. But a lot of them do tie into all aspects of the game as hopefully we are beginning to demonstrate throughout the guide. Teamwork is important in that you want the team as a unit. So anything that requires you to work as a team and not individuals will always require a high teamwork attribute throughout the team.

Physical Attributes

Stamina – This is the only attribute I’d put for this part for the same reasons as the defensive one.

Playing a normal game means teams won’t excel at one particular area of the game. They should try and be competitive in all areas equally and not be ‘really good’ at anything.

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Attacking

Attacking football is all about player movement and how well you distribute the ball. You look to put pressure on the opposition and commit players forward. Then when the time is right you’ll look to carve open the defence with intelligent play and skill. While at the same time been aware of how open you are for the counter attack.

Technical Attributes

Dribbling – You want players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet and who can commit defenders. This will help create space and openings.

First Touch – Is vital ingredient for any player playing attacking football. Players who lack good first touch will miss good opportunities for running at defences or important passes.

Passing – You want people in the side who can distribute the ball well to take advantage of situation in the game. Poor distribution will lead to missed opportunities.

Technique - Technique is the aesthetic quality of a player’s technical game – how refined they appear to be with the ball. A player with high technique will be more likely to pull off a tricky pass or a cross-field ball with greater ease than someone less technically able. This in turn affects a number of technical attributes – poorer technique will let a player down.

Mental Attributes

Anticipation – You’ll want the players to anticipate the movement of others around them as well as the type of ball they might be about to receive.

Composure – This will help with how comfy a person is on the ball in hurried situations. So when under pressure from the opposition will still attempt their ‘original decision’.

Creativity – For cutting open those defences you’ll want people who are creative. Plus it will help it spotting an opening or a different type of pass.

Flair – This goes hand in hand with creativity so can’t have one without the other.

Decisions – A player should be able to make the correct decision if more than one option is available. As you’ll be attacking then making the right decision is important and will be the difference between a goal and defending a counter attack.

Off The Ball – Movement is the key to all attacking formations and play. If an attacking player has a low rating then he’ll be less likely to find a little bit of space and make the right movement to beat his marker before he receives the goal. Sometimes it can be the difference that gives you that extra yard.

Teamwork – Again this is needed to play as a unit. But if you have a few special talents in your side that might be better playing as individuals then this isn’t as important. But very few teams have that kind of luxury.

Physical Attributes

Pace – I like to play fast paced attacking football so for me pace is essential. Especially for player’s who like to drive forward and beat their man. It’s important for me that they can reach the top speed.

Acceleration – This will provide that little edge in gaining an extra yard on the opposition. This and pace are very important.

Agility – Provides the player the ability to turn fast if needed. Ideally all attacking players should be agile when playing an attacking game. As they’ll be receiving the ball a lot and sometimes might find themselves with it when they wasn’t expecting it.

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Counter Attacking

Counter attacking is a speciality and requires you to exploit space and get the ball forward fast and early. If you fail to get the ball forward quick then you’ll have wasted the opportunity.

Technical Attributes

Crossing – Whether it is from deep or the by-line, it’s a weapon that you can use to devastating effects. An early cross to an attacker can instantly put the opposition onto the back foot.

Dribbling – To take advantage of any space that appears you’ll want players who are able to bring the ball forward.

Finishing – To make the most of any move you’ll want to put it into the back of the net.

Long shots – Players sometimes find themselves with a good opportunity to shoot from distance, especially when counter attacking.

Technique – For the same reasons I mentioned in the attacking one.

Mental Attributes

Aggression – Players should want to be involved in everything. This can also help with winning the ball back early and starting quick counter attacks.

Bravery – You don’t want players who bottle it when trying to win the ball back early do you?

Off The Ball - Movement is the key to all attacking formations and play. If an attacking player has a low rating then he’ll be less likely to find a little bit of space and make the right movement to beat his marker before he receives the goal. Sometimes it can be the difference that gives you that extra yard.

Work rate - Players will need to work hard both in defence and attacking situations. They will be up and down the field all day long, so should be prepared to put in the hard graft.

Physical Attributes

Pace – I like to play fast paced attacking football so for me pace is essential. Especially for player’s who like to drive forward and beat their man. It’s important for me that they can reach the top speed. Plus the players will be back and forth all match long.

Acceleration – This will provide that little edge in gaining an extra yard on the opposition. This and pace are very important.

Stamina – As the players will be up and down a lot, they need to be fit.

Strength – Having a high attribute for this will ensure he can hold his own against the opposition should they get close to each other. You don’t want your players to get out muscled and knocked off the ball. It will also help you win the ball back.

[MilanoBaros]

The two players I posted are my CB's.

I only turned hard tackling on recently after reading marsupians post.

It seemed to work but I think I tinker too much and I open holes elsewhere. It was more solid through the middle but they were then going around my full backs and getting in crosses and scoring from them. And I just played a game where they opened me up all over the shop.

If I'm playing a high d line what players should have a higher closing down, all of them or just the midfield and strikers?

I'm not sure what changes I need to make in the midfield. Should they man mark or zonal mark? Should their settings be on little for TTB, Cross ball, Long shots Forward runs and Run with ball? Since I have a 2 man midfield and in the Portuguese league I come up against a 3 man midfield fairly often.

So should they be looking to get rid of the ball to the flanks early?

[Cleon]

The two players I posted are my CB's.

I only turned hard tackling on recently after reading marsupians post.

It seemed to work but I think I tinker too much and I open holes elsewhere. It was more solid through the middle but they were then going around my full backs and getting in crosses and scoring from them. And I just played a game where they opened me up all over the shop.

If I'm playing a high d line what players should have a higher closing down, all of them or just the midfield and strikers?

I'm not sure what changes I need to make in the midfield. Should they man mark or zonal mark? Should their settings be on little for TTB, Cross ball, Long shots Forward runs and Run with ball? Since I have a 2 man midfield and in the Portuguese league I come up against a 3 man midfield fairly often.

So should they be looking to get rid of the ball to the flanks early?

Any chance you can show me the average position heat map from a couple of games please? I'll have a better idea then

[MilanoBaros]

OKay just finishing taking a pounding from Porto then I will do it.

[Cleon]

OKay just finishing taking a pounding from Porto then I will do it.

No worries

[MilanoBaros]

Do you need individual heat maps or team?

[Cleon]

Team please

[MilanoBaros]

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THere's one I'll upload another shortly.

[MilanoBaros]

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In this game I had my left back sent off, I replaced one of the strikers with another LB but then he got injured so I had to put a CB at LB.

[Cleon]

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THere's one I'll upload another shortly.

Do you see how much space there is to expoit between defence and midfield? The space between the MR and SC is quite a big gap. The left side is kind of fine but the right side is bad because the MC at that side is also deeper. Meaning that the gap is quite extreme at times. Also meaning that it can be hard for him to see the ball at times I'm guessing? Balls from the right side of play atleast.

Now if you went and looked at Belenenses heat map and visually placed it over yours you'd see exactly how the exploited the space as it should be quite visible. I can't make out the player numbers on the left, but who is the player on the left in between midfield and defence?

[MilanoBaros]

That was a substitute player, he came on for the Left MC.

So I need to bring the mentalities closer together to solve the gap or are there other settings to solve this?

Oh my mentalities aren't far apart either, only one striker is one attacking. The rest of the team are in the normal area except one CB being on the first notch of Defensive.

Here is the opposition same match.

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They look fairly spaced in areas as well.

[Cleon]

That was a substitute player, he came on for the Left MC.

So I need to bring the mentalities closer together to solve the gap or are there other settings to solve this?

Here is the opposition same match.

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They played 4231?

Because they had you on the back foot they seem quite attacking in terms of mentality. As you play a 442 the wing play is vital to making it work. But because your wingers were set in their own half most of the game they didn't exploit the massive space between the oppositions wingers and fullback. You should have perhaps looked to focus play down those areas more and tried bringing them into the game more.

Look at there attacking players and instantly judging by your own heat maps it was 4v4 in terms of defence vs attack. It looks like the left MC also joined in attack from time to time.

Also take a note of their central midfielders positions in comparison with your own, there almost mirroring you. And because they were pushed up high, when you did lose possession they were better placed to start attacks instantly. It looks like you had a lot of pressure to handle with in terms of attacking movement from the opposition.

442 is a great formation but it also requires a lot of attention if you want it to be successful, you need to adapt it to exploit the weakness of the formation you play against. You have to do this as the 442 has a lot of flaws especially when playing against 5 man midfields.

I notice you use classic tactics, what changes do you do during a game? Is there any reason you don't use the TC? The TC is much more user friendly in terms of quick in game tweaking with the use of shouts.

[MilanoBaros]

They played a 41221, at least that's how they started.

I have it set to focus passing down both flanks. What else should I do to bring the wingers into it more? If I make my MC's do little in terms of TTB, Crossing, Forward runs? Would they then look to get it out to the wingers quicker?

That's why I was hoping to see you play a flat 442 with a team that struggles instead of being favorites so I can see how you handle being the weaker team.

And pushing up my defensive line, doesn't that get my team to sit higher up the pitch? Or close the gap between midfield and defense? But we are sitting back a lot and their team is sitting higher up the pitch. Does counter attack affect this?

I use classic tactics because I prefer to use them. And all the options with TC on player positions doesn't comfort me in the slightest.